The Unpopular Opinion. RB - Fred Jackson

[CountDorkula]

This may not sit well with some/most but I am completely ok with that.

 

I am in the belief that Fred Jackson should be moved down the depth chart. Possibly all the way down.

 

CJ Spiller is undoubtedly this teams first string running back, IMO. Last year was a down year (Allegedly) (1st in NFL in 40+ yd runs) (2nd in NFL in 20+ yd runs)

 

The backup role should go to Bryce Brown. He has the speed that Fred lacks and can also be considered a home run threat. He has been clocked sub 4.4 in the 40 yd dash.

 

Speed cannot be taught in the NFL and with Freds age, that is going to be the first thing to go, and has also never been Freds Strong suit.

 

Third string is where some will question me and (Most likely) call me an idiot. Boobie Dixon should be the short yardage back. His size and strength can be unstoppable at times. Lining Dixon and Summers in the backfield in goal line/short yardage situations is 500Lbs of downhill force. I firmly believe that if Dixon is in the game during those 4 rushing attempts he gets in the end zone. and the Bills first string offense walks away with a touchdown.

 

With all that said Jackson is without question, a leader in the locker room on this team. And with that said I will take talent over leadership on the field.

 

Freds age will catch up with him, and sooner rather than later.

 

My Rb depth chart currently looks as follows:

1- Spiller

2 - Brown

3 - Dixon

4 - Jackson

 

 

 

 

Puts on hard hat and pads and waits for attack.

[Captain Caveman]

Let me start by saying that I love FJ, and what he brings to the team. With that said, I have no problem with Brown overtaking FJ (or CJ) if he shows it this year. With that said, I think it's too early to make that determination right now.

 

Brown will get chances, and if he takes advantage and shows more than the other backs I fully expect he'll be moved up.

[CodeMonkey]

CJ Spiller is undoubtedly this teams first string running back

You lost me right here.

A first string RB that cannot run between the tackles at all?

Edited August 11, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[1B4IDie]

This is not fantasy football. This is real football.

 

FJ, CJ and Brown will all get carries throughout the season.

 

The depth chart is irrelevant.

[CountDorkula]

You lost me right here.

A first string RB that cannot run between the tackles at all?

This is inaccurate. CJ leads the league in 20+ and 40+ yard carries over the last 2 years. I could see if every time he ran up the middle he lost yards you could say that. Is it his strong suit, no. But he can and has shown the ability to do so.

 

This is not fantasy football. This is real football.

 

FJ, CJ and Brown will all get carries throughout the season.

 

The depth chart is irrelevant.

 

I never said it was. I was talking carries touches per game. CJ and Brown should get the majority while Dixon gets most of the short yardage work. The Best players should be on the field, and I feel given each players abilities Fred lacks in some areas. This is NOT a knock on Freddy, I just think the Bills have great depth at RB and are set up for the future nicely.

[BillsBackersChicago]

was ur opinion not ridiculed enough in the FJ disgruntled comments thread that you had to start a new thread where it could really shine?

 

CJ cannot run up the middle (or has not been able to do so in the gross majority of seasons he has been in the NFL). Until he can, he will never be a primary back. Brown has to prove himself in real NFL games the way fred has season after season before he can supplant him. dixon is a short yardage back who can also catch...not all purpose.

 

FJ's role as a #1 or at least co-#1 back is secure for the time being.

 

You do remember cj getting 2 yards in the first preseason game when he tried to go up the middle?

 

This is inaccurate. CJ leads the league in 20+ and 40+ yard carries over the last 2 years. I could see if every time he ran up the middle he lost yards you could say that. Is it his strong suit, no. But he can and has shown the ability to do so.

 

Him leading the league in 20+ 40+ yard carries has ABSOLUTELY nothing with his ability to (or lack thereof) to run between the tackles. He can certainly hit the home run. No one can argue that. But he sucks at getting reliable yardage between the tackles (enough to move the chains). The type of every down ability that at least one of your primary back needs to have.

[CountDorkula]

was ur opinion not ridiculed enough in the FJ disgruntled comments thread that you had to start a new thread where it could really shine?

 

CJ cannot run up the middle (or has not been able to do so in the gross majority of seasons he has been in the NFL). Until he can, he will never be a primary back. Brown has to prove himself in real NFL games the way fred has season after season before he can supplant him. dixon is a short yardage back who can also catch...not all purpose.

 

FJ's role as a #1 or at least co-#1 back is secure for the time being.

 

You do remember cj getting 2 yards in the first preseason game when he tried to go up the middle?

 

You do remember FJ getting 0 yds on 4 attempts and not scoring a touchdown on the 1 yard line? I can knit pick stats too. What does not lie is CJ had outperformed Fred on every level for the last 2 years. Stats back that up. When Fred leads the league in 20+ and 40+ yd runs the way CJ does, your point will hold a little more water.

 

Watch some highlights of Brown in Philly. He was great. He was just behind arguably the best back in the NFL in McCoy.

 

 

 

Also one person agreed/ one person disagreed. SO i decided to start a thread dedicated to it to see the fans take. You took the time to type out a response to this thread when you could have ignored it.

Edited August 11, 2014 by CountDorkula

[ChicagoRic]

It's an unpopular opinion because until proven otherwise, he is our best *complete* running back, despite his age and lack of pedigree.

Not the fastest, not the flashiest, but a master at his craft.

 

I need to know more about Brown and Dixon before that change is made. We know they can run.

 

Can they block?

Can they pick up blitzes?

Can they catch balls out of the backfield?

Will they play though nagging injuries?

Can they lead by example and have the respect of the entire team?

 

Jackson does all of these things and is still highly effective.

 

Yes, eventually his age will catch up to him, but until then he has earned his spot on the chart.

 

I expect to see plenty of Brown and Dixon in relief duty. If they shine, they will get more carries, but right now it's too soon to bench Jackson

[CountDorkula]

It's an unpopular opinion because until proven otherwise, he is our best *complete* running back, despite his age and lack of pedigree.

Not the fastest, not the flashiest, but a master at his craft.

 

I need to know more about Brown and Dixon before that change is made. We know they can run.

 

Can they block?

Can they pick up blitzes?

Can they catch balls out of the backfield?

Will they play though nagging injuries?

Can they lead by example and have the respect of the entire team?

 

Jackson does all of these things and is still highly effective.

 

Yes, eventually his age will catch up to him, but until then he has earned his spot on the chart.

 

I expect to see plenty of Brown and Dixon in relief duty. If they shine, they will get more carries, but right now it's too soon to bench Jackson

 

I think this is my main concern is when does that happen? Because normally it is just out of nowhere from one year to the next the productivity just drops. I see that 33 number next to his age and I get concerned (Rightfully or wrongfully I don't know) History has shown me RBs around his age fall off the proverbial cliff.

[ChicagoRic]

Yes, you are concerned about his age, he is is oldest RB in the NFL. He is an aberration.

It's a valid concern and eventually someone will be right that "this is the year we will fall off the cliff." We heard have heard this for 3-4 years now.

 

That being said, he continues to produce as a complete back works hard to stay on the field.

He may hit the wall this year and he may not, but right now he is our co-starter.

[Dorkington]

I'm hoping that CJ, FJax, and Brown split reps fairly evenly, should keep them fresh. I like the idea of Dixon being short yardage or even as a "poor man's" FB for dual threat.

 

I'm not overly concerned about depth charts, our current situation is certainly better than when we had Choice backing up a banged up CJ and FJax.

[Sherrif John Brown]

I love Freddy, we all do! BUT I agree that as the season plays out his role will be drastically reduced.

Go Bills!

[FireChan]

Of course, the RB who had 2 TD's and was 42nd in first downs last year is the unquestioned starter. And the RB with a career high 9 TD's and top ten in first downs needs to be moved down the depth chart.

 

Hey OP, I got a new topic for ya. Robert Woods needs to be moved down the depth chart for TJ Graham.

[John from Riverside]

This is going to play itself out on the field......

 

Fred Jackson is going to play well and he is going to get dinged up because he is a older back.....and rather then run him into the ground we have RB's in the bullpen so we dont have to have any one player missing games due to bad injuries

[FireChan]

This may not sit well with some/most but I am completely ok with that.

 

I am in the belief that Fred Jackson should be moved down the depth chart. Possibly all the way down.

 

CJ Spiller is undoubtedly this teams first string running back, IMO. Last year was a down year (Allegedly) (1st in NFL in 40+ yd runs) (2nd in NFL in 20+ yd runs)

 

The backup role should go to Bryce Brown. He has the speed that Fred lacks and can also be considered a home run threat. He has been clocked sub 4.4 in the 40 yd dash.

 

Speed cannot be taught in the NFL and with Freds age, that is going to be the first thing to go, and has also never been Freds Strong suit.

 

Third string is where some will question me and (Most likely) call me an idiot. Boobie Dixon should be the short yardage back. His size and strength can be unstoppable at times. Lining Dixon and Summers in the backfield in goal line/short yardage situations is 500Lbs of downhill force. I firmly believe that if Dixon is in the game during those 4 rushing attempts he gets in the end zone. and the Bills first string offense walks away with a touchdown.

 

With all that said Jackson is without question, a leader in the locker room on this team. And with that said I will take talent over leadership on the field.

 

Freds age will catch up with him, and sooner rather than later.

 

My Rb depth chart currently looks as follows:

1- Spiller

2 - Brown

3 - Dixon

4 - Jackson

 

 

 

 

Puts on hard hat and pads and waits for attack.

 

Do you really think an RB's worth is measured in just 20+ yard runs?

[FLFan]

You lost me right here.

A first string RB that cannot run between the tackles at all?

I believe the first run against the Panthers the other night was between the tackles and went for a significant gain. The knock that he cannot run between the tackles is a bit of misnomer, although he is certainly not a power back. He (and anyone else) does need at least some blocking to occur. That was the major problem last year.

[CountDorkula]

Of course, the RB who had 2 TD's and was 42nd in first downs last year is the unquestioned starter. And the RB with a career high 9 TD's and top ten in first downs needs to be moved down the depth chart.

 

Hey OP, I got a new topic for ya. Robert Woods needs to be moved down the depth chart for TJ Graham.

 

Yes because that is the exact same thing. This is why this board is intolerable at times. Instead of just offering a counter opinion people such as yourself have to go to the extreme. I love how you belittle my fact of 20 and 40 + yd runs and say its not the way you measure a back. yet you give first downs and touchdowns as an example. Which can be skewed statistics.

 

Perhaps we should go YPC where CJ still bests FJ.

[Campy]

<snip>

CJ Spiller is undoubtedly this teams first string running back, IMO. Last year was a down year (Allegedly) (1st in NFL in 40+ yd runs) (2nd in NFL in 20+ yd runs)

<snip>

 

You have an interesting hypothesis, and I think CJ's struggles running between the tackles is a fair counter.

 

In regards to the stat you posted above, do you know how many of those 20+ and 40+ yard runs went between the tackles?

[FireChan]

 

 

Yes because that is the exact same thing. This is why this board is intolerable at times. Instead of just offering a counter opinion people such as yourself have to go to the extreme. I love how you belittle my fact of 20 and 40 + yd runs and say its not the way you measure a back. yet you give first downs and touchdowns as an example. Which can be skewed statistics.

 

Perhaps we should go YPC where CJ still bests FJ.

 

It's an opinion based on what? Fred will slow down eventually? The guy just had a career year.

 

First downs and TD's are arguably the two most important stats an RB can get. I don't hold 20+ yard runs in the same regard, although you're free to challenge me.

 

To me, Fred is a 3,4,4,7,4,6,2,12 runner. CJ is a 1, 2, 1, 0, 1, 30 runner. Now, if you disagree with that, fine. But based on the types of runners they are, CJ isn't a first string anything. And I haven't even gotten to football IQ or blocking ability.

 

 

[DC Greg]

Let me start by saying that I love FJ, and what he brings to the team. With that said, I have no problem with Brown overtaking FJ (or CJ) if he shows it this year. With that said, I think it's too early to make that determination right now.

 

Brown will get chances, and if he takes advantage and shows more than the other backs I fully expect he'll be moved up.

 

This. Fred still sees the field very well. If there are holes to run through, he's a guy you can count on to make the right cuts and get solid yards. His strength has always been getting three more yards than it appeared possible to get on any play. If you start to see a trend of going down on first contact and not being able to pick up those extra yards, his strength as an NFL running back will be severely diminished. He doesn't have the speed, agility, or power of the other backs on the roster. He has great football sense, takes care of the ball, and manages to escape from tackles in space and lurch forward for bonus yards that other backs don't get. He's still shown he can do it, so until that is not the case, I say give him his touches.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

I think this is my main concern is when does that happen? Because normally it is just out of nowhere from one year to the next the productivity just drops. I see that 33 number next to his age and I get concerned (Rightfully or wrongfully I don't know) History has shown me RBs around his age fall off the proverbial cliff.

 

 

Yes because that is the exact same thing. This is why this board is intolerable at times. Instead of just offering a counter opinion people such as yourself have to go to the extreme. I love how you belittle my fact of 20 and 40 + yd runs and say its not the way you measure a back. yet you give first downs and touchdowns as an example. Which can be skewed statistics.

 

Perhaps we should go YPC where CJ still bests FJ.

YPP is the way to go, and Jackson averaged 5.05 to Spiller's 4.9. Also, bear in mind that a high number of TDs negatively affects YPP - the runner may still be upright and able to run further, but the play is over. Jackson had 8 more plays than Spiller last year when the goal line ended the forward progress.

 

Simply put, Jackson has far better field vision and is a better receiver.

Edited August 11, 2014 by dave mcbride

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

YPP is the way to go, and Jackson averaged 5.05 to Spiller's 4.9. Also, bear in mind that a high number of TDs negatively affects YPP - the runner may still be upright and able to run further, but the play is over. Jackson had 8 more plays than Spiller last year when the goal line ended the forward progress.

 

Simply put, Jackson has far better field vision and is a better receiver.

 

Ask the QBs who'd they rather have in there. Fred picks up blitzes maybe better than any back in league. He chips linebackers on the way into a pattern and almost lnocks them on their arse. He squirts through and squirms his way for a few extra yards.

 

If you are just handing the ball off for a sweep, spiller is your guy, brown is next in line. If you are talking any other facet of the game, Freddie is hard to beat.

 

No matter how it shakes out he is the absolute best third down back on the team for now.

[Big Gun]

For whatever reason it seems CJ gets brought down to the ground very easy. It seems like he never sheds tacklers or breaks tackles. IDK, just frustrating.

[FireChan]

Ask the QBs who'd they rather have in there. Fred picks up blitzes maybe better than any back in league. He chips linebackers on the way into a pattern and almost lnocks them on their arse. He squirts through and squirms his way for a few extra yards.

 

If you are just handing the ball off for a sweep, spiller is your guy, brown is next in line. If you are talking any other facet of the game, Freddie is hard to beat.

 

No matter how it shakes out he is the absolute best third down back on the team for now.

 

Don't forget his football IQ. I don't think there's another RB on the roster who would have purposely dropped that ball against Carolina.

[CodeMonkey]

For whatever reason it seems CJ gets brought down to the ground very easy. It seems like he never sheds tacklers or breaks tackles. IDK, just frustrating.

Spiller is a small quick skatback. Not a power runner. No surprises here. 3rd and 1 is not what he is there for.

[John from Riverside]

I believe the first run against the Panthers the other night was between the tackles and went for a significant gain. The knock that he cannot run between the tackles is a bit of misnomer, although he is certainly not a power back. He (and anyone else) does need at least some blocking to occur. That was the major problem last year.

 

In no way am I dogging CJ Spiller here because that was a very good run.....but the defense was REALLY spread out on that play.

 

Where CJ gets into trouble is when has to run IN TRAFFIC between the tackles.....hat play was a perfect illustration of how he should be used...in space

[Dorkington]

For whatever reason it seems CJ gets brought down to the ground very easy. It seems like he never sheds tacklers or breaks tackles. IDK, just frustrating.

 

I think he lead, or was close to the top, in yards after contact in 2012.

 

https://www.profootb.../#ElusiveRating

 

Not saying this makes him a power back, but I think he's not an easy tackle... last year the offense changed, and he had a bum wheel. We'll see if Hackett can learn to use him correctly, and if CJ's health will return.

 

Edit: And on the counter, Fred is called out for his elusiveness in this 2012 article

 

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/01/three-years-of-the-elusive-rating/

Edited August 11, 2014 by Dorkington

[John from Riverside]

As far as blitz pickup......I actually think the only back that ISNT capable of doing that well is Spiller.

 

Boobie....Brown....Jackson.....all of those guys appear to be able to pass protect

 

Boobie is like a friggen fullback so having him out there is like having an extra OL almost

[MarkAF43]

I won't attack the premise because fact is FJ is getting up there in age. But to prematurely drop him ( or suggest dropping him) all the way down to the bottom of the depth chart is a panic move based on his age. FJ has never been the fastest guy, but as others have mentioned, his football IQ, his heart, his ability to pick up blitzes show that doesn't make him the last guy on the depth chart just because he's 33. Sure, do it when his performance significantly drops off, but until then, he's still a 1/1A back.

[Billy in 4C]

Overall, I don't totally disagree with the OP, BUT, I'd say let Freddie play himself out of the lineup. Don't assume he is old and can't play, etc. Right now, there is nothing proving he still can't play. You might be right, but let's see it play out on the field.

[You herd it hear last]

We should wait til he shows signs of slowing down more, sign him to a ridiculous extension and then cut him.

[bowery4]

How did Boobie get his nick name?

FJ is our #1 back until he isn't which we will see when we see it. I have seen this kind of thread every year he has been here. I will agree when it happens, which it hasn't yet.

This. Fred still sees the field very well. If there are holes to run through, he's a guy you can count on to make the right cuts and get solid yards. His strength has always been getting three more yards than it appeared possible to get on any play. If you start to see a trend of going down on first contact and not being able to pick up those extra yards, his strength as an NFL running back will be severely diminished. He doesn't have the speed, agility, or power of the other backs on the roster. He has great football sense, takes care of the ball, and manages to escape from tackles in space and lurch forward for bonus yards that other backs don't get. He's still shown he can do it, so until that is not the case, I say give him his touches.

One thing I am excited to see this year is CJ and FJ on the field at the same time. I have been waiting years for that.

Edited August 11, 2014 by bowery4

[PolishDave]

I am in the belief that Fred Jackson should be moved down the depth chart. Possibly all the way down.

 

Your reasoning makes sense if you think about how an older player should regress. Your reasoning does not make sense if you look at the way Fred plays (he hasn't regressed in my assessment). We won't really know until the regular season is well underway.

 

I firmly believe that Fred Jackson makes every guy on that offense a little better when he is in there. I think most of the players really look up to him. (Maybe right. Maybe wrong.) The guy gives his all 100% of the time. If every player did that, this team would win a few more games.

 

I can't recall how many times (it was a lot) that I turned to my wife during a game at the Ralph and commented how glad I am FJ is on this team because the dude is a stellar player both in terms of talent and in terms of character. Give me 10 more guys who play as well as and as hard as Fred Jackson on offense and this offense is unstoppable.

 

Remember there is much, much more to winning than putting a bunch of guys out there who can run the fastest.

[John from Riverside]

I think that Fred is still extremely effective on the field but what I DONT want to see him doing is running towards the sideline on runs.......is it just me or does he appear REALLY slow when he isnt going north/south?

 

That one of the things I am really excited about Bryce Brown.....not only is he a huge back to bust it u between the OT's but somebody hits the "turbo boost" button when he is running east west getting to the sideline and turning the corner

 

I really like Bryce Browns potential...he appears to do everything well

[FireChan]

I think that Fred is still extremely effective on the field but what I DONT want to see him doing is running towards the sideline on runs.......is it just me or does he appear REALLY slow when he isnt going north/south?

 

That one of the things I am really excited about Bryce Brown.....not only is he a huge back to bust it u between the OT's but somebody hits the "turbo boost" button when he is running east west getting to the sideline and turning the corner

 

I really like Bryce Browns potential...he appears to do everything well

 

http://www.buffalobi...3a-5fca70b02b1b

 

It's more noticeable because on outside runs, you need speed to escape the containing DE. Still, Fred has some silky moves, as well as impeccable balance. I'll believe Boobie Dixon or Bryce Brown can be wrapped up by a linebacker and drag him 3 yards for a TD when I see it.

Edited August 11, 2014 by FireChan

[Rocky Landing]

This may not sit well with some/most but I am completely ok with that.

 

I am in the belief that Fred Jackson should be moved down the depth chart. Possibly all the way down.

 

CJ Spiller is undoubtedly this teams first string running back, IMO. Last year was a down year (Allegedly) (1st in NFL in 40+ yd runs) (2nd in NFL in 20+ yd runs)

 

The backup role should go to Bryce Brown. He has the speed that Fred lacks and can also be considered a home run threat. He has been clocked sub 4.4 in the 40 yd dash.

 

Speed cannot be taught in the NFL and with Freds age, that is going to be the first thing to go, and has also never been Freds Strong suit.

 

Third string is where some will question me and (Most likely) call me an idiot. Boobie Dixon should be the short yardage back. His size and strength can be unstoppable at times. Lining Dixon and Summers in the backfield in goal line/short yardage situations is 500Lbs of downhill force. I firmly believe that if Dixon is in the game during those 4 rushing attempts he gets in the end zone. and the Bills first string offense walks away with a touchdown.

 

With all that said Jackson is without question, a leader in the locker room on this team. And with that said I will take talent over leadership on the field.

 

Freds age will catch up with him, and sooner rather than later.

 

My Rb depth chart currently looks as follows:

1- Spiller

2 - Brown

3 - Dixon

4 - Jackson

 

 

 

 

Puts on hard hat and pads and waits for attack.

This really is premature. The truth is that we have four very talented running backs, each with unique skill sets. FJ is far (well, maybe not too far) from done. It almost doesn't matter who the starter is-- all four should be on the field a lot. When FJ's production starts dropping, adjust the amount of time he is on the field. But, right now, four starting caliber RBs (or at least three, and one solid back-up caliber) is a really enviable position that won't last long. Our ground game, properly utilized, should be the best in the league. Moving FJ down the depth chart now would not be proper utilization.

[K-9]

I think that Fred is still extremely effective on the field but what I DONT want to see him doing is running towards the sideline on runs.......is it just me or does he appear REALLY slow when he isnt going north/south?

 

That one of the things I am really excited about Bryce Brown.....not only is he a huge back to bust it u between the OT's but somebody hits the "turbo boost" button when he is running east west getting to the sideline and turning the corner

 

I really like Bryce Browns potential...he appears to do everything well

 

Noticed this last year in camp, too. He seemed to be lacking his usual burst to the hole.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[zow2]

Fred is gonna have a role on this team but i agree it will probably be diminished as the season goes on. That could be due to his performance, the other RB's outperforming him or most likely injuries. If he does get stuffed on some early season 3rd and shorts or from the goaline, he may not see those crunch time carries. We'll see. Hoping for the best but i think this will be his last year as a key cog in the Bills running game.

[John from Riverside]

What would be nice to give carries to all 4 of these backs to keep them all fresh......

[Clippers of Nfl]

My two cent take right now is this:

 

I have grown to like Freddy. When Lynch was here, I didnt like Fred. I'm just being honest. I always valued Lynch way over Freddy. He has done a lot of great things post Lynch.

He has talent but age will become an issue this year.

 

Cj is too explosive to be mentioned with stupid trades. I'm not going to mention how to use him. Darren Sproles or Reggie Bush should ring a bell right here.

Brown is looking to be the man.

Fred is a smart nfl back. However imo he gets slower as the season progresses.

 

I dont know about depth chart usage right now. All 3 can be #1's. Play the hot hand and get the wins is all I care about right now!!!