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Kyle Williams is clearly a bad fit for Rex D...

eball

By eball
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Freddie's Dead Hall of Famer

Freddie's Dead

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If you've seen Rex's playbook, it's largely split between single and 2-gap responsibility for the DL.

 

I agreed that coaching was the primary reason for the drop off in sacks. Let's not conflate points here.

 

It's also worh noting that they mixed things up from the get go; the very first 3rd down of the game was a 5-man pressure package.

 

The point I've always made is that Kyle isn't a poor fit for Rex's D; he's a poor fit for certain roles in Rex's D. As the 3T (or simply the "T" in Rex's playbook), he's an ideal fit.

Where can we see Rex's playbook?

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Nihilarian Veteran

Nihilarian

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Wonder how many times you will twist your argument to fit a narrative?

 

How many times do you have to hear Rex & other players saying that last year the biggest hit to the defense occurred when Kyle went down?

I haven't twisted a single thing. I've been complaining about Rex Ryan's defense since week two and that crapfest of a defense Ryan fielded in that Patriots debacle. Plus, I've been saying the same thing from week six last year after the Bengals game and still believe the two-gap scheme is one of the biggest reasons for that lack of sacks and QB pressures in 2015.

 

You don't have to believe me. http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense

 

Yes, losing Kyle Williams hurt the defensive pass rush to a degree. What it didn't do all by itself was kill the pass rush into going from first in the NFL to 31st. Let's look at the games in which Kyle Williams played in last year, okay?

Indy, 3 sacks. Patriots 2 sacks. Dolphins 2 sacks. Giants 1 sack. Tenn 2 sacks. Cincy 0 sacks All with Kyle Williams playing. Six games, 10 sacks. Now extrapolate that out to 12 games = 20 sacks, 18 games = 30 sacks.

 

What is it with you guys? I can also post a BN article in which the Bills coaches talk about Manny Lawson getting a single lone hurry on Dallas QB Kellen Moore all game and they were happy about it because he was able to do that while Mario was dropped into pass coverage. The Bills coaches created that mess of a defense we all saw last year and not the players.

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Over 29 years of fanhood Hall of Famer

Over 29 years of fanhood

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You're half right here.

 

Rex has a healthy dose of both 1-gap and 2-gap in his system.

 

IMO, it was more confusion about what his play-to-play role was last year than a mismatched scheme.

 

He 2-gapped at times yesterday and was fine--it's about what he's doing 80% of the time that matters IMO.

I'd rather see he and Dareus almost always 1 gapping - it plays to their strength and what has made them probowl caliber players.

 

Love this development... (Assuming it is recent)

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GG Hall of Famer

GG

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I haven't twisted a single thing. I've been complaining about Rex Ryan's defense since week two and that crapfest of a defense Ryan fielded in that Patriots debacle. Plus, I've been saying the same thing from week six last year after the Bengals game and still believe the two-gap scheme is one of the biggest reasons for that lack of sacks and QB pressures in 2015.

 

You don't have to believe me. http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense

 

Yes, losing Kyle Williams hurt the defensive pass rush to a degree. What it didn't do all by itself was kill the pass rush into going from first in the NFL to 31st. Let's look at the games in which Kyle Williams played in last year, okay?

Indy, 3 sacks. Patriots 2 sacks. Dolphins 2 sacks. Giants 1 sack. Tenn 2 sacks. Cincy 0 sacks All with Kyle Williams playing. Six games, 10 sacks. Now extrapolate that out to 12 games = 20 sacks, 18 games = 30 sacks.

 

What is it with you guys? I can also post a BN article in which the Bills coaches talk about Manny Lawson getting a single lone hurry on Dallas QB Kellen Moore all game and they were happy about it because he was able to do that while Mario was dropped into pass coverage. The Bills coaches created that mess of a defense we all saw last year and not the players.

 

You've been spouting the same 2-gap crap ad nauseam despite evidence to the contrary. Repeating it for the 1,000th time won't make it anymore true.

 

I'll take someone's word who's looked at actual game film (Erik at Cover 1) over the constant dribble of half-truths. As for the sack numbers dropping this was also dissected after the first Pats* game. Rex got caught flat-footed because Belichick & McDaniel rolled out an offense that they designed in the second half of prior year's first game, where Bills didn't get a single drive stop.

 

One half - four drives, 300+ yards, four scores. That's in one half of the great Schwartz defense that blew a close game wide open.

 

That was the blueprint, and Bills couldn't adjust last year because they were confused about their roles, Kyle was gone, and Mario was spreading cancer.

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KDIGGZ Hall of Famer

KDIGGZ

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They said Kyle was the one getting everyone fired up this week at practice and he probably felt he had to "put up or shut up" and in true leader fashion he went out and proved himself as the leader of the D

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Nihilarian Veteran

Nihilarian

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You've been spouting the same 2-gap crap ad nauseam despite evidence to the contrary. Repeating it for the 1,000th time won't make it anymore true.

 

I'll take someone's word who's looked at actual game film (Erik at Cover 1) over the constant dribble of half-truths. As for the sack numbers dropping this was also dissected after the first Pats* game. Rex got caught flat-footed because Belichick & McDaniel rolled out an offense that they designed in the second half of prior year's first game, where Bills didn't get a single drive stop.

 

One half - four drives, 300+ yards, four scores. That's in one half of the great Schwartz defense that blew a close game wide open.

 

That was the blueprint, and Bills couldn't adjust last year because they were confused about their roles, Kyle was gone, and Mario was spreading cancer.

You obviously didn't click the link I provided that has an article written by an ex-NFL player who reviewed the Bengals game film and stated Ryan ran that two-gap slightly more than any other scheme. I have no idea who Erik Turner is or if he ever played in the NFL or was an NFL coach. However, Stephen White was an NFL player who watched the actual game film to break down the Bengals game and that is where I garnered some of my info.

 

I also just refuted Turner's idea of claiming that the lack of sacks was mainly because of the Kyle Williams injury as the lack of sacks and QB pressure was happening in games long before Williams was injured. Couldn't adjust? Ryan then managed great pressure on Brady in that second game in week 11 without either Mario Williams or Kyle Williams and did the same against Fitzpatrick in weeks 10 and 17.

 

I had read in the BN that Marcell Dareus, Mario Williams, and even Kyle Williams were all talking about what they were being asked to do in Ryan's scheme and weren't happy about it. However, they all did what was asked of them and some better than others. Clearly, this is was something different from just rushing the passer and different from what they were asked to do in Schwartz's defense which...was....rush...the....passer!

 

 

I don't attempt to belittle you for your beliefs as I all will try to do is refute them with what I believe is the truth. The plain and simple truth is that Rex Ryan does have a 3-4 two-gap scheme in his playbook and does run that scheme in games all the time. He just ran it from the start of the Arizona game and once the Bills got the lead the defense started going to the one-gap and rushing the passer more. Ryan's defense isn't always the same and he is always switching things up with different fronts, looks, sets to confuse the opponent.

 

Click the link and read it http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense

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GG Hall of Famer

GG

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You obviously didn't click the link I provided that has an article written by an ex-NFL player who reviewed the Bengals game film and stated Ryan ran that two-gap slightly more than any other scheme. I have no idea who Erik Turner is or if he ever played in the NFL or was an NFL coach. However, Stephen White was an NFL player who watched the actual game film to break down the Bengals game and that is where I garnered some of my info.

 

I also just refuted Turner's idea of claiming that the lack of sacks was mainly because of the Kyle Williams injury as the lack of sacks and QB pressure was happening in games long before Williams was injured. Couldn't adjust? Ryan then managed great pressure on Brady in that second game in week 11 without either Mario Williams or Kyle Williams and did the same against Fitzpatrick in weeks 10 and 17.

 

I had read in the BN that Marcell Dareus, Mario Williams, and even Kyle Williams were all talking about what they were being asked to do in Ryan's scheme and weren't happy about it. However, they all did what was asked of them and some better than others. Clearly, this is was something different from just rushing the passer and different from what they were asked to do in Schwartz's defense which...was....rush...the....passer!

 

 

I don't attempt to belittle you for your beliefs as I all will try to do is refute them with what I believe is the truth. The plain and simple truth is that Rex Ryan does have a 3-4 two-gap scheme in his playbook and does run that scheme in games all the time. He just ran it from the start of the Arizona game and once the Bills got the lead the defense started going to the one-gap and rushing the passer more. Ryan's defense isn't always the same and he is always switching things up with different fronts, looks, sets to confuse the opponent.

 

Click the link and read it http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense

 

So you're using the game where Kyle got hurt as your proof that the scheme didn't work?

And are totally discounting the data that shows that the main complaints were unfounded and that Mario & Marcel were not held back from the pass rush?

Or that the DL grumblings came out early in the preseason and only Mario complained during the regular season?

Or that you haven't accounted at all for the offensive game plans which totally neutered a pass rush?

Or that you're bringing up Rex's fine game plan for the 2nd Pats* game that got blown out of the water because Mario blew his coverage of the RB flare out?

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GG Hall of Famer

GG

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Jesus. It's that hard to admit that Rex sucked last year?

 

Losing one player on defense resulted in that far a drop in the defense?

 

The defense has looked good in two games and down right awful in the other. Let's hope we see some consistency going forward.

 

Nobody is defending Rex's defense last year. I am hammering a broken record false narrative though.

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K-9 Hall of Famer

K-9

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Jesus. It's that hard to admit that Rex sucked last year?

Losing one player on defense resulted in that far a drop in the defense?

The defense has looked good in two games and down right awful in the other. Let's hope we see some consistency going forward.

They lost two players on defense, one of whom was their best defensive player the year before.

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Nihilarian Veteran

Nihilarian

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Jesus. It's that hard to admit that Rex sucked last year?

 

Losing one player on defense resulted in that far a drop in the defense?

 

The defense has looked good in two games and down right awful in the other. Let's hope we see some consistency going forward.

Some Bills fans just refuse to see the truth in the issue for the lack of pass rush of last season and want blame it on everything but the scheme and coaches. I don't know why either.

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GG Hall of Famer

GG

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Some Bills fans just refuse to see the truth in the issue for the lack of pass rush of last season and want blame it on everything but the scheme and coaches. I don't know why either.

 

Bills' defensive failures ran deeper than a simple infatuation with declining sack numbers. And those failures have been explained with very detailed analysis of the full season's worth of games, not just press snippets from August or October.

 

But keep up your crusade

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Nihilarian Veteran

Nihilarian

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So you're using the game where Kyle got hurt as your proof that the scheme didn't work?

 

You still didn't read the article from a known ex NFL player who actually watch the game film and reported on it and not some guy who thinks he knows whats happening on the field and talks about it on his blog!

 

Since you refuse to read it, allow me to post a segement or two.

 

" It's much worse than just Ryan having his best pass rushers dropping into coverage too much rather than actually, yanno, pass rushing.

 

One edge guy, either Williams or Hughes, generally gets to stand up and either set the edge/pass rush on the edge or drop into coverage when they line up in a base 3-4. The other edge rusher often has to line up on the offensive tackle rather than being on an edge. That's pretty much the opposite of an ideal situation for most highly skilled pass rushers."

"Even having Mario Williams, a human cheat code with his ridiculous combination of size, strength and athletic ability, two-gapping an offensive tackle is a pretty dumb thing to do on a regular basis because it's obvious he doesn't like doing it! I greatly admire Williams' game, but he's just not that guy who wants to be lined up head-up and wrestle with a 300-pounder all game."

"I say all that to point out that Rex Ryan put his best pass rushers in a sub-optimal position to rush the passer for most of the game. The payoff was that his secondary still couldn't consistently force Dalton to go through more than his first couple reads before finding someone open, many times wide open."

I just don't get how you could read those statements from an ex NFL DE and come away thinking it's the injuries and not the scheme or how the players are being utilized the majority of the time.

And are totally discounting the data that shows that the main complaints were unfounded and that Mario & Marcel were not held back from the pass rush?

 

Exactly which data supports this, please link the quote... nevermind.

 

Or that the DL grumblings came out early in the preseason and only Mario complained during the regular season?

 

What difference does this make as it was the Bills best defensive player who was first grumbling about how he was being utilized in Ryan's scheme. Which pretty much supports my arguement.

 

Or that you haven't accounted at all for the offensive game plans which totally neutered a pass rush?

 

There is no question that the offenses game plan did have an effect on games and for specific reasons which basically supports my arguement that it was Ryan's scheme and not just the injuries.

 

Ryan seems intent on trying to scheme his opponents rather than just his letting his players play.

 

Or that you're bringing up Rex's fine game plan for the 2nd Pats* game that got blown out of the water because Mario blew his coverage of the RB flare out?

Rex did manage to get pressure on Brady in that 2nd Patriots game, all game. And to the tune of around 50% of Brady's pass dropbacks so much so that Tommy boy was literally screaming at his O-linemen on the sidelines! So, the pass rush worked when the coaches wanted it to work.

 

Anyway, after this post, I'm done attempting to convince you of anything as you just seem to want to refute what I say rather than acknowledge what an actual ex-NFL player is saying or what's actually happening on the field.

 

Peace out.

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Beef Jerky Veteran

Beef Jerky

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He is a pro bowler when used in a one-gap 3-4 like he was yesterday and he is a bad fit in a 3-4 two-gap like he was mostly used in last year.

 

There was a real reason why the team fell on it's face in sacks last year and it had nothing to do with the players.

 

He was one of the highest rated players in our defense last year before the injuries.

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K-9 Hall of Famer

K-9

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Who are we talking about?

Kyle Williams and Mario Williams, our best defensive player the previous season.

 

Not having Aaron Williams hurt as well given how Ryan plays his safeties. He needed to establish a rapport with Graham. Looks like we are starting to flatten out that curve.

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GG Hall of Famer

GG

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Nobody is?

Not really. The difference is, some self proclaimed experts attribute it to the jingoistic excuse that Rex didn't let his pass rushers free reign, while others are looking at a bunch of little things that Rex did wrong, along with injuries that in combination, led the D to a huge drop off. The biggest fault was not getting the players to fully buy into his system.

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Buffalo Barbarian Hall of Famer

Buffalo Barbarian

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...it was obvious yesterday.

 

Amazing what being healthy does for a player.

 

Enjoy Pats*** week, fans.

 

Kyle can play in any defense, although standing him up 5 yrds behind the line negated his quickness and strength off the line rendering him useless as a pass rusher.

I'm not a jersey guy, but if I were to pick a current Bill, Kyle would be my guy. Besides, Williams seems appropriate.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Best 5th round pick in Bills history...

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

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Over 29 years of fanhood Hall of Famer

Over 29 years of fanhood

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@buffalobillsPR

A scoring change from Sunday...

@buffalobills DT Kyle Williams has now been credited with a full sack at the 8:04 mark of the first quarter.

 

With that change, Kyle is now tied with Sherman White (37.0 sacks) for eighth place all-time in @buffalobills history.

next sack and a half matches him with ol 56 who was wearing Spider-Man compression shirts way before they were cool Edited by over 20 years of fanhood
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Best Player Available All Pro

Best Player Available

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@salsports

Kyle Williams was on the field for 64/82 snaps. Many of them he was the only DL. And he was maybe the best player on the field. Crazy.

I,don't know if it's "crazy" I find Kyle year in and year out ( injury year aside) as always one of the if not the best player out there. His effort is unreal. He was pretty vocal last Sunday besides his play. I remember I think it was New England at home last year. He came out of the tunnel with crutches and wearing brown Carhart's a great look for him!!

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