Common Sense Optimism Re: Cassell

[Flip Johnson]

FACT: Matt Cassel is the best QB Rex Ryan has ever had. That is not saying much, but his statistical performance is far better than that of Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith.

 

FACT: Cassel's best years ('08 & '10) correspond exactly with the years that his team ran the ball the most. The '08 Pats team lacked a true feature back, but still ran the ball 513 times or 32.1 times per game. The '10 Chiefs team ran the ball 556 times or 34.8 times per game.

 

OPINION: This is probably the deepest group of playmakers Cassel has ever played with.

 

History says that when Matt Cassel has an OC who understands his strengths and weaknesses and stays committed to the running game, he will be successful. He has that in Greg Roman, and he has an elite RB in McCoy followed by a very deep group of backup RBs.

 

Everyone needs to calm the freak down with the training camp trade scenarios. Sure, it would be exciting to see Tyrod Taylor pop, or to see EJ finally take a step forward. There is still a month for that to happen. But the truth is we are set up to have success with Matt Cassel.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Flip Johnson

[LeGOATski]

Eh...

 

Those were his best years, but those teams were barely playoff contenders with him at the helm.

 

We need a playmaker back there. Hopefully Tyrod or EJ can be that guy.

[John from Riverside]

Eh...

 

Those were his best years, but those teams were barely playoff contenders with him at the helm.

 

We need a playmaker back there. Hopefully Tyrod or EJ can be that guy.

I would just like to point out that our team has not made the playoffs in FIFTEEN YEARS

 

Can we start there........please?

[NoSaint]

I would just like to point out that our team has not made the playoffs in FIFTEEN YEARS

 

Can we start there........please?

yup - but i think its fair to say the guy was last a contender 5 and 7 years ago.

 

i still dont know if one will step up, but hopefully someone will provide atleast middle of the pack contributions.

[Solomon Grundy]

FACT: Matt Cassel is the best QB Rex Ryan has ever had. That is not saying much, but his statistical performance is far better than that of Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith.

 

FACT: Cassel's best years ('08 & '10) correspond exactly with the years that his team ran the ball the most. The '08 Pats team lacked a true feature back, but still ran the ball 513 times or 32.1 times per game. The '10 Chiefs team ran the ball 556 times or 34.8 times per game.

 

OPINION: This is probably the deepest group of playmakers Cassel has ever played with.

 

History says that when Matt Cassel has an OC who understands his strengths and weaknesses and stays committed to the running game, he will be successful. He has that in Greg Roman, and he has an elite RB in McCoy followed by a very deep group of backup RBs.

 

Everyone needs to calm the freak down with the training camp trade scenarios. Sure, it would be exciting to see Tyrod Taylor pop, or to see EJ finally take a step forward. There is still a month for that to happen. But the truth is we are set up to have success with Matt Cassel.

Remember Flip, Alex Smith took 1st team reps in training camp at SF. We all know how that turned out. I'm willing to let the process play out. Fans and "some media" are looking for instant gratification. They are all learning a new system. QBs and WRs alike

[IDBillzFan]

Mark Sanchez helped the Jets get to two AFC Championship games.

 

Yes, they lost, but it's been how long since the Bills even qualified for the playoffs?

 

Make no mistake...I'm no Sanchez fan, but to suggest Cassell is the best Ryan has ever had is putting your thought process on ludicrous speed.

[Big Gun]

Remember Flip, Alex Smith took 1st team reps in training camp at SF. We all know how that turned out. I'm willing to let the process play out. Fans and "some media" are looking for instant gratification. They are all learning a new system. QBs and WRs alike

Maybe so but Kaep is 1000x better QB than EJ. FWIW I'm not a Kaep fan as I think he is a middling QB and nothing more.

[TPS]

Remember Flip, Alex Smith took 1st team reps in training camp at SF. We all know how that turned out. I'm willing to let the process play out. Fans and "some media" are looking for instant gratification. They are all learning a new system. QBs and WRs alike

These guys are professionals, the timing should've been down in mini camp (hit sarcasm button please)...

[Flip Johnson]

Mark Sanchez helped the Jets get to two AFC Championship games.

 

Yes, they lost, but it's been how long since the Bills even qualified for the playoffs?

 

Make no mistake...I'm no Sanchez fan, but to suggest Cassell is the best Ryan has ever had is putting your thought process on ludicrous speed.

 

Sanchez was ludicrously bad in '09 and '10 and they went to the playoffs despite his poor play. He did play a couple solid games in the playoffs.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm

[bonechiller]

Eh...

 

Those were his best years, but those teams were barely playoff contenders with him at the helm.

 

We need a playmaker back there. Hopefully Tyrod or EJ can be that guy.

 

thought it was "Meh" ....sry

I would just like to point out that our team has not made the playoffs in FIFTEEN YEARS

 

Can we start there........please?

NO!, not good enough

 

This team is deep at almost every position, can't let QB hold them back from going deep into playoffs.

 

Now, it is not as bad as it appears, in my opinion, but if QB holds them back, the front office will have to answer to that!

FACT: Matt Cassel is the best QB Rex Ryan has ever had. That is not saying much, but his statistical performance is far better than that of Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith.

 

FACT: Cassel's best years ('08 & '10) correspond exactly with the years that his team ran the ball the most. The '08 Pats team lacked a true feature back, but still ran the ball 513 times or 32.1 times per game. The '10 Chiefs team ran the ball 556 times or 34.8 times per game.

 

OPINION: This is probably the deepest group of playmakers Cassel has ever played with.

 

History says that when Matt Cassel has an OC who understands his strengths and weaknesses and stays committed to the running game, he will be successful. He has that in Greg Roman, and he has an elite RB in McCoy followed by a very deep group of backup RBs.

 

Everyone needs to calm the freak down with the training camp trade scenarios. Sure, it would be exciting to see Tyrod Taylor pop, or to see EJ finally take a step forward. There is still a month for that to happen. But the truth is we are set up to have success with Matt Cassel.

 

Cassel was brought in as a safety net to make sure we have at least "adequate" QB play, so in other words "meh"

Now that might be ok, or enough, but.....

 

I think everyone here wants one of the young guys to just have that light turn on, and make it something fantastic, ....

 

Let's see how it plays out.

[billstein22]

The Jets OL in '09 and '10 was much better than what we have. Still, if we can get average OL play we should see a marked improvement over last year's offensive production, even with lackluster play from Cassel.

[Kelly the Dog]

Mark Sanchez helped the Jets get to two AFC Championship games.

 

Yes, they lost, but it's been how long since the Bills even qualified for the playoffs?

 

Make no mistake...I'm no Sanchez fan, but to suggest Cassell is the best Ryan has ever had is putting your thought process on ludicrous speed.

Sanchez was absolutely horrible most of the time on those two Jet teams. It truly was in spite of him not because of him. He did have a couple decent playoff games. But most of the time he was terrible. Worse than Cassell terrible.

[Malazan]

Sanchez was absolutely horrible most of the time on those two Jet teams. It truly was in spite of him not because of him. He did have a couple decent playoff games. But most of the time he was terrible. Worse than Cassell terrible.

 

Remember when they had to make flash cards for him...and give him a wrist band with green/yellow/red on it so he'd know if he should try to throw deep or dump off on a play.

 

As for Cassell, he's the last option. Unless he shows himself to be clearly a better option than Tyrod or EJ. From the accounts of camp that I have read, that is not the case.

[8-8 Forever?]

Cassel is less of a risk than the other two... my guess is its Cassell's job to lose... how could a coach look at it any other way? Who knows? This QB thing is a mess that hopefully someone steps out of sooner rather than later...

Edited August 3, 2015 by 8and8Forever

[Rivermont Mike]

I'm worried about the QB situation, but I also think that the media is whipping this into a controversy three days into camp.

 

That said, I agree with the OP. Cassel to Watkins, Woods, Clay or McCoy could become a thing once they get their timing down. I've been rooting for EJ from the start, but it's hard to ignore legit in-game experience. And plenty of teams have proven that you can win with a short or intermediate passing game. Let Roman do his job and figure out how to make the most out of what he has.

[Maddog69]

I like that all 3 guys have been given an opportunity and a challenge. I've thought all along that Cassel was the baseline. He has the most experience and most data points to give a reasonable idea of what can be expected. I think he is the starter unless either EJ or Taylor take over the job during training camps and the 4 games. We have not seen any of them with our players and our offense against another team in an actual (albeit meaningless) game. I expect the starter to be obvious by game 3. I could not care less which one it is. I think the offense can be successful with whichever one wins the competition. Are any of them pro-bowl caliber, I don't believe so. But there isn't one of those guys available right now so we have to make due.

[Solomon Grundy]

Maybe so but Kaep is 1000x better QB than EJ. FWIW I'm not a Kaep fan as I think he is a middling QB and nothing more.

Says who, the Buffalo media?

[IDBillzFan]

Sanchez was absolutely horrible most of the time on those two Jet teams. It truly was in spite of him not because of him. He did have a couple decent playoff games. But most of the time he was terrible. Worse than Cassell terrible.

 

I know. I just...y'know...I've been hurt before. And I'm not going to get dug into a world where statistics somehow indicate that a backup quarterback who couldn't get the Patriots** to the playoffs with 11 wins is better than the backup in Philly who got to back-to-back AFC Championship games playing like crap.

Edited August 3, 2015 by LABillzFan

[Zac]

does the Buffalo media even know what good quarterbacking in TC looks like at this point?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

I know. I just...y'know...I've been hurt before.

 

Someone needs a hug.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Cassell will likely start. EJ may not even be around in the end and Taylor has proven nothing. At VA Tech, he was more effective running than anything else. That won't work in the pros; ask Mr. Tebow.

[IDBillzFan]

 

Someone needs a hug.

 

I'd settle for a playoff game.

 

Just because I've been hurt doesn't mean I'm not easy.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Just because I've been hurt doesn't mean I'm not easy.

 

Ah, California.

 

I'm with you on the playoff game, though. I honestly believe it'll happen this year. Should have happened LAST year.

[Malazan]

does the Buffalo media even know what good quarterbacking in TC looks like at this point?

 

The question is...do they care..the Buffalo 'media' long ago left worrying about being factual, accurate or having integrity long behind them. They're more concerned about generating controversy to sell whatever it is that they sell at this point.

[Kelly the Dog]

Ah, California.

 

I'm with you on the playoff game, though. I honestly believe it'll happen this year. Should have happened LAST year.

If we had Rex and Roman last year I'm convinced we would have made the playoffs. There is no reason not to this year even considering our quarterbacking.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

If we had Rex and Roman last year I'm convinced we would have made the playoffs. There is no reason not to this year even considering our quarterbacking.

 

I'm on board with that idea.

[eball]

If we had Rex and Roman last year I'm convinced we would have made the playoffs. There is no reason not to this year even considering our quarterbacking.

 

Yup. Texans, Chefs, and Raiders would have been Ws. Could have been a freaking 12-4 team.

[Chandler#81]

 

Cassel was brought in as a safety net to make sure we have at least "adequate" QB play,..

.

Says who? We traded for him as a viable starting QB.

[Juice_32]

Eh...

 

Those were his best years, but those teams were barely playoff contenders with him at the helm.

 

We need a playmaker back there. Hopefully Tyrod or EJ can be that guy.

But, on paper our D should be better than either of those teams. I agree with the OP's point. That train of thought is where I've been since we traded for him. Sure it would be better for TT or EJ to steal the job and give the coaches no choice, but Cassell still gives us a great shot IMHO.

[Flip Johnson]

The point is that when certain variables are in place, Cassel will succeed. It isn't random. He needs a running game and a good OC. In '08 he had McDaniels and a very productive group of RBs, and in '10 he had Charlie Weis and Thomas Jones/Jamaal Charles.

 

Since that point he has generally had overmatched OCs, and injury-prone, ineffective, or underutilized RBs.

[LeGOATski]

I would just like to point out that our team has not made the playoffs in FIFTEEN YEARS

 

Can we start there........please?

I just don't want to end there. I want a playmaker, not just a manager. Cassel is a backup. I'm hoping Tyrod or EJ are a little better than that.

 

But, on paper our D should be better than either of those teams. I agree with the OP's point. That train of thought is where I've been since we traded for him. Sure it would be better for TT or EJ to steal the job and give the coaches no choice, but Cassell still gives us a great shot IMHO.

 

Those teams had plenty of talent. Buffalo's got plenty of talent.

 

Maybe I'm being greedy, but I want more than a journeyman backup. Fitz, Orton, Cassel....hopefully one of the young guys can be more of a game-changer.

[midland]

This is the first time that I have ever posted on this board, however look over and read articles daily. I live in the Midwest, and purchase the Directv nfl package every year to watch the Bills, only by the end of the season get let down.Ever year I tell myself i'm not going to renewal the nfl package only to renew every year for the past 15 yrs, and will again this year. I'm extremely excited about this year being the year, the BILLS make the PLAYOFFS, and once in the playoff nobody knows what will happen. I too agree with a few others that have posted that Cassell is the safe option, he may not flash or jump off fantasy boards, however if he can manage games, keeps turnovers down, that is all we can ask of him(that is about all we are going to ask or get for other options out there at this time). If he would happen to play above that expectations, then it will make the Bills a team to look out for. I believe the approach Rex is taking is by saying it is on open competition, was to try to keep the confidence of both EJ and Tylor up. If Rex would of called Cassell the open winner before camp, and one the others happen to step up, and he would then name them the starter, the media would be second guessing him ALL the time. If I would say I didn't think there was options out there that I liked better then Cassell, I would be lying, but the Bills are in camp with the options they have, so I say let it play out (hasn't even been a week in camp).

[LeGOATski]

This is the first time that I have ever posted on this board, however look over and read articles daily. I live in the Midwest, and purchase the Directv nfl package every year to watch the Bills, only by the end of the season get let down.Ever year I tell myself i'm not going to renewal the nfl package only to renew every year for the past 15 yrs, and will again this year. I'm extremely excited about this year being the year, the BILLS make the PLAYOFFS, and once in the playoff nobody knows what will happen. I too agree with a few others that have posted that Cassell is the safe option, he may not flash or jump off fantasy boards, however if he can manage games, keeps turnovers down, that is all we can ask of him(that is about all we are going to ask or get for other options out there at this time). If he would happen to play above that expectations, then it will make the Bills a team to look out for. I believe the approach Rex is taking is by saying it is on open competition, was to try to keep the confidence of both EJ and Tylor up. If Rex would of called Cassell the open winner before camp, and one the others happen to step up, and he would then name them the starter, the media would be second guessing him ALL the time. If I would say I didn't think there was options out there that I liked better then Cassell, I would be lying, but the Bills are in camp with the options they have, so I say let it play out (hasn't even been a week in camp).

I see you're adopting the Rex Ryan approach. You believe the competition is a fraud, but you'll let it play out.

[Uncle Monkeyhead]

I will say this about the "way too early in camp" criticism of the QBs.....how many camps have we heard "looked great, accurate, commanding, etc" only to have them fail miserably when it counts most?

 

I for one am enjoying the poor showing so far.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

yup - but i think its fair to say the guy was last a contender 5 and 7 years ago.

 

i still dont know if one will step up, but hopefully someone will provide atleast middle of the pack contributions.

I looked at Cassel in Minnesota, other than the 1 terrible game vs NE last year he has a winning record and a 84 rating, and Minnesota isn't a good team. I'm comfortable with Cassel.

[Fadingpain]

 

I know. I just...y'know...I've been hurt before. And I'm not going to get dug into a world where statistics somehow indicate that a backup quarterback who couldn't get the Patriots** to the playoffs with 11 wins is better than the backup in Philly who got to back-to-back AFC Championship games playing like crap.

The original poster is, in my opinion, engaging in rationalization. You know, a defense mechanism in which controversial feelings (fear that one of our QBs will not be good enough but hope that one will be) are justified and explained in a seemingly rational or logical manner to avoid the true explanation (none of our QBs are good enough) thus making the feelings tolerable.

 

This is a logical fallacy.

 

This practice is routinely engaged in by many at this and other other sports fan forums in my experience. It's what many define as being "a good fan."

 

In reality, all we really have with this group of QBs is hope and prayer.

 

If one can be just good enough to get the rest of the talent on the roster into the playoffs, we'll make the playoffs.

 

If none can, we won't.

[pafan]

This team is deep at almost every position, can't let QB hold them back from going deep into playoffs.

 

Now, it is not as bad as it appears, in my opinion, but if QB holds them back, the front office will have to answer to that!

 

It's tough to hold the front office accountable when they really didn't have any even average options. This has been rehashed a thousand times but their options were Matt Moore (who I preferred over, but feel is equivalent to, Cassel), a bunch of retreads (Hoyer/Hill/Ponder/Schaub/Flynn), and Taylor's potential. They didn't pass over a sure-thing in the draft, no sure-thing was on the trading block, and even if they put a package together to grab Winston we'd be reading 500 doom & gloom threads right this very second seeing as how he just spent the better part of the day throwing balls at his receiver's feet.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

FACT: Matt Cassel is the best QB Rex Ryan has ever had. That is not saying much, but his statistical performance is far better than that of Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith.

 

FACT: Cassel's best years ('08 & '10) correspond exactly with the years that his team ran the ball the most. The '08 Pats team lacked a true feature back, but still ran the ball 513 times or 32.1 times per game. The '10 Chiefs team ran the ball 556 times or 34.8 times per game.

 

OPINION: This is probably the deepest group of playmakers Cassel has ever played with.

 

History says that when Matt Cassel has an OC who understands his strengths and weaknesses and stays committed to the running game, he will be successful. He has that in Greg Roman, and he has an elite RB in McCoy followed by a very deep group of backup RBs.

 

Everyone needs to calm the freak down with the training camp trade scenarios. Sure, it would be exciting to see Tyrod Taylor pop, or to see EJ finally take a step forward. There is still a month for that to happen. But the truth is we are set up to have success with Matt Cassel.

honestly I don't know if you are joking or not

 

Are you reading the posts from the fans (not the mediots)?

[3rdand12]

I will say this about the "way too early in camp" criticism of the QBs.....how many camps have we heard "looked great, accurate, commanding, etc" only to have them fail miserably when it counts most?

 

I for one am enjoying the poor showing so far.

true enough but your bit i highlighted i find grand. I truly do.

 

a bit of Zen.

 

we have yet to see the lotus blossom.

for if it shows too soon it will quickly die. patience and nurture

Edited August 4, 2015 by 3rdand12

[PlayoffsPlease]

Fact: it is not 2010