NYS Stadium study favors 4 sites (3 downtown)

[Tsaikotic]

not seeing very much parking in the top 2 pics at all...south park and Orchard park show the best sites for keeping parking and tailgating at the stadium...as an "out-of-towner" I really don't want to park somewhere in the city and walk thru a city I don't know to find the stadium. Plus as some of you have said, $50 - $100 for parking closer to stadium is a definite NO for me...I don't tailgate, but I like the fact that Buffalo is one of the best in the NFL for tailgating and would hate to lose that...

[GOBILLS78]

please explain , how is it throwing money away??

Because you're limiting usage opportunties. For the most bang for the buck, you want to bring in revenue producers more than 8-10 times a year like the Ralph.

[May Day 10]

It's nice to be able to have the discussion without the relocation cloud

[Kirby Jackson]

It's nice to be able to have the discussion without the relocation cloud

Amen

[dwight in philly]

Because you're limiting usage opportunties. For the most bang for the buck, you want to bring in revenue producers more than 8-10 times a year like the Ralph.

ok.. what "revenue producers" do you have in mind? i hear that reason all the time, but have yet to be convinced of what those events would be.

[Kirby Jackson]

not seeing very much parking in the top 2 pics at all...south park and Orchard park show the best sites for keeping parking and tailgating at the stadium...as an "out-of-towner" I really don't want to park somewhere in the city and walk thru a city I don't know to find the stadium. Plus as some of you have said, $50 - $100 for parking closer to stadium is a definite NO for me...I don't tailgate, but I like the fact that Buffalo is one of the best in the NFL for tailgating and would hate to lose that...

You are going to see a different tailgating experience. There will still be some traditional tailgating but it will be more bars and restaurants. It will be similar to a Cleveland. I fear the days of fires in garbage cans are coming to an end.

[sodbuster]

it will be the cobblestone site.

 

it's the closest to pegula's harborcenter.

 

 

should be easy for the sabres to move conflict dates should they arise.

I'm not so sure about that. I reca an article where they interviewed Pegulas advisor, and he talked about a site that Terry wants that sits between the arena and the ballpark. I'll have to look for it, but it was posted on TSW a few months ago.

[May Day 10]

I'm not so sure about that. I reca an article where they interviewed Pegulas advisor, and he talked about a site that Terry wants that sits between the arena and the ballpark. I'll have to look for it, but it was posted on TSW a few months ago.

Yup. It was sawyer. I believe it may have been the exchange street site?

[GOBILLS78]

ok.. what "revenue producers" do you have in mind? i hear that reason all the time, but have yet to be convinced of what those events would be.

That should be their concern, but -- pure speculation here -- concerts, basketball, college bowl game, soccer, supercross, monster trucks, wrestling, et al would all be considered. Not sure how those things would affect what the arena already offers, but typically new, high-profile facilities can attract those things ahead of a 20-year-old arena. Let's not forget that it won't be solely about the stadium. I'm guessing any new facility would be a mecca of sorts for downtown tradeshows, meetings, conferences and the like. The Ralph hosts events maybe 10 weekends a year.

[shibuya]

I do like the river front South Park site. Biggest site and allows other development at the cobblestone area that would be between the 2 venues . You would have his central hub of an enterainment district.

Edited January 18, 2015 by shibuya

[Kelly the Dog]

Interesting. The NFL insists that stadiums are built north and south, so sunlight doesn't effect the games, like getting in players eyes. The Cobblestone one, IIRC, looked to be east and west, that's why it would have to be a dome.

 

http://www.omgfacts.com/lists/10369/NFL-Stadiums-have-to-be-built-North-to-South

[dwight in philly]

That should be their concern, but -- pure speculation here -- concerts, basketball, college bowl game, soccer, supercross, monster trucks, wrestling, et al would all be considered. Not sure how those things would affect what the arena already offers, but typically new, high-profile facilities can attract those things ahead of a 20-year-old arena. Let's not forget that it won't be solely about the stadium. I'm guessing any new facility would be a mecca of sorts for downtown tradeshows, meetings, conferences and the like. The Ralph hosts events maybe 10 weekends a year.

most of what you enumerated could be held at the FNC.. im not against a new stadium necessarily, but very anti dome.. anti roof, anti covered stadium..

[metzelaars_lives]

Anything not a dome is throwing money away. As for the Buffalo River site, I hope they leave the Swannie House alone.

Why do people keep saying this? I live in Denver and Invesco Field or whatever the hell they're calling it these days is used for events all year round. In fact, an outdoor stadium is better for summer events.

[zonabb]

Regarding the Perry Projects, plans are apparently underway. No matter your political affiliation, it's been proven that 1950's-1960's projects need to be torn down & rebuilt with different housing options.

This only supports my argument so I'm unsure what your point is? I stated that "relocation" was not an option and the proposal you speak of is a replacement on site that would allow existing residents to remain. It's a geographic question, not a question of the type of housing. Political affiliation has nothing to do with this, I'm an unaffiliated voter because I think and refuse to align myself with party dogma. Housing isn't, and should never be, a political issue. It's a human issue. Even so, it has not been "proven" that urban renewal projects need to be torn down and rebuilt with different options. Despite the failure of some, many have been successful. I don't trade in generalizations and stereotypes, it's a folly worthy of others. Some fail and some work. Context matters. What has failed (however you suggest we measure failure) in Buffalo probably won't fail in NYC because NYC isn't a dead and dying deindustrialized city with excessive population decline, economic contraction, and continually growing rates of poverty and segregation.

 

The Bills get me away from these conversations, which is why I turn to them as a refuge from the day to day social, economic and political discourse. My point was that no politician anywhere is going to support a project that relocates already marginalized populations and sells the land left behind to regional business elites.

Interesting. The NFL insists that stadiums are built north and south, so sunlight doesn't effect the games, like getting in players eyes. The Cobblestone one, IIRC, looked to be east and west, that's why it would have to be a dome.

 

http://www.omgfacts.com/lists/10369/NFL-Stadiums-have-to-be-built-North-to-South

Cobblestone is north to south, the most north to south of any of them actually. So I'm not sure. Exchange is almost dead on east-west. South Park and the Ralph were more southeast to northwest a la the current stadium. My guess still is shadows.

[boyst]

I like the idea of keeping it at the current location if it is not simply upgraded.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Cobblestone is north to south, the most north to south of any of them actually. So I'm not sure. Exchange is almost dead on east-west. South Park and the Ralph were more southeast to northwest a la the current stadium. My guess still is shadows.

Yeah, it's the Exchange that is east west. That one would seem to have to be the roofed one.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/state-study-focuses-on-three-buffalo-sites-for-bills-stadium-as-well-as-the-ralph-20150118

[May Day 10]

During the afternoon in autumn and winter, the sun typically appears toward the south, no?

 

LookING at the current rws. The sun always seems to be over the southern upper deck there which would put it in the end zone of the cobblestone site

Edited January 18, 2015 by May Day 10

[Augie]

Don't know but I'd venture a guess that it has to do with shadows from adjacent buildings that may project onto the field. The harbor center is tall and west of the proposed site, meaning it would project late afternoon shadows in the fall east onto the stadium. That's all I can come up with. Also could be the same issue southwest with the General Mills buildings.

The old stadium in Dallas had this problem, but the stadium itself caused the lighting issues. Watching a gme form there onTV was an awful experience! Into and out of the sun/shade made it very difficult to adjust to. I suppose camera technology may have improved some since then, but I'm glad they take this into consideration.

[Kelly the Dog]

The old stadium in Dallas had this problem, but the stadium itself caused the lighting issues. Watching a gme form there onTV was an awful experience! Into and out of the sun/shade made it very difficult to adjust to. I suppose camera technology may have improved some since then, but I'm glad they take this into consideration.

Yep. I wonder if the NFL changed its rules because of that stadium. Before the games even started, half would be sunny and half would be shaded, because of the overhanging roof. The new Dolphin stadium looks to both have a roof to deflect sun from the stands, but also be far enough back to not affect the field. I'm sure that was a major consideration and logistics issue/problem.

[boyst]

I like a retractable roof vs fixed roof but if I had to choose fixed or open air I would take the roof. Gives it so many more usage options and I think more people would go to bad weather games. Bad weather is not a HFA for anyone IMO.

This just had me think of something. The cost of cooling the stadium is pretty expensive and being that it doesn't get that hot up there means they could probably save some by making an retractable roof stadium and use that most months of the year saving on cooling.

 

Ok that's what I remember then. The NFL was not open to it. Is it because they don't like the amount of tailgating? Just thinking about KC, GB who did the retrofit successfully.

 

FTR I'm in favor of the brand new downtown stadium.

I expect this to be attributed to the increased revenue of boxes and licensing.

[FistingBot]

Why do people keep saying this? I live in Denver and Invesco Field or whatever the hell they're calling it these days is used for events all year round. In fact, an outdoor stadium is better for summer events.

 

I assume the thought is to do something similar to Atlanta where the domed stadium is connected to the convention center and can be used for larger conferences that need extra space. An outdoor stadium does give you the possibility of other events like national team soccer matches. Pros and cons to each.

[WotAGuy]

Maybe the NFL has stipulations that if the sun is shining the stadium has to be able to be at least half sunlit during the games. Or something like that. Why build an outdoor stadium where there is no sunlight on the field in the middle of the afternoon.

 

How many fall/winter days does Buffalo get sun? Seems like it's cloudy during the better part of most games and the lights are often on during day games from mid-season on. The requirements for north-south orientation makes some sense, but it seems unlikely they would stipulate how much sunlight is on the field during a game.

[pafan]

You are going to see a different tailgating experience. There will still be some traditional tailgating but it will be more bars and restaurants. It will be similar to a Cleveland. I fear the days of fires in garbage cans are coming to an end.

 

And while that experience isn't Buffalo, it isn't a bad thing. I've never gone to a Browns game but my wife and I go to quite a few Cavs games and we absolutely LOVE gameday. The area surrounding the Q is electric in the hours leading to tipoff. There are great opportunities to socialize when barhopping. The area is packed with people who aren't even going to the game (so the bars & restaurants stay busy after tipoff and well past the end of the game) and in our experience you end up talking to a more diverse crowd of people than you do at a Bills tailgate because you're just ponying up next to someone at a bar & not infringing on their personal property (or "private" party as a lot of tailgaters treat their area).

 

I understand that going to this setup would ruin a lot of traditions, it would take a lot of adjustment for some people, and it's definitely not what most Bills fans want. In the end I think people would have just as much fun, though.

[May Day 10]

I'll be on the back 9 of my 40s by that point. The adjustment won't be completely unwelcome

[YoloinOhio]

I'll be on the back 9 of my 40s by that point. The adjustment won't be completely unwelcome

Haha I enjoy tailgating at downtown stadiums. It's different than the Ralph but that's ok. Good memories, but everything moves forward. The new way of tailgating is just as fun. I think if you want to experience something close to the Ralph version, tailgating on campus at a big time college game is as good as it gets.

[Augie]

Haha I enjoy tailgating at downtown stadiums. It's different than the Ralph but that's ok. Good memories, but everything moves forward. The new way of tailgating is just as fun. I think if you want to experience something close to the Ralph version, tailgating on campus at a big time college game is as good as it gets.

Exactly! We were tailgating before an FSU game last season and it made me think of pre-game at the Ralph. It was a blast!

[PromoTheRobot]

There are plenty of spaces around the First Ward where traditional tailgating can continue.

[Woody]

the OP plan pretty much puts the new stadium on top of Sheldon cemetery

I think you could still do it. You'd have to respectfully remove the current remains and, in a dignified manner, relocate them to a new location. You could even use the same cemetery we bury the Patriots, Jets, and Dolphins in next season!

[Dan]

Move the stadium out of OP! Pegula pays for restoration/IndianNative American memorial/dedication park type thing. Have Flutie with golden shovel at new stadium ground breaking ceremony. Curse is lifted. Build architectural rockpile landscape feature thingy at entrance to new stadium.

 

Championship!

[gordong]

You build a stadium downtown and tailgating comes to an end quickly, there is no tailgating in parking ramps.

 

There simply is not enough room for the kind of parking that the Ralph has anywhere downtown. take the size of the parking at the raplh and try to fit it anywhere downtown. You would have to go to NF, or towards Rochester. Can you imagine trying to get to a Stadium in NF, going over those bridges....no thanks. Somewhere east of the city makes the most sense or keep in in OP.

Edited January 18, 2015 by gordong

[beerme1]

Regarding the Perry Projects, plans are apparently underway. No matter your political affiliation, it's been proven that 1950's-1960's projects need to be torn down & rebuilt with different housing options.

Interesting. Even more interesting that I and most others hadn't heard a word about this previously. I'm also guessing since this is 2015 those plans got derailed somewhere. Thanks for the link!!

It's nice to be able to have the discussion without the relocation cloud

Agreed. The stupid editor at the Buffalo News didn't get the memo though. In the editorial today "The pressure is on" "without one the pressure will be back on to move the team" http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/buffalo-news-editorials/look-downtown-new-stadium-for-bills-should-draw-on-and-enhance-the-renaissance-of-buffalo-20150118

What has failed (however you suggest we measure failure) in Buffalo probably won't fail in NYC because NYC isn't a dead and dying deindustrialized city with excessive population decline, economic contraction, and continually growing rates of poverty and segregation.

Talkin proud talkin proud. Buffalo is on the rebound lol I think.

[PastaJoe]

The discussion about a downtown stadium should include a plan to build a convention center; where and how to pay for.

[Ted William's frozen head]

Watch and see it will end up like the Minnesota Vikings Dome. No tailgating, hugely expensive parking and long walks to get the stadium.

Exactly.

[maddenboy]

Underground Parking.

 

I've mentioned it a couple times in various threads. Why not just dig an 8-15 story underground parking structure?

 

Doesnt solve the Tailgaiting issue, but would make parking a non-issue. Ingress and Egress might be a B word, so make multiple exits, with multi-lane paving.

[Mr. WEO]

Underground Parking.

 

I've mentioned it a couple times in various threads. Why not just dig an 8-15 story underground parking structure?

 

Doesnt solve the Tailgaiting issue, but would make parking a non-issue. Ingress and Egress might be a B word, so make multiple exits, with multi-lane paving.

 

 

A 15 story underground garage?? That would take days to get out of...

[John in Jax]

You build a stadium downtown and tailgating comes to an end quickly, there is no tailgating in parking ramps.

 

There simply is not enough room for the kind of parking that the Ralph has anywhere downtown. take the size of the parking at the raplh and try to fit it anywhere downtown. You would have to go to NF, or towards Rochester. Can you imagine trying to get to a Stadium in NF, going over those bridges....no thanks. Somewhere east of the city makes the most sense or keep in in OP.

I don't get up to WNY very often for Bills home games, but your points above seem very astute. I'm sorta surprised at all the support in this thread...and on the board generally....for moving the stadium to a cramped place, and effectively eliminating the unique Buffalo tailgating experience.

[Augie]

A 15 story underground garage?? That would take days to get out of...

By the time you got out it would be time to come back. Just move in when you have back to back home games.

[Augie]

I'm sorta surprised at all the support in this thread...and on the board generally....for moving the stadium to a cramped place, and effectively eliminating the unique Buffalo tailgating experience.

Tailgaiting won't be eliminated, but it will be very different. There are advantages to being in the middle of nowhere with vast open and flat parking lots. There are also advantages to having a current stadium that allows you to remain economically viable so you can stay in WNY. THAT is the driving factor here, I believe. I get back rarely, but I loved the tailgaiting. I can learn to love a nice, new stadium with bars and restaurants nearby as well as some more limited tailgaiting areas. It's going to happen, so there's no point in me me whining about it. I'll just be sure to get back to the Ralph a few times in the remaining seasons it will be in use. For me, a stadium within walking distance of bars, restaurants and my comfy hotel room is a perfect situation. But that's just me as a current out-of-towner.

[PromoTheRobot]

You build a stadium downtown and tailgating comes to an end quickly, there is no tailgating in parking ramps.

 

There simply is not enough room for the kind of parking that the Ralph has anywhere downtown. take the size of the parking at the raplh and try to fit it anywhere downtown. You would have to go to NF, or towards Rochester. Can you imagine trying to get to a Stadium in NF, going over those bridges....no thanks. Somewhere east of the city makes the most sense or keep in in OP.

There's plenty of space in the First Ward and Larkenville. Don't be so dramatic.

Underground Parking.

 

I've mentioned it a couple times in various threads. Why not just dig an 8-15 story underground parking structure?

 

Doesnt solve the Tailgaiting issue, but would make parking a non-issue. Ingress and Egress might be a B word, so make multiple exits, with multi-lane paving.

Security concerns would prohibit underground parking.

[agardin]

I am against an enclosed stadium but then again I dont live or pay taxes in Buffalo.

 

I am torn, I do love the open field tailgating atmosphere the Ralph has but a downtown stadium would have its advantages. Sometimes I get a hotel room downtown so a stroll to the game would be awesome. I would imagine downtown bars and restaurants would be livelier after the game as well.