Does a Coach Matter that much in NFL?

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Just looked and last year's Rex's team is now 4-1, matching the number of wins they had last year under Rex when they went 4-12. Our team, which was 9-7 last year has only 3 wins and looks lost. I say coaching does matter a lot and wished we signed the guy the Jets signed. Quiet, demanding guy who demands discipline.

Edited October 18, 2015 by BuffaloBillsMagic1

[FireChan]

Ask Bruce Arians.

[Alphadawg7]

Just looked and last year's Rex's team is now 4-1, matching the number of wins they had last year under Rex when they went 4-12. Our team, which was 9-7 last year has only 3 wins and looks lost. I say coaching does matter a lot and wished we signed the guy the Jets signed. Quiet, demanding guy who demands discipline.

 

Weird...I look around the NFL over the years...and teams missing their starting QB, starting OT, top 2 WRs, and most their RBs typically don't win much.

 

But somehow Rex is bad because a team starting backups at most skill positions can't get it done against a 5-0 team? Its not fair to judge Rex on a team missing its best players most the season. Let this team finally all get healthy and then judge what he can do with it.

[playman]

fire rex. a co-coordinator in over his head. and i don´t give a f... about his truck

[BuffaloFan68]

Right now Jim Shwartz looks like a better DC than Rexxie

I would love it if Whaley would/could bring Jim Shwartz in as Asst HC & DC

[VaMilBill]

Look at what Jim harbaugh did for San Fran. Bruce Arians in Indy and Arizona, Pete Carroll in Seattle and obviosly BB. Honestly I think a good coach is more important than a QB

[chris heff]

Yes a coach does matter and Rex Ryan is not a good one. His team is undisaplined and the only thing confused by his defense is his defense.

[Augie]

This is a very talented team, with a .500 record. That's on Rex. The D is under-achieving, ST's stink, we lead the league in penalties (by a comfortable margin), offensive play makers are not making a lot of plays. Roman is an upgrade, the rest is garbage. And it's all on Rex.

[Prickly Pete]

 

Weird...I look around the NFL over the years...and teams missing their starting QB, starting OT, top 2 WRs, and most their RBs typically don't win much.

 

But somehow Rex is bad because a team starting backups at most skill positions can't get it done against a 5-0 team? Its not fair to judge Rex on a team missing its best players most the season. Let this team finally all get healthy and then judge what he can do with it.

Before this game, I heard a few talking heads mention that the Bengals play like they are on a mission. I laughed it off. Today I sawit from them. Alas, I didn't see it from our Bills. Instilling a sense of mission comes from the coach. Plenty of talent here.

[Gray Beard]

silly thread title. i guess you could ask that is some sort of rhetorical or hypothetical or sarcastic sense.

yes, coaching matters, and it is a huge reason why the Bills are playing so badly. How can the defense be among the leaders in sacks one year, to having almost no sacks the next? How can the offense not exploit seam routes, rubs and quick throws? How can the defense have no answer to these tactics?

I think there has been a paradigm shift that favors the quick passing game, possibly due to rule changes to protect against late hits, hi-low blocks, etc., along with the way penalties are being enforced, and this coaching staff hasn't caught on.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Ever watch the Bills?

[BringBackOrton]

Considering Marrone and Schwartz did more with less, the answer to your question is yes.

[Corp000085]

My coworker, a lifelong Jets fan, told me over the winter that I'd be wishing for a new coach by Halloween. He went on a rant about Rex Ryan being all talk and no show. Bad defenses, bad penalties, and inexcusable/uninspiring play. Turns out he might be right, and as I said in another thread... As much as it pains me, since the last guy was a jerk, but possibly...

 

Doug Marrone > Rex Ryan

[BuffaloFan68]

I'd have Shwartz on stand -bye & speed dial. If we loose to the Jags - Rex is toast.

The Bills were not pumped up for this game - very flat.

[Prickly Pete]

Marrone vs Ryan....who cares? Neither is the answer.

[Best Player Available]

Right now Jim Shwartz looks like a better DC than RexxieI would love it if Whaley would/could bring Jim Shwartz in as Asst HC & DC

IMO that is hard to argue. Schwartz knew something when he turned the DC job down.

And it was more than being butt hurt over not getting the Bills HC gig.

[Augie]

My coworker, a lifelong Jets fan, told me over the winter that I'd be wishing for a new coach by Halloween. He went on a rant about Rex Ryan being all talk and no show. Bad defenses, bad penalties, and inexcusable/uninspiring play. Turns out he might be right, and as I said in another thread... As much as it pains me, since the last guy was a jerk, but possibly...

 

Doug Marrone > Rex Ryan

It's not Halloween yet - we're early.

[Dirtbag]

Doug Marrone > Rex Ryan

obviously - only one has a pinstripe bowl ring.

[Momma Pecoraro]

Ronnie Jones!

[JohnC]

 

Weird...I look around the NFL over the years...and teams missing their starting QB, starting OT, top 2 WRs, and most their RBs typically don't win much.

 

But somehow Rex is bad because a team starting backups at most skill positions can't get it done against a 5-0 team? Its not fair to judge Rex on a team missing its best players most the season. Let this team finally all get healthy and then judge what he can do with it.

Compare how the Jets played under mouthy Rex to how the Jets are performing under silent Todd Bowles. Whether we are missing our best players or not isn't the test of good coaching, it is how your players, including your subs, play. There is a lack of discipline and intelligence in their play. Brooks makes a routine tackle on a punt and then gets in the face of the person he tackled talking trash in front of the referee. This came after the HC for the past couple of weeks hasemphasized the necessity to keep one's composure and play with discipline. Maybe the HC needs to get better bracelets to remind his dopey players to maintain their discipline on routine plays?

 

There were question marks regarding the offense entering the season. Everyone was aware of the problem area. However, this team is built around its defense. The preponderance of the cap is directed toward the defense. Considering its talent level it is underperforming. What happened to the once dominant pass rush? It has vanished! The HC's specialty is on the defensive side of the game. By any measurement Schwatrz got the defense to play at a much higher level with mostly the same players than this self-promoting braggert HC has.

[Jobu]

I was skeptical about the Ryan hire initially, then he scored Roman and I started to come around. The rest of his assistant hires did not really impress me, but hell they are assistants, no fan is capable of identifying a good assistant. We are not privy to the information necessary to make those grades. I do know we did not get the online coach he wanted.

 

My first choice was to promote Schwartz to HC. Still wish we would have done it. There is still time for Rex to turn it around, and it starts by going back to the wide 9. If he is as big of a defensive guru as his reputation makes him out to be, this should not be hard to do.

 

Still a lot of season left, and I am pulling for them to get it figured out.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Show Me The Baby

[zonabb]

I think a coach matters much more when you lack a franchise QB. I these cases, mistakes are magnified and costly. If you're a marginal coach with a marginal QB, you look like a marginal coach. With a franchise QB, a coach's ineptitude is masked by the QB eminent talent, which in most cases overcomes bad coaching. Is Mike McCarthy a great coach or did he get luckily with a cerebral, amazing talent under QB?

 

Rex is marginal. What I always thought was a chink in his armor was his arrogance, which hisplayers bought into, often falsely, leading the, to rely more on the hype than the preparation and execution. I'm driven insane by stupidity and this team is the poster child of belie average intelligence coupled with misplaced arrogance. So absence the QB and chock full of arrogance, a 3-3 record is about right.

 

This forum is the optimists club but Im a member of the realist club and as a season ticket holder, it's sad that another non-playoff season is upon us. Brady, Dalton, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Luck.... How can anyone expect this team with TT or EJ to make the playoffs???

 

This is a QB league. Bills still don't have one. End of story. Slam it all you want. It's reality. When a second tier but very good QB hangs 34 on what some call a top defense, it should tell you all you need to know.

 

And I'll end with this:Gilmore is waaaay overrated by many. He's wildly inconsistent. He's remember for making a few plays but he get nickeled And dimed to death and gives up an occasional big play. He's not nor ever will be a shutdown corner. He's Leodis Version 2.0. Watch Revis and if you think he's in the same breath, you need to follow a sports you can understand.

[BADOLBILZ]

I was skeptical about the Ryan hire initially, then he scored Roman and I started to come around. The rest of his assistant hires did not really impress me, but hell they are assistants, no fan is capable of identifying a good assistant. We are not privy to the information necessary to make those grades. I do know we did not get the online coach he wanted.

 

My first choice was to promote Schwartz to HC. Still wish we would have done it. There is still time for Rex to turn it around, and it starts by going back to the wide 9. If he is as big of a defensive guru as his reputation makes him out to be, this should not be hard to do.

 

Still a lot of season left, and I am pulling for them to get it figured out.

 

Schwartz is also a knucklehead.

 

One trick pony whose scheme was ideal for the defensive talent at hand but not capable of being a top HC.

[Boatdrinks]

Just looked and last year's Rex's team is now 4-1, matching the number of wins they had last year under Rex when they went 4-12. Our team, which was 9-7 last year has only 3 wins and looks lost. I say coaching does matter a lot and wished we signed the guy the Jets signed. Quiet, demanding guy who demands discipline.

Coaching matters to a certain point of competence, then it's almost all players. A good HC almost always has a good QB, which I think matters most of all. The Jets had less penalties than the Bills last season fwiw.

[Storm Front]

It's a qb driven league. We haven't had a decent qb since Doug Flutie.

[Jobu]

 

Schwartz is also a knucklehead.

 

One trick pony whose scheme was ideal for the defensive talent at hand but not capable of being a top HC.

 

What are you basing this on? Your profound knowledge of what it takes to be a great NFL coach? His first go round in Detroit? You do realize everyone thought Belicheck was crap after Cleveland right? Marv Levy after Kansas City... Should I continue?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

What are you basing this on? Your profound knowledge of what it takes to be a great NFL coach? His first go round in Detroit? You do realize everyone thought Belicheck was crap after Cleveland right? Marv Levy after Kansas City... Should I continue?

 

 

Yeah, his first go round in Detroit and his history as an inflexible, scheme specific DC.

 

People should stop comparing every failed first time coach to Belichick in Cleveland.

 

A guy on here named C.Biscuit actually used that "BB was a first time failure" defense to support his idea that Dick Jauron was a great coach. For FOUR seasons.

 

Schwartz failed with a lot of talent in Detroit on both offense and defense and the team wasn't moving to Baltimore during his final season.

 

His record as a DC is mediocre.

 

FAR less effective or consistent than Rex.

[The Frankish Reich]

 

Weird...I look around the NFL over the years...and teams missing their starting QB, starting OT, top 2 WRs, and most their RBs typically don't win much.

 

But somehow Rex is bad because a team starting backups at most skill positions can't get it done against a 5-0 team? Its not fair to judge Rex on a team missing its best players most the season. Let this team finally all get healthy and then judge what he can do with it.

Then again, we just saw a good coach beat a very good team without it's HOF QB, and with a 3rd stringer playing (Steelers). We also saw another team start a 40 year old instead of it's pro bowl QB and win (Colts). Meanwhile our almost perfectly healthy defense gets torched by every good QB we face. I think it is fair.

[PlayoffsPlease]

I think we can all agree that this the best coached most talented 3-3 team in NFL history. Whaley has put everything together better than anyone ever has before.

[Jobu]

 

 

Yeah, his first go round in Detroit and his history as an inflexible, scheme specific DC.

 

People should stop comparing every failed first time coach to Belichick in Cleveland.

 

A guy on here named C.Biscuit actually used that "BB was a first time failure" defense to support his idea that Dick Jauron was a great coach. For FOUR seasons.

 

Schwartz failed with a lot of talent in Detroit on both offense and defense and the team wasn't moving to Baltimore during his final season.

 

His record as a DC is mediocre.

 

FAR less effective or consistent than Rex.

 

Pretty limited work for you to base such a rock solid opinion on. Notice I did not mention Dick Jauron, and I did not only mention Belicheck. I did mention Levy and there are several more. Pete Carroll for instance? Gruden? Shanahan? Perhaps if you took a little time to expand your narrow perspective instead of trying to pin assinine takes on me that are not mine; you might know that. Schwartz had a less than ideal situation in Detroit. Your opinion (they are like bungholes, everyone had one) has not changed mine. He is going to be a good head coach.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Show Me The Baby

[Augie]

I don't know if Schwartz was the guy for HC, but he sure as hell did better with the D. If Ryan sucks at his forte, what good is he? He did one hell of a sales job on the Pegulas though. Then the media, then some of us.....

[BADOLBILZ]

He is going to be a good head coach.

 

 

There is nothing to support that idea.

 

So rather than citing something like years of failure as evidence.....as I did.....your take is that your fact-free opinion is why he will be a good head coach.

 

He was an overhyped assistant when Detroit hired him....his track record as a DC was not that good.

 

Like I said.......nothing but an unsupported opinion on your part.

[BillsVet]

A HC needs to define the identity of the team, work with the GM to acquire talent to support that identity, and use that talent effectively on gameday.

 

In Buffalo the GM and HC haven't worked well enough together to build a winner since the Marv/Polian years. Each HC/GM combination since then seems to have been running in different directions and making decisions to support their ego and/or out-dated identity they wanted to establish.

 

Of late, that could be Whaley trading up to draft a WR without a decent QB to throw them the ball. Or Nix taking a RB with his first draft pick to run behind an offensive line that was plodding and immobile. Or Nix deciding to go defense heavy in 2010-12 on draft day when the league is shaded toward permitting offense. Or, the last 4 GMs since 2006 combining to take (EDIT: 2 QBs) in the top 3 rounds when other teams were persistent addressing the position.

 

I know what Rex wants to do. I'm just not sure if he knows how to go about doing it. And what complicates everything is that Whaley's trying to survive as GM with a coach he doesn't agree with on the 53 man roster. Something's gotta give soon, but if I was a betting man it'd be the GM would go before the HC.

Edited October 19, 2015 by BillsVet

[Jobu]

 

 

There is nothing to support that idea.

 

So rather than citing something like years of failure as evidence.....as I did.....your take is that your fact-free opinion is why he will be a good head coach.

 

He was an overhyped assistant when Detroit hired him....his track record as a DC was not that good.

 

Like I said.......nothing but an unsupported opinion on your part.

 

Do you smoke crack in your free time too? Overhyped assistant? Track record as a DC not very good? How old are you? He was DC in Tennessee from 2001-2008 -- arguably some of the best defenses around during that time.

 

He took the Lions from perennial laughing stocks back to the playoffs in his third year. The Lions had not been to the playoffs since 99 and when he landed in Detroit, that team was so devoid of talent they made the current Bucs look like Super Bowl winners. Unfortunately he was tied to Stafford, and he ain't the GM. Not to mention his GM left a lot to be desired. Ironically a Bills draft choice. Go figure.

 

Your takes are weak.

[dave mcbride]

A HC needs to define the identity of the team, work with the GM to acquire talent to support that identity, and use that talent effectively on gameday.

 

In Buffalo the GM and HC haven't worked well enough together to build a winner since the Marv/Polian years. Each HC/GM combination since then seems to have been running in different directions and making decisions to support their ego and/or out-dated identity they wanted to establish.

 

Of late, that could be Whaley trading up to draft a WR without a decent QB to throw them the ball. Or Nix taking a RB with his first draft pick to run behind an offensive line that was plodding and immobile. Or Nix deciding to go defense heavy in 2010-12 on draft day when the league is shaded toward permitting offense. Or, the last 4 GMs since 2006 combining to take 1 QB in the top 3 rounds when other teams were persistent addressing the position.

 

I know what Rex wants to do. I'm just not sure if he knows how to go about doing it. And what complicates everything is that Whaley's trying to survive as GM with a coach he doesn't agree with on the 53 man roster. Something's gotta give soon, but if I was a betting man it'd be the GM would go before the HC.

 

Hey - trent edwards was a third rounder.

[BillsVet]

Hey - trent edwards was a third rounder.

 

Correct Dave. I made the correction.

[Jobu]

If we lose Whaley for Rex, my head might explode. Could be ugly.

[Augie]

If we lose Whaley for Rex, my head might explode. Could be ugly.

That would be messy, and I don't want that AT ALL!

[dave mcbride]

Do you smoke crack in your free time too? Overhyped assistant? Track record as a DC not very good? How old are you? He was DC in Tennessee from 2001-2008 -- arguably some of the best defenses around during that time.

 

He took the Lions from perennial laughing stocks back to the playoffs in his third year. The Lions had not been to the playoffs since 99 and when he landed in Detroit, that team was so devoid of talent they made the current Bucs look like Super Bowl winners. Unfortunately he was tied to Stafford, and he ain't the GM. Not to mention his GM left a lot to be desired. Ironically a Bills draft choice. Go figure.

 

Your takes are weak.

If you actually look at tennesee's production on defense when he was there, it was the definition of mediocre. A couple of good season evened out with a couple of horrible seasons, plus a few mediocre seasons in between. Badol is right about that. He is not a dope though - he has an economics degree from georgetown and is pretty smart. His one big flaw is not being a knucklehead; it is catering to and encouraging knuckleheads (tennesse and drtroit). He lost control of the team in detroit.

 

In tennesee, his defenses' average rankings over 8 seasons were 16th in yards and 17th in points. 8 years is a big sample size.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/

Edited October 19, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Augie]

It would be dumb but not surprising.

Between Whaley and Rex, there's only one clown. It's not Whaley. I stuck with Ralph from my birth to his death. Clown moves favoring Rex and I'm left to wonder. I never thought I could reconsider my allegiance, but......... almost anyone but Rex.