YoloinOhio Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) I feel like this is said every season by the fans and media about the Bills and other teams, but what does it even mean, and is it true? Does it mean that they are all in for the short term, thinking they are just a piece or two away from the playoffs? Does it mean the GM and HC are fired after the season if they don't make the playoffs and/or have a winning season? I think it's possible they are thinking they are all in for this year with not as much focus on the long term. Specifically because of the playoff drought. But I think it's just as possible they are more focused on long-term building of the team. Whaley just signed an extension, it's only the coach's 2nd year, and their core players at QB, WR, LT, CB, DT, LB and DE are very young. I never bought that they were in "win-now" mode the last few years simply because it wasn't realistic. They didn't have the most important position, QB. I still think it's kind of a minor rebuild with a long term vision (nothing like the Browns are doing, but a smaller scale version of that -- considering the Bills were a better team to start off), beginning last year. Without being a fly on the wall at OBD I'm just guessing, but not sure it's a "playoffs or everyone is gone" atmosphere or culture from what I can tell. It seems like the fans as a whole want it that way, I just don't know if that is indeed the case. Thoughts? Edited May 21, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I don't think you see the money thrown around at middling stars like McCoy and Clay if the Bills didn't think they were a few bounces from making a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) They sure want everyone to think they are... But how could they be? Drafting injured players... Settling for a glorified game-manager at QB.... Refusing to acquire a big-threat @ WR.... Hiring Rob Ryan!.... These are just a few of the potential disasters waiting to undermine any chance of us winning the AFCE. -Which, by the way, is what we should be focusing on! Can you honestlly say that this team is being engineered to crush Massacheatsus? Your response may be the answer to the question posed in this thread. Edited May 21, 2016 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 This is the 3rd year of "Win Now" mode. You just don't realize it because they haven't been winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I feel like this is said every season by the fans and media about the Bills and other teams, but what does it even mean, and is it true? Does it mean that they are all in for the short term, thinking they are just a piece or two away from the playoffs? Does it mean the GM and HC are fired after the season if they don't make the playoffs and/or have a winning season? I think it's possible they are thinking they are all in for this year with not as much focus on the long term. Specifically because of the playoff drought. But I think it's just as possible they are more focused on long-term building of the team. Whaley just signed an extension, it's only the coach's 2nd year, and their core players at QB, WR, LT, CB, DT, LB and DE are very young. I never bought that they were in "win-now" mode the last few years simply because it wasn't realistic. They didn't have the most important position, QB. I still think it's kind of a minor rebuild with a long term vision (nothing like the Browns are doing, but a smaller scale version of that -- considering the Bills were a better team to start off), beginning last year. Without being a fly on the wall at OBD I'm just guessing, but not sure it's a "playoffs or everyone is gone" atmosphere or culture from what I can tell. It seems like the fans as a whole want it that way, I just don't know if that is indeed the case. Thoughts? I detect no true sense of urgency there. Rex has a fat contract, and Ralph's trash is still running the ream. Team would have to really tank to wake Pegs up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) To me at least, they don't really want to make it seem like they are. With the additions of McCoy and clay, they were just as important to the development of whatever QB they ended up with and scheme fit. What does win-now mode even mean anyway... To me it doesn't mean "we want to win." Everyone wants to win unless you are tanking. Tanking in the NFL is pretty rare. To me win-now is like if you don't reach a certain line in the sand based on the team currently assembled - be it a SB, SB win, playoffs, playoff win - then the GM and/or coach is gone or the team undergoes a drastic change. This usually occurs - from my observation- when a team feels they have a certain window and it's usually based on the QB situation. For example I would expect teams like the Giants, Chargers, Cardinals, Saints, etc to be in this mode and thinking more short term in their FA and draft investments. I assume others may see it differently. I just see that term thrown around so much and I kind of wonder if anyone really knows if this teams feels the same way. Edited May 21, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 What does win-now mode even mean anyway. Sacrificing future resources for immediate results. Trading up (exchanging multiple future picks for one pick) and spending big in free agency to the point that it limits future spending the year(s) after are great examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 This!!!! Sacrificing future resources for immediate results. Trading up (exchanging multiple future picks for one pick) and spending big in free agency to the point that it limits future spending the year(s) after are great examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I think they are in the 'frustrate them" mode to get rid of the fans with unrealistic expectations who will never be happy so why not dump them on another team? That fan of #34 become a fan of Dion Bailey without changing the alias. The stoners will migrate to fan of a team in MJ-friendly state whose team will embrace the pot heads and give lip service to NFL drug rules and help players avoid drug failures; Ricky Williams may even unretire for them. Do I think their strategy will work? No for as many bad eggs they pawn off on other teams they will get more Bills "fans" who will relish the mistakes they make and brag how they knew they were designated for failure and any successes they had were luck or mistakes of other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Every team is in 'win now' mode. Every team is in 'development' mode. Its a stupid term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Last year , I bought into it and on paper DW put together an impressive looking roster. That, coupled with the vids of Rex salivating over the D talent and we were clearly poised for great things......., Wah Wah Wah.....😳 Who knows who, if anybody has the owners ear. All we know is he spent a lot on RR and allowed him to bring in his brother(?!) so it feels like they have at least two more seasons before the rug is pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 To me at least, they don't really want to make it seem like they are. With the additions of McCoy and clay, they were just as important to the development of whatever QB they ended up with and scheme fit. What does win-now mode even mean anyway... To me it doesn't mean "we want to win." Everyone wants to win unless you are tanking. Tanking in the NFL is pretty rare. To me win-now is like if you don't reach a certain line in the sand based on the team currently assembled - be it a SB, SB win, playoffs, playoff win - then the GM and/or coach is gone or the team undergoes a drastic change. This usually occurs - from my observation- when a team feels they have a certain window and it's usually based on the QB situation. For example I would expect teams like the Giants, Chargers, Cardinals, Saints, etc to be in this mode and thinking more short term in their FA and draft investments. I assume others may see it differently. Funny... When you look up terms like "win-now" and "crunch-time", you find they're related to terms like "last-ditch", and "hot water"... Just an observation... Oh yah, and we also hired Rob Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I think Whaley and Rex are under pressure to improve immediately (this season). They saw improving the defense as the best way to do that and focused the offseason on retaining important players and adding players on defense that fit Rex's scheme. In short, keep the offense as in tact as possible and expect that they stay above average while improving the defense to above average so they make it to the playoffs. It's not a bad plan, but it seems like they forced it. They took a big risk on selecting an injured Lawson looking for an impact player at a position of dire need on the defense. It just looks like they forced the pick on hope that he'd be able to make it through the season. It was like they talked themselves into it because they needed it to work out. 19 was just way too early for a player with his injury even when talent level is considered. There were certainly better healthy prospects on the board, but they didn't fill as dire of defensive needs. They also traded up for Ragland to fill another huge need. It wasn't a big trade up and they didn't give up that much (2 fourths), but they obviously want to be sure they got him. I have to believe that filling that defensive hole was huge. Then they added Adolphus to aid the pass rush. I sure don't see him as close to starting this season, but he should fill another vital defensive hole - situational pass rusher. Whaley may have been exaggerating when he said he thought he got 3 immediate starters from the draft, but I don think the sentiment was unfounded. GMs don't usually make those kinds of statements so I have to believe that Rex was expecting that to be the case. I don't know what the reality is Whaley and Rex's situations are. I do think that if the Bills take a big step back they are in trouble. If they make the playoffs, then they are safe. But those shouldn't be surprises. The question is what happens if they're in the 7-9 win range without making the playoffs. I don't know that they'd get fired, but often owners put pressure on their top people and I'm sure the expectations are playoffs. Falling short of that would lead to uncertainty regarding their continued employment. If they fall a little short I expect that they would be retained, but on a short leash for the following season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 What does "now" mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Every team is in 'win now' mode. Every team is in 'development' mode. Its a stupid term. I'm sorry but this is inaccurate. A team like the Saints is operating top to bottom very differently than a team like the Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Win now in the sense that we have a team with talent now and we shouldn't waste it. Absolutely not win now or else for Whaley and probably not for Rexy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I detect no true sense of urgency there. Rex has a fat contract, and Ralph's trash is still running the ream. Team would have to really tank to wake Pegs up. There's no question the message from Whaley and Ryan to the Pegulas seems to be "we got this" -- I hope for our sake they are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) There's no question the message from Whaley and Ryan to the Pegulas seems to be "we got this" -- I hope for our sake they are right.the rumors of discord between the two seem to have dissipated, which is good sign. Its better for them to be a unified front toward the ownership than each of them lobbying their case from a separate angle, which was what I think we saw with Marrone and Whaley. It's critical for a HC and GM to have a positive working relationship. Edited May 21, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 What does win-now mode even mean anyway... To me it means not thinking at all about anything but the next/current season. For example, give up whatever future draft picks you have to in order to get players you think can give you a winning season now. Also commonly referred to as mortgaging the future. It is shortsighted by it's very definition and stupid. But desperate coaches and front office people might fall into this hole if they figure their jobs may be on the line. I don't get the feeling the Bills are in this mode despite some recent decisions the past few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I'm sure this is in response to the Shaq Lawson injury and some fans being disappointed because they believe the Bills are in win-now mode. It's hard to say if the Bills are. I tend to think teams with "franchise" QBs are in win-now mode, every year. They need to get as much out of their teams every year for as long as they have this franchise QB. After he leaves or retires or gets hurt, there are no guarantees they find a replacement. So they need to maximize the time they have. I suppose the question is, win what now? The Super Bowl? As far as the Shaq injury, if the Bills are in win-now mode I don't think that effects it. What teams rely on players in their rookie season to win-now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 The good thing about "Win Now" mode is it can be postponed till the next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Until they have the best front office and scouting staff it will be tough to go far in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 To me it means not thinking at all about anything but the next/current season. For example, give up whatever future draft picks you have to in order to get players you think can give you a winning season now. Also commonly referred to as mortgaging the future. It is shortsighted by it's very definition and stupid. But desperate coaches and front office people might fall into this hole if they figure their jobs may be on the line. I don't get the feeling the Bills are in this mode despite some recent decisions the past few seasons. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) To me it means not thinking at all about anything but the next/current season. For example, give up whatever future draft picks you have to in order to get players you think can give you a winning season now. Also commonly referred to as mortgaging the future. It is shortsighted by it's very definition and stupid. But desperate coaches and front office people might fall into this hole if they figure their jobs may be on the line. I don't get the feeling the Bills are in this mode despite some recent decisions the past few seasons. that is kind of where I am at. Trading up to get what they felt was an immediate true #1 WR who was 20 years old at the time was as much about trying to develop their young QB at the time as it was building the team for the future. There hasn't been a WR available like that in the draft since. That's just an example of a decision that while I think could have been construed at the time as short-term thinking because they gave two extra picks the following year, it has a few different layers to it. Edited May 21, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 They are in whatever mode they want to be in. If they suck, Russ can stand at the podium and say whatever the !@#$ he wants and people will buy it hook line and sinker. It's what makes fans great but at a point it becomes a bit pathetic in my opinion. I am not familiar with these fans of whom you speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 To me it means not thinking at all about anything but the next/current season. For example, give up whatever future draft picks you have to in order to get players you think can give you a winning season now. Also commonly referred to as mortgaging the future. It is shortsighted by it's very definition and stupid. But desperate coaches and front office people might fall into this hole if they figure their jobs may be on the line. I don't get the feeling the Bills are in this mode despite some recent decisions the past few seasons. But aren't teams like Green Bay and New England in win-now mode? They don't mortgage the future for picks but they certainly aren't going to tear down the team and do a rebuild. They aren desperate. Not when they have a "franchise" QB. But they know and expect to win every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 They are in whatever mode they want to be in. If they suck, Russ can stand at the podium and say whatever the !@#$ he wants and people will buy it hook line and sinker. It's what makes fans great but at a point it becomes a bit pathetic in my opinion. Ok we agree .. you are pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 But aren't teams like Green Bay and New England in win-now mode? They don't mortgage the future for picks but they certainly aren't going to tear down the team and do a rebuild. They aren desperate. Not when they have a "franchise" QB. But they know and expect to win every year. Point taken, but it does mean that those teams may choose to address their weaknesses with more immediacy than perhaps otherwise, such as targeting more expensive free agents rather than developing draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I'm telling beer ball... He knows you are pathetic. you put it in writing but he knew anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I don't think you see the money thrown around at middling stars like McCoy and Clay if the Bills didn't think they were a few bounces from making a run. I would not call McCoy a middling star - he is really legit (when healthy). I think Clay is one of the better TEs in the game, but not the game changer that Gronkowski is when he is healthy. I don't really understand this kind of criticism. Teams only have a few ways to acquire talent: draft, trade and Free Agency. If you are going to play in FA, then you are going to pay top dollar (at least for the premiere players available). Clay is here to give the QB a good safe option and to make plays after the catch. I am not sure why he wasn't as productive as we expected last year, but some of it might be Taylor's propensity to run rather than dump the ball off to his TE or RB when the play is breaking down. It might also be that Taylor wasn't comfortable throwing the kinds of routes that Clay runs. Taylor hasn't yet shown that he likes to throw down the middle of the field - and that is where many TEs make their living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) I would not call McCoy a middling star - he is really legit (when healthy). I think Clay is one of the better TEs in the game, but not the game changer that Gronkowski is when he is healthy. I don't really understand this kind of criticism. Teams only have a few ways to acquire talent: draft, trade and Free Agency. If you are going to play in FA, then you are going to pay top dollar (at least for the premiere players available). Clay is here to give the QB a good safe option and to make plays after the catch. I am not sure why he wasn't as productive as we expected last year, but some of it might be Taylor's propensity to run rather than dump the ball off to his TE or RB when the play is breaking down. It might also be that Taylor wasn't comfortable throwing the kinds of routes that Clay runs. Taylor hasn't yet shown that he likes to throw down the middle of the field - and that is where many TEs make their living. I'm not even really criticizing them in this case. My point is that a team like the Rams and other bottom feeders would look at an FA like Clay and say, "we can get a top 10 TE for top 3 money, is that going to be worth it?" And they would decide, "no," because they have holes elsewhere and having all that money tied up in 1 player won't be the last push they need to make a postseason run. Whereas a team like the Bills may be saying, "we already have a pretty good gaggle of talent with a few holes and we feel we are a playmaker or two away. What is better for us for the next 2-3 years, signing 2 middling FA's competing for jobs or overpaying for a good player?" And in their mind, overpaying for Clay is worth it. See the difference? Edited May 21, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I don't think you see the money thrown around at middling stars like McCoy and Clay if the Bills didn't think they were a few bounces from making a run. Oh, come now. McCoy was hardly a "middling star." Compare his stats to Hall of Famers at comparable ages and he stacks up well. He is currently 8th on the active yards list and only two players in the top 25 -- Alfred Morris at 18 and Doug Martin at 22 -- are younger (and this is counting last year's somewhat off season). When we traded for him, he was a top 5, probably top 3, back in his prime (on average, RBs have their best season at age 27). Middling star...yeesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Oh, come now. McCoy was hardly a "middling star." Compare his stats to Hall of Famers at comparable ages and he stacks up well. He is currently 8th on the active yards list and only two players in the top 25 -- Alfred Morris at 18 and Doug Martin at 22 -- are younger (and this is counting last year's somewhat off season). When we traded for him, he was a top 5, probably top 3, back in his prime (on average, RBs have their best season at age 27). Middling star...yeesh!"Middling star" is being kind given McCoy's production the past two seasons, especially when you look at his YPC. He is on the downslope of a good career. There is not another team in the league that would have given him the contract Whaley did last year. And he's not a great person either, FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 "Middling star" is being kind given McCoy's production the past two seasons, especially when you look at his YPC. He is on the downslope of a good career. There is not another team in the league that would have given him the contract Whaley did last year. And he's not a great person either, FWIW. The claim no other team would offer him that kind of contract is not based on anything but your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 The claim no other team would offer him that kind of contract is not based on anything but your opinion. But...so is the converse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 But...so is the converse. Not true. Plenty of people in the league feel McCoy is a top tier back based on any number of sources. Top teir backs get paid, even if the position has become devalued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I don't think you see the money thrown around at middling stars like McCoy and Clay if the Bills didn't think they were a few bounces from making a run.Yes, and throw in the fact (whether fans like it or not isn't the issue) that Whaley trades away draft selections and it does appear that they are in fact trying to "win now." Imo it makes what is happening with this team that much more pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Not true. Plenty of people in the league feel McCoy is a top tier back based on any number of sources. Top teir backs get paid, even if the position has become devalued. Are you telling me that you're backing it up with just other folks' opinions? And they invalidate other opinions? What. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Win now in the sense that we have a team with talent now and we shouldn't waste it. Absolutely not win now or else for Whaley and probably not for Rexy.How's it working out so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 But aren't teams like Green Bay and New England in win-now mode? They don't mortgage the future for picks but they certainly aren't going to tear down the team and do a rebuild. They aren desperate. Not when they have a "franchise" QB. But they know and expect to win every year. What you are referring to I think is a team with a winning history. They are used to winning, and to making decisions that allow them to continue to win both now and years from now. A win now mentality has the stink of desperation to it that forces teams to gamble their future in a generally reckless manner. That's the difference I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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