The Unpopular Opinion. RB - Fred Jackson

[Kelly the Dog]

Madden GM confirmed.

 

 

 

All-22 shows CJ missing holes constantly. Instead of going through, he tries to bounce it outside and go for big yards. Basically, he refuses to take 3-4 tough yards and tries for 15 which usually results in 0. Sometimes it results in 40. Hence his lack of first downs.

No, his lack of first downs is because he is not in the line up when it's 3rd and 1 or 2 or 4th and 1. That's where a huge number if not most of the first downs for running backs come from. Repeating that stat, in my opinion, is stupid.

 

It lacks context. And opinions without context are stupid.

[Lurker]

It lacks context. And opinions without context are stupid.

Ergo, 90% of TSW posts...

[FireChan]

Woohooo another thread where people complain and attack someone for starting a new thread... Man o man the internet police don't even have to recruit around here.

 

Attack or disagree? Do you have a problem with someone disagreeing with someone else? Or thinking that their opinion is laughable?

 

No, his lack of first downs is because he is not in the line up when it's 3rd and 1 or 2 or 4th and 1. That's where a huge number if not most of the first downs for running backs come from. Repeating that stat, in my opinion, is stupid.

 

It lacks context. And opinions without context are stupid.

 

Why is he not in the lineup for 3rd & 2? Is it because he can't get those 3 yards? That sounds a lot like what I just said doesn't it?

 

I said, "All-22 shows CJ missing holes constantly. Instead of going through, he tries to bounce it outside and go for big yards. Basically, he refuses to take 3-4 tough yards and tries for 15 which usually results in 0. Sometimes it results in 40. Hence his lack of first downs."

 

You can say he's not that "type of back" but not being that "type of back" diminishes the hell out of his value.

 

The fact that you so eloquently proved my point, and then called my point stupid is hilarious.

 

I might as well have said, "Fitz's YPA is so low because he lacks the arm strength to throw the ball effectively down the field," to which you replied, "That's stupid, his YPA is low because he only throws short and mid-field routes on plays."

 

How you don't see the two connected is hilarious.

Edited August 12, 2014 by FireChan

[Kelly the Dog]

By the way, Fred's TDs last year were from 4, 16, 1, 3, 1,1, 4, 21 (pass), 9 yards. More than half were right at the goal line.

[boyst]

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/162858-fred-jackson-is-a-stud-top-5-back/

 

Nope, I'll post this again before the season or just bump.

[Kelly the Dog]

Attack or disagree? Do you have a problem with someone disagreeing with someone else? Or thinking that their opinion is laughable?

 

 

 

Why is he not in the lineup for 3rd & 2? Is it because he can't get those 3 yards? That sounds a lot like what I just said doesn't it?

 

You can say he's not that "type of back" but not being that "type of back" diminishes the hell out of his value.

No, it's because Fred Jackson is better at getting 2 yards. That doesn't make him a better back. That makes him a bigger, stronger, fall forward back. Fred Jackson, for being such a terrific RB, is actually a rather average short yardage back, and I LOVE the guy to no end. In fact, he may have already lost his job doing it.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[billsfan1959]

 

You lost me right here.

A first string RB that cannot run between the tackles at all?

If I am not mistaken, CJ led the league (or was near the top of the league) in average per carry between the tackles in 2012. 2013 is a hard year to judge because of the injuries he played with and the definite regression of the offense of line – particularly between the tackles. I believe it is a gross mischaracterization to say that CJ has no ability to run between the tackles.

[FireChan]

 

No, it's because Fred Jackson is better at getting 2 yards. That doesn't make him a better back. That makes him a bigger, stronger, fall forward back. Fred Jackson, for being such a terrific RB, is actually a rather average short yardage back, and I LOVE the guy to no end. In fact, he may have already lost his job doing it.

 

So Freddy, the average short yardage back, is better than CJ at getting that short yardage, which directly relates to first downs, how does that not make CJ below average at getting first downs?

[Kelly the Dog]

So Freddy, the average short yardage back, is better than CJ at getting that short yardage, which directly relates to first downs, how does that not make CJ below average at getting first downs?

Because you have a completely distorted definition of what getting first downs means. Everyone knows that Freddy is better at getting 2 yards than CJ is. It's a stupid argument. But you use that first down percentage stat as if it means something other than it does, which is who is getting the carries on short yardage, not who is the better overall running back at this point in their careers and should be getting the most carries overall.

 

If you haven't been paying attention, CJ is the starter on this team, listed as the starter, and has been running with the ones for quite some time. Freddy is still going to get his playing time and carries, but CJ Spiller is the feature back on the 2014 Buffalo Bills, as decided by the coaches.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[FireChan]

 

Because you have a completely distorted definition of what getting first downs means. Everyone knows that Freddy is better at getting 2 yards than CJ is. It's a stupid argument. But you use that first down percentage stat as if it means something other than it does, which is who is getting the carries on short yardage, not who is the better overall running back at this point in their careers and should be getting the most carries overall.

 

If you haven't been paying attention, CJ is the starter on this team, listed as the starter, and has been running with the ones for quite some time. Freddy is still going to get his playing time and carries, but CJ Spiller is the feature back on the 2014 Buffalo Bills, as decided by the coaches.

 

The same Spiller that Marrone was unhappy with and refused to use much late in the year?

 

Fred Jackson is the "gut it out" first down back, as decided by the coaches. Clearly, he is a better option to do so. You said he is average. If Fred is "average" at short distances, which you said, and better than Spiller at that, which you said, does that not make Spiller below average at getting short yardage? I believe that's an easy conclusion.

[Kelly the Dog]

The same Spiller that Marrone was unhappy with and refused to use much late in the year?

 

Fred Jackson is the "gut it out" first down back, as decided by the coaches. Clearly, he is a better option to do so. You said he is average. If Fred is "average" at short distances, which you said, and better than Spiller at that, which you said, does that not make Spiller below average at getting short yardage? I believe that's an easy conclusion.

Yes, I would say that CJ Spiller is less than average at being a power back and plowing up the middle on 3rd and 1.

 

Boobie Dixon was getting first team carries in the goal line situations in the last practices and may very well take over that position from Fred.

 

Believe me, I love Fred. Have for years. He's still going to be very effective this year. Spiller is the starter and feature back though. He's listed on the depth chart. He starts the games. The coaches and reporters covering the team have said it. He's a great talent when he is healthy, as evidenced by his 2012 year. He was hurt all of last season.

 

Go Freddy though, he's one of my all-time favorite Bills, he's still going to surprise people that say he's washed up this season, and we need him.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

I don't know, but it seems Fred is really good with rushing first down percentage.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/player-rushing-first-down-percentage/2013/

Edited August 12, 2014 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't know, but it seems Fred is really good with rushing first down percentage.

http://www.sportingc...ercentage/2013/

That stat is deceiving. I think, and most people do I imagine, that Fred Jackson is a better short yardage back at getting first downs than Spiller is. Those stats last year show Fred has a good year at first down percentage. But in both 2012 and 2011, Spiller had a better first down percentage than Fred. Unless you see the carries and what they mean, it's hard to know with that stat.

[Pills -N- Bills]

Attack or disagree? Do you have a problem with someone disagreeing with someone else? Or thinking that their opinion is laughable?

 

No I have a problem with alot of people on this forum that B word and moan and complain EVERY time someone starts a thread. The "in" comments and this couldnt be posted in this thread or that thread. Who gives a rats ass if someone starts a new thread. If people stoped making new threads this site would cease to exist. I have no problem with people who disagree with someone else's opinion or stance on a subject. Hell thats what forums are for. They are not for everyone who makes a user name to B word and moan about a thread being started.

[Mango]

No, his lack of first downs is because he is not in the line up when it's 3rd and 1 or 2 or 4th and 1. That's where a huge number if not most of the first downs for running backs come from. Repeating that stat, in my opinion, is stupid.

 

It lacks context. And opinions without context are stupid.

 

He is also not in during 3rd and long where it is an obvious passing down since he is a liability. He is also not in on 3rd and mid distance where we might audible in or out of a pass because he is a liability.

 

I am not a CJ hater. I think he is a solid talent, but for whatever reason this staff can't use him. He also has one or two major deficiencies that make him a liability in other phases of the game can't/won't hit the hole between the tackles, and pass protection. I want him resigned, but I am also in the camp that he doesn't deserve top 5 money. somewhere around 10. He will want a payday, and some team will most likely give it to him.

 

I am curious, how many QB hits/hurries/sacks is CJ responsible in percentage to passing plays. Also success rate of imperative downs (ie 3rd downs) or passing plays when CJ is on the field. Again not trying to hate, but I think it is interesting data, that may answer a lot of questions or misconceptions, both good and bad, about Spliier

[John from Riverside]

The same Spiller that Marrone was unhappy with and refused to use much late in the year?

 

Fred Jackson is the "gut it out" first down back, as decided by the coaches. Clearly, he is a better option to do so. You said he is average. If Fred is "average" at short distances, which you said, and better than Spiller at that, which you said, does that not make Spiller below average at getting short yardage? I believe that's an easy conclusion.

 

Would just like to point out that the high ankle sprain had really taken its toll on CJ by late in the year......

 

SOOOO excited about having quality depth at this position

[FireChan]

 

Yes, I would say that CJ Spiller is less than average at being a power back and plowing up the middle on 3rd and 1.

 

Boobie Dixon was getting first team carries in the goal line situations in the last practices and may very well take over that position from Fred.

 

Believe me, I love Fred. Have for years. He's still going to be very effective this year. Spiller is the starter and feature back though. He's listed on the depth chart. He starts the games. The coaches and reporters covering the team have said it. He's a great talent when he is healthy, as evidenced by his 2012 year. He was hurt all of last season.

 

Go Freddy though, he's one of my all-time favorite Bills, he's still going to surprise people that say he's washed up this season, and we need him.

 

A great talent when healthy, also evident in his stellar 2010 and 2011 campaigns.

[Mango]

I was also looking for a stat for number of runs from an RB for a loss or no gain. Something that comes up about CJ a lot. His ability to kill a drive with a 1st and 2nd down run for -3, then 0 yards, that get averaged for the season with his big 20+ yard runs. Anyways couldn't find that stat, but something similar. Football outsiders ranked OL play and factored in runs with no or negative gain, which we haven't seen before. Bills are 16th at run blocking when that is considered. I know this takes into consideration the entire stable of RB's, but by the eye test, CJ seems to contribute far more to those than Freddy.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

A great talent when healthy, also evident in his stellar 2010 and 2011 campaigns.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

A great talent when healthy, also evident in his stellar 2010 and 2011 campaigns.

And yet Spiller had a better first down percentage than Fred did in 2011!

 

Does that make him better at it than Fred? No.

 

And he was a lot better first down percentage than Fred in 2012. Fourth or fifth in the league for starting RBs.

 

Does that make him better at getting first downs than Fred?

 

No. Not even doing it two years in a row. Why? Because it's a stupid stat without context.

 

A word to the wise, stop saying how first down percentage is so important when arguing that Fred is better than CJ, because since Spiller has been better two of the last three years, and he didn't play much as a rookie.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[Mango]

He is also not in during 3rd and long where it is an obvious passing down since he is a liability. He is also not in on 3rd and mid distance where we might audible in or out of a pass because he is a liability.

 

I am not a CJ hater. I think he is a solid talent, but for whatever reason this staff can't use him. He also has one or two major deficiencies that make him a liability in other phases of the game can't/won't hit the hole between the tackles, and pass protection. I want him resigned, but I am also in the camp that he doesn't deserve top 5 money. somewhere around 10. He will want a payday, and some team will most likely give it to him.

 

I am curious, how many QB hits/hurries/sacks is CJ responsible in percentage to passing plays. Also success rate of imperative downs (ie 3rd downs) or passing plays when CJ is on the field. Again not trying to hate, but I think it is interesting data, that may answer a lot of questions or misconceptions, both good and bad, about Spliier

I was also looking for a stat for number of runs from an RB for a loss or no gain. Something that comes up about CJ a lot. His ability to kill a drive with a 1st and 2nd down run for -3, then 0 yards, that get averaged for the season with his big 20+ yard runs. Anyways couldn't find that stat, but something similar. Football outsiders ranked OL play and factored in runs with no or negative gain, which we haven't seen before. Bills are 16th at run blocking when that is considered. I know this takes into consideration the entire stable of RB's, but by the eye test, CJ seems to contribute far more to those than Freddy.

 

http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

 

 

 

 

I think I found what I was looking for. I am not math whiz. Urban Planning and Sociology degrees. I don't fully understand the stats so if anybody is good at it please explain it like I am 5, seriously. This has CJ, from what I gather to be the 44th most efficient RB in the league. From what I gather CJ has very little success adjusting to the defense, gaining the yards needed, and finding the proper holes. I am making some assumptions in terminology based on the definition of the measurements, but I think I am pretty close. On a play by play basis CJ is operating at about 15% less production than the mean RB in the league. Something that has been hinted at on this board. His per play success rate is listed at 36% with the better (at least more notable) backs in the league operating somewhere between the high 40's to mid/low 50% range.

 

Granted take this with a grain of salt, AP is pretty far down on the list. Although AP is at about 80% effective with his rushing yards, in that a majority of the time he is rushing for gains. Spiller is right around 50%

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

 

In Spiller's defence, his 2012 stats are through the roof better. Which makes me hate Hackett so much. Who is it that keeps preaching that we need to "give him the keys" because he is one of the "bright young minds in the NFL"

[Kelly the Dog]

I think I found what I was looking for. I am not math whiz. Urban Planning and Sociology degrees. I don't fully understand the stats so if anybody is good at it please explain it like I am 5, seriously. This has CJ, from what I gather to be the 44th most efficient RB in the league. From what I gather CJ has very little success adjusting to the defense, gaining the yards needed, and finding the proper holes. I am making some assumptions in terminology based on the definition of the measurements, but I think I am pretty close. On a play by play basis CJ is operating at about 15% less production than the mean RB in the league. Something that has been hinted at on this board. His per play success rate is listed at 36% with the better (at least more notable) backs in the league operating somewhere between the high 40's to mid/low 50% range.

 

Granted take this with a grain of salt, AP is pretty far down on the list. Although AP is at about 80% effective with his rushing yards, in that a majority of the time he is rushing for gains. Spiller is right around 50%

 

http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/rb

 

In Spiller's defence, his 2012 stats are through the roof better. Which makes me hate Hackett so much. Who is it that keeps preaching that we need to "give him the keys" because he is one of the "bright young minds in the NFL"

Spiller hurt his knee in game three (after getting 100 yards in g2), then hurt his ankle in game four, which affected him the entire year. That is the only reason he was often bad. He couldn't explode off his ankle. It bothered him the entire year and he has spoken clearly about it. We also had injuries everywhere. And he still managed to average 4.6 yards a carry, on one leg. You could see that his burst was just not there. He was limping all the time. He couldn't sprint and then run another play.

[FireChan]

 

And yet Spiller had a better first down percentage than Fred did in 2011!

 

Does that make him better at it than Fred? No.

 

And he was a lot better first down percentage than Fred in 2012. Fourth or fifth in the league for starting RBs.

 

Does that make him better at getting first downs than Fred?

 

No. Not even doing it two years in a row. Why? Because it's a stupid stat without context.

 

A word to the wise, stop saying how first down percentage is so important when arguing that Fred is better than CJ, because since Spiller has been better two of the last three years, and he didn't play much as a rookie.

 

Fine. I won't argue about the first down stat, even though I think it's a better stat to be good at than 20+ runs.

 

How about TD's? Are those also stats without context because some of them are short yardage? Fred dominates TD's which directly correlates to wins.

[Kelly the Dog]

Fine. I won't argue about the first down stat, even though I think it's a better stat to be good at than 20+ runs.

 

How about TD's? Are those also stats without context because some of them are short yardage? Fred dominates TD's which directly correlates to wins.

No, he dominated last year because Spiller was hurt the whole year. And even though Fred gets the goal line carries, Spiller had twice as many TDs in 2012 and they had the same number in 2011.

[FireChan]

 

No, he dominated last year because Spiller was hurt the whole year. And even though Fred gets the goal line carries, Spiller had twice as many TDs in 2012 and they had the same number in 2011.

 

Ahh but Fred was hurt all three years.

 

And Fred had more than quadruple Spiller's TD's last year.

Edited August 12, 2014 by FireChan

[CountryCletus]

was ur opinion not ridiculed enough in the FJ disgruntled comments thread that you had to start a new thread where it could really shine?

 

CJ cannot run up the middle (or has not been able to do so in the gross majority of seasons he has been in the NFL). Until he can, he will never be a primary back. Brown has to prove himself in real NFL games the way fred has season after season before he can supplant him. dixon is a short yardage back who can also catch...not all purpose.

 

FJ's role as a #1 or at least co-#1 back is secure for the time being.

 

You do remember cj getting 2 yards in the first preseason game when he tried to go up the middle?

 

 

 

Him leading the league in 20+ 40+ yard carries has ABSOLUTELY nothing with his ability to (or lack thereof) to run between the tackles. He can certainly hit the home run. No one can argue that. But he sucks at getting reliable yardage between the tackles (enough to move the chains). The type of every down ability that at least one of your primary back needs to have.

 

I am going to stop reading this thread right here, as it is asinine.... Not saying those guys can't fulfill the roles that the OP outlined, but it's just crazy talk.... The above quoted is perfect....

[Kelly the Dog]

Ahh but Fred was hurt all three years.

 

And Fred had more than quadruple Spiller's TD's last year.

You're not very good at this, are you?

 

The last three years, Spiller has 631 touches, and Fred has 611. And with 90% of the goal line carries (including scores of 1,1,1,3 and 4 last year), Fred has 2 more total TDs in those three years.

 

That is true dominance. A better argument could be made that Spiller is at least as good if not better TD producer.

[Peter]

I see that this is where the CJ haters have decided to come out and play. I hate these threads.

 

Why can't we appreciate both backs?!?

 

CJ and Fred are both very good backs and teammates. They appreciate each other more than, it seems, "we" on this board. I am glad they are both on this team. They both have roles on this team - and fit those roles happily. Neither is a prima Donna and love playing for the Bills.

 

As an aside, some of the criticism of CJ by the keyboard jockeys on this board is asinine. I am not going to repeat other posts, but try walking to the bathroom on a high ankle sprain much less play in the NFL with a high ankle sprain or average 4.6 yards per carry (behind a line that could included Colin freaken Brown/Doug Legursky and a below average right guard and tackle).

 

Just my two cents.

[dave mcbride]

 

And yet Spiller had a better first down percentage than Fred did in 2011!

 

Does that make him better at it than Fred? No.

 

And he was a lot better first down percentage than Fred in 2012. Fourth or fifth in the league for starting RBs.

 

Does that make him better at getting first downs than Fred?

 

No. Not even doing it two years in a row. Why? Because it's a stupid stat without context.

 

A word to the wise, stop saying how first down percentage is so important when arguing that Fred is better than CJ, because since Spiller has been better two of the last three years, and he didn't play much as a rookie.

Spiller wasn't better than Jackson last year. Jackson averaged more yards per touch and was better in pretty much every category - fumbles lost pct, tds, td pct, receptions, ypc, etc. (and don't get me started on blocking and route running). Always factor in the passing game when considering RBs. It's foolish not to.

 

 

No, he dominated last year because Spiller was hurt the whole year. And even though Fred gets the goal line carries, Spiller had twice as many TDs in 2012 and they had the same number in 2011.

TDs are an overrated stat, btw - you're more likely to gwt them when you're close to the goal line, obviously. I'm not saying it's a worthless stat, but keep it in context. I focus on yards per touch, turnovers, obvious mistakes in blocking/hole selection/route running. i also rely on my eyeballs. Don't get me wrong - I like Spiller.

 

 

 

 

I think I found what I was looking for. I am not math whiz. Urban Planning and Sociology degrees. I don't fully understand the stats so if anybody is good at it please explain it like I am 5, seriously. This has CJ, from what I gather to be the 44th most efficient RB in the league. From what I gather CJ has very little success adjusting to the defense, gaining the yards needed, and finding the proper holes. I am making some assumptions in terminology based on the definition of the measurements, but I think I am pretty close. On a play by play basis CJ is operating at about 15% less production than the mean RB in the league. Something that has been hinted at on this board. His per play success rate is listed at 36% with the better (at least more notable) backs in the league operating somewhere between the high 40's to mid/low 50% range.

 

Granted take this with a grain of salt, AP is pretty far down on the list. Although AP is at about 80% effective with his rushing yards, in that a majority of the time he is rushing for gains. Spiller is right around 50%

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

 

In Spiller's defence, his 2012 stats are through the roof better. Which makes me hate Hackett so much. Who is it that keeps preaching that we need to "give him the keys" because he is one of the "bright young minds in the NFL"

Incidentally, the Bills ran it up the middle more times and at a higher rate than any other team in the league last season.

[The Dog]

put him in tight end or slot?

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Dog, read a lot of your post and respect your opinion, but in no way was I comparing Spiller and Fred. It was in response to the OP about moving Fred to the end of the bench. I would prefer Fred 2a and Brown 2b.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

They have been trying to do this to Freddy for years, and they can't.

 

The cream always rises to the top.

 

I actually think he will end up leading the team in yards this year.

[CountryCletus]

This dude has done nothing but grind since he got here!!! Busted his ass on some crap teams even when the team had nothing to play for. He's a great leader, a great role model, and a great teammate... This is not how you reward a guy like that... If he's still producing, leave him as 1A or 1B

[CountDorkula]

This is my main concern, just or not. But no one ever sees this coming. It just happens and the drop off is severe. Fred is older then everyone of these backs listed below:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WattRi00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviTe00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomTh00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TomlLa00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FaulMa00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JameEd00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HolmPr00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnLa00.htm

 

 

Again just or not it is a serious concern and I am sticking by it. If Fred proves me wrong, great. It is just another added dimension to an offense that is loaded with weapons.

[qblax16]

I'm really glad someone created this topic.

 

Our love for Freddy can be a bit blinding, but the talent at RB is crazy.

 

FredEx is a gamer though, I'll still take him over Dixon and Brown for now.

 

Side note: Brown and CJ on the field at the same time makes me gitty.

[CountryCletus]

This is my main concern, just or not. But no one ever sees this coming. It just happens and the drop off is severe. Fred is older then everyone of these backs listed below:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WattRi00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviTe00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomTh00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TomlLa00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FaulMa00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JameEd00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HolmPr00.htm

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnLa00.htm

 

 

Again just or not it is a serious concern and I am sticking by it. If Fred proves me wrong, great. It is just another added dimension to an offense that is loaded with weapons.

 

Please don't confuse what I am saying... I am all on board with sliding him down the depth chart IF he isn't producing... But how I interpreted this was that he should slide down the depth now... Bc he's old and his production will eventually dip...

 

 

[metzelaars_lives]

was ur opinion not ridiculed enough in the FJ disgruntled comments thread that you had to start a new thread where it could really shine?

 

CJ cannot run up the middle (or has not been able to do so in the gross majority of seasons he has been in the NFL). Until he can, he will never be a primary back. Brown has to prove himself in real NFL games the way fred has season after season before he can supplant him. dixon is a short yardage back who can also catch...not all purpose.

 

FJ's role as a #1 or at least co-#1 back is secure for the time being.

 

You do remember cj getting 2 yards in the first preseason game when he tried to go up the middle?

 

 

 

Him leading the league in 20+ 40+ yard carries has ABSOLUTELY nothing with his ability to (or lack thereof) to run between the tackles. He can certainly hit the home run. No one can argue that. But he sucks at getting reliable yardage between the tackles (enough to move the chains). The type of every down ability that at least one of your primary back needs to have.

Well there ya go, case closed right there. Edited August 12, 2014 by metzelaars_lives

[CountryCletus]

Let's just suit up Marrone at QB while we are at it... This logic is ridiculous

[CountDorkula]

Let's just suit up Marrone at QB while we are at it... This logic is ridiculous

 

Sigh. You are just like the rest of them. Negative criticism, no counter argument, unfunny joke. God forbid I try to have a conversation on this board and have an opposing view.

 

What is ridiculous about being concerned a 33 year old RB has lost a step and will not be as productive as two young RB's who have shown flashes of being very good/great.

 

Well there ya go, case closed right there.

 

So do we also close the case on Fred having 4 attempts and getting a half a yard up the middle?

Edited August 12, 2014 by CountDorkula

[snamsnoops]

This dude has done nothing but grind since he got here!!! Busted his ass on some crap teams even when the team had nothing to play for. He's a great leader, a great role model, and a great teammate... This is not how you reward a guy like that... If he's still producing, leave him as 1A or 1B

YUP! ^ this

[Fan in Chicago]

This is my main concern, just or not. But no one ever sees this coming. It just happens and the drop off is severe. Fred is older then everyone of these backs listed below:

 

Again just or not it is a serious concern and I am sticking by it. If Fred proves me wrong, great. It is just another added dimension to an offense that is loaded with weapons.

 

I have glanced at the overall thread so perhaps some of this may have lready been stated. I don’t think we run the type of offense that relies on a single RB and hence don’t have a true #1 such as Adrian Peterson. FJ has proven himself to be a very reliable runner with perhaps some goal line issues. CJ has proven himself to be a role player who may not be able to grind out the tough yards but can excel as a big play maker. In my mind FJ and CJ are both #1 for this offense for the reasons above. This is not a knock on either player.

I realize that FJ is an older RB whose performance may fall off a cliff. But it didn’t till the end of last season and hence it is his job to lose. That’s how it is supposed to work. As a (weak) example, would you unseat Spikes for Preston Brown saying Brown is much younger ? There is currently no evidence that bumps FJ down to the #3 or #4 spot on the depth chart.

Whaley is executing a very good strategy. He got Brown to cover for a possible drop off in FJ’s production (IMO, Brown is not competing for CJ’s role). He also got Dixon for a Jerrome Bettis type goal line punch.

 

I would go out on a limb and say that the Bills have the best overall RB situation in the NFL.