Bills Trade Cassel to Cowboys

[SWATeam]

We could package up and get a second! The Bills need another Troup in the worst way.

Might as well finish it off... If somehow we can get another first, we need another Maybin in the worst way!

[FireChan]

You're clearly right. How could we find another meh out there?!?

Ask Dallas, they just had to trade for one. I suppose they had a bunch of guys they loved in FA, but just wanted to get rid of some picks to help out the Bills.

Edited September 24, 2015 by FireChan

[NoSaint]

Ask Dallas, they just had to trade for one. I suppose they had a bunch of guys they loved in FA, but just wanted to get rid of some picks to help out the Bills.

And it cost them nothing if I'm to listen to your evaluation. So what's the big deal you are throwing a fit over?

 

In the rare scenario we lose 2 qbs we can go find a rather meh quality one easily. Odds are we won't have to.

Edited September 24, 2015 by NoSaint

[Punching Bag]

@mikerodak

Bills take confusing stance on Matt Cassel trade, EJ Manuel promotion: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/180637/bills-take-confusing-stance-on-matt-cassel-trade-ej-manuel-promotion

Rodak articles are always confusing for he mixes up facts with his opinions so it is no surprise it is a "confusing stance" to him.

[FireChan]

And it cost them nothing if I'm to listen to your evaluation. So what's the big deal you are throwing a fit over?

 

In the rare scenario we lose 2 qbs we can go find a rather meh quality one easily. Odds are we won't have to.

I think you're confusing confusion and fits.

 

It just seems like we 180'd over two weeks. I'm not really sure why. But I'll end it there, because it seems some folks are getting upset that I'm consistent, instead of flip-flopping at the altar of Whaley.

[NoSaint]

I think you're confusing confusion and fits.

 

It just seems like we 180'd over two weeks. I'm not really sure why. But I'll end it there, because it seems some folks are getting upset that I'm consistent, instead of flip-flopping at the altar of Whaley.

Flip flopping? Whaley liked him but only at a specific value. He was willing to lose him for nothing to get there. He was willing to part ways for minimal compensation even once there. Really have to contort to get there....

[FireChan]

Flip flopping? Whaley liked him but only at a specific value. He was willing to lose him for nothing to get there. He was willing to part ways for minimal compensation even once there. Really have to contort to get there....

But liked him enough to be our #2.

[NoSaint]

But liked him enough to be our #2.

And? That requires flip flopping to understand? If you don't view it in absolutes it's incredibly easy to follow.

[FireChan]

And? That requires flip flopping to understand? If you don't view it in absolutes it's incredibly easy to follow.

I'm not viewing it in absolutes. I'm just wondering how you can have a guy that you're confident in bringing home a game if your running QB gets dinged up, then say, "yeah, he's worth a fifth two years from now."

 

You say he has a value of Cassel and a value of the 2017 pick, and the pick was higher. Fine. At what point do we place precedence on this season when we're "all in," and "get ready, we're going?" Seems incongruous. Having that pick won't make or break us this year, but having the guy who clearly was thought of as the second best QB on the roster might.

 

I don't mean to claim that we can only exclusively be a short term thinking team. Cutting Fred was another thing I thought Whaley was wrong on, but I saw the rationale to re-sign Dareus. I don't view the 5th rounder two years from now anywhere CLOSE to that. Do you?

[NoSaint]

I'm not viewing it in absolutes. I'm just wondering how you can have a guy that you're confident in bringing home a game if your running QB gets dinged up, then say, "yeah, he's worth a fifth two years from now."

 

You say he has a value of Cassel and a value of the 2017 pick, and the pick was higher. Fine. At what point do we place precedence on this season when we're "all in," and "get ready, we're going?" Seems incongruous. Having that pick won't make or break us this year, but having the guy who clearly was thought of as the second best QB on the roster might.

 

I don't mean to claim that we can only exclusively be a short term thinking team. Cutting Fred was another thing I thought Whaley was wrong on, but I saw the rationale to re-sign Dareus. I don't view the 5th rounder two years from now anywhere CLOSE to that. Do you?

It's fluid and sometimes subtle/indirect situations. And you are trying to pigeonhole them into greater and direct meanings.

 

Fred dos not make dareus directly possible, but it did allow Whaley to find other more efficient uses for the roster spot and cash. If you must draw that direct line to gain context/understanding, go for it I guess. You could draw it to literally any signing in the next year (or a few). If we kept Fred would dareus be unsigned today? I REALLY doubt it personally, but still buy there was value in the move in overall roster construction and I'm fine with it.

 

For Matt to be #2 isn't a declaration that he's a great option, or that are #3 is distantly behind. Clearly they were prepared to go with either guy as #2 but if carrying both, the close decision went to MC. That extra value seemed to be worth approx 2m and a roster spot, but not $2m a roster spot and a pick, so they took the offer. They had MC at literally the max expense the could justify so they moved on when the Cowboys increased the opportunity cost of keeping him.

 

It's a seemingly very small change in quality of #2, and a bit more of a gap in #3 probably but midway through September I'd venture that we see little risk of that and in turn have gained a roster spot, cap space, a draft pick, and given more reps to a guy they see as heading in an upward trajectory.

 

In two weeks tyrod showed well, ej likely showed well, cassel might not have been (heck they might even think long term the new baby will be a distraction to him) and an 1/8 of the injury risk is washed out already for that worst case scenario.

 

if you saw any other team do it, it wouldn't even begin to register as noteworthy yet alone confusing. Just a fringe player with limited value.

[FireChan]

It's fluid and sometimes subtle/indirect situations. And you are trying to pigeonhole them into greater and direct meanings.

 

Fred dos not make dareus directly possible, but it did allow Whaley to find other more efficient uses for the roster spot and cash. If you must draw that direct line to gain context/understanding, go for it I guess. You could draw it to literally any signing in the next year (or a few). If we kept Fred would dareus be unsigned today? I REALLY doubt it personally, but still buy there was value in the move in overall roster construction and I'm fine with it.

 

For Matt to be #2 isn't a declaration that he's a great option, or that are #3 is distantly behind. Clearly they were prepared to go with either guy as #2 but if carrying both, the close decision went to MC. That extra value seemed to be worth approx 2m and a roster spot, but not $2m a roster spot and a pick, so they took the offer. They had MC at literally the max expense the could justify so they moved on when the Cowboys increased the opportunity cost of keeping him.

 

It's a seemingly very small change in quality of #2, and a bit more of a gap in #3 probably but midway through September I'd venture that we see little risk of that and in turn have gained a roster spot, cap space, a draft pick, and given more reps to a guy they see as heading in an upward trajectory.

 

In two weeks tyrod showed well, ej likely showed well, cassel might not have been (heck they might even think long term the new baby will be a distraction to him) and an 1/8 of the injury risk is washed out already for that worst case scenario.

 

if you saw any other team do it, it wouldn't even begin to register as noteworthy yet alone confusing. Just a fringe player with limited value.

That's probably true. In fact, it is. The Vikings moved on from Cassel the exact same way. Just too close to the situation I guess.

[Doc]

I'm betting Cassel wishes he took that extension the Bills offered months ago. Thank goodness he didn't though.

[NoSaint]

I'm betting Cassel wishes he took that extension the Bills offered months ago. Thank goodness he didn't though.

Who knows the terms. Could've had him stuck in a situation he doesn't like long term, for all we know.

[LB3]

It's fluid and sometimes subtle/indirect situations. And you are trying to pigeonhole them into greater and direct meanings.

 

Fred dos not make dareus directly possible, but it did allow Whaley to find other more efficient uses for the roster spot and cash. If you must draw that direct line to gain context/understanding, go for it I guess. You could draw it to literally any signing in the next year (or a few). If we kept Fred would dareus be unsigned today? I REALLY doubt it personally, but still buy there was value in the move in overall roster construction and I'm fine with it.

 

For Matt to be #2 isn't a declaration that he's a great option, or that are #3 is distantly behind. Clearly they were prepared to go with either guy as #2 but if carrying both, the close decision went to MC. That extra value seemed to be worth approx 2m and a roster spot, but not $2m a roster spot and a pick, so they took the offer. They had MC at literally the max expense the could justify so they moved on when the Cowboys increased the opportunity cost of keeping him.

 

It's a seemingly very small change in quality of #2, and a bit more of a gap in #3 probably but midway through September I'd venture that we see little risk of that and in turn have gained a roster spot, cap space, a draft pick, and given more reps to a guy they see as heading in an upward trajectory.

 

In two weeks tyrod showed well, ej likely showed well, cassel might not have been (heck they might even think long term the new baby will be a distraction to him) and an 1/8 of the injury risk is washed out already for that worst case scenario.

 

if you saw any other team do it, it wouldn't even begin to register as noteworthy yet alone confusing. Just a fringe player with limited value.

Great post.

[eball]

It's fluid and sometimes subtle/indirect situations. And you are trying to pigeonhole them into greater and direct meanings.

 

Fred dos not make dareus directly possible, but it did allow Whaley to find other more efficient uses for the roster spot and cash. If you must draw that direct line to gain context/understanding, go for it I guess. You could draw it to literally any signing in the next year (or a few). If we kept Fred would dareus be unsigned today? I REALLY doubt it personally, but still buy there was value in the move in overall roster construction and I'm fine with it.

 

For Matt to be #2 isn't a declaration that he's a great option, or that are #3 is distantly behind. Clearly they were prepared to go with either guy as #2 but if carrying both, the close decision went to MC. That extra value seemed to be worth approx 2m and a roster spot, but not $2m a roster spot and a pick, so they took the offer. They had MC at literally the max expense the could justify so they moved on when the Cowboys increased the opportunity cost of keeping him.

 

It's a seemingly very small change in quality of #2, and a bit more of a gap in #3 probably but midway through September I'd venture that we see little risk of that and in turn have gained a roster spot, cap space, a draft pick, and given more reps to a guy they see as heading in an upward trajectory.

 

In two weeks tyrod showed well, ej likely showed well, cassel might not have been (heck they might even think long term the new baby will be a distraction to him) and an 1/8 of the injury risk is washed out already for that worst case scenario.

 

if you saw any other team do it, it wouldn't even begin to register as noteworthy yet alone confusing. Just a fringe player with limited value.

 

This is a really good post. You should email it to Jerry Sullivan and Vic Carucci because they simply can't wrap their heads around the situation.

[Solomon Grundy]

 

This is a really good post. You should email it to Jerry Sullivan and Vic Carucci because they simply can't wrap their heads around the situation.

That's because they don't want to accept the reality of the situation. Just because David Lee said Cassel was a good classroom guy doesn't mean his "good" carried over to the field. Rex also said in his presser that Cassel got the #2 nod due to his veteran status. In two weeks of practice, could the "light" have clicked on for EJ? Only the coaches know. Not Jerry Sullivan or Vic Carucci. EJ Manuel is the #2 QB for the Buffalo Bills. Get over it and accept it!! Edited September 24, 2015 by the skycap

[YoloinOhio]

I feel like there has been a slight overreaction about trading a backup QB who was here for 7 months.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

 

 

 

lol Happy Face

I think you're confusing confusion and fits.

 

It just seems like we 180'd over two weeks. I'm not really sure why. But I'll end it there, because it seems some folks are getting upset that I'm consistent, instead of flip-flopping at the altar of Whaley.

Only if YOU thought you were smarter than a GM.

 

Your desire to see EJM cut or traded has blinded you to the bigger picture set in place by Whaley at the beginning if this year maybe?

I feel like there has been a slight overreaction about trading a backup QB who was here for 7 months.

ya think?

[Nanker]

How did Baltimore survive with only TT as the unproven backup to Flacco for all those years?

EJ has more starter experience in the NFL than Tayor does. He's no rookie either. But he's finally in a spot where he can develop... which is where he should be.

 

Too bad for those realists that are perplexed by #rogue's wheelings and dealings.

[nucci]

I feel like there has been a slight overreaction about trading a backup QB who was here for 7 months.

Especially since it's Cassel, a below average back up

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

How did Baltimore survive with only TT as the unproven backup to Flacco for all those years?

EJ has more starter experience in the NFL than Tayor does. He's no rookie either. But he's finally in a spot where he can develop... which is where he should be.

 

Too bad for those realists that are perplexed by #rogue's wheelings and dealings.

LMAO

[papazoid]

if cassel gets his chance, i bet he does very well behind that dallas O-line

[dave mcbride]

It's fluid and sometimes subtle/indirect situations. And you are trying to pigeonhole them into greater and direct meanings.

Fred dos not make dareus directly possible, but it did allow Whaley to find other more efficient uses for the roster spot and cash. If you must draw that direct line to gain context/understanding, go for it I guess. You could draw it to literally any signing in the next year (or a few). If we kept Fred would dareus be unsigned today? I REALLY doubt it personally, but still buy there was value in the move in overall roster construction and I'm fine with it.

For Matt to be #2 isn't a declaration that he's a great option, or that are #3 is distantly behind. Clearly they were prepared to go with either guy as #2 but if carrying both, the close decision went to MC. That extra value seemed to be worth approx 2m and a roster spot, but not $2m a roster spot and a pick, so they took the offer. They had MC at literally the max expense the could justify so they moved on when the Cowboys increased the opportunity cost of keeping him.

It's a seemingly very small change in quality of #2, and a bit more of a gap in #3 probably but midway through September I'd venture that we see little risk of that and in turn have gained a roster spot, cap space, a draft pick, and given more reps to a guy they see as heading in an upward trajectory.

In two weeks tyrod showed well, ej likely showed well, cassel might not have been (heck they might even think long term the new baby will be a distraction to him) and an 1/8 of the injury risk is washed out already for that worst case scenario.

if you saw any other team do it, it wouldn't even begin to register as noteworthy yet alone confusing. Just a fringe player with limited value.

I tend to agree with FireChan here. I feel like the Bills got nothing for him given that the late pick is two years down the road. It'd be one thing if it was a salary dump, but it wasn't because they just re-signed Cassel. I don't quite get the trade, and I must confess that the only thing that really makes sense is the idea that Whaley is clearing a path for his guy (Manuel). Nothing else makes sense. That said, it'll all be ok if Whaley is right and Manuel has to come in and plays well. Then it's a good move, I guess.

 

One other thing: I'm a fan of keeping three real qbs on the roster. 2 just seems like really shaky roster management to me given injuries.

Edited September 24, 2015 by dave mcbride

[papazoid]

question: which is heavier ? ....a 2016 5th round choice or a 2017 5th round choice.....

 

 

answer : they weigh the same

[CodeMonkey]

Whatever the reason, it blows that the Bills did it with Cassels wife 8 months pregnant.

[Fan in Chicago]

I tend to agree with FireChan here. I feel like the Bills got nothing for him given that the late pick is two years down the road. It'd be one thing if it was a salary dump, but it wasn't because they just re-signed Cassel. I don't quite get the trade, and I must confess that the only thing that really makes sense is the idea that Whaley is clearing a path for his guy (Manuel). Nothing else makes sense. That said, it'll all be ok if Whaley is right and Manuel has to come in and plays well. Then it's a good move, I guess.

One other thing: I'm a fan of keeping three real qbs on the roster. 2 just seems like really shaky roster management to me given injuries.

I also like the thought of having three, including one vet. But I absolutely disagree that this is Whaley promoting 'his guy'. If this was the case, he would never have re-signed him after cutting him.

[Nanker]

if cassel gets his chance, i bet he does very well behind that dallas O-line

One thing's for certain. Matt Cassel is not winning any games for The Buffalo Bills this year - or next.

 

Sounds like M. C. was pissed that he didn't get the starter spot. Maybe he advocated for the trade. He was t going to start here, and he might have a much better shot of doing that in Dallas.

 

What would The Bills of the 80s and 90s have done IF Kelly AND Reich went down with injuries for an extended time?

 

#Rogue is rolling the dice! Riverboat Gambler! Let's hope for positive results.

 

Go Bills!

[PastaJoe]

If they thought EJ had improved then why resign Cassel and make him #2. Why not just make EJ #2 from the point Cassel was cut. That's where they ended up anyways. They must figure Cassel was better than EJ, but neither are good enough to win this year so try to get something for one of them. They're all in on Taylor. If he tanks then so does the season.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Whatever the reason, it blows that the Bills did it with Cassels wife 8 months pregnant.

it is a business. Do you honestly think a business cares about your personal life?

[YoloinOhio]

I'll wait for the 30 for 30 on this.

[Solomon Grundy]

I'll wait for the 30 for 30 on this.

It's more like "The Twilight Zone". They're questioning Rex's answers!!

[Maury Ballstein]

I tend to agree with FireChan here. I feel like the Bills got nothing for him given that the late pick is two years down the road. It'd be one thing if it was a salary dump, but it wasn't because they just re-signed Cassel. I don't quite get the trade, and I must confess that the only thing that really makes sense is the idea that Whaley is clearing a path for his guy (Manuel). Nothing else makes sense. That said, it'll all be ok if Whaley is right and Manuel has to come in and plays well. Then it's a good move, I guess.

One other thing: I'm a fan of keeping three real qbs on the roster. 2 just seems like really shaky roster management to me given injuries.

If they thought EJ had improved then why resign Cassel and make him #2. Why not just make EJ #2 from the point Cassel was cut. That's where they ended up anyways. They must figure Cassel was better than EJ, but neither are good enough to win this year so try to get something for one of them. They're all in on Taylor. If he tanks then so does the season.

Meh won't be here to guide us to 8-8 if Ej and TT are hurt.

 

Dooomed!!

[CodeMonkey]

it is a business. Do you honestly think a business cares about your personal life?

Some do. And in fact that's one of the things the Pegula's have been praised for.

[Coach Tuesday]

Here's another idea: maybe this is as much about a lack of faith in the o-line than about having renewed faith in EJ. Through two games it's clear that this offensive line is going to be a work in progress and the QB behind it is going to have to be able to improvise and move. Cassel would be a dead duck back there.

[Nanker]

Maybe it's a double-secret probation hush-hush behind closed doors deal they had with Dallas after we scarfed up their prize backup (Snortin' Orton) after he "retired" from Jurruh's team last year. They didn't sue The Bills, but they made it clear that we owed them a favor.

[/shades of the Chris Speilman trade]

Edited September 24, 2015 by Nanker

[dave mcbride]

question: which is heavier ? ....a 2016 5th round choice or a 2017 5th round choice.....

 

 

answer : they weigh the same

No, that's actually not true, at least according to NFL GMs. Picks that come later chronologically are discounted, because the likelihood the GM/coach stay with the team decreases from year to year. Given the turnover in the Bills front office in the last decade and a half and the alleged shakiness of Whaley's situation at the end of the 2014 season, that's not a factor to be discounted. Ask any GM whether they'd rather have a 2016 5th round pick or a 2017 5th round pick, and 32 out of 32 would tell you that they'd take the 2016 pick.

[Doc]

One thing's for certain. Matt Cassel is not winning any games for The Buffalo Bills this year - or next.

 

Sounds like M. C. was pissed that he didn't get the starter spot. Maybe he advocated for the trade. He was t going to start here, and he might have a much better shot of doing that in Dallas.

 

What would The Bills of the 80s and 90s have done IF Kelly AND Reich went down with injuries for an extended time?

 

#Rogue is rolling the dice! Riverboat Gambler! Let's hope for positive results.

 

Go Bills!

 

Gale Gilbert. But the odds of the Bills having to go to their 3rd QB are slim. The only time I can remember it happening was 2013, but both top-2 QB's (Kolb, EJ) got injured in pre-season.

 

If they thought EJ had improved then why resign Cassel and make him #2. Why not just make EJ #2 from the point Cassel was cut. That's where they ended up anyways. They must figure Cassel was better than EJ, but neither are good enough to win this year so try to get something for one of them. They're all in on Taylor. If he tanks then so does the season.

 

The only thing I can think is they signed/re-signed him for his experience, but saw that it meant little in the 2 games so far, so when they had an opportunity to trade him and at least get something for him, no matter how miniscule, they jumped at it. He hasn't played well on the field for years, not to mention hasn't stayed healthy.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Gale Gilbert. But the odds of the Bills having to go to their 3rd QB are slim. The only time I can remember it happening was 2013, but both top-2 QB's (Kolb, EJ) got injured in pre-season.

 

 

The only thing I can think is they signed/re-signed him for his experience, but saw that it meant little in the 2 games so far, so when they had an opportunity to trade him and at least get something for him, no matter how miniscule, they jumped at it. He hasn't played well on the field for years, not to mention hasn't stayed healthy.

 

Tell that to Bruce Arians and the Cardinals who were Super Bowl contenders last season until Carson Palmer and then Drew Stanton went down. It's definitely a calculated risk on the part of Whaley. Here's to good health (and good play of course) for Tyrod.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

Tell that to Bruce Arians and the Cardinals who were Super Bowl contenders last season until Carson Palmer and then Drew Stanton went down. It's definitely a calculated risk on the part of Whaley. Here's to good health (and good play of course) for Tyrod.

 

Maybe - but let's face it, by the time you're on your third QB your playoff and Superbowl odds are almost nonexistent. At that point you're playing for next year anyway.

[HamSandwhich]

Who was it in the press conference that kept pressing Rex for why he let Cassel go and now is ok with EJ being #2?