Enough incoherence/whining from WGR re: EJ

[Agent 91]

So what if EJ is the 3rd string QB this season?

 

Were they still wrong, biased, unfair, and dumb? Or would people then begin attacking Roman and Rex?

33% chance. Its not exactly a bold prediction.he has run with the 3s why is that implausible? And yes they are still slanted and they are still dumb. I predicted Eric Berry was gonna go to KC on draft day and i have documented on here that we were taking John Miller in rd 3. Im not leroi and i have no inside connections. But even a garbage can gets a steak. You keep fishing you are bound to get something right. At some point. What makes them an authority? Why should we think anything else of them for pointing out the obvious... now if they predicted EJ or Matt Simms was gonna be the starter and THAT came to fruition... i would personally apologize to them and withdraw myself from TBD.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

That's because EJ sucked and he deserves the criticism. He still hasn't developed like he should with the natural abilities he possesses. Quit trying to play the bias card when most everyone knows that there is a REASON why two coaching staffs have now placed EJ in a non-starting role. What must it take for you EJ apologists to get it?

But Cassel has doesn't have any negatives in his background? People are not apologizing for EJ ... please point to all the EJ should be the starter posts. They are talking, especially in this discussion, about how bias the media in there coverage of him.

Edited August 26, 2015 by A Dog Named Kelso

[metzelaars_lives]

 

 

You obviously have a stake in being proven right about your feeling the EJ is not going to happen.

 

Your zeal for the inverse is the same as those who want Tebow or EJ to succeed.

Nope. I would love to eat my words on EJ. My stake lies simply in rooting for the Bills. That's it. I'm not flying from Denver to Buffalo for three home games this year to root against EJ.

[PolishDave]

The only time, and I mean only time, that I listen to WGR is when I want to hear post-game comments from coaches/players, or when I'm listening to play-by-play since I cannot watch the game.

 

There is absolutely no other reason to do so...I cannot fathom why anyone does.

Yes agreed.

 

This forum actually has the best back and forth Bills talk that I have found anywhere. I wish it was available in audio format on WGR in the 3-7pm time slot.

[PlayoffsPlease]

Why does any fan of the team care what the name of the starting QB is?

[The Wiz]

Why does any fan of the team care what the name of the starting QB is?

because there is about 5% of the TBD population that needs to say, "I TOLD YOU SO!" Another 5% to carry on the hated for said starter and the rest of us will watch while we cheer and complain like normal fans until the next qb competition. Edited August 26, 2015 by The Wiz

[3rdand12]

Yes agreed.

 

This forum actually has the best back and forth Bills talk that I have found anywhere. I wish it was available in audio format on WGR in the 3-7pm time slot.

now that would be something

[harv shitz]

I don't listen to Schopp anymore. He's brutal.

I never did like him. I thought he was an arrogant D-bag the first time I ever heard him. Now, years later, I still feel the same way I did years ago.

 

He likes a good discussion, so he states, but I never hear him have a discussion with anyone, because he is so condescending to everyone who even bothers to call in. I have listened to him a little bit lately, after a near 3 year hiatus, mostly because I want to listen to Bills talk, and I can listen during the time he is on. I so wish we had an alternative to him and his boorish attitude.

[dubs]

 

 

What don't you get about this? These call in shows are this way by design. Look at the biggest in the industry--like WFAN, who at one point employed two of the dumbest guys in sports radio on the same show (they still employ one of them). The WANT guys like you and OC to get all hot and bothered about their dumb talent's dumb comments. They know you're listening and that's all that matters.

 

And do you really think a Buffalo pizza log company and a liquor store are NOT going to advertise on a channel like WGR...ever? Only prohibitively high ad rates would keep these companies off the channel. They don't care what you think about what Bulldog thinks about EJ Manuel...

And do you really think a Buffalo pizza log company and a liquor store are NOT going to advertise on a channel like WGR...ever?

 

Haha!! That's awesome. Top 10 comment I've seen on here. Bravo!

[3rdand12]

Why does any fan of the team care what the name of the starting QB is?

we all want to win and we all have an opinion about how to do that> thats okay. as long as that is understood going in.

 

 

No right no wrong.

 

well some wrong.

 

okay quite a bit wrong'

 

okay WTF is with people!

 

IDIOTS !

DC TOM was RIGHT

[The Wiz]

now that would be something

Would probably be along the lines of when celebrities do ask me anything's on Reddit but bills related. I could get into that.

I never did like him. I thought he was an arrogant D-bag the first time I ever heard him. Now, years later, I still feel the same way I did years ago.

 

He likes a good discussion, so he states, but I never hear him have a discussion with anyone, because he is so condescending to everyone who even bothers to call in. I have listened to him a little bit lately, after a near 3 year hiatus, mostly because I want to listen to Bills talk, and I can listen during the time he is on. I so wish we had an alternative to him and his boorish attitude.

His good discussions are usually farfetched topics that are out of his league or the caller agrees with him and backs up his point.

we all want to win and we all have an opinion about how to do that> thats okay. as long as that is understood going in.

 

 

No right no wrong.

 

well some wrong.

 

okay quite a bit wrong'

 

okay WTF is with people!

 

IDIOTS !

DC TOM was RIGHT

You had me hooked until the end and then turned it into a M. Night Shamalamadingdong movie.

[3rdand12]

Would probably be along the lines of when celebrities do ask me anything's on Reddit but bills related. I could get into that.

His good discussions are usually farfetched topics that are out of his league or the caller agrees with him and backs up his point.

You had me hooked until the end and then turned it into a M. Night Shamalamadingdong movie.

 

oops!

Never been a good closer in the ninth inning.

working on it.

 

not even a little scary?

[Mr. WEO]

And do you really think a Buffalo pizza log company and a liquor store are NOT going to advertise on a channel like WGR...ever?

 

Haha!! That's awesome. Top 10 comment I've seen on here. Bravo!

 

 

I know, it does seem an absurd sentence to type.

 

Friggin "pizza log" company.....

[dubs]

 

 

I know, it does seem an absurd sentence to type.

 

Friggin "pizza log" company.....

Great stuff.

 

It's all..about...the sauce...

 

Ok Radio Boy?

[TSOL]

 

 

I know, it does seem an absurd sentence to type.

 

Friggin "pizza log" company.....

Its not just a friggin' pizza log company, its THE friggin' official pizza log of the Buffalo Bills AND Buffalo Sabres company

[jester43]

I have listened to WGR very sparingly over the last week, however, each and every time I have I heard the same 4-5 statements made by multiple hosts, with regard to their coverage of EJ this preseason.

 

These statements are either bereft of logic, or, on par with the whining of a 2nd grader. Once again I heard Jeremy White re-hash this crap this morning, and normally I wouldn't care, but, enough is enough. So let's get to it:

 

1. "We have been getting emails and tweets that our coverage has been biased against EJ"

 

You don't say? Well, this morining Sal Capaccio said "We aren't as bad off at QB as was expected. It's a tribute to Greg Roman being able to get these QBs ready to play....EVEN EJ." Ah, when you say schit like this, what, exactly, do you expect listeners to conclude?

 

Hey WGR? Fans have observed a clear pattern of behavior from you. Why the F else are you getting the response? Mass Hysteria? A conspiracy to troll you? No. You are causing this problem with comments like that, and instead of introspection, it's blame the fans?

 

I literally heard...what you say you aren't doing...in 2 separate instances this MORNING!, never mind this past week.

 

I like Sal, but, Sal? You chose those words, not the fans. Why throw in the "...even EJ"? Greg Roman has done a good job with all 3 QBs. Well, that is supposedly Sal's premise. Greg Roman is being paid a compliment...so why is the "...even EJ" necessary? It is not. It's totally irrelevent...so why say it? Answer: bias, supporting the choice, made long ago, that EJ == Bad.

 

2. "Either we are liars, or, we don't know how to do our jobs".

 

Holy drama batman. Yes, arguing to the extreme isn't a logical fallacy or anything. Follow that link fellas.

 

Nobody is accusing you of being liars. Some of us have been accusing some of you of not doing your jobs for a decade+ (anybody want to have a meat draft? ) so this is nothing new, and not specific to EJ coverage.

 

The simple fact is that these aren't the only 2 outcomes, and to suggest otherwise is childish. There is all sorts of research that shows the influenece one person or group can have on others. Both confidence bias, and choice-supportive bias are very real, every day occurances that are much more likely to be the culprits here, than intentional deceit, conspiracy, or staggering incompetence. Groupthink is also infinitely more likely, especially in this case, since the QB issue is so acute. Everyone knows the problem, its importance, and thus fears making a mistake, and its consequences, as both will be maginfied. It's much safer, and natural, for everybody to run in the herd together, and nobody strays too far away. This is prime Groupthink territory. Do the reading.

 

So, please, enough with the incoherent emoting. Nobody is accusing you of anything...other than not seeing your own bias. And that's perfectly normal. IF you could see the bias, you wouldn't have it(unless you really did have an agenda).

 

In ALL cases, liar/incompetent aren't the only 2 possible outcomes. I'm not sure WGR's coverage is biased, because I haven't listened enough. But,it sure smells like it given what I've heard in the last 24, especially the statements I've bolded.

 

3. "We do this for a job"

 

What are we doing? Running through EVERY logical fallacy? Now it's Argument from Authority? Thus, this thread is necessary.

 

Do you really want to have this conversation? How about with X and Os, or draft, or other heavy content posters here? Why is it that every time I write a heavy content post here...my topic is discussed by WGR the next day?(Most recent example: 1985 Bears-->46 Defense == WGR articles and air devoted < 24 hours after my post.)

 

This is 2 Bills Drive, and I have news: WE do this for a job too, often 2-3x better than you, and have for years. The only real difference is that we don't get paid, and we aren't "required by our job to watch the Jets game where EJ was horrible". We'd do that anyway. The WGR host/reporter/contributor who thinks they can go toe to toe on Bills Football with any heavy duty poster here is fooling themselves.

 

According to some respected posters here: WGR has an anti-EJ bias. These people have a long history of being right about this team. WGR is just starting to get some football credibility with Sal Capaccio(ahem, see? I have no bias), who actually knows the Xs and Os well enough to discuss them(unlike others at WGR who refuse to learn the game, and defend that by telling us that Xs and Os are: boring...to Bills fans, of all people. /facepalm Hint: This is not Miami.)

 

WGR: You have a problem. Stop blaming others. Don't argue from authority. Especially when you haven't earned said authority. Your work has been shoddy at best...which...is WHY 2 Bills Drive exists.

 

4. "This is coming from some weird place amongst the fans".

 

Um no, the reason fans are saying WGR's coverage is biased: is because it's empirical.

 

Get over yourselves. Fans simply don't care that much about WGR. The notion that this started in some evil little corner of the internet/twitterverse, dedicated solely to the downfall of WGR, is patently retarded.

 

The fans are responding to: you, WGR. If you don't want to hear the calls and see the emails? Simple: clean up your act. Be conscious of the feedback, aware that you DO say things like "...even EJ"...and make the necessary corrections. Realize that people aren't pointing this out because there's something wrong with them. They are pointing it out because there's something wrong with you. As soon as your behavior changes, the response will change.

 

I am tired of the whining as well. You ARE getting paid to do a job. We AREN'T getting paid to listen to you. I am sick and tired of hearing you B word about doing a job you signed up for, and all that comes with it. Keep your whining to yourselves, look inside, realize you are the cause of your own problem, and, how's about resolving to do a better job?

 

Beats the hell out of more incoherent/weak arguments and whining.

 

5. My personal favorite "We are reading the TEA leaves from the coaches/We are merely reacting to what the coaches are saying"

 

Q1: Who asks the coaches the questions?

A1: The media.

C1: What the "coaches are saying" is driven mostly by the media's questions and how they are framed.

QED. The notion that the media is merely reacting in this situation, is patently retarded. Especially when we consider the fact that "reading the TEA leaves" is the basis for most of this analysis.

 

WGR: You are telling us that most of your work is based solely on interpretation....EVERYWHERE! Interpretation of what you see on the field, interpretation of what the coaches are saying, interpretation of how EJ answers the question "How do you expect things to go at your next team?" (No bias in that question at all)

 

NOTHING here is empirical. ALL is based on interpretation...and WGR people are trying to tell us that there's 0 chance for bias?

 

Here's what I do for a job: tell people like WGR that they are the opposite of right, because this environment is the MOST likely to produce bias. Enough delusion, dissonance, problem denial and shifting the blame to fans as though they are the cause.

 

Enough whining and blaming fans for merely responding to what they can clearly see is broken.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[PromoTheRobot]

So 15 years of not making the playoffs, and not acquiring a franchise QB since Kelly, and WGR is the problem? You don't want reporting, you want cheerleaders. Yeesh!

You want people who know something about the sports they cover.

[Mr. WEO]

Great stuff.

 

It's all..about...the sauce...

 

Ok Radio Boy?

 

 

The part where the public should pressure the advertisers (what, eat even fewer pizza logs than they already do?) only added the the goofiness of this thread.

 

You want people who know something about the sports they cover.

 

Listeners will never concede that the radio guy talk show guy knows more than them...

[Smiley Dear]

I still have this feeling that the bills look at EJ Manuel as their developmental player and that is why they are keeping 3.......

 

Cassell is a vet and Tyrod has more years in the NFL......so they are going with those two this year.........but I really think that if EJ can continue his progression (and say what you want....EJ HAS gotten better) that he might be in serious consideration next year.

This is my feeling as well. It would be absolutely asinine to bail on EJ now, which I'd what all those reporters keep saying is possible

[PastaJoe]

You want people who know something about the sports they cover.

Other than Schoop and the Bulldog, the morning crew and the reporters are knowledgable. But some don't like them because they make critical observations as opposed to being cheerleaders.

[OCinBuffalo]

To OC...i do believe in reading the tea leaves. When Rex says all three have a start cause EJ started the scrimmage....even a dolt like me says i can read that leaf!

 

and i am pretty damn sure not one person on here has seen even 1/10th of what Sal and JoeB and other media have seen from April on. These guys have been at every single practice...even the ones open in OTA's.

 

Truthfully OC, how many you been to?

I've been to 2 practices and was at the first game. But, your argument here is irrelevant: we are talking about specific, observed behavior by WGR. They've said it, and I'm nailing them for it. Interpreted opinion <> empirical data. Whether or not they are biased is its own, standalone issue. # of times at practice has 0 bearing on bias == one may attend 0, 1 or all of the Bills games and practices, and be biased, unbiased, or somewhere in the middle. Thus, your argument is irrelevant.

I just do not see how you anybody can claim the following 2 things

 

1) That the coaches have not clearly shown their preference for Tyrod and Matt based on playing rotation in practice and games. Further, when Rex says EJ has had his start in the scrimmage, i think we know where. his head is. That is not media bias, it is the situation.

 

2) believing that somehow what Mike Shoop says somehow has a bearing on Rex and company...just not buying it.

Easy: nobody I know of is claiming either one of those things. If they do, by all means, squish them.

I listen often and it seems to me that the whole EJ rant that has happened recently was in direct response to the fact that nearly 50% of the callers after the Browns game were calling in saying they want to see EJ with the starters and they were getting their shows derailed somewhat with a lot of clamoring for EJ to "get a shot."

 

It makes sense for them to not want to talk about this because EJ has become a non factor in the competition to be the starter and people just can't seem to come to grips with it.

 

The interesting discussion is Cassel vs Tyrod. Not whether or not EJ makes the team or has been slighted in some way. As a listener, i don't want to hear about EJ Manuel. He is the 3rd QB in one of the worst QB situations in the NFL.

 

So when they are saying "read the tea leaves," they are saying "please, its over with Manuel. Move on. Stop calling about EJ Manuel."

They also had a poll where almost 60% voted that EJ should get a shot with the 1st team. They didn't like the results.

The customers, by 2-1 want to talk about EJ, yet, because BrooklynBills and the minority don't want to talk about a topic, the majority has to put up with that? Um, no. That's not how life works. And, again, nobody is forcing these people to work at WGR. How can they claim to be impartial, competent observers and then throw a hissy fit, at the same time?

The crow is on the grill at this point. It's just a matter of who gets the platter.

 

IF EJ ends up starting week 1 all of the beat reporters, hosts, and commentators on WGR are going to look really, really bad. I mean the "they could not be more wrong" kind of bad.

 

If not then all of these people who are hell-bent on EJ "getting a chance" (as if he has never had one here) are going to have to accept that there was no vast media conspiracy, and the seeming coordination was just a consensus of what was obvious.

Again, that's not what this thread is about, and, again, I don't see only 2 ultimate outcomes here. There's a time for absolutes, and clearly, given "tea leaves" being involved here, this is not it!

This whole topic is a laugh. All worked up over "even EJ". It should dawn at some point on the OP that WGR has manipulated him exactly as it planned to---with predictable but favorable results for them. They love hate, and suckers bring it every day...

Yeah, that's what happened. I believe there's empirical evidence below that directly contradicts you. But, I don't want to spoil the surprise. I will say: nobody gets more butthurt than WEO when I write thread a lot of posters like.

So is there just a massive conspiracy here to undermine EJ Manuel? Could be, I don't know. I will insert my first opinion in this post and say that I actually don't mind Schopp at all and that if EJ Manuel fails it definitely will not be Mike Schopp's fault.

----

STOP TRYING TO MAKE EJ HAPPEN. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Um I specifically said there is no massive conspiracy. Nobody cares whether you, or I, like Schopp or not in this thread. It's not what it's about. I don't have to like bad behavior, because I like the person responsible. More incoherence: you're defending bad behavior with a strawman. Nobody here thinks that if EJ fails/succeeds, it will have anything to do with Schopp.

 

Christ, when will the incoherence end?

And yeah awesome to see the thread calling for an end of whining on wgr, ends up with guys whining about Ej supportors

Ah HA! You've caught me. Yes, one of the hoped for outcomes of this thread...is precisely what you've identified. I was thinking it would come out later, actually. But, yeah, there is great irony here. Whining about doing a job you get paid to do. Whining about EJ supporters, and then ignoring every bad thing Taylor does. Whining when objective analysis, using WGRs own words against them, reveals a whole new level of irony.

Schoop, about 25 mins ago did refer to yesterdays show as being a disaster, and i did hear about 30 mins of the show yesterday and it was, it was an unmitigated disaester.

 

Tho OP did bring up some great points, even though it read like a college thesis, and i fell asleep halfway through it. I did finsh the other half though, after i woke up and made a pot of coffee

OH NOES WEO!

 

Yeah, I'm the one being manipulated here. Once again we see that it's the other way around. No. I've found on 3 separate occaisions, when I go all out, "college thesis" style (If they only knew, right PPP?) on WGR...that there are instant behavior changes.

 

This is merely the 4th time over the last 10 years. I didn't even listen today. But, that was intentional. Why? Because I KNEW something like the above would be posted, and that I could use it. It's merely the same pattern as always. I haven't looked at this board all day, and didn't start writing this until midnight.

 

How's that for predictable, WEO? You keep telling yourself you're flying above everybody on this board...in your helicopter. Meanwhile, I'll keep flying above you in my jet.

The WANT guys like you and OC to get all hot and bothered about their dumb talent's dumb comments. They know you're listening and that's all that matters.

Funny. I don't feel hot or bothered. In fact, once again, I'm LMFAO.

 

Once again, you have things exactly backwards. All I have to do is write a 10 minute, albeit "college thesis" style post, and I can force WGR's capitulation. Let me say it correctly for you: They know all of us are listening, and if they behave poorly, any of us can write a thread that forces them to correct, provided that thread is quality, and THAT is all that matters.

 

EDIT: They are reading what we say here, just as much as we are listening. They are able to get what they want, sure, but, so are we.

 

------

 

For the rest of you keep these 3 things in mind:

 

1. I specifically said "I'm not sure if WGR's coverage is biased". I haven't attended them enough. However, a large group of fans have paid attention to WGR, and have drawn this conclusion. What I do know: WGR's responses to that conclusion in the last 48 are typical of those who are, in fact, biased. I've lived this. I know it when I see it.

 

2. I want the Bills to win the SB. Period. However we get there is however we get there. I root for the side of the helmet, not the back of the jersey, just like the vast majority of Bills fans. None of this has anything to do with recognizing a wacky pattern of behavior from the media. I haven't been able to change my avatar for years, which annoys me, because I KNEW the day EJ was drafted that we'd see a ton of wacky behavior. When it ends? I can go back to having fun with my avatar.

 

3. You don't have to be an EJ supporter to recognize that something wacky is going on. I am a Bills supporter, and will cheer for whoever the QB is. I trust the coaching staff/GM of this team fully(finally, after many years). They have earned that trust: Jerry Hughes trade anyone? Trust is not about me expecting them to be perfect. Trust is about knowing that they will recognize their mistakes when they make them, and move quickly to rectify(such as bringing in Cassel and Taylor) them.

 

WGR is currently(or was) doing the opposite: refusing to even consider that they are making mistakes, blaming everyone else, and/or trying to pretend that they are beset by conspiracy theorists, when in reality, they are only beset by their own bad choices.

Edited August 26, 2015 by OCinBuffalo

[Big Blitz]

Mike Schopp....back when he started with WNSA (that correct?) during the whole Flutie--Johnson debate, sided strongly with Johnson. As did most of the Buffalo media.

 

All you need to know.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I have listened to WGR very sparingly over the last week, however, each and every time I have I heard the same 4-5 statements made by multiple hosts, with regard to their coverage of EJ this preseason.

 

These statements are either bereft of logic, or, on par with the whining of a 2nd grader. Once again I heard Jeremy White re-hash this crap this morning, and normally I wouldn't care, but, enough is enough. So let's get to it:

 

1. "We have been getting emails and tweets that our coverage has been biased against EJ"

 

You don't say? Well, this morining Sal Capaccio said "We aren't as bad off at QB as was expected. It's a tribute to Greg Roman being able to get these QBs ready to play....EVEN EJ." Ah, when you say schit like this, what, exactly, do you expect listeners to conclude?

 

Hey WGR? Fans have observed a clear pattern of behavior from you. Why the F else are you getting the response? Mass Hysteria? A conspiracy to troll you? No. You are causing this problem with comments like that, and instead of introspection, it's blame the fans?

 

I literally heard...what you say you aren't doing...in 2 separate instances this MORNING!, never mind this past week.

 

I like Sal, but, Sal? You chose those words, not the fans. Why throw in the "...even EJ"? Greg Roman has done a good job with all 3 QBs. Well, that is supposedly Sal's premise. Greg Roman is being paid a compliment...so why is the "...even EJ" necessary? It is not. It's totally irrelevent...so why say it? Answer: bias, supporting the choice, made long ago, that EJ == Bad.

 

2. "Either we are liars, or, we don't know how to do our jobs".

 

Holy drama batman. Yes, arguing to the extreme isn't a logical fallacy or anything. Follow that link fellas.

 

Nobody is accusing you of being liars. Some of us have been accusing some of you of not doing your jobs for a decade+ (anybody want to have a meat draft? ) so this is nothing new, and not specific to EJ coverage.

 

The simple fact is that these aren't the only 2 outcomes, and to suggest otherwise is childish. There is all sorts of research that shows the influenece one person or group can have on others. Both confidence bias, and choice-supportive bias are very real, every day occurances that are much more likely to be the culprits here, than intentional deceit, conspiracy, or staggering incompetence. Groupthink is also infinitely more likely, especially in this case, since the QB issue is so acute. Everyone knows the problem, its importance, and thus fears making a mistake, and its consequences, as both will be maginfied. It's much safer, and natural, for everybody to run in the herd together, and nobody strays too far away. This is prime Groupthink territory. Do the reading.

 

So, please, enough with the incoherent emoting. Nobody is accusing you of anything...other than not seeing your own bias. And that's perfectly normal. IF you could see the bias, you wouldn't have it(unless you really did have an agenda).

 

In ALL cases, liar/incompetent aren't the only 2 possible outcomes. I'm not sure WGR's coverage is biased, because I haven't listened enough. But,it sure smells like it given what I've heard in the last 24, especially the statements I've bolded.

 

3. "We do this for a job"

 

What are we doing? Running through EVERY logical fallacy? Now it's Argument from Authority? Thus, this thread is necessary.

 

Do you really want to have this conversation? How about with X and Os, or draft, or other heavy content posters here? Why is it that every time I write a heavy content post here...my topic is discussed by WGR the next day?(Most recent example: 1985 Bears-->46 Defense == WGR articles and air devoted < 24 hours after my post.)

 

This is 2 Bills Drive, and I have news: WE do this for a job too, often 2-3x better than you, and have for years. The only real difference is that we don't get paid, and we aren't "required by our job to watch the Jets game where EJ was horrible". We'd do that anyway. The WGR host/reporter/contributor who thinks they can go toe to toe on Bills Football with any heavy duty poster here is fooling themselves.

 

According to some respected posters here: WGR has an anti-EJ bias. These people have a long history of being right about this team. WGR is just starting to get some football credibility with Sal Capaccio(ahem, see? I have no bias), who actually knows the Xs and Os well enough to discuss them(unlike others at WGR who refuse to learn the game, and defend that by telling us that Xs and Os are: boring...to Bills fans, of all people. /facepalm Hint: This is not Miami.)

 

WGR: You have a problem. Stop blaming others. Don't argue from authority. Especially when you haven't earned said authority. Your work has been shoddy at best...which...is WHY 2 Bills Drive exists.

 

4. "This is coming from some weird place amongst the fans".

 

Um no, the reason fans are saying WGR's coverage is biased: is because it's empirical.

 

Get over yourselves. Fans simply don't care that much about WGR. The notion that this started in some evil little corner of the internet/twitterverse, dedicated solely to the downfall of WGR, is patently retarded.

 

The fans are responding to: you, WGR. If you don't want to hear the calls and see the emails? Simple: clean up your act. Be conscious of the feedback, aware that you DO say things like "...even EJ"...and make the necessary corrections. Realize that people aren't pointing this out because there's something wrong with them. They are pointing it out because there's something wrong with you. As soon as your behavior changes, the response will change.

 

I am tired of the whining as well. You ARE getting paid to do a job. We AREN'T getting paid to listen to you. I am sick and tired of hearing you B word about doing a job you signed up for, and all that comes with it. Keep your whining to yourselves, look inside, realize you are the cause of your own problem, and, how's about resolving to do a better job?

 

Beats the hell out of more incoherent/weak arguments and whining.

 

5. My personal favorite "We are reading the TEA leaves from the coaches/We are merely reacting to what the coaches are saying"

 

Q1: Who asks the coaches the questions?

A1: The media.

C1: What the "coaches are saying" is driven mostly by the media's questions and how they are framed.

QED. The notion that the media is merely reacting in this situation, is patently retarded. Especially when we consider the fact that "reading the TEA leaves" is the basis for most of this analysis.

 

WGR: You are telling us that most of your work is based solely on interpretation....EVERYWHERE! Interpretation of what you see on the field, interpretation of what the coaches are saying, interpretation of how EJ answers the question "How do you expect things to go at your next team?" (No bias in that question at all)

 

NOTHING here is empirical. ALL is based on interpretation...and WGR people are trying to tell us that there's 0 chance for bias?

 

Here's what I do for a job: tell people like WGR that they are the opposite of right, because this environment is the MOST likely to produce bias. Enough delusion, dissonance, problem denial and shifting the blame to fans as though they are the cause.

 

Enough whining and blaming fans for merely responding to what they can clearly see is broken.

 

yeah but they're right

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I am no expert and am not sure who should be our QB.

 

That could be a good thing because the QBs are playing well or a bad thing if the coaches are not happy with their performance.

 

I saw an NFL Network show with James Lofton as a guest tonite (Tues nite). EJ has a 117 QBR - more than 20 pts better than the other 2 QB's.

 

I'm pulling for EJ, but in reality I'm pulling for the coaches to get it right!!

 

Also, if all of the QB's are substandard in the coaches eyes, I hope the Bills trade for someone's #2-3 QB to come in and play for us.

Or, hopefully as cuts are made and rosters take their final shape, someone will become available or come free like Mettenberger (sp) in Tenn or Garoppalo (sp) in NE.

[jester43]

I've been to 2 practices and was at the first game. But, your argument here is irrelevant: we are talking about specific, observed behavior by WGR. They've said it, and I'm nailing them for it. Interpreted opinion <> empirical data. Whether or not they are biased is its own, standalone issue. # of times at practice has 0 bearing on bias == one may attend 0, 1 or all of the Bills games and practices, and be biased, unbiased, or somewhere in the middle. Thus, your argument is irrelevant.

Easy: nobody I know of is claiming either one of those things. If they do, by all means, squish them.

The customers, by 2-1 want to talk about EJ, yet, because BrooklynBills and the minority don't want to talk about a topic, the majority has to put up with that? Um, no. That's not how life works. And, again, nobody is forcing these people to work at WGR. How can they claim to be impartial, competent observers and then throw a hissy fit, at the same time?

Again, that's not what this thread is about, and, again, I don't see only 2 ultimate outcomes here. There's a time for absolutes, and clearly, given "tea leaves" being involved here, this is not it!

Yeah, that's what happened. I believe there's empirical evidence below that directly contradicts you. But, I don't want to spoil the surprise. I will say: nobody gets more butthurt than WEO when I write thread a lot of posters like.

Um I specifically said there is no massive conspiracy. Nobody cares whether you, or I, like Schopp or not in this thread. It's not what it's about. I don't have to like bad behavior, because I like the person responsible. More incoherence: you're defending bad behavior with a strawman. Nobody here thinks that if EJ fails/succeeds, it will have anything to do with Schopp.

 

Christ, when will the incoherence end?

Ah HA! You've caught me. Yes, one of the hoped for outcomes of this thread...is precisely what you've identified. I was thinking it would come out later, actually. But, yeah, there is great irony here. Whining about doing a job you get paid to do. Whining about EJ supporters, and then ignoring every bad thing Taylor does. Whining when objective analysis, using WGRs own words against them, reveals a whole new level of irony.

OH NOES WEO!

 

Yeah, I'm the one being manipulated here. Once again we see that it's the other way around. No. I've found on 3 separate occaisions, when I go all out, "college thesis" style (If they only knew, right PPP?) on WGR...that there are instant behavior changes.

 

This is merely the 4th time over the last 10 years. I didn't even listen today. But, that was intentional. Why? Because I KNEW something like the above would be posted, and that I could use it. It's merely the same pattern as always. I haven't looked at this board all day, and didn't start writing this until midnight.

 

How's that for predictable, WEO? You keep telling yourself you're flying above everybody on this board...in your helicopter. Meanwhile, I'll keep flying above you in my jet.

Funny. I don't feel hot or bothered. In fact, once again, I'm LMFAO.

 

Once again, you have things exactly backwards. All I have to do is write a 10 minute, albeit "college thesis" style post, and I can force WGR's capitulation. Let me say it correctly for you: They know all of us are listening, and if they behave poorly, any of us can write a thread that forces them to correct, provided that thread is quality, and THAT is all that matters.

 

EDIT: They are reading what we say here, just as much as we are listening. They are able to get what they want, sure, but, so are we.

 

------

 

For the rest of you keep these 3 things in mind:

 

1. I specifically said "I'm not sure if WGR's coverage is biased". I haven't attended them enough. However, a large group of fans have paid attention to WGR, and have drawn this conclusion. What I do know: WGR's responses to that conclusion in the last 48 are typical of those who are, in fact, biased. I've lived this. I know it when I see it.

 

2. I want the Bills to win the SB. Period. However we get there is however we get there. I root for the side of the helmet, not the back of the jersey, just like the vast majority of Bills fans. None of this has anything to do with recognizing a wacky pattern of behavior from the media. I haven't been able to change my avatar for years, which annoys me, because I KNEW the day EJ was drafted that we'd see a ton of wacky behavior. When it ends? I can go back to having fun with my avatar.

 

3. You don't have to be an EJ supporter to recognize that something wacky is going on. I am a Bills supporter, and will cheer for whoever the QB is. I trust the coaching staff/GM of this team fully(finally, after many years). They have earned that trust: Jerry Hughes trade anyone? Trust is not about me expecting them to be perfect. Trust is about knowing that they will recognize their mistakes when they make them, and move quickly to rectify(such as bringing in Cassel and Taylor) them.

 

WGR is currently(or was) doing the opposite: refusing to even consider that they are making mistakes, blaming everyone else, and/or trying to pretend that they are beset by conspiracy theorists, when in reality, they are only beset by their own bad choices.

seek counseling.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I am no expert and am not sure who should be our QB.

That could be a good thing because the QBs are playing well or a bad thing if the coaches are not happy with their performance.

 

I saw an NFL Network show with James Lofton as a guest tonite (Tues nite). EJ has a 117 QBR - more than 20 pts better than the other 2 QB's.

 

I'm pulling for EJ, but in reality I'm pulling for the coaches to get it right!!

Also, if all of the QB's are substandard in the coaches eyes, I hope the Bills trade for someone's #2-3 QB to come in and play for us.

Or, hopefully as cuts are made and rosters take their final shape, someone will become available or come free like Mettenberger (sp) in Tenn or Garoppalo (sp) in NE.

QBR or passer rating? I was called out for making an error siting that 117 #. Just asking. not intending to criticize.

[plenzmd1]

seek counseling.

My thoughts too! Glad I looked at length of post first. I will make OC happy.

 

GR sucks, they have a bias, and I will make sure to listen everyday and point it out till the bias goes away.

 

And , I will always let all their advertises know that I hate the announcers and I know, cause I listen everyday !

[ALF]

Poll now on WGR 550 , who should start at QB Saturday and play the longest

[GG]

The customers, by 2-1 want to talk about EJ, yet, because BrooklynBills and the minority don't want to talk about a topic, the majority has to put up with that? Um, no. That's not how life works.

 

For someone who claims to only deal with real data, you sure like to throw our dubious statistics. Where did you dig up this little factoid?

[BillsVet]

So 15 years of not making the playoffs, and not acquiring a franchise QB since Kelly, and WGR is the problem? You don't want reporting, you want cheerleaders. Yeesh!

 

Other than Schoop and the Bulldog, the morning crew and the reporters are knowledgable. But some don't like them because they make critical observations as opposed to being cheerleaders.

 

The rampant cheerleading going on shouldn't be surprising on a message board. At the same time, it all but eliminates debate save for a few snide posters covertly defending the organization while giving the appearance of being objective.

 

If the media observes EJ not getting snaps, it's not an anti-EJ crusade, but merely them reporting a reality occurring on the field. I recognize that conflicts with certain fans' worldview, but there isn't some big conspiracy going on among the media. It's just that EJ isn't good enough and the new coaches are admitting that with his playing time.

[thebandit27]

So 15 years of not making the playoffs, and not acquiring a franchise QB since Kelly, and WGR is the problem? You don't want reporting, you want cheerleaders. Yeesh!

 

You don't think that the quality of the team and the quality of the radio station coverage are mutually exclusive?

 

Being critical of the team is absolutely fine. I stopped listening to WGR because the coverage of the team was substandard IMO. Listening to Sirius/XM and hearing the way other team's flagships provide coverage is complete night-and-day. Whether they're being critical or homerish, the knowledge level and quality of content provided is on a completely different level IMO.

[stony]

Mike Schopp....back when he started with WNSA (that correct?) during the whole Flutie--Johnson debate, sided strongly with Johnson. As did most of the Buffalo media. All you need to know.

 

I'm betting that Flutie was such an dbag the media decided to support Johnson.

 

 

The rampant cheerleading going on shouldn't be surprising on a message board. At the same time, it all but eliminates debate save for a few snide posters covertly defending the organization while giving the appearance of being objective.

 

If the media observes EJ not getting snaps, it's not an anti-EJ crusade, but merely them reporting a reality occurring on the field. I recognize that conflicts with certain fans' worldview, but there isn't some big conspiracy going on among the media. It's just that EJ isn't good enough and the new coaches are admitting that with his playing time.

Bravo, BV. Couldn't agree more.

[thebandit27]

 

I'm betting that Flutie was such an dbag the media decided to support Johnson.

 

^Truth

[DrDawkinstein]

 

 

The rampant cheerleading going on shouldn't be surprising on a message board. At the same time, it all but eliminates debate save for a few snide posters covertly defending the organization while giving the appearance of being objective.

 

If the media observes EJ not getting snaps, it's not an anti-EJ crusade, but merely them reporting a reality occurring on the field. I recognize that conflicts with certain fans' worldview, but there isn't some big conspiracy going on among the media. It's just that EJ isn't good enough and the new coaches are admitting that with his playing time.

 

Reporting facts like how many reps a QB is getting, and then drawing some conclusions from that is fine. But that's not what they are doing.

 

Repeatedly talking over callers with "He's terrible. He's terrible. He's terrible..." while they are trying to have a discussion is something my 6 year old niece might do, except probably not since she has manners.

 

As mentioned in this thread and admitted on their own show, Monday's show was a disaster. And the "talent" at WGR is directly responsible for that.

[OCinBuffalo]

 

For someone who claims to only deal with real data, you sure like to throw our dubious statistics. Where did you dig up this little factoid?

Reading is fundamental. If you go back, and read, you'll see it. If you're too lazy? WGR did a poll and found that 60+% of their listeners, etc. Perhaps not exactly 2-1, but certainly not 50%. In all cases, it's the only quantifiable piece of data in this entire mess....

 

...that isn't based on "reading tea leaves" or "what the coaches are saying(after we ask them a question)" or any other impression/interpretation.

 

My so-called claims are doing just fine, thanks.

seek counseling.

My thoughts too! Glad I looked at length of post first. I will make OC happy.

 

GR sucks, they have a bias, and I will make sure to listen everyday and point it out till the bias goes away.

 

And , I will always let all their advertises know that I hate the announcers and I know, cause I listen everyday !

Yeah? While I'm doing that, you guys can look up the words "substantive argument". Make one, or get out of my thread. Once again the irony abounds: I point out the consistent use of fallacy by WGR...and then, in their defense...you give me non sequitor? We should have an irony sound effect for this board.

Poll now on WGR 550 , who should start at QB Saturday and play the longest

Yeah, and of course, this thread, with 4800 views in < 24 hours, I'm sure has nothing to do with that.

 

-----------

 

No no no....I'm being "manipulated"! I should "seek counseling"!

 

Schopp didn't call his own show a "disaster" yesterday.

 

None of this is happening!

 

And why? Because all data that doesn't support the EJBad choice...must be ignored! Anyone that dares to point out that WGR's last 48 hours points directly to obvious bias? Personally attack them! Must...press...the marginalize...button...on OCinBuffalo...before...it's too late.

 

Sorry kids. You're ship has already been blown up, and pressing the marginalize button was never going to save you. But, by all means keep trying. I'd love to see your next example of unintentional irony.

Edited August 26, 2015 by OCinBuffalo

[PastaJoe]

 

You don't think that the quality of the team and the quality of the radio station coverage are mutually exclusive?

 

Being critical of the team is absolutely fine. I stopped listening to WGR because the coverage of the team was substandard IMO. Listening to Sirius/XM and hearing the way other team's flagships provide coverage is complete night-and-day. Whether they're being critical or homerish, the knowledge level and quality of content provided is on a completely different level IMO.

I don't care about other teams, so I don't listen to national broadcasts that give the Bills little coverage. The fact that the Bills are in probably the smallest radio market (Green Bay is covered throughout Wisconsin) means lack of competition compared to other markets, which can factor into the quality of the broadcasts.

 

I prefer critical analysis to just talking about all the positives. I can see what's working, I want to hear about what's wrong, why, and what are the options to correct them.

[GG]

Reading is fundamental. If you go back, and read, you'll see it. If you're too lazy? WGR did a poll and found that 60+% of their listeners, etc. Perhaps not exactly 2-1, but certainly not 50%. In all cases, it's the only quantifiable piece of data in this entire mess....

 

...that isn't based on "reading tea leaves" or "what the coaches are saying(after we ask them a question)" or any other impression/interpretation.

 

 

You're using a self-selected sample set to project over an entire audience, and think that it's a valid representation? You must be a great big data analytics guy.

 

Yeah, and of course, this thread, with 4800 views in < 24 hours, I'm sure has nothing to do with that.

 

 

 

With most people living outside the GR listening area. Keep digging out numbers. You're on a roll

[PromoTheRobot]

I don't care about other teams, so I don't listen to national broadcasts that give the Bills little coverage. The fact that the Bills are in probably the smallest radio market (Green Bay is covered throughout Wisconsin) means lack of competition compared to other markets, which can factor into the quality of the broadcasts.

 

I prefer critical analysis to just talking about all the positives. I can see what's working, I want to hear about what's wrong, why, and what are the options to correct them.

Actually I think what you prefer is coverage that matches your view of the team. If you are a miserable person who gets a certain satisfaction from failure, then WGR must be heaven to listen to.

 

The same applies to Schopp. The guy honestly has no idea how to respond to good news. He has been in such a rut for so long, all he knows is being snarky, condescending and negative. Listening to the post game show, you can actually hear the disappointment in his voice when the Bills come from behind to win, like the team ruined all of his show prep.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

 

 

The rampant cheerleading going on shouldn't be surprising on a message board. At the same time, it all but eliminates debate save for a few snide posters covertly defending the organization while giving the appearance of being objective.

 

If the media observes EJ not getting snaps, it's not an anti-EJ crusade, but merely them reporting a reality occurring on the field. I recognize that conflicts with certain fans' worldview, but there isn't some big conspiracy going on among the media. It's just that EJ isn't good enough and the new coaches are admitting that with his playing time.

It is not that they are reporting he is not getting reps. Matt Simms is probably not getting reps too. It is the way they cover the reps he does get. One can be objective and see that the other QBs are reported on differently. That is the point. Again bias is often unknown by those doing it. I have stated I do not care who starts, but the media harping on EJ for every mistake, for the most part, while hardly mentioning the other 3 QBs failing is what stands out to me.

 

There is no attempt to ask other questions as to why he may be performing badly. i.e could it be the quality of the player he is taking reps with(3rd string), not having time to'click' with first team getting so few reps, is it that he has never had to learn a new offense and it may take him longer to adjust. Maybe every thing is his fault when he throws an errand pass, but come on the "throwing into the media tent" was what decided his fate for many and most likely is more complex than "He sucks".

 

 

Poll now on WGR 550 , who should start at QB Saturday and play the longest

I bet this is a different answer than if EJ should have an opportunity with the 1s

Edited August 26, 2015 by A Dog Named Kelso

[OCinBuffalo]

I prefer critical analysis to just talking about all the positives. I can see what's working, I want to hear about what's wrong, why, and what are the options to correct them.

Christ all Friday, so do I.

 

But that's not what we get there. We get the meat draft. Every single time, in the last 10 years on this board, that I've seen somebody write up a content-heavy, Xs and Os post, posters here are all over it. In utter and ironic contradiction of that reality, we have been told, repeatedly, by WGR, that Xs and Os are "boring" and that if they did that, they'd have no show, and no ratings.

 

When they try to be insightful, they end up being obtuse, because they simply don't know the game.

 

Then, along comes Sal Capaccio, and suddenly, because he does Xs and Os, he's now a regular contributor. People are all over his content. How does that resolve itself against the notion that Xs and Os are boring? Perhaps some critical analysis is in order?

Edited August 26, 2015 by OCinBuffalo