BillsVet Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Given TGs glowing review last year, I was going to say its possible that Parker is using this to create unrest in the front office. Knowing how bad fans want to hear this, there'd be few questions and more "I knew it." Both the source (TG) and the timing (smack dab in Byrd talks and not at the close of the season) atleast qualify as possible indicators. I'm skipping the TG article and relying on the cliff notes and conversation though. Now Parker is pitting the front office/coaching staff against their senior management? Whoa. Talk about a conspiracy theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 This could have been leaked by Byrd's camp. Most likely. As NoSaint said, the timing is too convenient, especially after word leaked that the Bills would franchise Byrd if a contract wasn't agreed-on. As for the trainers, I'm not up on it, but what do they want done differently? And I'm not surprised that the coaches want to keep players but Littman and Overdorf have to manage the cap. And if this "rift" is specifically about Byrd, I agree that they shouldn't be paying him $10M/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Now Parker is pitting the front office/coaching staff against their senior management? Whoa. Talk about a conspiracy theory. I'm not saying he's creating it out of thin air but I would say pushing that riff could get him closer to what he wants. So maybe he's floating some info. He has a client who probably would like littman/overdorf marginalized or pressured to spend as well as a client that after two years dealing with the training staff may be unhappy. And if the bills want to continue business as usual it may help his client out the door. Doesn't seem thaaaat much crazier than our front office using Tim graham against each other during the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Looks like Tiny Tim dug up some of Larry Felser's old columns, dusted them off, changed a few names, and put his name on thy byline. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 'Marrone and Whaley also are said to be highly interested in changing the Bills' this-is-the-way-we've-always-done-it culture.' Well if this is really Brandons team and he said its a 'New Era' Then he needs to listen to Marrone and Whaley and start with the Training staff. I am sure there is much more that needs to be changed as well. What is the definition of insanity? I would say Brandon aka he still answers to Ralph although he says he doesn't, Jeffery Littman the money man for Ralph Wilson etal. I am also willing to bet Whaley wants to handle Contracts now. That would put our long time capologist out of work. That would REALLY upset the apple cart Time to move on from the old guard. It's obviously failing us. Time for a fresh new outlook IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 http://bills.buffalo...s-organization/ OH SNAP! Somebody please help me. How is Berchtold responsible for Marrone botching media sessions? To paraphrase Animal house Littman? Gone! Overdorf? Gone! Berchtold? Who gives a rat's ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 So, Tim Graham wants to stir up some controversy? Shocking. This guy has no credibility so I will believe this when a credible source reports it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Tim Graham reported "team sources" not people outside the organization. Fabricating sources is unethical and can get a reporter terminated, ruining their career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 This is something I've still nor wrapped my head around the to swallow. from Coach Tuesdays thoughts to NoSaints i have just an itch on the back of my head. This is not something setting easy on the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Tim Graham reported "team sources" not people outside the organization. Fabricating sources is unethical and can get a reporter terminated, ruining their career. Fair enough, but you dont think parkers people could plant a bit of a story in his ear and send him on his way perhaps even to folks they know agree? like i said, i dont think hes making it up or anything - simply that the timing and source just seem a bit off, if it was simply all on the bills side.... something just sitting a little funny in my head. Edited February 24, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Fair enough, but you dont think parkers people could plant a bit of a story in his ear and send him on his way perhaps even to folks they know agree? like i said, i dont think hes making it up or anything - simply that the timing and source just seem a bit off, if it was simply all on the bills side.... something just sitting a little funny in my head. Interesting point. It's not like TG hasn't done shill pieces for Parker before. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Somebody please help me. How is Berchtold responsible for Marrone botching media sessions? To paraphrase Animal house Littman? Gone! Overdorf? Gone! Berchtold? Who gives a rat's ass? Because that is his job. Marrone doesn't set up the press conferences. I assume they are talking about the end of the season one where certain team members were "supposed" to be available, they didn't know, then the local media started complaining, got tweeted out, RTd 1000 times, the Bills had to grab guys out of airports to get the media to stop crying, etc. As far as the stuff about Mario's foot and EJ's knee, I think they are talking about the training staff giving bad info or no info and making him look like he doesn't know anything (i.e. EJ will 110% be ready for NE, etc). Edited February 24, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Fair enough, but you dont think parkers people could plant a bit of a story in his ear and send him on his way perhaps even to folks they know agree? like i said, i dont think hes making it up or anything - simply that the timing and source just seem a bit off, if it was simply all on the bills side.... something just sitting a little funny in my head. No. I take it that Graham is at the combine and got some of the "new guy" faction to talk to him a bit about how things are run within the organization. Doug Whaley spoke on the record about the on-going process, in fact. If you read what he said carefully, it is completely consistent with what Graham wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 How old IS Ralph anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 No. I take it that Graham is at the combine and get some of the "new guy" faction to talk to him a bit about how things are run within the organization. Doug Whaley spoke on the record about the on-going process, in fact. If you read what he said carefully, it is completely consistent with what Graham wrote. Yes, I see it as more of a leak from Marrone and Whaley. Marrone specifically has said on record he loves Byrd and wants him back. Leaking this will place the blame away from him and Whaley if he doesn't get signed, which is likely where it should be. How old IS Ralph anyway? Turns 96 in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Turns 96 in October. Ninety freaking six. The man defies odds, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 No. I take it that Graham is at the combine and get some of the "new guy" faction to talk to him a bit about how things are run within the organization. Doug Whaley spoke on the record about the on-going process, in fact. If you read what he said carefully, it is completely consistent with what Graham wrote. it certainly could be as simple as him grabbing a beer in the hotel lobby with a few staffers. heck, on the trainer front, its not the first time weve recently heard issues - even with the mario stuff chans final year. that its trainers, cap guy, and media guy called out- in the middle of a public contract dispute with a guy spending his weeks in the trainers office and its coming from a known parker guy, right after the first serious meeting with parker just seemed like it could all line up pretty well. not asserting it must be that, just that the flags are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 it certainly could be as simple as him grabbing a beer in the hotel lobby with a few staffers. heck, on the trainer front, its not the first time weve recently heard issues - even with the mario stuff chans final year. that its trainers, cap guy, and media guy called out- in the middle of a public contract dispute with a guy spending his weeks in the trainers office and its coming from a known parker guy, right after the first serious meeting with parker just seemed like it could all line up pretty well. not asserting it must be that, just that the flags are there. I agree but you're taking it one step too far - the leak more likely came from those within OBD who are hoping to sign Byrd, as opposed to Byrd's agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Because that is his job. Marrone doesn't set up the press conferences. I assume they are talking about the end of the season one where certain team members were "supposed" to be available, they didn't know, then the local media started complaining, got tweeted out, RTd 1000 times, the Bills had to grab guys out of airports to get the media to stop crying, etc. No, that's not what Graham is referencing. He specifically mentions 2 instances, Mario's foot and Manuel's knee. How is Berchtold responsible for Marrone botching these interviews? Berchtold may set up press conferences but he doesn't tell Marrone what to say, does he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I agree but you're taking it one step too far - the leak more likely came from those within OBD who are hoping to sign Byrd, as opposed to Byrd's agent. That's my take. If there is anything Russ hates it is bad PR. I sense some changes coming, whether they sign Byrd or tag him. I think they'll let Whaley negotiate the contracts and will give Marrone a new training staff. Russ has no loyalty to those guys, right? Nor should he if they aren't producing. He'll change their responsibilities, but not fire, Overdorf, Littman. If they want to leave because of it, go right ahead. No idea about Berchtold.If he doesn't like being called an SID, he can leave too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Berchtold may set up press conferences but he doesn't tell Marrone what to say, does he? Apparently he does - or at least tells him what he can't say - hence the "Information Director" nickname... That's my take. If there is anything Russ hates it is bad PR. I sense some changes coming, whether they sign Byrd or tag him. I think they'll let Whaley negotiate the contracts and will give Marrone a new training staff. Russ has no loyalty to those guys, right? Nor should he if they aren't producing. He'll change their responsibilities, but not fire, Overdorf, Littman. If they want to leave because of it, go right ahead. No idea about Berchtold.If he doesn't like being called an SID, he can leave too. Why do you sense changes coming? The "board room" isn't going to fire itself - the implication of Graham's report is that Brandon does not have the authority or clout to make these changes. It's far more depressing than I could have imagined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Apparently he does - or at least tells him what he can't say - hence the "Information Director" nickname... Yes, that is how it works at colleges anyway. The SID gives the injury info to the media, maybe it was different than what he was hearing from the trainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I agree but you're taking it one step too far - the leak more likely came from those within OBD who are hoping to sign Byrd, as opposed to Byrd's agent. fair enough. i guess, im hoping that its spurred by a motivated agent that might be helping along a story of common discontent, and not an office so split that they are seeking out reporters. Why do you sense changes coming? The "board room" isn't going to fire itself - the implication of Graham's report is that Brandon does not have the authority or clout to make these changes. It's far more depressing than I could have imagined... i think thats what im hoping isnt the case. if true, very depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Apparently he does - or at least tells him what he can't say - hence the "Information Director" nickname... I don't buy it. But, back to the big picture... This isn't a 3 headed monster. Berchtold is at best an afterthought. Handle the other 2 and leave the toady alone, he doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 And this is what I am talking about. When you hire tired old hands like Jauron and Gailey they take what you give them and are just glad to have the job. Whaley and Marrone aren't spent yet. It's about time somebody they hired had the balls to let it be known that they weren't willing to go down in flames with bad decisions from Ralph's inner circle just to get a chance to stay in the game for another season. This is a direct slap in the face to all of the people who claimed that great change had been made within the organization. You were wrong. When the coach and GM have to float their gripe into the local media......whom they rarely share anything with.....you know that they feel their lack of power within the organization is a problem. It is so weird that we can read the same piece and come away with 2 completely different takes. To me this says that those people are right. Instead of just going with it as we have seen Jauron and Gailey do, they are directly questioning and challenging it. You even say as much in your first paragraph. I agree completely that these guys are the problem. Littman and Overdorf have been around for a looooonnng time and had success 20+ years ago in a non salary cap era. The only thing they have been successful at lately is lining Ralph's pockets. Marrone and Whaley are actually interested in winning and that does not coincide with the make as much money as possible ideology that has been par for the course for quite some time here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It is so weird that we can read the same piece and come away with 2 completely different takes. To me this says that those people are right. Instead of just going with it as we have seen Jauron and Gailey do, they are directly questioning and challenging it. You even say as much in your first paragraph. I agree completely that these guys are the problem. Littman and Overdorf have been around for a looooonnng time and had success 20+ years ago in a non salary cap era. The only thing they have been successful at lately is lining Ralph's pockets. Marrone and Whaley are actually interested in winning and that does not coincide with the make as much money as possible ideology that has been par for the course for quite some time here. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 No, that's not what Graham is referencing. He specifically mentions 2 instances, Mario's foot and Manuel's knee. How is Berchtold responsible for Marrone botching these interviews? Berchtold may set up press conferences but he doesn't tell Marrone what to say, does he? I gather that is exactly the inference we are to make. If Marrone is told he is not supposed to answer questions about X and Y, then he is asked those questions, he has to dance around them. Then, when the truth comes out anyway, he looks like a clown. Thus enmity arises between him and the SID, who reports to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It is so weird that we can read the same piece and come away with 2 completely different takes. To me this says that those people are right. Instead of just going with it as we have seen Jauron and Gailey do, they are directly questioning and challenging it. You even say as much in your first paragraph. I agree completely that these guys are the problem. Littman and Overdorf have been around for a looooonnng time and had success 20+ years ago in a non salary cap era. The only thing they have been successful at lately is lining Ralph's pockets. Marrone and Whaley are actually interested in winning and that does not coincide with the make as much money as possible ideology that has been par for the course for quite some time here. I think you two are talking past each other, because you seem to be agreeing, not disagreeing. Littman and Overdorf are the problem; Whaley and Marrone are right in calling them out. The sad reality is that Whaley and Marrone are not in control of the team; Littman and Overdorf are... that is what was supposed to have changed when Brandon took the reigns. They made a big show of it - how Brandon was now Ralph, and everyone would report up to him. Clearly that was not done, and we're back where we were before that dog-and-pony show. It's a joke, and it rests with the owner, who is a greedy jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 This is disheartening to hear as the culture at OBD has not changed. Then again, I guess we shouldn’t be surprised as Littmann, Overdorf, and Berchtold have been part of the problem in Buffalo for years. Russ Brandon is supposed to be the man in completely in charge at OBD, but it doesn’t appear that way as Whaley and Marrone keep running into roadblocks with the front office. I hate to say it, but I don’t think anything will change until the Bills have a new owner and the three stooges “Littmann, Overdorf, and Berchtold” are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Yes, there's always hope... hope that new ownership will be here soon. Yes, there are billionaires lining up to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I don't buy it. But, back to the big picture... This isn't a 3 headed monster. Berchtold is at best an afterthought. Handle the other 2 and leave the toady alone, he doesn't matter. Yes, the SID or whatever he is, is the least of their issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It is so weird that we can read the same piece and come away with 2 completely different takes. To me this says that those people are right. Instead of just going with it as we have seen Jauron and Gailey do, they are directly questioning and challenging it. You even say as much in your first paragraph. I agree completely that these guys are the problem. Littman and Overdorf have been around for a looooonnng time and had success 20+ years ago in a non salary cap era. The only thing they have been successful at lately is lining Ralph's pockets. Marrone and Whaley are actually interested in winning and that does not coincide with the make as much money as possible ideology that has been par for the course for quite some time here. Looking at the same coin from two sides. There was obviously change in middle-management. There has also been little substantive change on the "lifer" side of the equation and, according to this report, the real power structure. So both are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I think you two are talking past each other, because you seem to be agreeing, not disagreeing. Littman and Overdorf are the problem; Whaley and Marrone are right in calling them out. The sad reality is that Whaley and Marrone are not in control of the team; Littman and Overdorf are... that is what was supposed to have changed when Brandon took the reigns. They made a big show of it - how Brandon was now Ralph, and everyone would report up to him. Clearly that was not done, and we're back where we were before that dog-and-pony show. It's a joke, and it rests with the owner, who is a greedy jerk. I think it is probably somewhere in the middle. Brandon does have control, but he hasn't made all the changes yet that the coach and GM want. Whether he will or not - we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Looking at the same coin from two sides. There was obviously change in middle-management. There has also been little substantive change on the "lifer" side of the equation and, according to this report, the real power structure. So both are true. Yeah that makes some sense. Hopefully we see the change that many of us have been asking(begging?) for years to happen. It will be a good day when these guys are no longer making decisions for the Bills. Marrone and Whaley seem like a team that can change the Bills course around and get it back on the right track (read winning) but if they are hamstrung they will become 2 more people that will believe and have evidence of - don't go to Buffalo, you can't win there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 No, that's not what Graham is referencing. He specifically mentions 2 instances, Mario's foot and Manuel's knee. How is Berchtold responsible for Marrone botching these interviews? Berchtold may set up press conferences but he doesn't tell Marrone what to say, does he? Yes, he does. And he tells the reporters what to ask. I don't buy it. But, back to the big picture... This isn't a 3 headed monster. Berchtold is at best an afterthought. Handle the other 2 and leave the toady alone, he doesn't matter. I'm not trying to persuade you here, I'm just flat out telling you how it is. I know the guy who does his job for the Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I gather that is exactly the inference we are to make. If Marrone is told he is not supposed to answer questions about X and Y, then he is asked those questions, he has to dance around them. Then, when the truth comes out anyway, he looks like a clown. Thus enmity arises between him and the SID, who reports to ? So, he would be told to say that he's 110% certain that Manuel would play the final game of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Yes, he does. And he tells the reporters what to ask. The awkwardness coming from him not writing the reporters' articles for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 And I agree, SID is the least of their worries, but for HIM to get revealed by a major local reporter is indicative of some level of mutiny. You best believe Timmah called him before this story printed So, he would be told to say that he's 110% certain that Manuel would play the final game of the season? Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 So, he would be told to say that he's 110% certain that Manuel would play the final game of the season? Well, I was talking to the inference. Do the specifics all add up neatly? Maybe not. But, Marrone might get a bogus update or three before going in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) I'm not trying to persuade you here, I'm just flat out telling you how it is. I know the guy who does his job for the Bears. My point is, in the big picture Berchtold doesn't matter. The other 2 are a problem and they have been for a very long time. I liken Berchtold to a pimple on the ass. It may bother you a bit, but you can live with it. The other 2 are cancer (IMO). Edit...if it helps Brandon to "save" Berchtold while cutting the other 2...then I'm all for it. Edited February 24, 2014 by Beerball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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