Fred Says Whaley Dishonest With Him

[YoloinOhio]

And let's all be honest - the upset with this is less that it was done than how it was done. If it was done with a press conference and a nod to how much Fred's meant to Buffalo, and given him a chance to say goodbye, people would be a lot more accepting. Instead, it was an unceremonious first-round preseason cut. That bugs a lot of people.

well, they did have a press conference with a nod to everything he meant to the team and the city. But, he wasn't there. What we don't know is if he was asked to attend and chose not to. I don't blame him, if so. He probably wasn't ready and they had to do it quick. The cuts that take place in March are more contrived it seems and consist of more aging vets and you see more public good byes.

[Lurker]

 

You responded directly to me:

 

 

 

 

 

 

And then of course in this very post to which I'm currently responding:

 

"I realize what your doing, of course. It fits the narrative I outlined perfectly."

 

All except for the bold

 

EDIT: unless, of course, I missed the apology

PSA. Wouldn't it just be easier to put this guy on ignore and reduce the wasted space in this thread? I know he has some mild entertainment value. But think of the lost productivity and wasted server space tied up in responding over and over to his 'tin foil hat' arguments...

[negativo]

 

You responded directly to me:

 

And then of course in this very post to which I'm currently responding:

 

"I realize what your doing, of course. It fits the narrative I outlined perfectly."

 

All except for the bold

 

I do tend to directly respond to people who address me directly. Is that wrong? I'm sure Whaley is proud to see how fiercely you are willing to defend him, even if it requires misrepresent my words to fit the narrative. As far as the narrative, could you have more perfectly stepped in it? None of this has to do with me calling everyone a shill, and, in fact, I've never outright called you one either.

 

I have only asked people to make up their own minds. However, feel free to keep reaching for something to "get me" with. I'm beginning to enjoy this.

 

Or, just stick to the topic and leave me be.

[Kelly the Dog]

I dunno maybe I missed something here if Karlos Williams beat out Fred for the #2 job. Hasn't he been injured since that first pre season game in which he had 14 rushes for 40 yards 1 TD (a 2.9 (YPC avg)?

 

Now Bryce Brown had 6 rushes for 52 yards 1 TD (a 8.7 YPC avg), and then neither played in the next two games.

 

At this point I'm thinking Dixon gets the start if McCoy can't play week one, and Brown is his backup with Williams still recovering from his mysterious groin area injury.

 

Releasing Fred with Shady questionable for the opener makes even less sense now then it did when it happened.

 

Not a good way to start the season, Whaley effed up the JuJu

 

There were a few different reports that Karlos had passed Fred or was about to pass Fred as the #2 following the first preseason game. And that he was getting first team reps when McCoy was out or given a breather.

[The Big Cat]

I agree with you. They bumbled the handling of it. It's the first player like this Whaley has had to let go I think, so hopefully they learn from it and leave the door open for Freddie to retire a bill.

 

They bumbled nothing. It was handled the same way the big boys handle these things. See: New England, Pittsburgh (ahem).

[YoloinOhio]

PSA. Wouldn't it just be easier to put this guy on ignore and reduce the wasted space in this thread? I know he has some mild entertainment value. But think of the lost productivity and wasted server space tied up in responding over and over to his 'tin foil hat' arguments...

i put him on ignore days ago but still see his nonsense when quoted

[Nihilarian]

And let's all be honest - the upset with this is less that it was done than how it was done. If it was done with a press conference and a nod to how much Fred's meant to Buffalo, and given him a chance to say goodbye, people would be a lot more accepting. Instead, it was an unceremonious first-round preseason cut. That bugs a lot of people.

Yep!

 

Probably the most beloved player since the Thurman-Kelly- Bruce Days, and the way it went down just wasn't right. From what I read Whaley didn't give Fred the option of taking less money or even asking if he were willing to retire.

[26CornerBlitz]

And let's all be honest - the upset with this is less that it was done than how it was done. If it was done with a press conference and a nod to how much Fred's meant to Buffalo, and given him a chance to say goodbye, people would be a lot more accepting. Instead, it was an unceremonious first-round preseason cut. That bugs a lot of people.

IMO, that kind of send off would be appropriate in the offseason. I wouldn't have done anything like that just before the season with Fred still having the desire to continue playing.

[YoloinOhio]

Yep!

 

Probably the most beloved player since the Thurman-Kelly- Bruce Days, and the way it went down just wasn't right. From what I read Whaley didn't give Fred the option of taking less money or even asking if he were willing to retire.

it was reported that he was asked to restructure in March. And it was well known to us he was not willing to retire, so I expect it was well known to the team as well.

[Nihilarian]

There were a few different reports that Karlos had passed Fred or was about to pass Fred as the #2 following the first preseason game. And that he was getting first team reps when McCoy was out or given a breather.

Maybe its just me, but that seems to difficult to believe after one bad showing in one pre season game along with some limited camp time. Seems like wishful thinking. Sure hope Karlos Williams lives up to this.

[Snorom]

Yep!

 

Probably the most beloved player since the Thurman-Kelly- Bruce Days, and the way it went down just wasn't right. From what I read Whaley didn't give Fred the option of taking less money or even asking if he were willing to retire.

 

and what would it of mattered if he took less money. You have younger talented backs on the roster that need ot be here for the long haul

 

 

it was the right decision to be made, and no matter how it was made a bunch of irrational fans would of reacted the same way regardless

[GG]

Just to be clear that isn't what I am saying at all. All that I was saying is that the Bills didn't do what they are supposed. They either didnt communicate or didn't execute. These things are developed together.

I thought you are quite clear on your posts. People just don't want to acknowledge it though.

[thebandit27]

PSA. Wouldn't it just be easier to put this guy on ignore and reduce the wasted space in this thread? I know he has some mild entertainment value. But think of the lost productivity and wasted server space tied up in responding over and over to his 'tin foil hat' arguments...

 

True...it would waste less space. As a rule, I don't put people on ignore--I feel like that's too final.

 

I will, however, stop responding to what's become something of an obvious distraction to sane discussion.

 

i put him on ignore days ago but still see his nonsense when quoted

 

My apologies Yolo; I won't force you to read it anymore.

[MyDogLuvsPB]

@ByTimGraham: Bills organization will remain unified when speaking publicly, but two sources tell me Doug Whaley went rogue in cutting Fred Jackson.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with cutting him but the thing is if it was done to make room for Bryce Brown, then there is a huge problem! Brown has done nothing but hurt the franchise by his stupidity since he got there. As long as he doesn't make the 53 man roster I'm ok with what the GM did.

[Nihilarian]

it was reported that he was asked to restructure in March. And it was well known to us he was not willing to retire, so I expect it was well known to the team as well.

I dunno Yolo you would expect all that to be discussed when they sit down to turn in the playbook / iPad / tablet or whatever it is now. At least I would expect that for the third leading rusher in Buffalo Bills history behind only Thurman and OJ.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I used to work at M&T with a bit of my time devoted towards advising the marketing dept.. Let me tell ya... Ray Rice was the face of M&T in Baltimore.. That caused a much bigger problem for the bank than this move... This is a matter of redoing print rather than apologizing to the public

 

Yup, in fact, with the right "spin" it happens to be an ad man's wettest wet dream, to tag someone as the center of an ad campaign just while that someone surfs up a wave of public interest and sentiment

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with cutting him but the thing is if it was done to make room for Bryce Brown, then there is a huge problem! Brown has done nothing but hurt the franchise by his stupidity since he got there. As long as he doesn't make the 53 man roster I'm ok with what the GM did.

 

Brown has fumbled once in the regular season and it was bad, and he got called out for it and called again when he fumbled in PS. He either fixes his problem or byebye. And it may be byebye anyway, I don't think anyone considers him a sure roster bet (except the Whaley's Ego Conspiracy Theorists).

 

What exactly else has he done? You make it sound like he was caught down on Chippewa buying weed which he paid for by $20 bills ripped from ladies in bars then struck a pregnant woman holding hot soup and a baby as he drag-raced off.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Hopeful

[YoloinOhio]

Maybe its just me, but that seems to difficult to believe after one bad showing in one pre season game along with some limited camp time. Seems like wishful thinking. Sure hope Karlos Williams lives up to this.

karlos had 3 weeks of camp and returned yesterday. He missed 2 weeks. You think he had a bad showing in the preseason game?

I dunno Yolo you would expect all that to be discussed when they sit down to turn in the playbook / iPad / tablet or whatever it is now. At least I would expect that for the third leading rusher in Buffalo Bills history behind only Thurman and OJ.

i am sure Whaley was aware he wanted to play 3 more years as he has stated

[BillsVet]

 

 

It just makes me laugh that there is always a contingent that has to have a fall guy that needs to blame someone for everything and grind that ax non stop

 

I love Whaley as our GM. He makes bold moves and has definitely helped make this team much better is short time. I don't expect perfection but I'm enjoying what I see on the field compared to what we had pre Whaley

 

If by short time you mean 3 years than yeah, Whaley's made them better. All the way from a 6 win team in 2012 (the year before he became GM) to essentially 8 wins in 2014.

 

I'm not sure why you wouldn't expect some measure of criticism on the top personnel guy after this fact.

 

 

More savvy - how? He cut an expensive aging vet they didn't want to bring to camp - except for the owner - in the first place....

 

Fred gets butthurt - shocker

 

Except it's not that black and white. You can choose to believe that to fit your opinion or look beyond the surface to understand other issues are in play here.

Edited September 2, 2015 by BillsVet

[Lurker]

I thought you are quite clear on your posts. People just don't want to acknowledge it though.

OK. I acknowledge that Russ Brandon should have been talked to. Happy? Can we sing kumbaya and roast S'moor's around the campfire now?

 

But in the grand scheme of things it's like saying 'bad boy' to Pegs dog for crapping on the floor. You clean up the poop and move on.

 

Graham elevating it into some wild conspiracy / dysfunctional front office "story" is the only thing rouge about the whole affair...

[NoSaint]

 

You responded directly to me:

 

 

 

 

 

 

And then of course in this very post to which I'm currently responding:

 

"I realize what your doing, of course. It fits the narrative I outlined perfectly."

 

 

All except for the bold

 

EDIT: unless, of course, I missed the apology

hes accused everyone, and no one.... obviously.

[thebandit27]

hes accused everyone, and no one.... obviously.

 

My brief stint of letting the screwiness of it distract me from participating in actual discussion has passed.

[DrDawkinstein]

And let's all be honest - the upset with this is less that it was done than how it was done. If it was done with a press conference and a nod to how much Fred's meant to Buffalo, and given him a chance to say goodbye, people would be a lot more accepting. Instead, it was an unceremonious first-round preseason cut. That bugs a lot of people.

 

Sincere question to not only Tom, but all the other expert folks here with a lot of football history and knowledge:

 

Has anything like that EVER been done over a first-round preseason cut before? Or any cut?

 

It's one thing if the player chooses to retire, but I cant recall any player that was given such a ceremony when they were cut, and there have certainly been bigger fan-favorites cut from other teams before.

[KOKBILLS]

 

They bumbled nothing. It was handled the same way the big boys handle these things. See: New England, Pittsburgh (ahem).

 

Exactly...

[Gugny]

Just checking back to see if Bandit was still harassing Negativo. F5!

[KD in CA]

 

They bumbled nothing. It was handled the same way the big boys handle these things. See: New England, Pittsburgh (ahem).

 

Exactly. Still waiting for an explanation for how they should have 'handled it".

Just checking back to see if Bandit was still harassing Negativo. F5!

 

Now negativo is a victim?? LOL!!

[Lurker]

 

 

Now negativo is a victim?? LOL!!

Build a bully...

[GG]

 

My brief stint of letting the screwiness of it distract me from participating in actual discussion has passed.

And therein is the irony what should have been an ordinary player move probably turned into a big distraction inside OBD.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

They bumbled nothing. It was handled the same way the big boys handle these things. See: New England, Pittsburgh (ahem).

Indy had a presser for Peyton. No not the same but fjax is probably as iconic a guy as they've had over the past decade. The post cut spin is the bumbling part. The action itself makes sense they just hosed up the tearful sales job to the base.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's a fine analogy. Not all analogies are meant to mirror the entire situation, some are to shed light on one specific, often nuanced, aspect of it.

 

It compares someone doing his job, with potential fall-out (Whaley, GM: it's his job to make roster cuts, which is alleged to have potentially messed up an advertiser by a member of the news media) with a radio station manager doing something underhanded and dishonest (instructing his DJs to trash an advertiser they dislike on-air).

 

Unless by "fine analogy" you mean "not comparable at all", I don't see how it can rationally be called a fine analogy.

[Kelly the Dog]

Indy had a presser for Peyton. No not the same but fjax is probably as iconic a guy as they've had over the past decade. The post cut spin is the bumbling part. The action itself makes sense they just hosed up the tearful sales job to the base.

Frankly I think a press conference would have been embarrassing to Fred. He was released because the GM and HC didn't think he was good enough anymore to hold a spot on the roster for the money they were paying him and because of a rookie 5th round pick.

 

Peyton was being replaced by the best QB prospect in history and everyone knew this was the best thing for Manning.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

http://buckyandsully.buffalonews.com/2015/09/02/jackson-blindsided-but-hell-be-fine/

 

It was Whaley. Happy now?

 

 

 

WGR has been adamant since Rex got hired that rex calls the shots. Now the National Enquirer, I mean Buffalo News, claims Whaley went rogue. What's next? Terry and Kim are personal friends with Zenu the interplanetary leader of Scientology and they're gonna hire him to secretly call plays on game day?

 

The Buffalo News (via Bucky, linked above) is claiming that Whaley followed his job description (control 53 man roster). Graham has seemingly stepped away from his "rogue" claim, admitting Rex and the Pegulas knew.

[KD in CA]

Frankly I think a press conference would have been embarrassing to Fred. He was released because the GM and HC didn't think he was good enough anymore to hold a spot on the roster for the money they were paying him and because of a rookie 5th round pick.

 

Peyton was being replaced by the best QB prospect in history and everyone knew this was the best thing for Manning.

 

Not to mention Manning is a first ballot HOF, SB champ, holder of a bunch of all-time records, etc. It's a pretty absurd comparison.

[Gugny]

Indy had a presser for Peyton. No not the same but fjax is probably as iconic a guy as they've had over the past decade. The post cut spin is the bumbling part. The action itself makes sense they just hosed up the tearful sales job to the base.

 

Peyton Manning led the Colts to the promised land.

 

Fred Jackson led the ... well he played .... he ran for .... well, it's just not the same.

[Agent 91]

I actually hate that remark, because the pulse and "emotion" of a locker room is very important for success. Ask the Dolphins.

Plenty of emotion in that locker room. This team has passion. This team has guys who pep players. This team will overcome fred... you see Kyle williams locker room talk last year? There are plenty of guys on this team to pass the torch to. Its not Fred, i get it... the common fan got attached. My question... we let Fred play 1 more year. Cool. But this man wants to play at least 3 more? We have to draw the line somewhere. This isnt the ralphies where there is a boatload of money to spend on any jobber like we did last year... this was a concerted effort by WHALEY and Pegula to put the BEST 53 in a jersey. Fred was 3 on the depth chart I am sure. And we still have Dareus Bradham and yeah said it... GILMORE to deal with. Every little bit helps.

[BackInDaDay]

i love Fred as a football player, but i have to think his value to Roman was decreased when Taylor was named the starter over Manuel, and especially, Cassel. with less need for a savvy pass_protector/safety_valve guy, the feeling may have been that the other guys could hit the inside stuff harder, and get to the edge quicker. not sure if whaley isn't taking one for the team, here.

[TheFunPolice]

Maybe Whaley decided to assert himself after a whole off season of appearing to work for Rex?

[FireChan]

Plenty of emotion in that locker room. This team has passion. This team has guys who pep players. This team will overcome fred... you see Kyle williams locker room talk last year? There are plenty of guys on this team to pass the torch to. Its not Fred, i get it... the common fan got attached. My question... we let Fred play 1 more year. Cool. But this man wants to play at least 3 more? We have to draw the line somewhere. This isnt the ralphies where there is a boatload of money to spend on any jobber like we did last year... this was a concerted effort by WHALEY and Pegula to put the BEST 53 in a jersey. Fred was 3 on the depth chart I am sure. And we still have Dareus Bradham and yeah said it... GILMORE to deal with. Every little bit helps.

We will see if they do.

[Snorom]

We will see if they do.

of course they will .. Fred had little impact the last few years

[The Big Cat]

 

Not to mention Manning is a first ballot HOF, SB champ, holder of a bunch of all-time records, etc. It's a pretty absurd comparison.

 

 

 

Peyton Manning led the Colts to the promised land.

 

Fred Jackson led the ... well he played .... he ran for .... well, it's just not the same.

 

Yeah. It's a nice thought. But it's also ludicrous.

[FireChan]

of course they will .. Fred had little impact the last few years

No.