richNjoisy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) I don't get it. Moorman is 38 and was losing his leg years ago (and hence the Bills released him). Now he is 2 years plus removed from being released and he (seemingly) has no competition? The Ray Guy award winner from college last year is sitting at home. Why do they not bring in a young strong leg (like Tom Hornsey)? Maybe they have someone they plan to pick up after a release in late August? http://rayguyaward.com/tom-hornsey-2013/ Edited June 30, 2014 by richNjoisy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 They do not plan to punt. Good question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I bet they sign someone before camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 No love for the Polish guy from Harvard? http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-news/2014/4/9/5598290/buffalo-bills-sign-jake-dombrowski-brian-moorman-competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The kid has some talent. Here's my link of interest (watch the video) maybe it's the same as previous post via a different route. http://kohlskicking.com/nfl-profile/jacob-dombrowski If he can handle the directional kicking aspect, I think there's a great chance he'll win the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) as mentioned, they have the kid from Harvard. i've never seen a team have more than 2 punters at camp. that would be silly. 2 punters and 2 kickers, we do have some competition going Edited June 30, 2014 by kdiggz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Moorman, close to worst unchallenged position player in football at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iommi Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Moorman, close to worst unchallenged position player in football at this point. Not trying to be flippant but i'm curious based on what I've read of your posts. What do you like about this team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Not trying to be flippant but i'm curious based on what I've read of your posts. What do you like about this team? Potential is good. But what is potential, really, without production and it translating to victories? This was not a well coached team last year. I actually like EJ, I hope he can produce. I don't think he will be a big fantasy guy ever, but has maturity to be successful at the end of games. I liked the trade to get Sammy Watkins. I liked getting rid of Johnson, he hinders the development of a young QB with erratic pass patterns. I think Schwartz is a big upgrade of Pettine. There are some talented players, I am sick of excuses. I am a little more optimistic this year. Yes, I think Kyle Williams is the most overrated player in the NFL, the Bills have sucked against the run for 8 straight years, and he has been playing in the middle for 8 straight years, he is not big enough. There is no way around the on the field results, he is not a leader, he has no impact, he does not make the Bills better, and never has, and if you are not better you are getting worse. Gilmour has a lot to prove still. Aaron Williams was impressive last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 as mentioned, they have the kid from Harvard. i've never seen a team have more than 2 punters at camp. that would be silly. 2 punters and 2 kickers, we do have some competition going I'm sorry kdiggz if I sound obnoxious here - but I thought I was clear that by "challenged" I meant a real challenge. The Harvard kid averaged 5+ less yards net per kick. The Punter I mentioned won the top punting award . My question was about quality of the challenge. His stats certainly suggest he would be someone of value in camp. One only needed to look at the roster to see the Harvard kid. I then looked up his numbers and , IMO, they were mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I'm sorry kdiggz if I sound obnoxious here - but I thought I was clear that by "challenged" I meant a real challenge. The Harvard kid averaged 5+ less yards net per kick. The Punter I mentioned won the top punting award . My question was about quality of the challenge. His stats certainly suggest he would be someone of value in camp. One only needed to look at the roster to see the Harvard kid. I then looked up his numbers and , IMO, they were mediocre. they must think he is a challenger or they wouldn't have invited him to camp. that was my point. if there are better choices out there then i'm sure the scouting dept is looking into them. punters are a dime a dozen and they usually don't get drafted so there are a large number of them to choose from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Moorman, close to worst unchallenged position player in football at this point. I actually agree with you on this one!! Moorman was once great but he is done. The kid from Harvard is there but there has to be better options out there. It is weird that Moorman is the favorite to have a role as an NFL punter at this point in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) Google that Dombrowki kid. There's a video of him kicking one 70 yards with 5.6 sec. hangtime. No competition? Yeah, right. Edited June 30, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I'm betting Dombrowksi wins the punting job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Google that Dombrowki kid. There's a video of him kicking one 70 yards with 5.6 sec. hangtime. No competition? Yeah, right. C'mon promo that's one punt. What matters are his total numbers which look incredibly mediocre. Look I hope YOU are right and the kids great. But, jeesh, you really think one punt on youtube means the kid is "competition"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousetrap08 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Well you can tell it is that boring time of year when you start arguing over a punter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I'm sorry kdiggz if I sound obnoxious here - but I thought I was clear that by "challenged" I meant a real challenge. The Harvard kid averaged 5+ less yards net per kick. The Punter I mentioned won the top punting award . My question was about quality of the challenge. His stats certainly suggest he would be someone of value in camp. One only needed to look at the roster to see the Harvard kid. I then looked up his numbers and , IMO, they were mediocre. Did you check out the link I gave above in post #5? On that webpage there is a video of some of his Kohl's camp punts in a semi competition with Marquette King of the Raiders. Also, in the section ................ Kohl's Workouts Attended National Elite Camp - (Free Agent/College athletes) - July 18-20, 2013 Results Tampa, FL - Pro/College Training Camp - Jan. 27-28, 2013 ......... the results link is to the stats he compiled while winning their competition/evaluation. Arkansas punter Dylan Breeding (Redskins FA signing) came in 2nd. About 25% of his Harvard kicks were inside the 20 and his net average is close to 40. He is definintely, imo, a challenger for Moorman's roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Way too many posts about the punter. Ban! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I'm betting Dombrowksi wins the punting job. I would accept that bet. I have Moorman as the easy favorite. I think the staff is more comfortable with a vet with good hang time and consistency, over a younger guy with a big leg and less consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) I would accept that bet. I have Moorman as the easy favorite. I think the staff is more comfortable with a vet with good hang time and consistency, over a younger guy with a big leg and less consistency. I think that you're right JR. That to me begs the question why we can't have both? I suspect that Moorman will have the job but he isn't even serviceable anymore. I know that Bandit swears up and down that the kid from Memphis is the guy. I have no idea if anyone picked him up at or after the draft but might be worth a flier. It couldn't hurt. Edited July 1, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I think that you're right JR. That to me begs the question why we can't have both? I suspect that Moorman will have the job but he isn't even serviceable anymore. I know that Bandit swears up and down that the kid from Memphis is the guy. I have no idea if anyone picked him up at or after the draft but might be worth a flier. It couldn't hurt. I am the biggest moorman homer around, but even I was surprised that they didn't get legit competition for moorman. I kinda wonder if punter is a position where teams would rather be safe than good. Lot less likely to return a high 38 yarder with 4.8 hang time, than the line drives that Powell was booming. Given crossman is on a short leash, he also can't risk getting burned by an inconsistent rookie punter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I actually agree with you on this one!! Moorman was once great but he is done. The kid from Harvard is there but there has to be better options out there. It is weird that Moorman is the favorite to have a role as an NFL punter at this point in his career. Just curious, who are the better options out there(and why are they better). Why do you think the Bills have this punter from Harvard in camp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Just curious, who are the better options out there(and why are they better). Why do you think the Bills have this punter from Harvard in camp? Tom Hornsey would be my choice. Bandit has been swearing by him for months. He was the Ray Guy award winner last year and is available now. Edited July 1, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) C'mon promo that's one punt. What matters are his total numbers which look incredibly mediocre. Look I hope YOU are right and the kids great. But, jeesh, you really think one punt on youtube means the kid is "competition"? It wasn't one punt. Just admit the whole reason you don't see him as competition is you never heard of the guy, as if you ever hear about punters when they come out of college Edited July 1, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I would accept that bet. I have Moorman as the easy favorite. I think the staff is more comfortable with a vet with good hang time and consistency, over a younger guy with a big leg and less consistency. Moorman will have to improve immensely on his 32nd ranked net punting average. At 38 years old, that's a tall order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 It wasn't one punt. Just admit the whole reason you don't see him as competition is you never heard of the guy, as if you ever hear about punters when they come out of college Flip side- why we don't know much about him was because he was a UDFA that only got invited to try out at a single rookie camp last season and wasn't invited back to that or any other camp for a full year before becoming meaningful competition for our starting job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Tom Hornsey would be my choice. Bandit has been swearing by him for months. He was the Ray Guy award winner last year and is available now. Weird how this guy hasn't been signed, and several other rookies have (including one guy getting drafted). I read somewhere that the ray guy award is skewed by southern writers, and a pro-south bias (don't know if that is true). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Flip side- why we don't know much about him was because he was a UDFA that only got invited to try out at a single rookie camp last season and wasn't invited back to that or any other camp for a full year before becoming meaningful competition for our starting job. He had a tryout with the NFL franchise in Washington (where his lack of experience as a place holder was a big reason why they didn't sign him) and the kicking combine held in Arizona which I knew nothing of prior to reading this: http://www.petoskeyn...8d5836e808.html Edited July 1, 2014 by JESSEFEFFER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Without Googling, who can name the punter for the last 10 Super Bowl winning teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Without Googling, who can name the punter for the last 10 Super Bowl winning teams? No, but that doesn't diminish the importance of a good punter or the negative effects of a bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stowellez Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I think they are counting on consistency and good directional kicking. Moorman at least has that...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 My guesses are: 1. It is clear Moorman is a diminishing commodity but he is a known commodity. He is simply not gonna kick it a mile with any consistency, but he will kick it where you tell him he supposed to kick it in terms of directional kicking. Given the ST troubles we had last year and the significant number of new ST players Crossman is evaluating, not worrying about the punter issue and having some consistency for comparing players gives Moorman an upside a potentially better young punter brings to the game. 2. This is a young team and Moorman MAY have built and secured a role as a transition point between the players and the coaches which has proved valuable to the coaches. 3. Moorman is clearly a bright guy (I loved watching him think through and then argue with the NFL powers that be at a Pro Bowl athletic skills competition way back when. The competition had various tests of speed (a simple sprint section), agility (players had to high step through ropes on the field, raw strength (push a blocking sled a certain distance), etc. Moorman figured out that the penalty for not completing a particular skill was less than the time he would spend pushing the sled. He simply gave a cursory push to the sled and ran across the line taking a 5 second penalty for not pushing the sled over the line (but saved himself10 seconds+ by not wrestling the sled. He then successfully argued the powers that be that he had complied with the letter of the rules and was awarded the win. Not impressive athleticism at all but clearly a smart boy. I would not be surprised if in essence Moorman is like having an assistant coach on the field and actually not having serious competition for him both increased his authority with the young players and allows him to focus on the mental and teaching side of the game rather than worrying a ton about whether he will make the roster. 4. A big part of Moorman's accomplishments last year was not simply the diminishing punting distance but being the holder for the record setting PK performance. If someone spent the time analyzing the kicks, it would not shock me if Moorman is given credit to catching several errant snaps, getting the ball down with the laces spun properly and if kicker Carpenter gives Moorman a ton of credit for his record setting year and the Bills coaches know the quickest way to mess up the PK game would be to force Carpenter to break in a new holder. This all (or simply a portion of this since it is a guess) adds up to Moorman sticking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 It wasn't one punt. Just admit the whole reason you don't see him as competition is you never heard of the guy, as if you ever hear about punters when they come out of college I know I don't. I have no idea what is the talent coming out of college in punting as it is not important to me soma valid point. Moorman was an excellent punter for us for years, not only in distance and hang time, but directional punting and back in the day, those sneak runs when he was quick. It is time to move on and thank him for so many good years. I hope your right, and I would expect us to pick someone up or maybe two for camp and see if we can get younger. Since we are trying to build a ground and pound type team, with a massive line, and solid defense, punting matters. Shame on me for not looking into the talent at all. If we get a boomer, it will really help the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Flip side- why we don't know much about him was because he was a UDFA that only got invited to try out at a single rookie camp last season and wasn't invited back to that or any other camp for a full year before becoming meaningful competition for our starting job. True, but Moorman was also an UDFA, in 1999, and was only on Seattle's practice squad his first 2 years in the league, before signing and starting for the Bills in 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 No, but that doesn't diminish the importance of a good punter or the negative effects of a bad one. I agree. But to say there are bigger fish to fry would be an understatement. Let's get some quality starters and depth on the defense so we can stop teams from running and scoring at will. Moorman isn't going to cause this team to lose. The defense is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 as mentioned, they have the kid from Harvard. i've never seen a team have more than 2 punters at camp. that would be silly. 2 punters and 2 kickers, we do have some competition going Good to hear. I didn't realize we had another punter on the roster either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted July 1, 2014 Author Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) True, but Moorman was also an UDFA, in 1999, and was only on Seattle's practice squad his first 2 years in the league, before signing and starting for the Bills in 2001. In 2013, Moorman finished near the bottom of the NFL in average yards per punt (30th place at 41.2 yards per punt) and in punts inside the 20-yard line (31st place with 16). His average from 2012 to 2013 went down 3.6 yards and his punts inside the 20 fell by six. Now, Dombrowski, averaged 39.99 average at Harvard in his senior year in 2012 which was was enough to earn him All-Ivy League honors and an invite to Jacksonville Jaguars rookie mini-camp last season. Tom Hornsey booted 80 punts for a 42.7-yard average with a long of 63 and 24 inside the 20-yard line during his first taste of American football in '10. Led the nation and set the school record for number of punts in '11 after booming 95-42-L66-23. In '12, produced 60-43.4-L63-25 and had right knee surgery (torn meniscus) in May. Won the Ray Guy Award in '13 after recording 62-45.2-L79-29 and was the American Athletic Conference's Co-Special Teams Player of the Year. Was a threat during his career on fake punts, converting all four of his attempts with three rushes for 62 yards and completed a 61-yard pass. Almost all punters, Doc, are UDFA, not all but most. So no surprise Moorman was an UDFA. Your point that he was on a practice squad is valid - aka went unnoticed until the Bills snagged him. Not here but I have read that Dombrowski indeed has yet-to-be-seen talent that can be brought out through pro coaching. But I started this thread asking the question , "why no challenge to Moorman?" Hornsey was just one example of a college player with better stats. Edited July 1, 2014 by richNjoisy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Without Googling, who can name the punter for the last 10 Super Bowl winning teams? Not the point as it comes down to field position statistics. The current Bills seem to have less of a concern with special teams excellence. Maybe this is appropriate if it allows for better results elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 In 2013, Moorman finished near the bottom of the NFL in average yards per punt (30th place at 41.2 yards per punt) and in punts inside the 20-yard line (31st place with 16). His average from 2012 to 2013 went down 3.6 yards and his punts inside the 20 fell by six. Now, Dombrowski, averaged 39.99 average at Harvard in his senior year in 2012 which was was enough to earn him All-Ivy League honors and an invite to Jacksonville Jaguars rookie mini-camp last season. Tom Hornsey booted 80 punts for a 42.7-yard average with a long of 63 and 24 inside the 20-yard line during his first taste of American football in '10. Led the nation and set the school record for number of punts in '11 after booming 95-42-L66-23. In '12, produced 60-43.4-L63-25 and had right knee surgery (torn meniscus) in May. Won the Ray Guy Award in '13 after recording 62-45.2-L79-29 and was the American Athletic Conference's Co-Special Teams Player of the Year. Was a threat during his career on fake punts, converting all four of his attempts with three rushes for 62 yards and completed a 61-yard pass. Almost all punters, Doc, are UDFA, not all but most. So no surprise Moorman was an UDFA. Your point that he was on a practice squad is valid - aka went unnoticed until the Bills snagged him. Not here but I have read that Dombrowski indeed has yet-to-be-seen talent that can be brought out through pro coaching. But I started this thread asking the question , "why no challenge to Moorman?" Hornsey was just one example of a college player with better stats. Again, its not simply about punt ability. One of the biggest contributions Moorman made to putting actual points on the board was Morman's partnership with Carpenter. Moorman was nearly flawless in fielding sometimes pretty errant long snaps in rude Buffalo weather and getting the ball set for PK. Part of the reason there is little competition for Mormann is the Bills do not want to risk something that works well for putting points on the board for a team which had to settle for FGs too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Not the point as it comes down to field position statistics. The current Bills seem to have less of a concern with special teams excellence. Maybe this is appropriate if it allows for better results elsewhere. I don't think the Bills have lost any games due to poor field position resulting from poor punting. He can pin every team on the 1-yard-line all season long. As long as our defense continues to allow the other team to execute a 99-yard, 8 minutes-long, scoring drive - the Bills will continue to lose. I'm not saying we couldn't use a better punter. I'm simply saying the Bills' primary focus should be on fixing the problems that more directly result in losing football games; then focus on making the other team start their drive another 6-yards deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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