KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 People are guessing this was leaked by Marrone or Whaley. What if it was leaked by Brandon? It's funny...I thought the same thing... Of course that may be due to the fact that I just finished the 2nd season of "House Of Cards..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Brandon is supposed to be President and CEO and in HIS words from HIS press conference, Ralph told him "He told me he was passing the torch to me to run the franchise in totality. He has granted me full authority to run the franchise with zero restrictions and zero limitations." --- If this is the case, Brandon, like a good CEO would set the strategy and responsibilities for Littman, Whaley, Overdorf etc -- so, he is either complicit or incompetent, take your choice. You summed this up quite well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 timmah is on twitter answering some questions - i normally avoid it but in an effort to wrap my head around this story i peeked. some tidbits dropped amongst his normal nonsense. in response to a question about Littman and Overdorff being defacto co-GMs: The very idea that Littman and Overdorf may have "significant control over football matters" is well beyond disturbing for me as a Bills fan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 and of course a bunch of jabs at people, such as these: Quote So I've reached a new low. A guy who runs a sportscard shop an sells figurines is mocking me for not being able to get women. #Buffalove Trying to rag on people with your business account. That's the joke. Go sort some Paul Gaustad rookies, Mr. Grown Up. Don't know if the card guy had it coming or not, but those are pretty good zingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonprophet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Carpenter's system worked well for guys like Jack Kemp, Billy Shaw, Tom Sestak, and Jim Dunaway but it's too out dated for todays players. Yes, Carpenter was a real innovator back then with his stim and ice therapy when the predominant therapy was "Quit yer whinin' and walk it off, you pansy!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It's funny...I thought the same thing... Of course that may be due to the fact that I just finished the 2nd season of "House Of Cards..." Is not like Russ is brand new to the organization. He could have known these guys were problems when he took the job. It's possible he thought he could get change them, but hasn't found success with the direct approach, and doesn't have the power to let them go on his own. No matter the source, I wouldn't expect sudden changes. Even if Russ agrees, and has the go ahead from Ralph, he can't just fire them like this. Best you can hope for is a Nix/Whaley passing of the torch situation in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Bills Backer Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The very idea that Littman and Overdorf may have "significant control over football matters" is well beyond disturbing for me as a Bills fan... I would agree. Long time fans know that these guys have had say and been yes men for Ralph for the entirety of the losing the past 14 years. Its time they get tossed to the curb. Im glad the report is out so at least maybe something will happen. I'll be curious if Brandon actually will respond. The fans want a winner, he claims to be committed to that. Its time for him to do more than just talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Kind of a fascinating situation, really. Now that this is out there, it really needs to be addressed by someone in the FO. Otherwise, the fans are going to believe that Whaley and Marrone are working with one hand tied behind their backs, and who's going to support that? Especially after last year's pronouncement that Brandon's the one overseeing everything. Will he just ignore this and hope it goes away? Will he try to spin it differently? Will he take action? All avenues have some sort of repercussion, it would seem. But how can something happen now? I don't think Russ wants to be known as someone who can be manipulated through a blog post sighting "sources". but I am with you on how do they not address it??? Surprised TG says in his tweets Littman would have final say over firings...does that fly in the face of everything Russ told us 01/01/2013? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It's funny...I thought the same thing... Of course that may be due to the fact that I just finished the 2nd season of "House Of Cards..." Gotta see this show... this is the 3rd comparison of HOC to OBD I've seen today....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Just in case I missed it: why do we believe this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Gotta see this show... this is the 3rd comparison of HOC to OBD I've seen today....lol It's awesome Bro...Can't recommend it enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Just in case I missed it: why do we believe this? i think theres varying degrees of belief. i do believe that tim spoke with someone that indicated those things. whether that person was an a good source, and what to take away from it all is a whole different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 For all we know this could be coming from a pissed off janitor who's tired of trying to scrub urine smell out of the conference room chairs from all the cranky inconvenient fossils at OBD for a story with this much meat it came from more then a janitor. This story has too many damning bits to just be a revenge grudge. It is not blow the world up but it is a skid mark on your jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 i think theres varying degrees of belief. i do believe that tim spoke with someone that indicated those things. whether that person was an a good source, and what to take away from it all is a whole different story. I have no doubt Tim spoke with someone...having read some of the articles linked to on this site from him in recent weeks, it's hard not to notice the divergence between a direct quote and the picture that he paints in his article. That just makes it very difficult to take his reporting at face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Is not like Russ is brand new to the organization. He could have known these guys were problems when he took the job. It's possible he thought he could get change them, but hasn't found success with the direct approach, and doesn't have the power to let them go on his own. No matter the source, I wouldn't expect sudden changes. Even if Russ agrees, and has the go ahead from Ralph, he can't just fire them like this. Best you can hope for is a Nix/Whaley passing of the torch situation in my opinion. My inclination is to believe that when Brandon took control he knew it was only a matter of time before Whaley was elevated...And he wanted that...So I'm assuming the decision to bring Marrone in was Brandon and Whaley in full agreement...That basically makes Brandon, Whaley, and Marrone connected at the hip...I would not be surprised at all if this is a calculated spin by those three to cut the "lifers" off at the knees...Brandon is fully aware of the ability this fan base has in effecting change...He's a marketing guy for pete's sake...If that's what is actually happening here it's brilliant...And I would absolutely love Brandon, Whaley, and Marrone for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) for a story with this much meat it came from more then a janitor. This story has too many damning bits to just be a revenge grudge. It is not blow the world up but it is a skid mark on your jock It's also stuff alot of informed fans already knew about in the back of our minds regarding "the old guard". The only difference now is that it is taking off in the media and not just some whispers on a message board which have frequented this issue for close to a decade now from what I can remember...maybe even longer. Edited February 24, 2014 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 My inclination is to believe that when Brandon took control he knew it was only a matter of time before Whaley was elevated...And he wanted that...So I'm assuming the decision to bring Marrone in was Brandon and Whaley in full agreement...That basically makes Brandon, Whaley, and Marrone connected at the hip...I would not be surprised at all if this is a calculated spin by those three to cut the "lifers" off at the knees...Brandon is fully aware of the ability this fan base has in effecting change...He's a marketing guy for pete's sake...If that's what is actually happening here it's brilliant...And I would absolutely love Brandon, Whaley, and Marrone for it... My understanding based on what I've been told--and others on the board have confirmed that they've been told this as well--is that hiring Marrone was the decision of Nix & Whaley. Brandon gave his 2 cents, while also telling Nix/Whaley that the hire was their final decision. As to the rest of the speculation, I have zero input...sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) benjaminkota @ByTimGraham who in the org has the final say to fire the old guard? 2/23/14, 10:22 PM ByTimGraham @benjaminkota Ralph, technically. But probably Jeff Littmann. 2/23/14, 10:22 PM benjaminkota @mrdeadlier @ByTimGraham tweeted me that Ralph or littman have final say to fire old guard. No mention Of Brandon. Does he have any power? 2/23/14, 10:36 PM ByTimGraham @benjaminkota Russ has a lot of power, but "final say" was my response. @mrdeadlier 2/23/14, 10:40 PM Kind of interesting in light of Brandon's claim that he was given "full authority to run the franchise with zero restrictions and zero limitations." Edited February 24, 2014 by Rubes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Kind of interesting in light of Brandon's claim that he was given "full authority to run the franchise with zero restrictions and zero limitations." Some might call it an outright lie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 My understanding based on what I've been told--and others on the board have confirmed that they've been told this as well--is that hiring Marrone was the decision of Nix & Whaley. Brandon gave his 2 cents, while also telling Nix/Whaley that the hire was their final decision. As to the rest of the speculation, I have zero input...sorry. I thought Brandon and Marrone had a connection through SU? I always assumed the way Brandon talked about Marrone that he was Russ' first choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Some might call it an outright lie... That's one hell of a speculative accusation based on Tim Graham's speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Some might call it an outright lie... Those that would call it so would have to be functioning under the assumption that what Graham is saying is accurate. That's worth noting... I thought Brandon and Marrone had a connection through SU? I always assumed the way Brandon talked about Marrone that he was Russ' first choice... He probably was Russ' first choice...the hire was Nix/Whaley's call though...they had the ability to hire whomever they wanted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) The next time the Dougs or Russ are available to respond to questions, I would hope that the Buffalo media directly ask these guys the questions raised by TG (which are based on whatever sourcing). For example, Marrone should be asked whether he has tried to get Bud Carpenter (fill in whatever other name you want) fired. If so, why? If not, do you have confidence in him? The same with Whaley. The fact is that -- whether this is true or not -- the Bills either have to put out the fires that are being created (or attempted to be created) or move on. The Bills also need to get out front of this story and get beyond it one way or another. As I mentioned before, whoever leaked this (if any of this is true) should have tried to resolve all of this in house rather than go crying to the media. Coaches B word and moan about players going to or leaking to the media. If someone within the team actually leaked this, they should have quit instead if they are unhappy with the resolution. Leaking to TG (again, if any of this is true) does not show a lot of leadership or courage (especially given that, if there was a leak, it was anonymous). On the other hand, if I were in charge, I would consider firing whoever leaked this story. This was someone's attempt to cry and take his ball home when he did not get his way (again presuming any of this is true). The worst part is going to the media about Bud Carpenter (I have no use for Littman). Here is a guy who is a working stiff who does not make millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars like say Marrone or Whaley and presumably supports a family on whatever he makes. He has been loyal to the organization. As far as I know he is respected by his peers. It is ludicrous to suggest (as TG initial blog does) that the Bills have not made the playoffs because of Bud Carpenter. The whole thing is a cheap shot and gratuitous. Edited February 24, 2014 by Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 He probably was Russ' first choice...the hire was Nix/Whaley's call though...they had the ability to hire whomever they wanted Got ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The next time the Dougs or Russ are available to respond to questions, I would hope that the Buffalo media directly ask these guys the questions raised by TG (which are based on whatever sourcing). For example, Marrone should be asked whether he has tried to get Bud Carpenter (fill in whatever other name you want) fired. If so, why? If not, do you have confidence in him? The same with Whaley. The fact is that -- whether this is true or not -- the Bills either have to put out the fires that are being created (or attempted to be created) or move on. The Bills also need to get out front of this story and get beyond it one way or another. As I mentioned before, whoever leaked this (if any of this is true) should have tried to resolve all of this in house rather than crying to the media. Coaches B word and moan about players going to or leaking to the media. If someone within the team actually leaked this, they should have quit instead if they are unhappy with the resolution. On the other hand, if I were in charge, I would consider firing whoever leaked this story. This was someone's attempt to cry and go home when he did not get his way (again presuming any of this is true). The worst part is going to the media about Bud Carpenter (I have no use for Littman). Here is a guy who is a working stiff who does not make millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars like say Marrone or Whaley and presumably supports a family on whatever he makes. He has been loyal to the organization. As far as I know he is respected by his peers. It is ludicrous to suggest (as TG initial blog does) that the Bills have not made the playoffs because of Bud Carpenter. The whole thing is a cheap shot and gratuitous. I have to agree...this whole report reeks of trying to stir up controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 My inclination is to believe that when Brandon took control he knew it was only a matter of time before Whaley was elevated...And he wanted that...So I'm assuming the decision to bring Marrone in was Brandon and Whaley in full agreement...That basically makes Brandon, Whaley, and Marrone connected at the hip...I would not be surprised at all if this is a calculated spin by those three to cut the "lifers" off at the knees...Brandon is fully aware of the ability this fan base has in effecting change...He's a marketing guy for pete's sake...If that's what is actually happening here it's brilliant...And I would absolutely love Brandon, Whaley, and Marrone for it... What does Brandon get from siding with the Dougs by going after Littmann and Overdorf via this report? Aside from a big headache, nothing. The point is, Russ learned from Ralph, with the latter being very connected with Littmann. The announcement on 1/1/13 was nothing more than a re-arranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic. Nothing really changed that day and Russ never planned to deviate from the established management structure at OBD and in Detroit. Russ is part of the problem, not the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan714 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) What is there to discuss here? I can't believe the amount of people rushing to protect these guys. Over the last 14 years of futility the Bills have replaced numerous players, coaches and GMs and that's gotten us nowhere. It's way past the time we start weeding out the guys on top. You are absolutely right. There has always been a group of posters on here who will defend anything the Bills do. Modrak had his defenders on here right until the end. It was never his fault---he just sets the board!!! If they cant defend what the Bills are doing then they attack the messenger, in this case Graham. Edited February 24, 2014 by billsfan714 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgetty Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Brandon is the President/CEO of the Bills but Litmann controls Ralph's overall finances. It is like being the president of the news division of NBC. You are still at the mercy of the people at corporate. Littman is in charge, always had Ralph's ear and probably always will. Brandon is more than a figure head, but less than a final authority. Would be nice to be seen as the reason for an amazing ROI like a NFL franschise. Litmann must be the luckiest man on the planet. Edited February 24, 2014 by ecgetty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 What does Brandon get from siding with the Dougs by going after Littmann and Overdorf via this report? Aside from a big headache, nothing. The point is, Russ learned from Ralph, with the latter being very connected with Littmann. The announcement on 1/1/13 was nothing more than a re-arranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic. Nothing really changed that day and Russ never planned to deviate from the established management structure at OBD and in Detroit. Russ is part of the problem, not the solution. What does he have to gain!? What does he have to lose!? If it doesn't workout and the team continues to lose, he's absolved for his post-Bills career/ If it does workout, and they start winning, he's a hero for doing it in spite of the penny pinchers. If he **** cans the penny pinchers, there is zero mystery where is leverage comes from. Just because you don't provide any answers to your rhetorical questions, doesn't mean none exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 What does Brandon get from siding with the Dougs by going after Littmann and Overdorf via this report? Aside from a big headache, nothing. The point is, Russ learned from Ralph, with the latter being very connected with Littmann. The announcement on 1/1/13 was nothing more than a re-arranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic. Nothing really changed that day and Russ never planned to deviate from the established management structure at OBD and in Detroit. Russ is part of the problem, not the solution. That may very well be 100% true...And if it is I'm guessing Marrone and Whaley will jump off the deck of that Titanic before the thing even sinks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgetty Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 People are guessing this was leaked by Marrone or Whaley. What if it was leaked by Brandon? I thought the same thing. But Graham was tweeting about Brandon being silent earlier in the weekend. Smokescreen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 What does Brandon get from siding with the Dougs by going after Littmann and Overdorf via this report? Aside from a big headache, nothing. The point is, Russ learned from Ralph, with the latter being very connected with Littmann. The announcement on 1/1/13 was nothing more than a re-arranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic. Nothing really changed that day and Russ never planned to deviate from the established management structure at OBD and in Detroit. Russ is part of the problem, not the solution. So let's see, things that apparently haven't changed since Russ didn't take over on 1/1/13: New GM New coach New head of college scouting New director of player personnel Re-vamped scouting department Finally drafted a QB with the team's first draft pick (for the first time ever) Finally started drafting players for talent as opposed to only drafting choir boys Shall I continue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I thought the same thing. But Graham was tweeting about Brandon being silent earlier in the weekend. Smokescreen? Silent...But deadly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) i think theres varying degrees of belief. i do believe that tim spoke with someone that indicated those things. whether that person was an a good source, and what to take away from it all is a whole different story. Tim and the Buffalo News wouldn't run the story unless it had a very solid source. So it's not some low-level employee. I think it's a power play. Edited February 24, 2014 by thisiskeith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 What does Brandon get from siding with the Dougs by going after Littmann and Overdorf via this report? Aside from a big headache, nothing. The point is, Russ learned from Ralph, with the latter being very connected with Littmann. The announcement on 1/1/13 was nothing more than a re-arranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic. Nothing really changed that day and Russ never planned to deviate from the established management structure at OBD and in Detroit. Russ is part of the problem, not the solution. haha, good point! Does anything this team does really matter until ownership changes hands? I can recall Wilson complaining to the media how much it cost him to send his employees to the super bowl. I get the impression that he would rather avoid the playoffs because of all the costs that would incur. Like everyone wants a raise for success, more players in the pro bowl that will want more money. (What was someone else's comment... success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.) Fans getting jaded after they get used to winning and stop attending games. Which is what happened in Indy this year. Look how long it took for this franchise to utilize the first #1 pick in the draft for a QB, and that was out of desperation. It might not even work out considering the disinterest in building a superior offensive line. #1 & #2 picks all day long in the defense, secondary, LBers, and D line. But forget about getting the rookie QB better protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Imagine if this was an Ed Werder story about Dallas or Phili. It'd be lead on every sports show. Glad to be Buffalo. Not joking. Let this be fixed with out the fanfare circus the national media brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) SB Nation NFL @SBNationNFL 1h Rifts in the Bills' front office? @BuffRumblings has more http://www.buffaloru...-whaley-marrone Edited February 24, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 KevinMassare We have been told Jeffrey Littmann will never be replaced. He is Wilson's finance guy for ALL his endeavors. He will leave when Ralph does. 2/24/14, 3:43 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) So let's see, things that apparently haven't changed since Russ didn't take over on 1/1/13: New GM New coach New head of college scouting New director of player personnel Re-vamped scouting department Finally drafted a QB with the team's first draft pick (for the first time ever) Finally started drafting players for talent as opposed to only drafting choir boys Shall I continue? Something else that hasn't changed, the 6-10 record ! (sorry, couldn't resist ) Edited February 24, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 There are going to be MAJOR changes at OBD. I would predict that littman gets demoted to berchtold's job, overdorf is promoted to littman's job, and marv levy is hired to replace overdorf. As a result of these changes, Bills season ticket sales then soar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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