EJ looked calm and in control..

[dubs]

 

It's the same thing. "The Ryan Neufeld Syndrome" was not necessarily only from Ryan Neufeld. He was simply another in a long line of decent, slow, white, mediocre tight ends. They were clones of each other and they all sucked. To be a TE in the NFL you need at least one outstanding talent or trait. You need to be a great receiver, or huge, or a great ath-a-lete, or a great blocker, which are usually you have it or you don't stuff, and then try to refine the lesser parts of your game while you try to exploit the one thing you do well. Ryan Neufeld and all those tight ends did nothing really well, and so they were useless. Lee Smith is worse than Ryan Nuefeld in most tight end qualities but he does one thing really well, he's a great blocker, so there is a place and a use for him.

 

Jeff Tuel seems like a great guy and hard worker. But he isn't huge, he isn't a great ath-a-lete, he doesn't have a great arm, he isn't a great scrambler, he is fairly accurate but not tremendously accurate. He can't do anything great. He was 4-21 in college (yes I know his team was terrible) and he was undrafted. So in order for him to become even a valuable back-up, he will have to be a tremendous game manager and rarely make mistakes and have a unique feel for the game and that is not at all what he shows. What he shows is a great pass once in a while, and a quick dropback-look-throw once in awhile. And that's it. And if that's it, he stinks.

 

Amen brother. That was a perfect summation of Tuel and should be pinned to the stadium wall. I actually might cut and paste that into my notepad so I can re paste!!! Love it!

 

 

[RyanC883]

You did pick up the highlights...the baby I was referring to was EJ

 

I am anxious to see more of the 1st string D and the OL...with the exception of TJ, the WRs can catch and the RBs can run. I really like our skill positions

 

skill positions looked great. K. Williams seems to get better every season. (not a "skill position", but I love that guy).

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

 

No offense but I couldn't disagree more. Especially in game 1 of 5 game preseason.

 

If EJ got injured playing an extra series, people would be wanting to fire Marrone.

I'd agree if EJ was playing well, but, he wasn't and a few more plays, even one more series is what he needs at this time in his development.

[eball]

His health won't matter if he isn't ready to play. He played only 10 snaps and looked bad, I'd kept him in there for another series or two. It's worth the risk.

 

Says the guy who doesn't have to answer to his GM and Prez if the de facto starting QB misses significant time because the 7th round rookie LT lets a guy through who dives at EJ's knee because he's desperate to avoid going back to the grocery store bagging line.

[UpperDeck]

Well, here's about 9 minutes of highlights from last year showing quite a few of those passes you're looking for.

 

http://youtu.be/VBDqyq_6Oc0

Yeah, but did you see how he stared down his receiver on those?

[thebandit27]

Your right. EJ is fantastic. What was I thinking. Oh, the EJ apologists are this board will go to no lengths to absolve him. Your citing Brian Billick as an expert on offensive strategy?? You do realize also that EJ stared down not only Watkins on that play, but also the play that could have and should have been a pick six. And perhaps your not aware, but even a 3 step drop does not absolve a QB of staring down the receiver. Notice that even Nassib (who is not good) was able to look at multiple WR and go through his progressions. EJ has simply not progressed. He needs more playing time. Not sure what the coaches are thinking, "well, he doesn't have it in preseason, we will play him two series, but he'll be fine in the regular season."

 

Yes, that's exactly what I said...EJ is fantastic. It's a shame that not only do you horribly mischaracterize what happens on the field, but also what others post. I used to be that way too...you'll likely grow out of it, as I'm sure deep down you're actually a nice person.

 

As many others point out, it's okay if the QB's first read is open and he throws it. That's what happened on the deep ball. Let me ask you a question that you're horribly neglecting? Was Watkins open? Yes, yes he was. Why, if you're a QB, and you see your #1 WR breaking down the field with a step on his man, would you waste time looking off a safety that isn't in position? That would be counter-productive and idiotic. EJ didn't do it...instead, he threw the ball at the back of his drop. If Sammy is in position and doesn't run too tight down the sideline (and also doesn't hitch step when turning for the ball--which I'm sure you saw since you watched the game) he makes the catch.

 

The fact that you categorize a QB making a decision and throwing the ball when a WR clears open as "staring down" tells me all I need to know about your evaluation of a QB.

 

You also realize Watkins can prob cover about 10 yards in a stride. and it looked like 1.5 strides too far. But continue citing inapposite facts to defend EJ. He is terrible right now. There is no way around that. It's a verifiable fact. I think if he plays more, then he will be fine. But even if you said, he had SEVEN passes. How is that going to get him ready for the regular season?? It's not. The coaching staff needs to quit "hoping" he gets it, and put him in a position to actually "get it" by playing him more.

 

A few things:

 

1) No, it wasn't 10 yards overthrown, and insisting it was is damaging to your credibility.

 

2) I have no idea what "inapposite" means.

 

3) Please do not characterize your opinions as facts; it is not only inaccurate, but also beyond belligerent.

[34-78-83]

Yes, that's exactly what I said...EJ is fantastic. It's a shame that not only do you horribly mischaracterize what happens on the field, but also what others post. I used to be that way too...you'll likely grow out of it, as I'm sure deep down you're actually a nice person.

 

As many others point out, it's okay if the QB's first read is open and he throws it. That's what happened on the deep ball. Let me ask you a question that you're horribly neglecting? Was Watkins open? Yes, yes he was. Why, if you're a QB, and you see your #1 WR breaking down the field with a step on his man, would you waste time looking off a safety that isn't in position? That would be counter-productive and idiotic. EJ didn't do it...instead, he threw the ball at the back of his drop. If Sammy is in position and doesn't run too tight down the sideline (and also doesn't hitch step when turning for the ball--which I'm sure you saw since you watched the game) he makes the catch.

 

The fact that you categorize a QB making a decision and throwing the ball when a WR clears open as "staring down" tells me all I need to know about your evaluation of a QB.

 

 

 

A few things:

 

1) No, it wasn't 10 yards overthrown, and insisting it was is damaging to your credibility.

 

2) I have no idea what "inapposite" means.

 

3) Please do not characterize your opinions as facts; it is not only inaccurate, but also beyond belligerent.

 

Well done. Well done.

[thebandit27]

Well done. Well done.

 

Not too much then?

[UpperDeck]

You also realize Watkins can prob cover about 10 yards in a stride. and it looked like 1.5 strides too far. But continue citing inapposite facts to defend EJ. He is terrible right now. There is no way around that. It's a verifiable fact. I think if he plays more, then he will be fine. But even if you said, he had SEVEN passes. How is that going to get him ready for the regular season?? It's not. The coaching staff needs to quit "hoping" he gets it, and put him in a position to actually "get it" by playing him more.

Now I KNOW Watkins will be great. He has almost a 30 foot stride. Who could ever keep up with him?

[34-78-83]

Not too much then?

that's probably a matter of personal preference. I'm fine with it though

[Heitz]

Now I KNOW Watkins will be great. He has almost a 30 foot stride. Who could ever keep up with him?

 

He's got big, soft hands and 15' legs - SUPERBOWL!

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

 

Says the guy who doesn't have to answer to his GM and Prez if the de facto starting QB misses significant time because the 7th round rookie LT lets a guy through who dives at EJ's knee because he's desperate to avoid going back to the grocery store bagging line.

As Prez or GM, my #1 concern right now is QB. My roster, even without Kiko looks good. My QB doesn't. My #1 priority in the off-season was to surround my QB with better players, WR's and OL. As HC, my priority is to get my QB playing at a higher level. I know there is risk, but there is risk slipping on a wet mat or training in the off-season. This team's success this season will be determined by EJ's play, he needs more reps.

[CountDorkula]

Now I KNOW Watkins will be great. He has almost a 30 foot stride. Who could ever keep up with him?

I had the same thought

 

Yeah, but did you see how he stared down his receiver on those?

I was staring into his eyes. They looked very slow....

[UpperDeck]

As Prez or GM, my #1 concern right now is QB. My roster, even without Kiko looks good. My QB doesn't. My #1 priority in the off-season was to surround my QB with better players, WR's and OL. As HC, my priority is to get my QB playing at a higher level. I know there is risk, but there is risk slipping on a wet mat or training in the off-season. This team's success this season will be determined by EJ's play, he needs more reps.

And Lord knows there isn't enough playing time left with only 4 preseason game remaining. Our first team OL was not at full strength and there's plenty of playing time left in the preseason. I wouldn't be all that concerned about getting him enough playing time. This game was bonus time compared to a normal preseason schedule. He'll get more time in the next 3 games then the last one will be like the first, a quick series or 2 then out. Edited August 4, 2014 by UpperDeck

[Dan]

Well, here's about 9 minutes of highlights from last year showing quite a few of those passes you're looking for.

 

Certainly a good case for optimism regarding EJ.

 

Conversely, a case for... why did we trade Stevie again?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Yes, he looked calmer and more in control than last season, but you can't teach instincts.

[Chandler#81]

I am confused by a lot of you.

 

Saying things like EJ is a slow starter or it's a meaningless game or if Williams had made a great catch etc,.

 

He almost could not have looked worse. Multiple batted down passes, throwing it into the hands of a defender, not a single nice pass other than a very short one.

 

None of this proves he is not the answer, but it inspires zero confidence.

 

Hopefully, this works out.

 

Hope is the best we currently have.

 

You'll run afoul of the EJ Apologists with that kind of talk.

What kind of 'talk'?

 

Truth.

 

[thebandit27]

You'll run afoul of the EJ Apologists with that kind of talk.

What kind of 'talk'?

 

Truth.

 

I love how anyone that doesn't agree that EJ is terrible is an "apologist".

 

It's also massively disappointing to see how many folks believe that their opinion is "Truth"

 

The fact that a moderator is doing it further sets a brutal example, but that's just my opinion.

[LB3]

 

 

You'll run afoul of the EJ Apologists with that kind of talk.

What kind of 'talk'?

 

Truth.

 

So now conjecture=truth. Got it.

[You herd it hear last]

I love how anyone that doesn't agree that EJ is terrible is an "apologist".

 

It's also massively disappointing to see how many folks believe that their opinion is "Truth"

 

The fact that a moderator is doing it further sets a brutal example, but that's just my opinion.

 

Ironically, in this case, your opinion is the truth.

 

But what do I know? I'm just an EJ apologist.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I love how anyone that doesn't agree that EJ is terrible is an "apologist".

 

It's also massively disappointing to see how many folks believe that their opinion is "Truth"

 

The fact that a moderator is doing it further sets a brutal example, but that's just my opinion.

I'm way, way with you on this.

[K-9]

I'm a bandit apologist.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[eball]

[3rdnlng]

I agree.

 

And, I hope the bolded was real mistake, because it's hilarious. If it was intentional, then it is just really funny. . . .

 

I pictured a conveyor line with jars full of brains. Now that's boggling.

[dubs]

 

 

I pictured a conveyor line with jars full of brains. Now that's boggling.

 

It's a quote from the movie Blades of Glory. Put the link up earlier! But that's the idea...brains in a bottle. Haha

[CodeMonkey]

I know you don't want to read too much into a pre-preseason game ... but the QB ratings in descending order:

 

Nassib: 126.7

Painter: 102.8

Manning: 92.3

Tuel[time]: 74.1

Lewis: 50.8

Manuel: 39.6

 

Not exactly what you want to see in any game, even a pre-preseason one.

Gotta hope for better Friday. At least it can't get a whole lot worse.

[Dorkington]

Manuel is worse than all of the above QBs, the ratings prove it. Case closed. End thread.

 

...or something

[seq004]

What I don't like about Manuel's game is that when he goes back to pass he begins to stare down the reciever right away. I don't ever see him scan the field first. This is an obvious advantage to the corners and safties.

[CodeMonkey]

Manuel is worse than all of the above QBs, the ratings prove it. Case closed. End thread.

 

...or something

More like the Giants QBs had a considerably better game than their Bills counterparts.

[The Big Cat]

What I don't like about Manuel's game is that when he goes back to pass he begins to stare down the reciever right away. I don't ever see him scan the field first. This is an obvious advantage to the corners and safties.

 

You must have missed his pass to Lee Smith.

[You herd it hear last]

Manuel is worse than all of the above QBs, the ratings prove it. Case closed. End thread.

 

...or something

 

I wonder what they'd be saying if they ordered that list by QB height. Because that's about as valuable right now.

[T master]

The game was too fast for him at FSU too. He plays with blinders on and sees/thinks way too slowly to ever be what we are all hoping for. Unfortunately.

 

That was every one of the experts thoughts in college don't know what the Bills saw in him . Sure he is a great kid but that doesn't transfer to wins .

 

What i really didn't get & still don't is why no solid back up plan ?

 

What should have happened is they should have kept Fitz , they are paying him any way Let EJ sit a year & Fitz teach him how to read the opponents D . You have to give it to Fitz for his smarts . Sure we got a young guy but the same out come so what has changed besides the age of the guy behind the center ?

 

Probably with this stable of WR's Fitz could have looked better & EJ could have been brought along like they use to do it in years past in the NFL . The upside they wouldn't be paying on a dead horse ...

[34-78-83]

What I don't like about Manuel's game is that when he goes back to pass he begins to stare down the reciever right away. I don't ever see him scan the field first. This is an obvious advantage to the corners and safties.

 

You can't do that on a 3 step drop play. If you scanned the field the primary wr's window would be closed. If we're seeing that a lot on 5 and seven step drop plays that would be a different story.

[CodeMonkey]

I wonder what they'd be saying if they ordered that list by QB height. Because that's about as valuable right now.

Unless of course Manuel was at the top of the list

 

Come on man, does it mean Manuel should be cut or is a bust, obviously not. But to have all of the giants QB's rated higher than all of the Bills QB's. As meaningless as height (which actually isn't meaningless, just ask Flutie ) ?

Edited August 4, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[ALF]

I can't believe they didn't keep EJ in the shotgun to be standing and scanning the defense able to throw right away ???

[You herd it hear last]

Unless of course Manuel was at the top of the list

 

Come on man, does it mean Manuel should be cut or is a bust, obviously not. But to have all of the giants QB's rated higher than all of the Bills QB's. As meaningless as height (which actually isn't meaningless, just ask Flutie ) ?

 

...or list by number of chest hairs I don't care. I'll choose to weight the positives I've seen out of even last years' scant pickings, than the 1st 7 passes of a PS game. I just don't see it as a rational and fair way to represent his abilities, that's all.

Especially with all the variables that go into a PS game about inexperience and future grocery clerks that are defending the receivers that Painter, Tuel etc are throwing to.

[Fadingpain]

Let's retreat to the tried & true method of attacking the posters. How many of the best analysts played the game? Did Joel Buchsbaum ever leave his mother's basement? Yet he was one of the best analysts ever.

 

There's a lot to gleam from EJ's body language in trying to predict his potential. Right now he's still too much of a robotic terminator to be an effective QB. To steal someone else's analysis, you can almost sense the circuits processing each movement - step to line, take handoff, step back, scan field, throw ball.

 

All good QBs have a much more noticeable fluidity to their game. He just doesn't look as natural playing the position as he should be and I don't know if this is something that can be fixed. It's not just fixing a throwing motion or correcting a quirky habit. It's almost his entire game needs to be reworked.

 

You don't need to have played the game to recognize his flaws and question whether there will be enough time to fix them, if they can be fixed at all.

 

Good post.

 

EJ is the opposite of Flutie. Flutie had certain physical handicaps, but was a pure baller and football player.

 

EJ has all the physical attributes in spades, but doesn't know how to play quarterback. We need the mental/amorphous attributes of Flutie stuffed into EJ's body. Then you'd have a hell of a QB to be feared.

 

Oh well. At the end of this season the EJ project will be over, and we will move forward. With new ownership too. Not a big deal really.

[Dorkington]

Alright, so EJ sucks. It's been decided.

 

Do we start Tuel? How much time does Tuel get?

 

Who do we draft next year in the 2nd round? Is there a guaranteed vet that we can trade for/sign that would be good?

 

I just don't get all this gnashing about how he's terrible because (xyz)... what solutions are there?

[seq004]

 

 

You can't do that on a 3 step drop play. If you scanned the field the primary wr's window would be closed. If we're seeing that a lot on 5 and seven step drop plays that would be a different story.

Your right. I realize you can't do that on 3 step drops, I should have clarified my post.

[Fadingpain]

Alright, so EJ sucks. It's been decided.

 

Do we start Tuel? How much time does Tuel get?

 

Who do we draft next year in the 2nd round? Is there a guaranteed vet that we can trade for/sign that would be good?

 

I just don't get all this gnashing about how he's terrible because (xyz)... what solutions are there?

 

No we don't start Tuel. He's no better.

 

This will play itself out. The new ownership will bring in new coaches, and a new plan. And that will include a new QB. All in the passage of time.

 

In the meantime, let's hope EJ proves me wrong and we go back to the playoffs this year.

 

Now that would be fantastic.