DrDawkinstein Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 There's still plenty of money to sign O-Linemen, TE, QB, and whatever else they feel they need. Is Gurley better than McCoy? Of course a 2nd Rd RB coming off a knee injury will be better than a guy who was just named the #5 best player in the NFL by his peers. Duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 This is my issue with the trade. I can rationalize the skill for skill part. We didn't miss Kiko last year at all. But what the trade also does by proxy is cost is resigning one of our own. Cap space is right around 25 mil, -5 for rookies, 10 for Shady. That leaves us around 10 mil to resign Bradham, Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore. In essence this move may cost us Kiko and one of the above. I think your math is a bit off. The Bills will have $22 million left AFTER trading for McCoy. $3.5 million will go to rookies. Bradham, Dareus, Glenn and Gilmore all don't need to be signed THIS year. In fact none of them need to be signed and put under this years cap numbers. The Bills are looking to sign Hughes, that's about it in terms of there own guys. Add to that, McCoy will be smart to restructure, he has no guaranteed money in 2016. If the Bills are able to restructure his contract that will lower his cap hit AND give him more guaranteed money. The cap is going to go up next year, there will be plenty of room to sign those guys. You know who there probably wouldn't have been room for, if he played to his potential? Alonso. The cap issue is completely overblown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I hope the #billsmafia comes out in huge support, blow up his twitter with positive vibes. There has been plenty of players that were hesitant about playing for Buffalo until they saw what our fan base is like. do you mean the fans that think he is on the decline and not worth the money of his contract? He will like playing where he is paid well and if the team performs well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think your math is a bit off. The Bills will have $22 million left AFTER trading for McCoy. $3.5 million will go to rookies. Bradham, Dareus, Glenn and Gilmore all don't need to be signed THIS year. In fact none of them need to be signed and put under this years cap numbers. The Bills are looking to sign Hughes, that's about it in terms of there own guys. Add to that, McCoy will be smart to restructure, he has no guaranteed money in 2016. If the Bills are able to restructure his contract that will lower his cap hit AND give him more guaranteed money. The cap is going to go up next year, there will be plenty of room to sign those guys. You know who there probably wouldn't have been room for, if he played to his potential? Alonso. The cap issue is completely overblown. We have an estimated $22m left over AFTER McCoy and taking into account rookie signings. So that $3.5 mil is already taken care of. http://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/updated-projected-cap-space-for-all-2015-nfl-teams-503/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 McCoy's season average stats for his past 6 seasons are 1132 rushing yards 7 TD's and 4.6 YPC I like those numbers CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 We have an estimated $22m left over AFTER McCoy and taking into account rookie signings. So that $3.5 mil is already taken care of. http://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/updated-projected-cap-space-for-all-2015-nfl-teams-503/ Thanks, couldn't remember if that included it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBaumer Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 We heard you the last 20 times. It's a message board ok, I get it. I can't express multiple, different points on the trade. Why don't you stick to football talk instead of insults to people who don't like it. I post fewer than most over the last However many years so relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 And there you go. Cap hit will go down and Shady gets some guarantees. So would such a situation be giving him a couple million less this year, but some guaranteed in 2016-2017? I'm assuming we'd have to offer a decent amount of guaranteed cash for him to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 McCoy's season average stats for his past 6 seasons are 1132 rushing yards, 7 TD's and 4.6 YPC, 380 Rec yards, and 2 rec td's I like those numbers CBF added a couple relevant numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 added a couple relevant numbers Thank you sir! CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Of course a 2nd Rd RB coming off a knee injury will be better than a guy who was just named the #5 best player in the NFL by his peers. Duh! You're right. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Dave, I'm not a huge fan of the trade but I also think the risk is being overblown a bit. Kiko is a great player but perhaps he is a better fit for a team like Philly that features a high-scoring, high-octane offense, and whose defense plays a lot of snaps, often protecting a lead. That's not Rex's vision for the Bills, and I'm ok with it - they want pluggers who can stop the run at the linebacker spots, and Kiko is light in the pants. As for Shady, while I'm VERY skeptical of chasing yet another shiny new RB, he's probably the best or second-best back in the league, with a few more years left at Level Elite. Assuming they're going to be just as aggressive finding a tight end and some guards, this could work out just fine. You may be right. I just feel like I've been burned so many times in the past (after initially cheering a trade) that I can't help but be skeptical. Anyway, I hope McCoy lights it up. On the bright side, the certified genius Bill Belichick traded a second round pick for a 29-year old Corey Dillon who had already rushed for over 8000 yards. That worked out well, at least in the very short term. Dillon was a huge part of why the Pats went 14-2 in 2004 and won the SB. He had 1,635 rushing yards and 13 TDs. He had a couple more seasons as a JAG after that, but he wasn't useless. Edited March 4, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 How about this? Keep Alonso, draft Gurley (or another RB), save 8 million in salary and spend it on the offensive line? You people realize that Bryce Brown looked like a star in that Philly offense too? McCoy has had the benefit of a good to great offensive line, and excellent offensive coaching (Reid and now Chip) his whole career. He won't have that here and when he's being outplayed by Freddie, there will be some sad people on this board. This trade sucks on so many levels it's not even funny. Whaley needs to go. The guy is as clueless as he is reckless. Let's assume the Bills try this strategy - what happens if some other team drafts Gurley before the Bills do, you do know that might happen, you don't get to draft whatever player you want. There is a draft order.... We have well over 20 million to spend on the line. They will probably only sign one high priced lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 This is my issue with the trade. I can rationalize the skill for skill part. We didn't miss Kiko last year at all. But what the trade also does by proxy is cost is resigning one of our own. Cap space is right around 25 mil, -5 for rookies, 10 for Shady. That leaves us around 10 mil to resign Bradham, Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore. In essence this move may cost us Kiko and one of the above. Cap went up $10M this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 So would such a situation be giving him a couple million less this year, but some guaranteed in 2016-2017? I'm assuming we'd have to offer a decent amount of guaranteed cash for him to take it. I think they would extend his deal out by a couple years. Give him more guaranteed and spread the cap hit out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think they would extend his deal out by a couple years. Give him more guaranteed and spread the cap hit out. I think they would extend his deal out by a couple years. Give him more guaranteed and spread the cap hit out. What's his contract like right now? All I know is ~$10m this year, and something unguaranteed and lesser in following years? Is he on a 3 year deal currently? (Sorry if this was posted, but this thread is long haha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 How about this? Keep Alonso, draft Gurley (or another RB), save 8 million in salary and spend it on the offensive line? You people realize that Bryce Brown looked like a star in that Philly offense too? McCoy has had the benefit of a good to great offensive line, and excellent offensive coaching (Reid and now Chip) his whole career. He won't have that here and when he's being outplayed by Freddie, there will be some sad people on this board. This trade sucks on so many levels it's not even funny. Whaley needs to go. The guy is as clueless as he is reckless. You do realize Greg Roman is the OC -- widely considered a run game genius? Post less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 This is my issue with the trade. I can rationalize the skill for skill part. We didn't miss Kiko last year at all. But what the trade also does by proxy is cost is resigning one of our own. Cap space is right around 25 mil, -5 for rookies, 10 for Shady. That leaves us around 10 mil to resign Bradham, Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore. In essence this move may cost us Kiko and one of the above. we have a TON of space. if you really got into the structure of our roster and the projections of the cap... cap space is little to no concern currently. any of those guys will be a decision based on value, not limitations of our space. What's his contract like right now? All I know is ~$10m this year, and something unguaranteed and lesser in following years? Is he on a 3 year deal currently? (Sorry if this was posted, but this thread is long haha) essentially a 3 year 25m deal with nothing guaranteed is what we are picking up. its 7 and 8 for the years following this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 From NFL.com article on trade winners and losers: "Bills fans: It's been a while since they have felt this relevant. Their defensive line is the best in the league, and they have added Rex Ryan and LeSean McCoy before free agency even starts. Time will tell if the Bills look back fondly on the deal; we believe it could be a rare win-win. It undeniably makes the Bills more interesting." Wasn't too long ago when many were decrying the fact that the Bills were no longer relevant nationally. Now, with the Pegula purchase, Rex hire and McCoy trade, one could argue that they're on Sportscenter more than 95% of the other franchises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Cap went up $10M this year. might even go up as much as 15 next year according to early projections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 we have a TON of space. if you really got into the structure of our roster and the projections of the cap... cap space is little to no concern currently. any of those guys will be a decision based on value, not limitations of our space. essentially a 3 year 25m deal with nothing guaranteed is what we are picking up. its 7 and 8 for the years following this I don't get why everyone is worried about the cap. There is also a cap floor the Bills have to meet. Anyone think of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 we have a TON of space. if you really got into the structure of our roster and the projections of the cap... cap space is little to no concern currently. any of those guys will be a decision based on value, not limitations of our space. essentially a 3 year 25m deal with nothing guaranteed is what we are picking up. its 7 and 8 for the years following this Oh, yeah, McCoy would be stupid to pass up the guaranteed money extension, and if he does, no loss for us. Good on Doug for pulling this off if it goes through. I don't get why everyone is worried about the cap. There is also a cap floor the Bills have to meet. Anyone think of that? I'm not overly worried, just to be clear. Just a tad uncomfortable with his $10m hit this year... but others have walked me back from that ledge My concern is that we have some young guys on our team that we want to lock up in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 @BuckyBrooks: Here are 3 reasons why trading for @CutonDime25 will help the @buffalobills get off to a fast start under Rex Ryan: http://t.co/7Y6bZIZ6oo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I don't get why everyone is worried about the cap. There is also a cap floor the Bills have to meet. Anyone think of that? for some reason a lot of people on here get panicky whenever we get close to the cap. i think because we havent been a team that spends to it (or past it) regularly, a lot of the fans just arent used to the discussions and methods to create space. annually we see the "omg that other team is SCREWED by their cap situation" threads, followed by the "how in the heck did they do it" ones. i dont mean that as a knock on anyone, just a reality that its not something that most are familiar with as a year in and year out consideration and weve heard so many times that "we couldnt sign XXXX cause it would ruin a deal 2-3 years from now" (which often wasnt true, but was an easy way off the hook) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Bruce Arians says the Cardinals knew LeSean McCoy was available but didn't think he was the right fit in Arizona http://t.co/wuIJB4a7VV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Oh, yeah, McCoy would be stupid to pass up the guaranteed money extension, and if he does, no loss for us. Good on Doug for pulling this off if it goes through. I'm not overly worried, just to be clear. Just a tad uncomfortable with his $10m hit this year... but others have walked me back from that ledge My concern is that we have some young guys on our team that we want to lock up in the near future. I understand your concern but cap keeps going up and Bills have plenty of space to sign whomever they choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I understand your concern but cap keeps going up and Bills have plenty of space to sign whomever they choose. Yup, the guys here have eased my concerns about all that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 @WillBrinson: New @CBSSports podcast with @ryanwilson_07 grading Kiko-Shady trade up: http://t.co/hZLr6xoKx8http://t.co/qYJP0O5pWC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Bruce Arians says the Cardinals knew LeSean McCoy was available but didn't think he was the right fit in Arizona http://t.co/wuIJB4a7VV Translation -- we couldn't afford him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 So, McCoy doesnt want to come here: http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/03/will_lesean_mccoy_block_a_trade_to_buffalo_bills.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 for some reason a lot of people on here get panicky whenever we get close to the cap. i think because we havent been a team that spends to it (or past it) regularly, a lot of the fans just arent used to the discussions and methods to create space. annually we see the "omg that other team is SCREWED by their cap situation" threads, followed by the "how in the heck did they do it" ones. i dont mean that as a knock on anyone, just a reality that its not something that most are familiar with as a year in and year out consideration and weve heard so many times that "we couldnt sign XXXX cause it would ruin a deal 2-3 years from now" (which often wasnt true, but was an easy way off the hook) I think its also some lingering PTSD from the way the Bills were screwed back when the Salary Cap went into affect back in the 90s. All of a sudden we were in cap hell and had to get rid of all our stars, and it seemed like our FO was completely surprised by it all and had no idea what they were doing. So, McCoy doesnt want to come here: http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/03/will_lesean_mccoy_block_a_trade_to_buffalo_bills.html That article is from last night, only contains LeSeans immediate reaction, and has since been smoothed over. He'll be fine and happy. Jim Kelly didnt want to come here either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think its also some lingering PTSD from the way the Bills were screwed back when the Salary Cap went into affect back in the 90s. All of a sudden we were in cap hell and had to get rid of all our stars, and it seemed like our FO was completely surprised by it all and had no idea what they were doing. yup - our only experience with being at the cap was 20 years ago and terrible. plenty of teams manage being on the edge very well, but our fans havent had that comfortable trust in how a front office can push the limits without ruining everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think its also some lingering PTSD from the way the Bills were screwed back when the Salary Cap went into affect back in the 90s. All of a sudden we were in cap hell and had to get rid of all our stars, and it seemed like our FO was completely surprised by it all and had no idea what they were doing. That article is from last night, only contains LeSeans immediate reaction, and has since been smoothed over. He'll be fine and happy. Jim Kelly didnt want to come here either. How? CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 So, McCoy doesnt want to come here: http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/03/will_lesean_mccoy_block_a_trade_to_buffalo_bills.html And people think we could sign DeMarco Murray or Adrian Peterson when 31 other teams can as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Yup, the guys here have eased my concerns about all that! I'm with you on this... eased? Yes. Eliminated? Not quite. Hughes, Cordy, Dareus, Gilmore, etc. won't come cheap. McCoy still needs a line and a threat of a passing game. I'm not a huge fan of tying up too much money in one place (Revis), but we'll cross that cap bridge when we get there. For now I'm going to try to enjoy it and hope for the best. There's certainly a lot to like, but I guess I'm a natural worrier. Edited March 4, 2015 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 @Grantland33: Sorting Out the LeSean McCoyKiko Alonso Trade, by @billbarnwell http://t.co/U2BYtayNi4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I'm with you on this... eased? Yes. Eliminated? Not quite. Hughes, Cordy, Dareus, Gilmore, etc. won't come cheap. McCoy still needs a line and a threat of a running game. I'm not a huge fan of tying up too much money in one place (Revis), but we'll cross that cap bridge when we get there. For now I'm going to try to enjoy it and hope for the best. There's certainly a lot to like, but I guess I'm a natural worrier. instead of looking at it as spending cordys money, look at it as replacing byrds raise. we can still add all those guys down the line. the cap jumped 10m this year and has been projected to go up another 15m (or possibly more) next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 2009 RBs Knowshon Moreno 1 Donald Brown 1 Chris Wells 1 LeSean McCoy 2 Shonn Greene 3 Glen Coffee 3 Mike Goodson 4 Tony Fiammetta 4 Andre Brown 4 Gartrell Johnson 4 Quinn Johnson 5 Frank Summers 5 Javon Ringer 5 Cedric Peerman 6 Aaron Brown 6 James Davis 6 Bernard Scott 6 Chris Ogbonnaya 7 Javarris Williams 7 Fui Vakapuna 7 Eddie Williams 7 Larod Stephens-Howling 7 Rashad Jennings 7 2010 RBs C.J. Spiller 1 Ryan Mathews 1 Jahvid Best 1 Dexter McCluster 2 Toby Gerhart 2 Ben Tate 2 Montario Hardesty 2 Joe McKnight 4 John Conner 5 Anthony Dixon 6 Deji Karim 6 Jonathan Dwyer 6 James Starks 6 Charles Scott 6 Jameson Konz 7 2011 RBs Mark Ingram 1 Ryan Williams 2 Shane Vereen 2 Mikel Leshoure 2 Daniel Thomas 2 Demarco Murray 3 Stevan Ridley 3 Alexander Green 3 Roy Helu 4 Kendall Hunter 4 Delone Carter 4 Owen Marecic 4 Taiwan Jones 4 Bilal Powell 4 Jamie Harper 4 Johnny White 5 Anthony Sherman 5 Jacquizz Rodgers 5 Dion Lewis 5 Charles Clay 6 Evan Royster 6 Jordan Todman 6 Allen Bradford 6 Shaun Chapas 7 Da'Rel Scott 7 Shane Bannon 7 Anthony Allen 7 Baron Batch 7 Stanley Havili 7 Jay Finley 7 2012 RBs Trent Richardson 1 Doug Martin 1 David Wilson 1 Isaiah Pead 2 LaMichael James 2 Ronnie Hillman 3 Bernard Pierce 3 Lamar Miller 4 Robert Turbin 4 Rhett Ellison 4 Bradie Ewing 5 Chris Rainey 5 Vick Ballard 5 Alfred Morris 6 Cyrus Gray 6 Dan Herron 6 Terrance Ganaway 6 Michael Smith 7 Bryce Brown 7 Drake Dunsmore 7 Edwin Baker 7 Daryl Richardson 7 2013 RBs Giovani Bernard 2 Le'veon Bell 2 Montee Ball 2 Eddie Lacy 2 Christine Michael 2 Knile Davis 3 Johnathan Franklin 4 Kyle Juszczyk 4 Marcus Lattimore 4 Stepfan Taylor 5 Joseph Randle 5 Chris Thompson 5 Zachary Stacy 5 Mike Gillislee 5 Latavius Murray 6 Kenjon Barner 6 Andre Ellington 6 Mike James 6 Rex Burkhead 6 Spencer Ware 6 Braden Wilson 6 Tommy Bohanon 7 Jawan Jamison 7 Kerwynn Williams 7 Michael Cox 7 That's a lot of RBs who aren't very good. Especially 2nd and 3rd rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 How? CBF Well, first and foremost, he's had time to calm down and think about it. I guarantee he's not feeling as bad about it today as he was last night. And he wont feel as bad about it tomorrow as he does today. Look, people in general hate change. No player likes surprise trades. Its unsettling and brings in all sorts of levels on uncertainty. The initial reaction is always sour. All these articles talking about McCoy not liking the trade are all about his initial reaction from within an hour of getting the news, and contain NO direct quotes from him. He'll settle down once he has a chance to talk to his long-time friend Doug Whaley. And especially once we talk extending that contract with more guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 How? CBF http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476331/article/bills-to-take-very-good-care-of-lesean-mccoy Cash Money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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