Watkins getting a little gabby

[Prickly Pete]

I am, by far, one of the last people on this board to throw stones. Believe me. The kid was wrong. I just hope it wasn't calculated.

 

Ha.

 

There isn't enough there to convict, but this thread is full of "GUILTY" verdicts.

[atlbillsfan1975]

It is a Pro football. If If Orton is better than EJ and the Bills play better and win sorry EJ you made Millions of dollars.

I don't think Woods or Sammy said anything wrong. In fact we got our answer about the body language.

[zonabb]

Actually, at the end of the Presser, Sammy said who could have helped EJ out more. He made drops.

 

BTW, his english is terrible. He didnt study while at Clemson!

 

No way, they're STUDENT athletes there on their academic credentials and playing football as a way to pass time until they're accepted into graduate school. Just ask Leodis McKelvin, he'll clearly and eloquently explain it to you, using the Wonderlic test as an example of what student athletes can achieve given his excellent 13, putting him and his Troy education a few points below a warehouse worker.

 

Biggest embarrassment in academics is letting these low achieved into quality school, wringing their athletic talent from them and handing them a bs degree. Love someone to write a paper on where set these d1 scholarship athletes are today. 80 scholarships per school. Where are they? Or better yet, which Walmart, lowes. Home Depot, and target are they working at?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Dude, why not actually find out what he said in it's entirety before making judgements? The comments by themselves aren't even that damning of EJM.

Dude, what did i say that was any different than what Sammy said? I think my comments are fair. Besides, I like Sammy. I don't think the Cat placed this in the Ray Rice category, and I certainly don't, it's just a simple in-season observation. If they come back and provide an unedited quote where Sammy said something different, I'll take my medicine.

 

i know what Peyton manning does to his WRs when that happens. He rips them a new one.

 

Exactly.

 

I stand by my comments. I think this board is filled with people that are overly anxious to throw stones.

 

If you wanna run Watkins out of town for this, that's up to you.

 

There isn't enough there for it to be some kind of "serious transgression of the professional code" or some such nonsense.

 

 

WGAF

 

 

My goodness. You see any of this as evidence that Sammy should be run out of town? And, you throw stones at folks with different opinions than yours and accuse them of throwing stones? The irony is delicious.

Edited October 2, 2014 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[Bronc24]

 

 

While I don't disagree with the spirit of your critique, you'll never hear a complaint from me about players talking cliches.

 

Players being candid about other players, however...that's different.

 

 

 

If it's that obvious, then it doesn't need to be said...by a rookie.

 

Cuz, ya know.

 

Now we have this:

 

http://t.co/lGpZ1eFFR9

 

I hope I notice a big difference, too.

[LB3]

Anything that touches his hands he needs to catch. Something he hasn't done frankly. Everybody knows his job is QB dependent but when balls are there to be caught, he needs to catch them if he wants to avoid the incessant "we mortgaged the future" crap he's bound to hear otherwise.

 

In the meantime, STFU and carry my luggage, rook!

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

This.

 

He's flashed well but the drops and the pouting like a little b**** needs to stop.

[Prickly Pete]

Dude, what did i say that was any different than what Sammy said? I think my comments are fair. Besides, I like Sammy. I don't think the Cat placed this in the Ray Rice category, and I certainly don't, it's just a simple in-season observation. If they come back and provide an unedited quote where Sammy said something different, I'll take my medicine.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

 

My goodness. You see any of this as evidence that Sammy should be run out of town? And, you throw stones at folks with different opinions than yours and accuse them of throwing stones? The irony is delicious.

 

Meh, go jump in the lake.

 

(No, I don't mean actually go jump into the lake)

[JC2002]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000404083/article/watkins-sees-differences-between-orton-and-manuel

 

"We just had a different approach to practice," wide receiver Sammy Watkins said, according to ESPN.com. "(Orton) demands what he wants out of us. He's more of a veteran guy. The way he talked, the way he handles business, the way he looks at plays and breaks down defenses, it's kind of different than EJ.

 

"He reads it quicker, the ball is coming out faster. That's just some things that we have to adjust to."

 

Doesn't sound that bad

 

and Woods

 

"His directness in the huddle," he said, "telling us what to look for and be ready for when we're breaking the huddle when he calls the play."

 

When talking about a veteran and a young player the things they mentioned are pretty much to be expected .

[Uncle Joe]

I like the part about Orton talking in the huddle about what to look for when they approach the LOS.

 

Is there any way the NFL would allow EJ to shadow Orton for the game...maybe hold a yellow legal pad, stand next to him in shotgun, take notes, listen in on the huddle and be a casual observer???

 

No dice. "What happens in the huddle stays in the huddle" - Kyle Orton.

[Gugny]

http://www.nfl.com/n...rton-and-manuel

 

 

 

Doesn't sound that bad

 

and Woods

 

 

 

When talking about a veteran and a young player the things they mentioned are pretty much to be expected .

Certainly you can notice how Watkins makes a comparison and Woods does not.

 

That's the issue, here.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Meh, go jump in the lake.

 

(No, I don't mean actually go jump into the lake)

 

Why the flippant response? You responded to me, I just responded back. What did I say about Sammy that was the least bit controversial? I understand you think his comments have been taken out of context, I'm not even fighting you on that. Maybe he was misquoted. I just scanned the vairous responses for anyone calling for his head on a platter and I don't see it. You really see it as unfair to even question his remarks?

[Kellyto83TD]

I think the young buck has some things to learn about big internal decisions like switching QB's:

 

mikerodak

Watkins: “The way he talked, the way he handles business, the way he looks at plays and breaks down defenses, it’s kinda different than EJ."

 

mikerodak

Sammy Watkins on Kyle Orton today in practice: “He reads it quicker, the ball is coming out faster

 

 

Rather annoying that Rodak has the exclusivity on these quotes, but, ya know.

 

 

For Sammy, this would have been a good opportunity to take some pages out of the vets' playbooks:

 

mikerodak

Mike Williams on WRs’ role in EJ benching: “We feel like we could have did more … It wasn’t our decision, but it wasn’t our actions either."

 

 

buffalobills

@Fred22Jackson: "I don't focus on the changes being made. I focus on what I can do to make us better." pic.twitter.com/ryP83uXZwP

 

 

buffalobills

@Fred22Jackson: "This isn't just about EJ. As an offense, we need to get the job done."

 

 

MEANWHILE:

 

 

JoeBuscaglia

Q: Kyle, why will you run this offense better than EJ?

 

A: I'm not saying that I will. That's a loaded question. That's a crap question.

 

I love Sammy's responses, he is telling the truth. That is refreshing.

[FLbills]

 

 

That article makes me happy. Because it sounds like good things for the team. The perceived negatives to EJ don't matter to me as much as the Bills winning.

 

My take on it is that Sammy was referring to timing. Whether they have the timing in sync is another question.

[Fan in Chicago]

Agree. Him and his boy butterfingers mike might have cost EJ a career with those BS easy drops to start the game.

 

I have a huge problem with him mouthing off (indirectly) about EJ but the above is the one I have the most problem with. He needs to give 100% every time he is on the field and help his QB out. He does not get to choose who is QB is.

[Deranged Rhino]

After watching the full press conference on the team site, this is really being overblown.

[Fan in Chicago]

Thinking is one thing. Telling the media is entirely different. And why would anyone NOT want the kid to succeed? I sure as hell do.

Agree to this as well. EJ may not have football smarts but he is a very hard worker and a stand-up guy. People and especially his team mates need to have the class to appreciate it.

[Deranged Rhino]

Agree to this as well. EJ may not have football smarts but he is a very hard worker and a stand-up guy. People and especially his team mates need to have the class to appreciate it.

 

There was absolutely nothing in Sammy's answers that implied, or stated, he doesn't appreciate EJ. He answered questions about Orton, stressing the difference is in experience.

[Fan in Chicago]

There was absolutely nothing in Sammy's answers that implied, or stated, he doesn't appreciate EJ. He answered questions about Orton, stressing the difference is in experience.

 

I see a big difference in the way Woods and Watkins answered the questions. Watkins was making a comparison and Woods was simply commenting on Orton. If he had made the tough catches, I wouldn't have been so hard on him. This is not about EJ . it is about a rookie who has proven little in real games, admitted to taking a play off in the SD game and had drops that changed the early course of the Texans game. He, of all people, needs to appreciate a hard worker, however lower skilled.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

After watching the full press conference on the team site, this is really being overblown.

 

This.

 

The overall interview was focused on the differences between Orton and EJ in terms of cadence, chemistry with so little time, and would they be able to adjust and get ready in time. The reporter harped on "you said it was different. How was it different?" and pushed the point. Sammy's answers were in the context of "he's more of a veteran guy", "he demands what he wants of us in routes", "the ball comes out quicker" "we need to adjust" "we need to get on the same page". It didn't come across at all as Watkins criticizing EJ or throwing him under the bus or making unflattering comparisons.

 

At the end of the interview with Watkins:

"Were you surprised to hear that EJ was benched?"

"Yeah, of course. I don't think he played bad in the games that we lost. It's just some little things that he missed here and there. And of course it's even (better -sic) if you're losing. That's just how the NFL is, it's a business, and it's just something I got to get prepared for". His body language and eyes suggested he was genuinely surprised and perhaps even a little dismayed at how short EJ's leash was, and not hiding "good riddence, Loser" - even taking it personally, that he needs to play better himself or NFL stands for Not For Long.

 

After watching the interview, I feel better about Watkins as a teammate and player.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Hopeful

[Deranged Rhino]

I see a big difference in the way Woods and Watkins answered the questions. Watkins was making a comparison and Woods was simply commenting on Orton. If he had made the tough catches, I wouldn't have been so hard on him. This is not about EJ . it is about a rookie who has proven little in real games, admitted to taking a play off in the SD game and had drops that changed the early course of the Texans game. He, of all people, needs to appreciate a hard worker, however lower skilled.

 

You should listen to the full press conference, I think you'd see what I'm saying. Watkins doesn't compare them -- the reporter who asked the question did. Sammy answered him after trying NOT to compare them twice. Then, he closes it by saying he has to make more plays and it's not all on EJ.

[Uncle Monkeyhead]

Refreshing to hear the truth. These are people. Individuals with real thoughts and opinions. I think the safe cliche route of answerring questions makes me feel like I just wasted my time listening or watching. Talk on, Sammy.

And btw, Sammy did say he could do better himself.

Edited October 2, 2014 by UncleMonkeyHead

[NewEra]

It's all true. Sammy could've played it better, but he's telling the truth. The truth that most of us here saw. Ej just doesn't look Ike a starting nfl QB most of the time. Even when he looks good......he really doesn't. Maybe that's just my opinion and is the minority opinion, but I'd really hate to be watching football through the minority's eyes. It's obvious. Ej needs a lot of work. Is his career as a starter over? Maybe. Does he have a chance to become a good nfl starting QB? Sure. Is he good enough to make our passing game credible enough for defensive coordinators to respect our pass and not stack the box? Not right now. I believe we made the correct move. So does sammy. Don't crucify the kid for stating his opinion when a reporter asks him for his opinion. Sure, he could've played it better. I still love the kid

[Freddie's Dead]

I think the young buck has some things to learn about big internal decisions like switching QB's:

 

mikerodak

Watkins: “The way he talked, the way he handles business, the way he looks at plays and breaks down defenses, it’s kinda different than EJ."

 

mikerodak

Sammy Watkins on Kyle Orton today in practice: “He reads it quicker, the ball is coming out faster

 

These quotes show a lack of maturity on Sammy's part. As others have pointed out, when he trots out all the -er adjectives, he's clearly comparing Orton to EJ. This is not done in a professional locker room. Hopefully Fred will take the young man aside and teach him the cliches like Crash taught Nuke. EJ did not hang Sammy or the Caveman out to dry for the drops, Sammy should have returned the favor. Bad enough these guys act like spoiled brats on the field. This type of behavior rips a team apart. It will be interesting to see how they react if Orton lays a turd, or has a bad game like EJ. If they react the same way, then this season is over, and we still haven't replaced the losers in the locker room.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I think the young buck has some things to learn about big internal decisions like switching QB's:

 

mikerodak

Watkins: “The way he talked, the way he handles business, the way he looks at plays and breaks down defenses, it’s kinda different than EJ."

 

mikerodak

Sammy Watkins on Kyle Orton today in practice: “He reads it quicker, the ball is coming out faster

 

 

Rather annoying that Rodak has the exclusivity on these quotes, but, ya know.

 

 

For Sammy, this would have been a good opportunity to take some pages out of the vets' playbooks:

 

mikerodak

Mike Williams on WRs’ role in EJ benching: “We feel like we could have did more … It wasn’t our decision, but it wasn’t our actions either."

 

 

buffalobills

@Fred22Jackson: "I don't focus on the changes being made. I focus on what I can do to make us better." pic.twitter.com/ryP83uXZwP

 

 

buffalobills

@Fred22Jackson: "This isn't just about EJ. As an offense, we need to get the job done."

 

 

MEANWHILE:

 

 

JoeBuscaglia

Q: Kyle, why will you run this offense better than EJ?

 

A: I'm not saying that I will. That's a loaded question. That's a crap question.

 

Whatever, I want to hear what they really think not the company line BS.

[zazie]

If EJ is very lucky, he can parlay his 14 games of experience into a long time back up role. Like the next 10 years.

 

Get paid, without getting concussed.

 

Maybe his luckiest day was last Sunday.

[bbb]

If EJ is very lucky, he can parlay his 14 games of experience into a long time back up role. Like the next 10 years.

 

Get paid, without getting concussed.

 

Maybe his luckiest day was last Sunday.

 

ala Todd Collins

[GG]

After watching the full press conference on the team site, this is really being overblown.

 

Imagine that.

[Sisyphean Bills]

After watching the full press conference on the team site, this is really being overblown.

Not to mention that if EJ Manuel is completely destroyed by someone pointing out Kyle Orton is a veteran, then it's not really the vocalization of that overt reality that is the problem.

[JM57]

 

 

ala Todd Collins

 

Todd Collins did it even better, he was a 3rd stringer for a good long while after. Buffalo until those last few years of his career. Collecting checks and holding clipboards.

[bobobonators]

JoeBuscaglia

Q: Kyle, why will you run this offense better than EJ?

 

A: I'm not saying that I will. That's a loaded question. That's a crap question.

 

[boyst]

6 pages on **** Rodhack tweeted??

 

You all disappoint me. Terribly ashamed so many of you fell for this.

[FLFan]

Whatever, I want to hear what they really think not the company line BS.

Really? They are not on the Jerry Springer show, they are part of a professional football team. What I want is for them to win. For that they need to develop team chemistry including trust for one another. It is the essence of a team sport. I could not care less what they really think, so long as they win.

[The Big Cat]

6 pages on **** Rodhack tweeted??

 

You all disappoint me. Terribly ashamed so many of you fell for this.

 

I'll go ahead and own this. If one thing is to be learned from this thread: When something is being "reported" exclusively through tweets from Mike Rodak, it's !@#$ing bull ****.

Edited October 2, 2014 by The Big Cat

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I'll go ahead and own this. If one thing is to be learned from this thread: When something is being "reported" exclusively through tweets from Mike Rodak, it's !@#$ing bull ****.

 

Well, maybe at least check out buffalobills.com to see if they have the full interview there before taking it at face value. Rodak lives for sh** stirring.

[boyst]

I'll go ahead and own this. If one thing is to be learned from this thread: When something is being "reported" exclusively through tweets from Mike Rodak, it's !@#$ing bull ****.

yeah bro. I'd close this thread down if I were you. It is amazingly BS.

 

We all whine why we never hear this late breaking gossip like we get out of NY, Dallas, Chicago, Miami and other such places where the gossip machine runs rampant. We do not have it because we have real journalists. Sullivan and Tim Graham are miles ahead of their league counterparts. They may be negative and they may spit on fans, from our perspective, but they report the real story without making up stories. I'd take Trapasso over Rodack, Walker and others at ESPN. Schefter is a good example of how to behave when you break stories - source someone else. That someone else is often a Rodhack level twit.

 

I'd love to have JW's inside take.

[Tyrod's Tailor]

I'd love to have JW's inside take.

 

You had to read between the lines, but his take on the quarterback situation was posted here in August and seems quite prescient in hindsight.

[boyst]

You had to read between the lines, but his take on the quarterback situation was posted here in August and seems quite prescient in hindsight.

I vaguely remember it. Would you be so kind to link it? I'm going to look for it, as well.

 

JW has been semi-quiet on some of this drama that outside sources have been reporting. I find that interesting.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 pages on **** Rodhack tweeted??

 

You all disappoint me. Terribly ashamed so many of you fell for this.

 

Disappointed and ashamed, maybe, but are you surprised? It all plays into the prevelant memes that EJ is sh** on a shingle, that WR agree and are lobbying for him to be replaced, and that (mosty improbably) Orton is WonderBoy who will lead us to the promised land of playoffs despite having minimal time in the playbook or to get on the same page with the wideouts.

 

I dunno, maybe Orton is a needed change and will do better behind our OL - as a vet, he should be faster at processing what he sees and running through his progressions, so even if he's about the same % completion as EJ and the OL is the same, maybe it will be a change for the better. But all the rest of the stuff people shove into this is in their own minds. Rookie QB not named Luck get benched, sit and learn, and live to throw another day all the time. NFL WR are competitive, all of them want the ball every play, and many of them show frustration with any QB who isn't giving them the ball unless the team is disciplined enough and the culture such that they know such displays will land them in shun city.

 

One thing I'm surprised about is no one has pointed at the FItzpatrick factor in all of this. Fitz was let go in favor of the new kid in town, Kolb, and now Orton. Given what Fitz signed for in Tenn and Houston, it's probable we could have overall spent less money on him than on Kolb and Orton and certainly got more than we got out of Kolb.

 

Fitz just returned starting for a new team with a pedigreed OC, showed he was the better QB than EJ at this point and it wasn't close. That's "egg on your face" for the front office IMO, unless they can prove signing Orton was a smart move.

[Tyrod's Tailor]

I vaguely remember it. Would you be so kind to link it? I'm going to look for it, as well.

 

JW has been semi-quiet on some of this drama that outside sources have been reporting. I find that interesting.

 

 

Turns out you didn't need to read between the lines: here's just one example. There are many others. Sorry for format.

 

Posted by john wawrow on 25 August 2014 - 01:23 PM in The Stadium Wall

 

PromoTheRobot, on 25 August 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

 

I agree EJ is inconsistent, but I'm trying to breakdown why. What I and others saw were plays that broke down at the line of scrimmage which impacted a relatively inexperienced QB. When people say "EJ sucks" the implication that all is well but for EJ. That nothing that the other 10 players do matters because everything is ultimately EJ's responsibility. Chandler slips and falls? EJ's fault. CJ fumbles after a catch? EJ's fault. Unblocked rushers tipping passes? EJ's fault. John, you've covered the Bills long enough to know better. Are you telling us the rest of the offense played great Saturday?

 

 

what i'm suggesting is however poorly the offense played in the first half on Saturday, there was a distinct lack of ownership for the troubles continuing to come from the supposed leader, whether it was post-game or in-game (when Fred Jackson huddled up the offense on the sideline to try to inspire them).

there seems to be no clear accountability coming from that position, and it's raising further questions in regards to whether EJ can ever develop into a starter.

 

jw

Edited October 2, 2014 by billsfaninmanhattan

[BigBuff423]

I think the young buck has some things to learn about big internal decisions like switching QB's:

 

mikerodak

Watkins: “The way he talked, the way he handles business, the way he looks at plays and breaks down defenses, it’s kinda different than EJ."

 

mikerodak

Sammy Watkins on Kyle Orton today in practice: “He reads it quicker, the ball is coming out faster

 

 

Rather annoying that Rodak has the exclusivity on these quotes, but, ya know.

 

 

For Sammy, this would have been a good opportunity to take some pages out of the vets' playbooks:

 

mikerodak

Mike Williams on WRs’ role in EJ benching: “We feel like we could have did more … It wasn’t our decision, but it wasn’t our actions either."

 

 

buffalobills

@Fred22Jackson: "I don't focus on the changes being made. I focus on what I can do to make us better." pic.twitter.com/ryP83uXZwP

 

 

buffalobills

@Fred22Jackson: "This isn't just about EJ. As an offense, we need to get the job done."

 

 

MEANWHILE:

 

 

JoeBuscaglia

Q: Kyle, why will you run this offense better than EJ?

 

A: I'm not saying that I will. That's a loaded question. That's a crap question.

 

I think I understand your point about Watkins' statements, but at the same time, I don't think he intended it as a "dig" at EJ, but more an observation about what has changed...now certainly, we all read it as a criticism, but I don't think his intent was malicious, just not careful about choosing his words to indicate the difference between the two....also agreed though, that media interviews take some savvy and realize you're not at Clemson anymore, all of your words are amplified, and that takes time, IMO...