The Unpopular Opinion. RB - Fred Jackson

[CountryCletus]

 

 

Sigh. You are just like the rest of them. Negative criticism, no counter argument, unfunny joke. God forbid I try to have a conversation on this board and have an opposing view.

 

What is ridiculous about being concerned a 33 year old RB has lost a step and will not be as productive as two young RB's who have shown flashes of being very good/great.

 

 

 

So do we also close the case on Fred having 4 attempts and getting a half a yard up the middle?

 

I have stated my opposing view previously... Was just joking around, I apologize if it came across as being an ass...

 

As previously stated.... Concern is not a valid reason to drop someone like Fred to the bottom of the depth chart... If the depth chart was based off of promise and concern, EJ might be our 3rd QB.... I know that's a ridiculous comparison, but do you get what I am saying? I will contend that if Fred shows that he has lost his game and proves ineffective I have no problem with doing this based off of the lack of productivity and potential behind him on the bench... Proven commodities are valuable.... Well, until they prove they are incapable

[Clippers of Nfl]

I'm really glad someone created this topic.

 

Our love for Freddy can be a bit blinding, but the talent at RB is crazy.

 

FredEx is a gamer though, I'll still take him over Dixon and Brown for now.

 

Side note: Brown and CJ on the field at the same time makes me gitty.

The guy is a very smart nfl rb. Period.

My only LEGIT concern is the age thing. He does get a little slower and sluggish towards the end the season. To my eyes anyway.

 

Regarding Brown and Cj, that should be a 2 headed monster that should be used more often.

Even lining up Cj in the slot. At least to make the defense coordinatos scractch their head. Of course not every play. Just to mix it up.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

I have glanced at the overall thread so perhaps some of this may have lready been stated. I don’t think we run the type of offense that relies on a single RB and hence don’t have a true #1 such as Adrian Peterson. FJ has proven himself to be a very reliable runner with perhaps some goal line issues. CJ has proven himself to be a role player who may not be able to grind out the tough yards but can excel as a big play maker. In my mind FJ and CJ are both #1 for this offense for the reasons above. This is not a knock on either player.

I realize that FJ is an older RB whose performance may fall off a cliff. But it didn’t till the end of last season and hence it is his job to lose. That’s how it is supposed to work. As a (weak) example, would you unseat Spikes for Preston Brown saying Brown is much younger ? There is currently no evidence that bumps FJ down to the #3 or #4 spot on the depth chart.

Whaley is executing a very good strategy. He got Brown to cover for a possible drop off in FJ’s production (IMO, Brown is not competing for CJ’s role). He also got Dixon for a Jerrome Bettis type goal line punch.

 

I would go out on a limb and say that the Bills have the best overall RB situation in the NFL.

Amongst the best. Maybe Philly better. Hard to argue just with AD on your team.

 

But the point you made about Whaley assembling a team is spot on and one I've been trying to espouse for months. He gets guys for talent and for specific reasons and purposes unlike former GMs here who seemed to randomly select alleged talent. That's why he traded Stevie. Because he got four WR that did different things that complemented each other as a team and posed a bigger, more varied threat.

 

That's why he got Spikes and Rivers and Brown and Johnson and Sylvestor. Whaley is really leaning on his Steeler years and building a team.

 

He really could turn out to be a terrific GM.

 

Please insert, "____________________ , although EJ sucks, but I hope I'm wrong" here.

[cantankerous]

No I have a problem with alot of people on this forum that B word and moan and complain EVERY time someone starts a thread. The "in" comments and this couldnt be posted in this thread or that thread. Who gives a rats ass if someone starts a new thread. If people stoped making new threads this site would cease to exist. I have no problem with people who disagree with someone else's opinion or stance on a subject. Hell thats what forums are for. They are not for everyone who makes a user name to B word and moan about a thread being started.

 

AMEN!! People who start a new thread "that's already being discussed elsewhere" are far less annoying than the idiots who post their stupid "IN!" BS and whine about "oh great, another CJ thread".

 

Who knew there were so many snobs around here?

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Who knew there were so many snobs around here?

Everyone.

[Clippers of Nfl]

AMEN!! People who start a new thread "that's already being discussed elsewhere" are far less annoying than the idiots who post their stupid "IN!" BS and whine about "oh great, another CJ thread".

 

Who knew there were so many snobs around here?

I'm just going to ask cuz I dont care if I'm embarrassed.

What are the guys referring to when they say "in"?

 

Everyone.

Correct. Even I knew that.

[CountDorkula]

The guy is a very smart nfl rb. Period.

My only LEGIT concern is the age thing. He does get a little slower and sluggish towards the end the season. To my eyes anyway.

 

Regarding Brown and Cj, that should be a 2 headed monster that should be used more often.

Even lining up Cj in the slot. At least to make the defense coordinatos scractch their head. Of course not every play. Just to mix it up.

 

Apparently that is "Madden GM" thinking, or so I was told. I wonder if the guy who said that to me actually knows what that means because in the context it literally makes zero sense. In fact it is the exact opposite. But I digress.

 

Spiller and Bryce brown in the backfield. With a 3wr set (I Dont give a flying F which 3 WR it is) should open up space for Brown and Cj to get the ball and make plays.

[K-9]

Apparently that is "Madden GM" thinking, or so I was told. I wonder if the guy who said that to me actually knows what that means because in the context it literally makes zero sense. In fact it is the exact opposite. But I digress.

 

Spiller and Bryce brown in the backfield. With a 3wr set (I Dont give a flying F which 3 WR it is) should open up space for Brown and Cj to get the ball and make plays.

 

I am a huge proponent of the spread offense, too, but it puts a TON of pressure on the oline, especially at the vulnerable edges. I'm not sure ours is up to that task.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[cantankerous]

I'm just going to ask cuz I dont care if I'm embarrassed.

What are the guys referring to when they say "in"?

 

 

They assume the thread will be "locked" and shut down so they post "IN" to up their post count or to try to belittle the original poster before TBD internet police come in.

[Clippers of Nfl]

Apparently that is "Madden GM" thinking, or so I was told. I wonder if the guy who said that to me actually knows what that means because in the context it literally makes zero sense. In fact it is the exact opposite. But I digress.

 

Spiller and Bryce brown in the backfield. With a 3wr set (I Dont give a flying F which 3 WR it is) should open up space for Brown and Cj to get the ball and make plays.

It's not Madden thinking. It's being an offensive powerhouse. Cj resembles Darren Sproles. Sproles racked up way more yards receiving vs rush yards in New Orleans. Is that Madden thinking?

 

Get er done!

 

They assume the thread will be "locked" and shut down so they post "IN" to up their post count or to try to belittle the original poster before TBD internet police come in.

Oh that's what that means...

 

Thanks.

[CountryCletus]

 

 

They assume the thread will be "locked" and shut down so they post "IN" to up their post count or to try to belittle the original poster before TBD internet police come in.

 

When something is being discussed over and over in multiple threads and someone comes in with this new thought, that's already being/has been discussed and they create a new thread bc they were too lazy to use the search function, it gets old,... Thus, the "in" comment,,: just as much as "in" is old and annoying to some, the repetitive threads are just as annoying...

[BarleyNY]

I'd leave FJ exactly where he is until I see him start to lose it, then I wouldn't hesitate to drop him down the depth chart. This will almost certainly be his last season on the Bills - and possibly in the NFL. I'd milk the last bit of football out of him whilst the youts learn.

[cantankerous]

When something is being discussed over and over in multiple threads and someone comes in with this new thought, that's already being/has been discussed and they create a new thread bc they were too lazy to use the search function, it gets old,... Thus, the "in" comment,,: just as much as "in" is old and annoying to some, the repetitive threads are just as annoying...

 

So what's the point of posting "IN" and keeping the thread at the top of the page? It seems really childish to me.

[CountryCletus]

 

 

So what's the point of posting "IN" and keeping the thread at the top of the page? It seems really childish to me.

 

What's the point in creating an entirely new thread with the same subject matter that is currently being discussed?? Seems lazy to me...

 

You could contend that both sides are "wrong"

[Matt in KC]

So instead of posting "in," maybe try something like "It looks like this is already being discussed here: https://LinkyHere..."? I suspect the thread-starters might well close their own thread and join in the convo in the right place without feeling insulted and alienated.

[CountryCletus]

That gets done frequently as well!!

[FireChan]

Apparently that is "Madden GM" thinking, or so I was told. I wonder if the guy who said that to me actually knows what that means because in the context it literally makes zero sense. In fact it is the exact opposite. But I digress.

 

Spiller and Bryce brown in the backfield. With a 3wr set (I Dont give a flying F which 3 WR it is) should open up space for Brown and Cj to get the ball and make plays.

 

I said Madden GM thinking because all you care about is speed. Just like in Madden, you find it paramount to every other quality in a player. Hence, Madden GM.

[John from Riverside]

This is my main concern, just or not. But no one ever sees this coming. It just happens and the drop off is severe. Fred is older then everyone of these backs listed below:

 

http://www.pro-footb.../W/WattRi00.htm

 

http://www.pro-footb.../D/DaviTe00.htm

 

http://www.pro-footb.../T/ThomTh00.htm

 

http://www.pro-footb.../T/TomlLa00.htm

 

http://www.pro-footb.../F/FaulMa00.htm

 

http://www.pro-footb.../J/JameEd00.htm

 

http://www.pro-footb.../H/HolmPr00.htm

 

http://www.pro-footb.../J/JohnLa00.htm

 

 

Again just or not it is a serious concern and I am sticking by it. If Fred proves me wrong, great. It is just another added dimension to an offense that is loaded with weapons.

 

Count

 

Take heart.....because if what you say does happen and if Freddie does in fact hit the "wall" then the bills have more then addressed the position......christ even Boobie Dixon looks like he could rumble as a main carry back for a while.......but the fact of the matter is we do in fact have

 

Spiller - who should not be used as a workhorse but still is a game changer

 

Brown - who COULD be a workhorse back given his size AND speed

 

Boobie - a power back who appears to have deceptive speed

 

Were set....this is not a problem

[1B4IDie]

They have been trying to do this to Freddy for years, and they can't.

 

The cream always rises to the top.

 

I actually think he will end up leading the team in yards this year.

I agree. Fred Jackson is one of the Top 5 best RBs in the league. He just gets no respect. He will always fall forward for 2 more yards. That adds up over 150 carries.

 

However in Bryce Brown's 1 Bills Preseason game, He played like you wish CJ would play; Decisive, One cut and run, no dancing, and BB finished his runs. Spiller has the potential to be great BUT he dances in the hole, is not decisive and does not finish his runs. There is enough film in his career to see that. How many times on 2nd down has he run out of bounds to create a 3rd and short instead of finishing the run and getting the first down? More than I can remember.

 

I think FJax #1, BB #2, and CJ #3 in carries by the end of the season is more realistic than FJax holding the clipboard as the OP prefers.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[machine gun kelly]

 

 

Care to elaborate?

 

I stopped at this response after reading the thread. You mentioned the 20 and 40 yard runs, and the other point you reiterated was the 4 stops in the first series. FWIW, I agree I would have liked to see Dixon in to see what he could do against a great front 7 in Carolina (hence why they went 12-4 last year) on 4 th down. The part I disagree is your 4 down stop other than his age is cause for him dropping to the 4 th RB.

 

there was a nice article on Fred last year about his balance and over the last 8 years, he is exceptional in the category of Emmitt, of how he gets the tough yards. Fred is so good at finding those extra two yards Spiller never does with grabbing the first down. Is CJ a fun toy that shines in Gailey's spread offense just killing defenses outside the tackle, and making people miss on screens, of course.

 

The other two guys I oveas pick ups, but they are for depth watching our two bell cows get hurt somewhere in the year for the last couple of years. They haven't proven anything on this team in the regular season as our two main guys have done and in Fred's case for many years.

 

I'll wait as I think the previous post is inferring until Fred actually shows he's too old for the game for several games this year. I din't care about his age if he is still producing. It was one pre-season game. Why do people feel they need some revelation after one game in a couple of series. The week before, everyone was going nuts on EJ. now he goes for 9-13 fpdriving down the field and people feel better. Too much micro-evaluation of every game in the pre-season or regular season.

 

I'll make some choices on my assessment after week 4. I could care less about saying, "I told you so". Everyone calm down and watch how the pre-season plays out. Last year, Marrone figured out real fast who will get you the first down. FREDEX.

 

Maybe Brown and Dixon are our future. They haven't proven it yet. My one point of agreement though is having fun on a big package with Summers and Dixon on goal line situations.

 

The blame on that series if watching closely was on the O-Line. They provided nothing for an opening.

 

[CountDorkula]

I agree. Fred Jackson is one of the Top 5 best RBs in the league. He just gets no respect. He will always fall forward for 2 more yards. That adds up over 150 carries.

 

However in Bryce Brown's 1 Bills Preseason game, He played like you wish CJ would play; Decisive, One cut and run, no dancing, and BB finished his runs. Spiller has the potential to be great BUT he dances in the hole, is not decisive and does not finish his runs. There is enough film in his career to see that. How many times on 2nd down has he run out of bounds to create a 3rd and short instead of finishing the run and getting the first down? More than I can remember.

 

I think FJax #1, BB #2, and CJ #3 in carries by the end of the season is more realistic than FJax holding the clipboard as the OP prefers.

 

There is no way this is true. No offense, but that is a bit homerish to put Jackson in the top 5.

Off the top of my head.

Peterson, McCoy, Charles, Foster, Lynch, Forte, Murray, Spiller, Morris are all better than FJ.

[FireChan]

There is no way this is true. No offense, but that is a bit homerish to put Jackson in the top 5.

Off the top of my head.

Peterson, McCoy, Charles, Foster, Lynch, Forte, Murray, Spiller, Morris are all better than FJ.

 

FJ isn't in the conversation with those guys and neither is Spiller.

[1B4IDie]

There is no way this is true. No offense, but that is a bit homerish to put Jackson in the top 5.

Off the top of my head.

Peterson, McCoy, Charles, Foster, Lynch, Forte, Murray, Spiller, Morris are all better than FJ.

In Fantasy Football.

Not real football.

[CountDorkula]

In Fantasy Football.

Not real football.

 

No, just no. Fred is not top 5 or even top 10. in terms of talent.

 

1 - Peterson

2 - McCoy

3 - Charles

4 - Forte

5 - Foster

6 - Lynch

7 - MJD

8 - Lacy

9 - Spiller

10 - Murray

11 - Morris

 

 

Not an exact order, but I can keep going. Fred is a hell of a back for this team. But I think you are mistaken if you think teams would take Jackson over those guys.

Edited August 12, 2014 by CountDorkula

[Tyrod's Tailor]

No, just no. Fred is not top 5 or even top 10. in terms of talent.

 

1 - Peterson

2 - McCoy

3 - Charles

4 - Forte

5 - Foster

6 - Lynch

7 - MJD

8 - Lacy

9 - Spiller

10 - Murray

11 - Morris

 

 

Not an exact order, but I can keep going. Fred is a hell of a back for this team. But I think you are mistaken if you think teams would take Jackson over those guys.

 

Disagree about Foster and MJD but your point is well taken. I'd add LeVeon Bell and Zac Stacy somewhere on the list.

Edited August 12, 2014 by billsfaninmanhattan

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

No, just no. Fred is not top 5 or even top 10. in terms of talent.

 

1 - Peterson

2 - McCoy

3 - Charles

4 - Forte

5 - Foster

6 - Lynch

7 - MJD

8 - Lacy

9 - Spiller

10 - Murray

11 - Morris

 

 

Not an exact order, but I can keep going. Fred is a hell of a back for this team. But I think you are mistaken if you think teams would take Jackson over those guys.

Fred was #10 running back in 2013..... just saying.

 

 

 

http://fantasy.nfl.com/research/scoringleaders#researchScoringLeaders=researchScoringLeaders%2C%2Fresearch%2Fscoringleaders%253Fposition%253D2%2526statCategory%253Dstats%2526statSeason%253D2013%2526statType%253DseasonStats%2526statWeek%253D1%2Creplace

[CountDorkula]

Disagree about Foster and MJD but your point is well taken.

 

MJD has done more. He has over 10,000 all purpose yards and 80 touchdowns.

Foster absolutely. HE has 6,800 yards and 52 touchdowns in 2 less years

 

Compared to FJ:

7,800 all purpose yards and 34 touchdowns.

 

People remember Foster of last year. The oft injured IR Foster.

[Tyrod's Tailor]

MJD has done more. He has over 10,000 all purpose yards and 80 touchdowns.

Foster absolutely. HE has 6,800 yards and 52 touchdowns in 2 less years

 

Compared to FJ:

7,800 all purpose yards and 34 touchdowns.

 

People remember Foster of last year. The oft injured IR Foster.

 

Right. That's because his career is on the decline. Chronic back issues? No thanks.

[CountDorkula]

Fred was #10 running back in 2013..... just saying.

 

 

 

http://fantasy.nfl.c...eek%3D1,replace

 

 

Fantasy Football stats, really?

 

In real football he was 16th in Rushing yards, 19th in yards per carry, Longest run was 19th best, had 1 run of 20+ yards (Not even top 50), 6th in tds, 22nd in yards per game.

 

Right. That's because his career is on the decline. Chronic back issues? No thanks.

 

Possibly so. He is only 27. If he is injury prone this year, then yes agreed. Fred is also on the decline, and has a year or 2 at best left of good football.

Edited August 12, 2014 by CountDorkula

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Fantasy Football stats, really?

 

 

 

 

You were replying to Why so Serious and he clearly stated " in fantasy football. not real football". In which you replied" no not top 5 even top 10 in terms of talent". You can take talent I'll take results.

[1B4IDie]

MJD has done more. He has over 10,000 all purpose yards and 80 touchdowns.

Foster absolutely. HE has 6,800 yards and 52 touchdowns in 2 less years

 

Compared to FJ:

7,800 all purpose yards and 34 touchdowns.

 

People remember Foster of last year. The oft injured IR Foster.

I'm not sure what comparing Arian Foster's great stats at RB to Fred Jackson has to with anything but awesome.

 

Fred Jackson is a GREAT RB in all phases of the game running, blocking receiving, ball security and finishing. He has never had the opportunity to get fed the ball or be the primary RB like Foster had and his stats are still honorable.

 

Peterson, McCoy, Charles, then FJax.

 

If you put FJax in that Houston 2 TE, zone blocking scheme under Kubiak do you really think there would be a significant drop in production?

 

Arian Foster is a talented RB but he is a product of being in the right place at the right time more than pure talent.

 

Where as Peterson could have got 1000 yard behind the Buffalo Bills 2008, worst O-Line in NFL history, O-line.

 

If Ben Tate doesn't get injured his rookie year you may have never heard of Arian Foster.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[CountDorkula]

You were replying to Why so Serious and he clearly stated " in fantasy football. not real football". In which you replied" no not top 5 even top 10 in terms of talent". You can take talent I'll take results.

 

You may want to re-read my quote for results...

 

I'm not sure what comparing Arian Foster's great stats at RB to Fred Jackson has to with anything but awesome.

 

Fred Jackson is a GREAT RB in all phases of the game running, blocking receiving, ball security and finishing.

 

Peterson, McCoy, Charles, then FJax.

 

If you put FJax in that Houston 2 TE, zone blocking scheme under Kubiak do you really think there would be a significant drop in production?

 

Arian Foster is a talented RB but he is a product of being in the right place at the right time than pure talent.

If Ben Tate doesn't get injured his rookie year you may have never heard of Arian Foster.

 

I literally have no words for this. Literally none.

 

P.S. Foster has more TD's then JAckson - better Finisher.

P.S.S Foster has less fumbles. - Better Ball security.

 

But again who needs facts...

Edited August 12, 2014 by CountDorkula

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

You may want to re-read my quote for results...

 

 

 

 

What results quote? Nevermind. Edited August 12, 2014 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[1B4IDie]

You may want to re-read my quote for results...

 

 

 

I literally have no words for this. Literally none.

 

P.S. Foster has more TD's then JAckson - better Finisher.

P.S.S Foster has less fumbles. - Better Ball security.

 

But again who needs facts...

Wait I thought you had no words.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[CountryCletus]

I love strawberries....

[I Am The Liquor]

As Much As I Like What I've Seen From The The Limited Touches Both Brown And Boobie Have Recieved (Need To See A Little More Then Two Preseason Games Before Saying They're A Better Option Then FJ), I Don't Really See Any Scenario Where The Bills O Gets Better By Taking Away Carries From Freddy.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

You may want to re-read my quote for results...

 

 

But again who needs facts...

These guys seem to have gone through a ton of research and Freds rated even higher, but I'm sure you have a better handle on this then they do.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

[DanInUticaTampa]

I never said it was. I was talking carries touches per game. CJ and Brown should get the majority while Dixon gets most of the short yardage work. The Best players should be on the field, and I feel given each players abilities Fred lacks in some areas. This is NOT a knock on Freddy, I just think the Bills have great depth at RB and are set up for the future nicely.

 

I don't see anything that would warrant freddy to take less carries than Dixon of all people. The season should start with freddy and CJ taking the most reps. and if freddy never gets into a groove and brown is looking good, then move brown up a bit. But based on 2 preseason games, I see no reason to move freddy to 4 on the depth chart. The guy got us quite a few TDs last year. You don't limit a guy like that. you want a guy that scores TDs to be on the field.

[dave mcbride]

These guys seem to have gone through a ton of research and Freds rated even higher, but I'm sure you have a better handle on this then they do.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

This should be the thread ender, but it won't be.

[John from Riverside]

I am trying to figure out why anyone would want to take the heart of the team OFF the field.......right after giving him an extension.....

 

seriously

 

lets tinker with what IS working and screw that up