OVER THE MIDDLE. theory on where it went

[maddenboy]

Sorry for shouting, but many of us know that around here, OVER THE MIDDLE has to be all caps.

 

Hat tip to Promo, who was first with it, far as I know.

 

But when we didnt see it in week 1, and barely barely saw it in week 2, a theory started forming in my mind. Especially when other teams go OTM all the time.

 

Maybe our defense is just easy to throw to OTM. Maybe when tyrod sees better defenses he just reverts into his shell/comfort zone.

 

To be clear, this is a dig at both Rexy and Tyrod. We thought Tyrod had improved, but maybe not.

 

Thoughts? (I am not a guy who really gets deep into X O football, but lots of you are).

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

I thought this was a post about BBQ sauce.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Sorry for shouting, but many of us know that around here, OVER THE MIDDLE has to be all caps.

 

Hat tip to Promo, who was first with it, far as I know.

 

But when we didnt see it in week 1, and barely barely saw it in week 2, a theory started forming in my mind. Especially when other teams go OTM all the time.

 

Maybe our defense is just easy to throw to OTM. Maybe when tyrod sees better defenses he just reverts into his shell/comfort zone.

 

To be clear, this is a dig at both Rexy and Tyrod. We thought Tyrod had improved, but maybe not.

 

Thoughts? (I am not a guy who really gets deep into X O football, but lots of you are).

 

It's one thing to step up in the pocket and go through your reads and throw over the middle when you're wearing a red jersey and you can't be hit.

It's another thing to step up in the pocket and go through your reads and throw at the faster pace of a real game and with 600 lbs of angry defender ready to smash you into the turf

 

Preseason has two legit purposes: 1) giving the starters on offense and defense a chance to work together and get in sync in a "live" situation 2) giving the coaches a chance to evaluate players in a live situation. Rex essentially refused to make use of the preseason except to evaluate players. Last year, he ran too fast and physical a camp and too many people got injured. This year, he went to the other extreme.

 

My reading of what I've seen is that Week 1, neither the RBs or Tyrod trusted the OL. It appeared they had reason. Week 2, the OL appeared to play much better. It also doesn't help an offense get into rhythm when they start the game spending 13 of 15 minutes on the sideline and on from there.

 

Week 3, we'll see.

 

I had thought (and never learned if I was right) that Roman scripted the first 10-12 plays. He had plays he wanted to run to diagnose how the defense was responding and to set up later plays, and he didn't like to adjust, he wanted to run those plays. That's fine if you're running 12 plays in the first drive, but it's not fine if you're struggling and need 4 drives through the whole first half to go through the script. The script has to go and the coach has to have a Plan B to try to take what the D is giving him.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Captain_Quint]

Yeah....bbq sauce here, too.

[MAJBobby]

He will get better with a simplified, steamlined faster offense.

 

The bloated playbook make the reads to complicated causing Taylor to miss alot.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

He will get better with a simplified, steamlined faster offense.

 

The bloated playbook make the reads to complicated causing Taylor to miss alot.

 

If this is straight, I hope you're right.

If this is sar chasm you made it too deep for me

[MAJBobby]

 

If this is straight, I hope you're right.

If this is sar chasm you made it too deep for me

I have been told I am to negative with an agenda.

 

So looking at other side as well. And posting the possible positive outcomes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I have been told I am to negative with an agenda.

 

So looking at other side as well. And posting the possible positive outcomes.

 

Then I hope you are right! You see, with everything that's gone on, Hapless can still be Hopeful

Edited September 22, 2016 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Maury Ballstein]

It's only a thing in preseason. Once the bullets start flying, it's too scary to throw over the middle.

 

Trent 2.0.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's only a thing in preseason. Once the bullets start flying, it's too scary to throw over the middle.

 

Trent 2.0.

 

Great occasions, Ryan L Billz and I say the same thing on TBD:

"It's one thing to step up in the pocket and go through your reads and throw over the middle when you're wearing a red jersey and you can't be hit.

It's another thing to step up in the pocket and go through your reads and throw at the faster pace of a real game and with 600 lbs of angry defender ready to smash you into the turf"

[r00tabaga]

He will get better with a simplified, steamlined faster offense.

 

The bloated playbook make the reads to complicated causing Taylor to miss alot.

Do you really think it's as easy as that?

[BarleyNY]

Sorry for shouting, but many of us know that around here, OVER THE MIDDLE has to be all caps.

 

Hat tip to Promo, who was first with it, far as I know.

 

But when we didnt see it in week 1, and barely barely saw it in week 2, a theory started forming in my mind. Especially when other teams go OTM all the time.

 

Maybe our defense is just easy to throw to OTM. Maybe when tyrod sees better defenses he just reverts into his shell/comfort zone.

 

To be clear, this is a dig at both Rexy and Tyrod. We thought Tyrod had improved, but maybe not.

 

Thoughts? (I am not a guy who really gets deep into X O football, but lots of you are).

It's difficult for any short QB to throw OTM. Brees is a big exception, but his accuracy and timing are impeccable. Even he still needs a very strong interior line to open passing windows and prevent interior push from the defense. It takes a lot of practice for receivers and QBs to get the timing down too.

 

A secondary issue might be TE usage. I promised myself that I'd keep an eye on the TEs to see if they were blocking and/or chipping a lot in passing downs. Honesty, I haven't done as much of that as I planned because I haven't been able to bring myself to rewatch the first two games, but from what I did notice keeping a TE in to block on passing plays seemed pretty common.

 

The coaches might not be asking Taylor to throw a lot of OTM passes because they don't think he can be effective doing that and they might need a TE to stay in to block because of RT play.

[MAJBobby]

Do you really think it's as easy as that?

No i dont, but trying the positive stuff because i have a reputation as angry with an agenda

[zow2]

You know a QB will be special when the league gets a full season of film on them and the QB still excels. Well, here we are...teams can now game-plan the heck out of Tyrod Taylor. Teams know what to take away and what to "give" TT to see if he can take advantage. He escaped trouble a few times vs. Baltimore and inexplicably overthrew guys or threw short..and missed reads. We were all hoping that was an aberration. I still have hope that he can be the guy. He throws a terrific deep ball, but let's see the short-medium passes improve.

 

On that note, it's will be interesting to see how Wentz, Garoppolo, Dak Prescot, Siemian and a few others develop once D-coordinators around the league get film on these guys and really start taking away the things they are comfortable with..

[Maury Ballstein]

No i dont, but trying the positive stuff because i have a reputation as angry with an agenda

Don't let the man change you. Let it fly.

[Prickly Pete]

I can't wait to see Tyrod without the shackles. This guy is gonna tear it up, and prove to the world just how great he is.

 

I expect to see him go OVER THE MIDDLE, UNDER THE MIDDLE, OFF TO THE SIDE, and OVER THE TOP!

 

A special, special player.

Edited September 22, 2016 by HoF Watkins

[KDIGGZ]

Tyrod is listed at 6'1" but I doubt he's even 6 foot. He can't see over the middle. I'm 6'1" and I couldn't from under center in high school most of the time. The trick was to get outside the pocket. From there you have a better view. Get Tyrod on the edge with some roll outs and watch how dangerous he can be

[MAJBobby]

After 5 years of NFL Coaching Tyrod is still the same guy that has come out of College. Just like EJ has not improved in any flaw he had in college, yet he is special, dangerous ETC.

 

Weaknesses

Does not possess adequate height and too many of his passes are knocked down at the line. Sloppy footwork prevents him from stepping into throws making him an erratic passer. Locks onto receivers and often telegraphs his throws. Struggles breaking down coverage and makes too many ill-advised throws.

 

http://www.nfl.com/c...ylor?id=2495240

 

Another

 

Negatives:

 

While Taylor’s accuracy and pocket poise have really developed over his time at Virginia Tech they are still not on the level of a quality NFL starter in my opinion. Taylor’s size also hinders him as a QB because he will struggle to see over his offensive line in the NFL if he ever becomes a starter, and he doesn’t have a great feel for the pocket to move within it to find throwing lanes. His accuracy was much better this season but he will still miss throws that he should make pretty routinely. His accuracy is just not very consistent on short/intermediate levels. His anticipation isn’t very good either and I have rarely seen him “throw a receiver open” and he doesn’t go through his progressions very well. Instead he will regularly drop his eyes and look at the rush to try to escape the pocket and improvise. That really hurts him because in the NFL he won’t be able to scramble after looking at his first or maybe second read and have a lot of success. Defenses are too fast and he will be bottled up very quickly if he tries to do that. His pocket poise isn’t very good either because while he has definitely learned to stay in the pocket more and wait for routes to develop, etc. his first instinct is still to run when he is in trouble, not to step up to find a throwing lane and deliver the ball downfield. His instincts tell him to scramble, hold onto the ball longer than he should and to try to either get outside the pocket to improvise or to run and pick up yardage with his feet.

 

https://tommeltonsco...couting-report/

[Prickly Pete]

 

https://tommeltonsco...couting-report/

 

You're so negative. And I thought this was a safe space? I'm going to contact the Moderator. This kind of talk promotes dissension, and we are trying to all come together. Sometimes censorship is good.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's difficult for any short QB to throw OTM. Brees is a big exception, but his accuracy and timing are impeccable. Even he still needs a very strong interior line to open passing windows and prevent interior push from the defense. It takes a lot of practice for receivers and QBs to get the timing down too.

 

A secondary issue might be TE usage. I promised myself that I'd keep an eye on the TEs to see if they were blocking and/or chipping a lot in passing downs. Honesty, I haven't done as much of that as I planned because I haven't been able to bring myself to rewatch the first two games, but from what I did notice keeping a TE in to block on passing plays seemed pretty common.

 

The coaches might not be asking Taylor to throw a lot of OTM passes because they don't think he can be effective doing that and they might need a TE to stay in to block because of RT play.

 

Sammy has had the passing lanes at times, and has not seen them or been unwilling to step up into them.

 

It seemed fairly common for Roman to keep Clay in to chip or block, then have him release and cross shallow as the outlet guy. Problem: that was a useless outlet for Tyrod because he'll roll out to the weak side and then there are too many big bodies in the way for Taylor to hit Clay.

[WotAGuy]

No i dont, but trying the positive stuff because i have a reputation as angry with an agenda

 

This approach seems to be refashioning your reputation. Good work.

[BillsPride12]

Yeah....bbq sauce here, too.

 

That stuff was so good!

[BillsFan130]

Has to be a mixture of the coaches telling Tyrod not to turn it over and Tyrod being a bit gun shy. It needs to change if wants to make is as a QB in this league

[3rdand12]

Tyrod is listed at 6'1" but I doubt he's even 6 foot. He can't see over the middle. I'm 6'1" and I couldn't from under center in high school most of the time. The trick was to get outside the pocket. From there you have a better view. Get Tyrod on the edge with some roll outs and watch how dangerous he can be

I thought we had decided he should step up and into the pocket, like Brees does, to be successful ?

 

This approach seems to be refashioning your reputation. Good work.

Guy is willing to take his lumps and still bring his game.

we all dial in our game with time and exp.

 

He is one of the Family for sure.

After 5 years of NFL Coaching Tyrod is still the same guy that has come out of College. Just like EJ has not improved in any flaw he had in college, yet he is special, dangerous ETC.

 

Weaknesses

Does not possess adequate height and too many of his passes are knocked down at the line. Sloppy footwork prevents him from stepping into throws making him an erratic passer. Locks onto receivers and often telegraphs his throws. Struggles breaking down coverage and makes too many ill-advised throws.

 

http://www.nfl.com/c...ylor?id=2495240

 

Another

 

Negatives:

 

While Taylor’s accuracy and pocket poise have really developed over his time at Virginia Tech they are still not on the level of a quality NFL starter in my opinion. Taylor’s size also hinders him as a QB because he will struggle to see over his offensive line in the NFL if he ever becomes a starter, and he doesn’t have a great feel for the pocket to move within it to find throwing lanes. His accuracy was much better this season but he will still miss throws that he should make pretty routinely. His accuracy is just not very consistent on short/intermediate levels. His anticipation isn’t very good either and I have rarely seen him “throw a receiver open” and he doesn’t go through his progressions very well. Instead he will regularly drop his eyes and look at the rush to try to escape the pocket and improvise. That really hurts him because in the NFL he won’t be able to scramble after looking at his first or maybe second read and have a lot of success. Defenses are too fast and he will be bottled up very quickly if he tries to do that. His pocket poise isn’t very good either because while he has definitely learned to stay in the pocket more and wait for routes to develop, etc. his first instinct is still to run when he is in trouble, not to step up to find a throwing lane and deliver the ball downfield. His instincts tell him to scramble, hold onto the ball longer than he should and to try to either get outside the pocket to improvise or to run and pick up yardage with his feet.

 

https://tommeltonsco...couting-report/

This is a tough read. But thanks for bringing it.

 

One of the things he has done well is protect the ball.

One of the others is when a play breaks down he keeps looking downfield.

He has one hell of an arm.

He is a gamer for sure.

 

My issue is still can he grow? Two games into this season have me suspect.

 

Maybe the new OC scenery will give him a refresh.

Lordy lets hope so

[CommonCents]

Brees is small but he is a different guy inside the pocket, replay some of his games and watch him. He stands on his toes and tilts his head in a very distinct manner to improve his vision. Did a quick google and here are some Saints fans discussing this exact thing a few years back.

 

http://saintsreport.com/forums/f2/drew-brees-question-310903/index3.html#.V-RVXFT3anM

[Malazan]

I thought this was a post about BBQ sauce.

 

What exactly leads you to believe that it is not?

[3rdand12]

Brees is small but he is a different guy inside the pocket, replay some of his games and watch him. He stands on his toes and tilts his head in a very distinct manner to improve his vision. Did a quick google and here are some Saints fans discussing this exact thing a few years back.

 

http://saintsreport.com/forums/f2/drew-brees-question-310903/index3.html#.V-RVXFT3anM

 

This was going to be my next question actually. How is it that Brees has been so successful? Beside his guys opening the throwing lanes?

thanks Common

 

What exactly leads you to believe that it is not?

because i have yet to drool. We get talking about food an Pavlovian thing happens to me every time

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Brees is small but he is a different guy inside the pocket, replay some of his games and watch him. He stands on his toes and tilts his head in a very distinct manner to improve his vision. Did a quick google and here are some Saints fans discussing this exact thing a few years back.

 

http://saintsreport.com/forums/f2/drew-brees-question-310903/index3.html#.V-RVXFT3anM

 

Brees has a great feel for pressure in the pocket and is A-1 at making guys miss with just a little movement - a step forward at the right time, a duck or a twist. I swear his equipment guys must put baggies over his hands and spray the back of his jersey with teflon or something.

 

Taylor right now is a bit over-reactive to pressure. He is getting some lanes opened for him, he either doesn't see them or he doesn't trust them.

I thought we had decided he should step up and into the pocket, like Brees does, to be successful ?

 

He pretty much has to do this for long term NFL success.

[3rdand12]

 

Brees has a great feel for pressure in the pocket and is A-1 at making guys miss with just a little movement - a step forward at the right time, a duck or a twist. I swear his equipment guys must put baggies over his hands and spray the back of his jersey with teflon or something.

 

Taylor right now is a bit over-reactive to pressure. He is getting some lanes opened for him, he either doesn't see them or he doesn't trust them.

 

He pretty much has to do this for long term NFL success.

It is the subtle movement in the pocket that makes the great ones great.

 

But live experience, snes of pressure, timing the the receivers and keen peripheral vision is needed. Sounds simple enough?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It is the subtle movement in the pocket that makes the great ones great.

 

But live experience, snes of pressure, timing the the receivers and keen peripheral vision is needed. Sounds simple enough?

 

Well, certainly the great shorter QBs great. Kurt Warner had this also, and Rodgers (who is no beanpole himself).

[3rdand12]

 

Well, certainly the great shorter QBs great. Kurt Warner had this also, and Rodgers (who is no beanpole himself).

Rodgers really is great to watch in that skillset.

[BillnutinHouston]

Tyrod is listed at 6'1" but I doubt he's even 6 foot. He can't see over the middle. I'm 6'1" and I couldn't from under center in high school most of the time. The trick was to get outside the pocket. From there you have a better view. Get Tyrod on the edge with some roll outs and watch how dangerous he can be

I think this is the answer. Anthony Lynn even mentioned his height when responding to media questions about "OTM". Hopefully Lynn uses that understanding of the problem to find an answer for it.

[26TrapDraw]

I can't wait to see Tyrod without the shackles. This guy is gonna tear it up, and prove to the world just how great he is.

 

I expect to see him go OVER THE MIDDLE, UNDER THE MIDDLE, OFF TO THE SIDE, and OVER THE TOP!

 

A special, special player.

Not when he has a number 1 receiver with a giant vagina like Watkins has. If Tyrod doesn't start reading the whole field they are done. The saving grace maybe that noone knows the kind of game Lynn will call. There are no tendencies for defensive coaches to exploit on film yet. That being said look for the Bills to continue to spew their incompetent cat vomit all over the field on Sunday.

Too negative? Yeah I don't care F.U

[Marty McFly]

I thought we had decided he should step up and into the pocket, like Brees does, to be successful ?

I was hopin for more of that this season. Then he steps up the middle vs the Jets and gets speared through a table by 3 Jets!! Oh man, that was not good for his psyche and development! They killed him! Im thinkin TT responds well to the adversity and if they can get into formation with AT LEAST 10 seconds on the play clock maybe jus maybe he can read the defense and audible when he needs to. Too many plays I see them line up with only 5-2 seconds left on the play clock and just snap it.

 

Not when he has a number 1 receiver with a giant vagina like Watkins has. If Tyrod doesn't start reading the whole field they are done. The saving grace maybe that noone knows the kind of game Lynn will call. There are no tendencies for defensive coaches to exploit on film yet. That being said look for the Bills to continue to spew their incompetent cat vomit all over the field on Sunday.

Too negative? Yeah I don't care F.U

LOL This comment really made me laugh. Thanks breh. needed this laugh to get through my next shift. As long as Watkins can keep his beaver closed on Sundays I think well be ok. Anyone that sees your avatar is an injured Brady knows your on the neg side of thought process rite now so meh! I think the coolest thing bout Sun is NO ONE on the Cards really knows what to expect. Lynn is a variable yet to be solved. They solved Romans chess game. This one might be different.

 

I think this is the answer. Anthony Lynn even mentioned his height when responding to media questions about "OTM". Hopefully Lynn uses that understanding of the problem to find an answer for it.

Breh. Doing media interviews is tricky. You gotta be sharp, charismatic, confident in your knowledge and each comment should be well thought out. I have 3 jobs. The 3rd requires me to do a lot of PR, video/audio media, and interviews. Im good at it, real good at it but, I see a lot of smart people just completely !@#$ it up. Anthony Lynn Aced that presser with flying colors. I hope it translates on the field.

[3rdand12]

I was hopin for more of that this season. Then he steps up the middle vs the Jets and gets speared through a table by 3 Jets!! Oh man, that was not good for his psyche and development! They killed him! Im thinkin TT responds well to the adversity and if they can get into formation with AT LEAST 10 seconds on the play clock maybe jus maybe he can read the defense and audible when he needs to. Too many plays I see them line up with only 5-2 seconds left on the play clock and just snap it.

 

LOL This comment really made me laugh. Thanks breh. needed this laugh to get through my next shift. As long as Watkins can keep his beaver closed on Sundays I think well be ok. Anyone that sees your avatar is an injured Brady knows your on the neg side of thought process rite now so meh! I think the coolest thing bout Sun is NO ONE on the Cards really knows what to expect. Lynn is a variable yet to be solved. They solved Romans chess game. This one might be different.

 

Breh. Doing media interviews is tricky. You gotta be sharp, charismatic, confident in your knowledge and each comment should be well thought out. I have 3 jobs. The 3rd requires me to do a lot of PR, video/audio media, and interviews. Im good at it, real good at it but, I see a lot of smart people just completely !@#$ it up. Anthony Lynn Aced that presser with flying colors. I hope it translates on the field.

Dig your posts Marty.

and I like your attitude !

 

Go Bills !

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Tyrod is listed at 6'1" but I doubt he's even 6 foot. He can't see over the middle. I'm 6'1" and I couldn't from under center in high school most of the time. The trick was to get outside the pocket. From there you have a better view. Get Tyrod on the edge with some roll outs and watch how dangerous he can be

That's why the defenses keep him in the pocket.

[Marty McFly]

Dig your posts Marty.

and I like your attitude !

 

Go Bills !

rite back at ya breh! Go Bills!

That's why the defenses keep him in the pocket.

If Drew Brees can do it, then Taylor should be learning how, its only his 2nd year as a starter so as long as he shakes off the ring rust or whatever his mind is going through thats making him miss the throws he was making last year and improve on the middle of the field stuff he should be starting to develop those pocket throws we need him to make.

[3rdand12]

That's why the defenses keep him in the pocket.

Is that why Roman kept him in there too ?

David Lee better get his sheet together and quick. Because if TT really cannot see the field, put EJ in and then bring TT in for the option.

Can TT catch ?

[maddenboy]

rite back at ya breh! Go Bills!

If Drew Brees can do it, then Taylor should be learning how, its only his 2nd year as a starter so as long as he shakes off the ring rust or whatever his mind is going through thats making him miss the throws he was making last year and improve on the middle of the field stuff he should be starting to develop those pocket throws we need him to make.

 

Didnt watch every play of each game, but i gotta ask: Is it that TT needs to improve OTM, or is it that he needs to attempt?

 

Is he over/under throwing too much OTM? Is he pulling an EJ and waiting until the receiver is obviously wide open before throwing?