Will the Bills ever sign Charles Clay?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

I guess Clay knows the value of a late entry. He'll be treated as a messiah if he ever gets here.

[OntarioRV]

Good article that puts it into perspective for the Dolphins. They have too many other need to match a big offer to Clay.

 

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/sfl-perkins-im-almost-sold-on-dolphins-pairing-tes-charles-clay-and-jordan-cameron-20150313-story.html

[Kirby Jackson]

I voted yes by Saturday but I'm leaning toward the draft and Mycole Pruitt:

 

Roman loves/needs the move TE (not my quote)

Here are Pruitt's measurables vs Clay (as I'm getting sick of waiting for him even though we haven't even offered a contract)

 

6ft 2 VS 6ft 3

2.51 VS 2.45 lbs

4.58 VS 4.70 40 yard dash

5.24 VS 4.76 NFL.com combine draft grade

Both Small Schools:

SIU VS Tulsa

 

Blocking

Clay>Pruitt (but how much blocking does a move TE do?)

Cap Savings for Pruit vs $7+ Million per for Clay

 

He is Mayock's 3rd rated TE

 

Thoughts on Pruitt's Draft round? 4th, 5th or 6th?

I Believe Clay was 6th rounder

 

Anyone see him play?

 

Thanks

 

Scott

I'm glad that this came up because Pruitt is a guy that can be a star IMO..

[HurlyBurly51]

I wonder how high this "big" offer is? Think the Bills are willing to get to $10M?!

[Punch]

My take on this has become that it's just a matter of time before Clay is a Bill. The Dolphins will make it as difficult as possible for the Bills, who will patiently wait. The Bills are taking their time with the offer sheet because Miami is forcing their hand to up the offer and the Bills will structure the offer to match Miami's available space. That could explain the two teams "trading offers", which was reported earlier.

 

It took awhile for me to realize this is a showdown between Rex and his former boss in Mike Tannenbaum.

[Bubba Gump]

I guess Clay knows the value of a late entry. He'll be treated as a messiah if he ever gets here.

I just hope the reasoning for this whole process being drawn out isn't because Clay wants nothing to do with playing in Buffalo. Not sure I would want an unhappy player taking up a roster space. He could easily sign here for big money and then turn into a POS because he isn't happy here, or even worse, hold out. But like most other FAs that come here, they usually turn out to be happy and productive. Hopefully that would be the case with him, if he does happen to sign here.

[ToGoGo]

My take on this has become that it's just a matter of time before Clay is a Bill. The Dolphins will make it as difficult as possible for the Bills, who will patiently wait. The Bills are taking their time with the offer sheet because Miami is forcing their hand to up the offer and the Bills will structure the offer to match Miami's available space. That could explain the two teams "trading offers", which was reported earlier.

 

It took awhile for me to realize this is a showdown between Rex and his former boss in Mike Tannenbaum.

 

Terrific catch. It says something about the quality of in-depth reporting, that despite this story being beaten into the ground locally, you are the first person to make that connection to Tannenbaum. I have a little theory that one of the biggest reasons Rex came to Buffalo was to stay in the AFC East and play Belichick twice a year. From what I know about him, it seems very important to him to "beat" his rivals.

 

It would also explain why the Dolphins just won't let go of Clay and are willing to play dirty to impact the Bills cap situation. Tannenbaum seems to be a man of grudges. His rivalry with Rex has been cited as the #1 reason for the Jets downfall. Seeing as how petty Tannenbaum is being with the Dolphins already, I'm beginning to suspect he was a bigger problem than Rex.

[BrooklynBills]

I think the Bills played Miami on this. Some people said Harvin was the smoke screen. Looks like it was Clay. Miami made a bunch of wonky moves to match a contract. Looks like the transition will be enough. Ha.

Miami got rid of a bunch of guys they were already planning on/wanted to get rid of. They are having a pretty decent offseason considering the cap situation they entered with. Wallace was a bust of a signing and they actually got someone to take his contract. Ellerbe also was going to get cut and they traded him. They saved more money trading these guys than if they just cut them. They haven't gotten rid of anyone important. Will probably keep Clay when there was a chance he would be stolen away. They have holes for sure but the guys they are losing were never in the equation for them in 2015

[YoloinOhio]

It's only for one year though.

Sure they could cut Cameron after a year. But what if they like him and it's working out great? Then they do this all again next year when Suh's cap hit skyrockets and they need to pay Tannehill QB money? also don't they need other starting caliber players at the positions they are missing to win games for that one year? Not just the ones they "didn't need" (but still need replaced) because their contracts weren't friendly, but the holes they had to begin with. Their cap management gives me a headache.

I wonder how high this "big" offer is? Think the Bills are willing to get to $10M?!

maybe but only for one year. It won't be 10/yr. jmo. Edited March 14, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[YoloinOhio]

the move that didn't make sense to me was Chandler being cut. why not hold on to him until they find a replacement?

he was cut that day because he was due a bonus on the next day. They had already decided they were moving fwd without him. He's not a good fit for the new scheme and they didn't want the cap hit for a depth player. They want to upgrade and use a different style TE. They are clearly high on Clay but if he stays put they have 4 months to get their 2 new TEs in place.

[ALF]

If Miami wants to keep Clay and he wants to stay there,the Bills should not force him here.

 

For a blocking TE , a agile , lighter OL man works for me. A tall physical basketball player who can catch is ok for a receiving TE

 

I don't think we will get Gronk or Graham , so its on to plan B after cutting Scott and Lee.

Edited March 14, 2015 by ALF

[RichVP]

 

Terrific catch. It says something about the quality of in-depth reporting, that despite this story being beaten into the ground locally, you are the first person to make that connection to Tannenbaum. I have a little theory that one of the biggest reasons Rex came to Buffalo was to stay in the AFC East and play Belichick twice a year. From what I know about him, it seems very important to him to "beat" his rivals.

 

It would also explain why the Dolphins just won't let go of Clay and are willing to play dirty to impact the Bills cap situation. Tannenbaum seems to be a man of grudges. His rivalry with Rex has been cited as the #1 reason for the Jets downfall. Seeing as how petty Tannenbaum is being with the Dolphins already, I'm beginning to suspect he was a bigger problem than Rex.

 

I think Tannenbaum is a terrible person for the front office for the Dolphins. I revel in the fact he went there. He put the Jets in cap hell too trying to get past the AFC Championship game with aging veterans that were on the down slope of there careers with larger than necessary contracts. That was the reason the Jets were forced to move on from Revis. At the time the cap wasn't increasing much at all and they were projected, if I recall correctly, to have less than 10 million in cap space.

 

Izdik came in and fixed the Jets cap situation. He was absolutely terrible at drafting as a GM but he fixed a huge mess Tannenbaum created and without successful drafts to replenish talent, that he was forced to let walk, it gave Rex a roster void of quality players.

 

Tannenbaum, in my opinion, is the major reason the Jets went downhill. He swung for the fences after each year after Rex and Sanchez made the AFC title game and each time he missed not just poorly but horribly. And the Jets window closed as Sanchez lost talent around him and the defense regressed (Even slightly).

 

Because of that I can't be happier the Dolphins were the ones to hire him.

Edited March 14, 2015 by RichVP

[thebandit27]

As long as we're talking sleeper TEs in the draft--how about Jean Sifrin of UMass?

[atlbillsfan1975]

I voted yes by Saturday but I'm leaning toward the draft and Mycole Pruitt:

 

Roman loves/needs the move TE (not my quote)

Here are Pruitt's measurables vs Clay (as I'm getting sick of waiting for him even though we haven't even offered a contract)

 

6ft 2 VS 6ft 3

2.51 VS 2.45 lbs

4.58 VS 4.70 40 yard dash

5.24 VS 4.76 NFL.com combine draft grade

Both Small Schools:

SIU VS Tulsa

 

Blocking

Clay>Pruitt (but how much blocking does a move TE do?)

Cap Savings for Pruit vs $7+ Million per for Clay

 

He is Mayock's 3rd rated TE

 

Thoughts on Pruitt's Draft round? 4th, 5th or 6th?

I Believe Clay was 6th rounder

 

Anyone see him play?

 

Thanks

 

Scott

the only thing is the adjustment period to the NFL. Go look at Clay's stats his first two seasons vs the last two seasons. Yards and receptions are a huge difference. Not saying Pruitt can not come in and play, but to think a 4th, 5th or 6th rounder is your answer for TE is not a good business plan.

 

side note,

what if Whaley never makes an official offer?? At some point he realizes Clay is not worth the money or whatever and sees all the hoops the Phins jumped through to keep him. and Whaley says screw it.

Edited March 14, 2015 by atlbillsfan1975

[YoloinOhio]

the only thing is the adjustment period to the NFL. Go look at Clay's stats his first two seasons vs the last two seasons. Yards and receptions are a huge difference. Not saying Pruitt can not come in and play, but to think a 4th, 5th or 6th rounder is your answer for TE is not a good business plan.

 

side note,

what if Whaley never makes an official offer?? At some point he realizes Clay is not worth the money or whatever and sees all the hoops the Phins jumped through to keep him. and Whaley says screw it.

definite possibility

[nucci]

If Miami wants to keep Clay and he wants to stay there,the Bills should not force him here.

 

For a blocking TE , a agile , lighter OL man works for me. A tall physical basketball player who can catch is ok for a receiving TE

 

I don't think we will get Gronk or Graham , so its on to plan B after cutting Scott and Lee.

How would the Bills force him here? He is free to sign anywhere, including signing the 1 yr transition tag with Miami at anytime. If he doesn't want to be in Buffalo then he won't sign a contract to play in Buffalo. It's not complicated.

[BUFFALOTONE]

 

I think Tannenbaum is a terrible person for the front office for the Dolphins. I revel in the fact he went there. He put the Jets in cap hell too trying to get past the AFC Championship game with aging veterans that were on the down slope of there careers with larger than necessary contracts. That was the reason the Jets were forced to move on from Revis. At the time the cap wasn't increasing much at all and they were projected, if I recall correctly, to have less than 10 million in cap space.

 

Izdik came in and fixed the Jets cap situation. He was absolutely terrible at drafting as a GM but he fixed a huge mess Tannenbaum created and without successful drafts to replenish talent, that he was forced to let walk, it gave Rex a roster void of quality players.

 

Tannenbaum, in my opinion, is the major reason the Jets went downhill. He swung for the fences after each year after Rex and Sanchez made the AFC title game and each time he missed not just poorly but horribly. And the Jets window closed as Sanchez lost talent around him and the defense regressed (Even slightly).

 

Because of that I can't be happier the Dolphins were the ones to hire him.

Spot on! And you have to hear them down here in Miami. They think Tannanbum is the next best thing. I had the same conversation with a friend who's a die hard Jets fan. He agreed Tannanbum was the problem, overpaying Holmes and Edwards and a ton of bone head contracts.

[YoloinOhio]

@JFowlerESPN: Keep hearing its not looking good for Browns and TE Charles Clay. Chances appear on life support.

Still time to make a big offer, tho

[NoSaint]

 

Terrific catch. It says something about the quality of in-depth reporting, that despite this story being beaten into the ground locally, you are the first person to make that connection to Tannenbaum. I have a little theory that one of the biggest reasons Rex came to Buffalo was to stay in the AFC East and play Belichick twice a year. From what I know about him, it seems very important to him to "beat" his rivals.

 

It would also explain why the Dolphins just won't let go of Clay and are willing to play dirty to impact the Bills cap situation. Tannenbaum seems to be a man of grudges. His rivalry with Rex has been cited as the #1 reason for the Jets downfall. Seeing as how petty Tannenbaum is being with the Dolphins already, I'm beginning to suspect he was a bigger problem than Rex.

Hes being petty? By not letting a "special" player walk?

[KDIGGZ]

@JFowlerESPN: Keep hearing its not looking good for Browns and TE Charles Clay. Chances appear on life support.

Still time to make a big offer, tho

the Browns? I doubt he was ever even considering them. Never went on a visit.

[YoloinOhio]

the Browns? I doubt he was ever even considering them. Never went on a visit.

I suppose they could still submit an offer sheet. If they are still in touch with his agent. I have no idea. They have been pretty silent on it.

[ALF]

How would the Bills force him here? He is free to sign anywhere, including signing the 1 yr transition tag with Miami at anytime. If he doesn't want to be in Buffalo then he won't sign a contract to play in Buffalo. It's not complicated.

 

If Clay prefers to play for Miami just leave him alone . its not complicated.

[YoloinOhio]

Looks like the Mike Wallace trade just finished off the Bills chances in the Clay-mation Derby.

 

He seems like a good player, but 7 million dollars for a TE like that?! Yeesh.

i think they have been trying to get rid of Wallace ever since he quit on the team last season and has that ridiculous contract. The acquisition of Stills allowed them to make the the move. But it was reported that because of bonus acceleration, the Wallace trade only saved $2.2M on this year's cap. Not even 1/3 of Clay. I think the move was more to help them sign some tier 2 or 3 FAs and their draft picks. They could still extend Clay if he is committed to staying and will take a discount but my guess he could get a lot more from another team.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

If Clay prefers to play for Miami just leave him alone . its not complicated.

It is though because you have an opportunity to manipulate Miami's cap. If he picks Miami you want it to be accompanied by terms that are not favorable to them. You have a chance to hurt a division rival whether you land Clay or not.

[Big Turk]

i think they have been trying to get rid of Wallace ever since he quit on the team last season and has that ridiculous contract. The acquisition of Stills allowed them to make the the move. But it was reported that because of bonus acceleration, the Wallace trade only saved $2.2M on this year's cap. Not even 1/3 of Clay. I think the move was more to help them sign some tier 2 or 3 FAs and their draft picks. They could still extend Clay if he is committed to staying and will take a discount but my guess he could get a lot more from another team.

I have no idea how Miami is getting teams to take these ridiculous contracts off their hands like Wallace and Ellerbe...

This has to be the most impressive thing in the off-season to me...talk about hocus pocus

[YoloinOhio]

Another reason they may be trying to extend him is to trade him later.

[blargo]

i think they have been trying to get rid of Wallace ever since he quit on the team last season and has that ridiculous contract. The acquisition of Stills allowed them to make the the move. But it was reported that because of bonus acceleration, the Wallace trade only saved $2.2M on this year's cap. Not even 1/3 of Clay. I think the move was more to help them sign some tier 2 or 3 FAs and their draft picks. They could still extend Clay if he is committed to staying and will take a discount but my guess he could get a lot more from another team.

But Clay is already accounted for this year with the transition tag. If anything a long term contract will give them more cap space and if they do not match the get 7+M cap space back.

[Big Turk]

But Clay is already accounted for this year with the transition tag. If anything a long term contract will give them more cap space and if they do not match the get 7+M cap space back.

Is he? He hasnt signed it yet

[KDIGGZ]

Another reason they may be trying to extend him is to trade him later.

This is what I think. The Browns seem really interested. Could probably sign him and then trade him for a pick. That keeps him away from us too

[BobChalmers]

I'm ready for the Nick O'Leary era at TE for the Bills.

 

Waiting and wondering about Clay is getting t me too.

[YoloinOhio]

But Clay is already accounted for this year with the transition tag. If anything a long term contract will give them more cap space and if they do not match the get 7+M cap space back.

they have a ton of players left they need to sign. They only have maybe 40 under contract. He may be accounted for but he's one guy.

This is what I think. The Browns seem really interested. Could probably sign him and then trade him for a pick. That keeps him away from us too

it makes a lot of sense. The Browns are desperate and have a very hard time attracting FAs to sign with them, especially pass catchers with their QB situation. The only way they can get the top tier guys is to trade, and they have the draft picks and cap space to make it happen.

I'm ready for the Nick O'Leary era at TE for the Bills.

 

Waiting and wondering about Clay is getting t me too.

i think he would be a great fit for the H-back role.

[BuffaloHokie13]

I'm ready for the Nick O'Leary era at TE for the Bills.

 

Waiting and wondering about Clay is getting t me too.

O'Leary played with EJ I think, maybe there's a comfort level?

[YoloinOhio]

O'Leary played with EJ I think, maybe there's a comfort level?

yes they did play together when o Leary was a freshman. I would love that pick.

[Big Turk]

yes they did play together when o Leary was a freshman. I would love that pick.

Lonnie Johnson 2.0?

[YoloinOhio]

Lonnie Johnson 2.0?

Why?

[ALF]

It is though because you have an opportunity to manipulate Miami's cap. If he picks Miami you want it to be accompanied by terms that are not favorable to them. You have a chance to hurt a division rival whether you land Clay or not.

 

 

If it hurts Miami's cap and he wants to stay there , that's good.

[KDIGGZ]

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

If it hurts Miami's cap and he wants to stay there , that's good.

I would imagine that's what the Bills are trying to do. They want to get him, but if they don't they want the consolation to be crippling Miami's cap space. If they can get him to sign their offer sheet they will have accomplished at least the latter. Edited March 14, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

are we there yet?

[Kirby Jackson]

are we there yet?

The rumors are the Bills will be submitting an offer sheet today or tomorrow .