State of the Bills... from a new Steelers fan perspective

[Dr. Trooth]

Hi all. The voice of reality 'weighin in'. I know, I haven't posted in a long time. To explain, about a year ago, after being a Bills fan for a bizillion years and going through the last 13 or so years of futility... the absolute worst stretch of football in Bills history, I came to the realization that it's likely not going to change for quite some time, if ever... at least probably not in my lifetime. So, I viewed my allegiance as a Bills fan as if it were a marriage gone sour and it was time to do something about it. Of course, no marriage is ever perfect. It has its ups & downs and bumps in the road. But, something satisfies or fulfills you emotionally attached enough to keep you in it, whether it's actually love, friendship, kids, money, sex, stability, yadayada. In a lot of marriages gone sour, it sometimes starts with a separation and then gradually you get used to it, begin to move forward and sometimes find another old lady before you're even actually divorced. That's where I'm at. I finally had enough and bailed on the Bills after last season. By summer, I found a new old lady... the Steelers. After the first 5 weeks of the season, I was thinking WTF? Am I cursed? Why does it seem that I follow teams that suck? Well, I decided to hang in there with the Steelers and was rewarded. In the end, although the Steelers didn't make the playoffs, they were relevant right up until late in week 17, and looking forward, their prognosis with the Rooney's in charge is much better than the Bills. But enough of that. I just decided to get away because there wasn't much evidence to convince me the Bills would pull it together and be competitive. You might not like it, respect it, or care that I flipped. I'm not disparaging Bills fans, and won't, or am I pitting Bills fans against Steelers fans or any other team. Just sharing how I dealt with the Bills suckage.

 

So, now I'll get on the topic of the Bills. What's the problem? Trust me, it ain't Marrone or Hackett, or Crossman (what coach or OC is going to the playoffs with Manual, Tuel, and/or Lewis). As far as Marrone, I haven't seen a Bills coach shake up a roster during the season as much as he has, ever... maybe Saban. I actually think Marrone's continual in season shakeup is indicative of the true lack of talent that Buddy and Brandon tried to convince everyone that the Bills had. Marrone is doing the best he can with what he's been given (a lot of players that have never seen more than 7 NFL wins in a season and seem to be quite comfortable with that). He doesn't have much say in free agency or what they'll spend or how many draft picks they have, and maybe not a whole lot in who they draft. So, where I see the problem, looking at the past 14 or so years is twofold... it comes down to two common denominators...

 

1) the first common denominator is "Buffalo". The area has been in consistent economic decline since the mid sixties. There was a brief uptick in the mid to late 80's and then freefall. NFL teams aren't financially viable in that type of environment and free agents don't want to come there or want more money than their fair market value to do so. Most big cities in economic decline have turned it around... Pittsburg, St. Louis, Cincy, Cleveland, Baltimore were once in similar decline as Buffalo but found their way back. Buffalo is different. Turning Buffalo around would almost be akin to turning water into wine because it has to contend with Albany... the NYS political dysfunction and corruption machine. There are 19 million New Yorkers. 11 million of them live below the northern boundaries of Rockland and Putnam counties, roughly 400 miles from Buffalo. The other 8 million New Yorkers living north and west of that don't matter to the politicos and they don't give a ****. As long as they got NYS taxpayer money in their pocket, that's a cash cow for them. Sure, they might throw a bone or two or some candy to upstate once and a while, but absolutely no significant or long term measure to turn things around is ever going to happen. And, wait until the casino money starts rolling in if you don't think the corruption can get any worse. The NYS population is aging, retirees gradually moving out of upstate because they can't afford to live there, and the younger ones are moving out of state as well because there aren't any jobs... and loads of you transplanted WNYers on this board know exactly what I'm talking about. So, will the team move? Eventually, I believe it will. But, within the next 10 years, I don't see any venue that the Bills could move to and provide new ownership a significant ROI for what they'll need to have to pay for the team and make it competitive if the team is purchased in the next three to four years... and certainly not in LA where no one gives a rats a$$. You're looking at between $1.2 - $1.5 billion to buy this team... and then the expense of relocation at a time when taxpayers are fed up with opening their wallets to big profit centers that do nothing but continually suck money out of them? (PS. the $120M taxpayer money for the improvements at the Ralph was only political payback for the $5 billon Barclay Arena and Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn)

 

2) the second common denominator is Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon. We all know Ralph's age, and, who knows if he'll be around in 3 or 4 years. God will make that call. And, Brandon is nothing but an extension of Ralph. This crap about Brandon having no restrictions to run the franchise is exactly that, crap. Ralph Wilson is still the owner and the Bills will, and do, operate within the parameters he sets forth. Only things within those parameters are in play. Kind of like a deck of cards, there are still only 52 cards. Not 53, 54, 55... etc. , play em. Brandon, in particular, is a mystery man to me. He's in his 40's and top dog of an NFL franchise with one of the worst W/L records during his time on the Bills payroll. And, he probably will still be Pres. for at least a couple more years. After Ralph passes, what is Brandon's future? I mean, his legacy is one of failure in terms of W/L record. That has to work against him in the NFL or any other winning sports organization. I can't imagine him working for the new owner, whomever that may be. What other team owner is going to give him a shot at a position like he has now if the expectation is W's or even a moderately competitive team? I mean... he hasn't demonstrated he's had "W" success anywhere that I know of. So, basically what I'm saying... 1_ as long as Ralph is the owner, W's are a mirage, and 2_as long as Brandon is in charge, ditto That is not to say that if Brandon bolts to take a high level executive position at Walmart or other corp. that the next Bills pres. will be any different. Ralph is still holding the same deck of cards, and they are stacked against anyone that has a passion for the "W"... And, Whaley? If he's any good, why is he wasting his time with the Bills? He's in a no win situation. I don't understand why he would he allow himself to be put in that position at his relatively young age and risk his reputation and football future. I don't get it.

 

So, there ya have it, my take, for what it's worth. Now that I'm shacking with the Steelers I don't worry about the Bills, but just like 31 other teams, I keep an eye on em. However, I do feel bad for you guys. There's still a connection and I have nothing against you. I didn't flip because of you or anything you did. You definitely deserve a hell of a lot better, and, certainly the drafting of Manual must have been one hell of a roundhouse kick to your gut as a Bills fan. Unfortunately, you'll have to live with that pick for a couple of years before the next guy comes in. I wish you well, but for me, I'm looking forward to a big Steelers rebound in 2014.

[The Big Cat]

Welp.

 

See ya.

[YoloinOhio]

 

So, there ya have it, my take, for what it's worth. Now that I'm shacking with the Steelers I don't worry about the Bills, but just like 31 other teams, I keep an eye on em. However, I do feel bad for you guys. There's still a connection and I have nothing against you. I didn't flip because of you or anything you did. You definitely deserve a hell of a lot better, and, certainly the drafting of Manual must have been one hell of a roundhouse kick to your gut as a Bills fan. Unfortunately, you'll have to live with that pick for a couple of years before the next guy comes in. I wish you well, but for me, I'm looking forward to a big Steelers rebound in 2014.

Um... thanks? Edited January 19, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[uncle flap]

Dr. StrangeTrooth or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Steelers

 

Edited January 19, 2014 by uncle flap

[YoloinOhio]

Dr. Trooth or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Steelers

 

[uncle flap]

 

OP:

[Max997]

That's a lot of typing...hope you didn't do all that from ur phone

Edited January 19, 2014 by Max997

[cage]

1) the first common denominator is "Buffalo"...

 

Really? All that typing to start with that. So a bunch of men (coaches and players) from every part of the country that are hired and drafted onto this team can't play well because of the Western NY economy? That's silly. By that logic the team should be undefeated in Toronto. Would the team instantly contend for the SB if it was moved up there?

 

We attracted Free Agents just fine when the team was doing well. And Mario Williams last year when the team appeared on the upswing. Hockey players had no problem coming to Buffalo just after the start of the Pegula regime. Robyn Regier waved his no trade clause to come here and Christian Erhoff also signed long-term in Buffalo after getting traded here just a few days before free agency began. The NY Islanders tried the same trick with him the week before, but he wouldn't sign there

 

... so that's a pretty lame reason

Edited January 19, 2014 by cage

[transient]

Dr Trooth, you ignorant misnomer. My personality profile is not at issue here, any more than is your inability to achieve orgasm. The issue is the Bills. How can we expect to have the confidence of any football team when we stab one of our most faithful allies in the back. I suppose you'd like us to conduct our football fandom the way you conduct your private life, hopping from bed to bed with anyone that can do you some good. Then what do you have? An old, dried-out scuzz that no decent football team would want as a fan. Is that what you want for the Bills? It's too late for you, "Trooth", but our fanbase still has some dignity left, you hosebag!

 

But I suppose that sort of fashionable promiscuity means nothing to someone like you, Trooth, who hops from bed to bed with the frequency of a cheap ham radio.

[HamSandwhich]

Often time's, in a messy divorce, the two parties don't like each other. They remain sour toward each other and are often spew vitriol and hatred. No one's gonna miss a turncoat.

[bills1960]

Last time I checked, teams that draft well end up winning Super Bowls. And coincidently, when you're drafted by the Bills, you have to then play for the Bills. So who cares if Buffalo was a barren wasteland, they're under contract and they're professionals who, believe it or not, like to win.

[SmokinES3]

How does one switch teams? I can understand ceasing to follow the Bills and bowing out... But to become enthusiastic and excited watching another team succeed? It wouldn't be possible for me. The divorce analogy doesn't work. I think a Bills Super Bowl would far and away surpass the pleasure any vagina can supply. I loathe being born into this fanhood sometimes, but I wouldn't change it for the world. You're probably a lifelong quitter Trooth. Spare us your opinion.

 

Often time's, in a messy divorce, the two parties don't like each other. They remain sour toward each other and are often spew vitriol and hatred. No one's gonna miss a turncoat.

Indeed

[prissythecat]

Hi all. The voice of reality 'weighin in'. I know, I haven't posted in a long time. To explain, about a year ago, after being a Bills fan for a bizillion years and going through the last 13 or so years of futility... the absolute worst stretch of football in Bills history, I came to the realization that it's likely not going to change for quite some time, if ever... at least probably not in my lifetime. So, I viewed my allegiance as a Bills fan as if it were a marriage gone sour and it was time to do something about it. Of course, no marriage is ever perfect. It has its ups & downs and bumps in the road. But, something satisfies or fulfills you emotionally attached enough to keep you in it, whether it's actually love, friendship, kids, money, sex, stability, yadayada. In a lot of marriages gone sour, it sometimes starts with a separation and then gradually you get used to it, begin to move forward and sometimes find another old lady before you're even actually divorced. That's where I'm at. I finally had enough and bailed on the Bills after last season. By summer, I found a new old lady... the Steelers. After the first 5 weeks of the season, I was thinking WTF? Am I cursed? Why does it seem that I follow teams that suck? Well, I decided to hang in there with the Steelers and was rewarded. In the end, although the Steelers didn't make the playoffs, they were relevant right up until late in week 17, and looking forward, their prognosis with the Rooney's in charge is much better than the Bills. But enough of that. I just decided to get away because there wasn't much evidence to convince me the Bills would pull it together and be competitive. You might not like it, respect it, or care that I flipped. I'm not disparaging Bills fans, and won't, or am I pitting Bills fans against Steelers fans or any other team. Just sharing how I dealt with the Bills suckage.

 

So, now I'll get on the topic of the Bills. What's the problem? Trust me, it ain't Marrone or Hackett, or Crossman (what coach or OC is going to the playoffs with Manual, Tuel, and/or Lewis). As far as Marrone, I haven't seen a Bills coach shake up a roster during the season as much as he has, ever... maybe Saban. I actually think Marrone's continual in season shakeup is indicative of the true lack of talent that Buddy and Brandon tried to convince everyone that the Bills had. Marrone is doing the best he can with what he's been given (a lot of players that have never seen more than 7 NFL wins in a season and seem to be quite comfortable with that). He doesn't have much say in free agency or what they'll spend or how many draft picks they have, and maybe not a whole lot in who they draft. So, where I see the problem, looking at the past 14 or so years is twofold... it comes down to two common denominators...

 

1) the first common denominator is "Buffalo". The area has been in consistent economic decline since the mid sixties. There was a brief uptick in the mid to late 80's and then freefall. NFL teams aren't financially viable in that type of environment and free agents don't want to come there or want more money than their fair market value to do so. Most big cities in economic decline have turned it around... Pittsburg, St. Louis, Cincy, Cleveland, Baltimore were once in similar decline as Buffalo but found their way back. Buffalo is different. Turning Buffalo around would almost be akin to turning water into wine because it has to contend with Albany... the NYS political dysfunction and corruption machine. There are 19 million New Yorkers. 11 million of them live below the northern boundaries of Rockland and Putnam counties, roughly 400 miles from Buffalo. The other 8 million New Yorkers living north and west of that don't matter to the politicos and they don't give a ****. As long as they got NYS taxpayer money in their pocket, that's a cash cow for them. Sure, they might throw a bone or two or some candy to upstate once and a while, but absolutely no significant or long term measure to turn things around is ever going to happen. And, wait until the casino money starts rolling in if you don't think the corruption can get any worse. The NYS population is aging, retirees gradually moving out of upstate because they can't afford to live there, and the younger ones are moving out of state as well because there aren't any jobs... and loads of you transplanted WNYers on this board know exactly what I'm talking about. So, will the team move? Eventually, I believe it will. But, within the next 10 years, I don't see any venue that the Bills could move to and provide new ownership a significant ROI for what they'll need to have to pay for the team and make it competitive if the team is purchased in the next three to four years... and certainly not in LA where no one gives a rats a$$. You're looking at between $1.2 - $1.5 billion to buy this team... and then the expense of relocation at a time when taxpayers are fed up with opening their wallets to big profit centers that do nothing but continually suck money out of them? (PS. the $120M taxpayer money for the improvements at the Ralph was only political payback for the $5 billon Barclay Arena and Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn)

 

2) the second common denominator is Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon. We all know Ralph's age, and, who knows if he'll be around in 3 or 4 years. God will make that call. And, Brandon is nothing but an extension of Ralph. This crap about Brandon having no restrictions to run the franchise is exactly that, crap. Ralph Wilson is still the owner and the Bills will, and do, operate within the parameters he sets forth. Only things within those parameters are in play. Kind of like a deck of cards, there are still only 52 cards. Not 53, 54, 55... etc. , play em. Brandon, in particular, is a mystery man to me. He's in his 40's and top dog of an NFL franchise with one of the worst W/L records during his time on the Bills payroll. And, he probably will still be Pres. for at least a couple more years. After Ralph passes, what is Brandon's future? I mean, his legacy is one of failure in terms of W/L record. That has to work against him in the NFL or any other winning sports organization. I can't imagine him working for the new owner, whomever that may be. What other team owner is going to give him a shot at a position like he has now if the expectation is W's or even a moderately competitive team? I mean... he hasn't demonstrated he's had "W" success anywhere that I know of. So, basically what I'm saying... 1_ as long as Ralph is the owner, W's are a mirage, and 2_as long as Brandon is in charge, ditto That is not to say that if Brandon bolts to take a high level executive position at Walmart or other corp. that the next Bills pres. will be any different. Ralph is still holding the same deck of cards, and they are stacked against anyone that has a passion for the "W"... And, Whaley? If he's any good, why is he wasting his time with the Bills? He's in a no win situation. I don't understand why he would he allow himself to be put in that position at his relatively young age and risk his reputation and football future. I don't get it.

 

So, there ya have it, my take, for what it's worth. Now that I'm shacking with the Steelers I don't worry about the Bills, but just like 31 other teams, I keep an eye on em. However, I do feel bad for you guys. There's still a connection and I have nothing against you. I didn't flip because of you or anything you did. You definitely deserve a hell of a lot better, and, certainly the drafting of Manual must have been one hell of a roundhouse kick to your gut as a Bills fan. Unfortunately, you'll have to live with that pick for a couple of years before the next guy comes in. I wish you well, but for me, I'm looking forward to a big Steelers rebound in 2014.

 

 

Good luck cheering for the Steelers . But might have been better to pick the Bengals or Colts, who have developed a pretty good nucleus of players.

[first_and_ten]

Trooth...don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[CodeMonkey]

Good luck cheering for the Steelers . But might have been better to pick the Bengals or Colts, who have developed a pretty good nucleus of players.

100% agree. Why pick one with an aging QB when you have P. Manning JR. in Andrew Luck. Any why pick a team on its way down. If you wanted an aging QB, go with Denver or NE. The Stillers seem a stupid pick unless you live in Stiller country.

[3rdand12]

Glad you have made a full recovery Dr. and have no lingering symptoms . Colon cleansing can do wonders for a viewpoint .

Good luck and best wishes in your future endeavors !

: )

[Doug Flutie Band]

you are doing it all wrong dr trooth

 

here is what i do:

 

i ACCEPT that the bills stink and will continue to stink - they are a bottom tier franchise in the league and that is not debatable

 

you view them as the loveable losers and dont get delusional with playoff talk you just hope they win some close exciting games and maybe take a run at beating the patriots

 

then, you watch lots of other games, play fantasy football, and develop favorite teams and individual player around the league and watch them

 

for example, i love drew brees - i watch a lot of saints games and just love rooting for that guy. the seahawks are my 2nd favorite team and i am rooting for them hard this weekend.

 

teams i kinda like include:

 

saints

packers

seahawks

colts

broncos

 

teams i tend to root against include:

 

patriots

jets

dolphins

steelers

texans

cowboys

49ers

 

the bills arent like a bad marriage, they are like a bad FAMILY MEMBER. you cant divorce them, you just have to accept it and learn to live with it.

 

also

 

if you go from the bills to the steelers

 

you were NEVER a real bills fan

 

never.

[Pete]

 

 

you were NEVER a real bills fan

 

never.

Amen. No running back to root for Bills when we kick ass next year. A Bills fan is resilient and loyal. You are not cut from that cloth

[Chandler#81]

A turncoat troll. That's a 1st..

[zonabb]

Hi all. The voice of reality 'weighin in'. I know, I haven't posted in a long time. To explain, about a year ago, after being a Bills fan for a bizillion years and going through the last 13 or so years of futility... the absolute worst stretch of football in Bills history, I came to the realization that it's likely not going to change for quite some time, if ever... at least probably not in my lifetime. So, I viewed my allegiance as a Bills fan as if it were a marriage gone sour and it was time to do something about it. Of course, no marriage is ever perfect. It has its ups & downs and bumps in the road. But, something satisfies or fulfills you emotionally attached enough to keep you in it, whether it's actually love, friendship, kids, money, sex, stability, yadayada. In a lot of marriages gone sour, it sometimes starts with a separation and then gradually you get used to it, begin to move forward and sometimes find another old lady before you're even actually divorced. That's where I'm at. I finally had enough and bailed on the Bills after last season. By summer, I found a new old lady... the Steelers. After the first 5 weeks of the season, I was thinking WTF? Am I cursed? Why does it seem that I follow teams that suck? Well, I decided to hang in there with the Steelers and was rewarded. In the end, although the Steelers didn't make the playoffs, they were relevant right up until late in week 17, and looking forward, their prognosis with the Rooney's in charge is much better than the Bills. But enough of that. I just decided to get away because there wasn't much evidence to convince me the Bills would pull it together and be competitive. You might not like it, respect it, or care that I flipped. I'm not disparaging Bills fans, and won't, or am I pitting Bills fans against Steelers fans or any other team. Just sharing how I dealt with the Bills suckage.

 

So, now I'll get on the topic of the Bills. What's the problem? Trust me, it ain't Marrone or Hackett, or Crossman (what coach or OC is going to the playoffs with Manual, Tuel, and/or Lewis). As far as Marrone, I haven't seen a Bills coach shake up a roster during the season as much as he has, ever... maybe Saban. I actually think Marrone's continual in season shakeup is indicative of the true lack of talent that Buddy and Brandon tried to convince everyone that the Bills had. Marrone is doing the best he can with what he's been given (a lot of players that have never seen more than 7 NFL wins in a season and seem to be quite comfortable with that). He doesn't have much say in free agency or what they'll spend or how many draft picks they have, and maybe not a whole lot in who they draft. So, where I see the problem, looking at the past 14 or so years is twofold... it comes down to two common denominators...

 

1) the first common denominator is "Buffalo". The area has been in consistent economic decline since the mid sixties. There was a brief uptick in the mid to late 80's and then freefall. NFL teams aren't financially viable in that type of environment and free agents don't want to come there or want more money than their fair market value to do so. Most big cities in economic decline have turned it around... Pittsburg, St. Louis, Cincy, Cleveland, Baltimore were once in similar decline as Buffalo but found their way back. Buffalo is different. Turning Buffalo around would almost be akin to turning water into wine because it has to contend with Albany... the NYS political dysfunction and corruption machine. There are 19 million New Yorkers. 11 million of them live below the northern boundaries of Rockland and Putnam counties, roughly 400 miles from Buffalo. The other 8 million New Yorkers living north and west of that don't matter to the politicos and they don't give a ****. As long as they got NYS taxpayer money in their pocket, that's a cash cow for them. Sure, they might throw a bone or two or some candy to upstate once and a while, but absolutely no significant or long term measure to turn things around is ever going to happen. And, wait until the casino money starts rolling in if you don't think the corruption can get any worse. The NYS population is aging, retirees gradually moving out of upstate because they can't afford to live there, and the younger ones are moving out of state as well because there aren't any jobs... and loads of you transplanted WNYers on this board know exactly what I'm talking about. So, will the team move? Eventually, I believe it will. But, within the next 10 years, I don't see any venue that the Bills could move to and provide new ownership a significant ROI for what they'll need to have to pay for the team and make it competitive if the team is purchased in the next three to four years... and certainly not in LA where no one gives a rats a$$. You're looking at between $1.2 - $1.5 billion to buy this team... and then the expense of relocation at a time when taxpayers are fed up with opening their wallets to big profit centers that do nothing but continually suck money out of them? (PS. the $120M taxpayer money for the improvements at the Ralph was only political payback for the $5 billon Barclay Arena and Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn)

 

2) the second common denominator is Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon. We all know Ralph's age, and, who knows if he'll be around in 3 or 4 years. God will make that call. And, Brandon is nothing but an extension of Ralph. This crap about Brandon having no restrictions to run the franchise is exactly that, crap. Ralph Wilson is still the owner and the Bills will, and do, operate within the parameters he sets forth. Only things within those parameters are in play. Kind of like a deck of cards, there are still only 52 cards. Not 53, 54, 55... etc. , play em. Brandon, in particular, is a mystery man to me. He's in his 40's and top dog of an NFL franchise with one of the worst W/L records during his time on the Bills payroll. And, he probably will still be Pres. for at least a couple more years. After Ralph passes, what is Brandon's future? I mean, his legacy is one of failure in terms of W/L record. That has to work against him in the NFL or any other winning sports organization. I can't imagine him working for the new owner, whomever that may be. What other team owner is going to give him a shot at a position like he has now if the expectation is W's or even a moderately competitive team? I mean... he hasn't demonstrated he's had "W" success anywhere that I know of. So, basically what I'm saying... 1_ as long as Ralph is the owner, W's are a mirage, and 2_as long as Brandon is in charge, ditto That is not to say that if Brandon bolts to take a high level executive position at Walmart or other corp. that the next Bills pres. will be any different. Ralph is still holding the same deck of cards, and they are stacked against anyone that has a passion for the "W"... And, Whaley? If he's any good, why is he wasting his time with the Bills? He's in a no win situation. I don't understand why he would he allow himself to be put in that position at his relatively young age and risk his reputation and football future. I don't get it.

 

So, there ya have it, my take, for what it's worth. Now that I'm shacking with the Steelers I don't worry about the Bills, but just like 31 other teams, I keep an eye on em. However, I do feel bad for you guys. There's still a connection and I have nothing against you. I didn't flip because of you or anything you did. You definitely deserve a hell of a lot better, and, certainly the drafting of Manual must have been one hell of a roundhouse kick to your gut as a Bills fan. Unfortunately, you'll have to live with that pick for a couple of years before the next guy comes in. I wish you well, but for me, I'm looking forward to a big Steelers rebound in 2014.

 

First, as a lifelong Bills fan, I actually understand the need to get something positive from your NFL experience and don't actually hold that against you. That's your right and I think, if you truly follow through and ignore them, AND the Steelers actually continue to win, you'll be better mentally for it.

 

However, you couldn't be more misininformed on the decline of Buffalo relative to other cities and the cities you have mentioned. I have spent the better part of the last 4-5 years focusing entirely on "decline" and you are nothing more than the average guy on the street when it comes to knowledge of decline. You read the paper occasionally, you see some vacancy, you complain about taxes, you mumble about bad governance (trust me, much of continued problem is self-inflicted) but you now zero actual facts. So many things you mention are flat out wrong... like the fact that NYC doesn't throw us an occasional bone... without them much upstate would struggle mightily. The economic production and revenue generated in the greater NYC area dwarfs upstate and it subsidized US not the other way around. You need a geography less. There is a difference between "city" and region. You use them interchangeably to make your flawed argument. Looking at cities alone (the legal entity just like the city of Buffalo) every single city you mentioned.... Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Cincy and Baltimore lost population form 2000 to 2010. Cleveland in fact lost 17%! These "cities" are very much still in their decade over decade decline. Their regions are a different story, some with some minor growth, some with steadier growth. But by and large, the cities have major problems that impact the region, but I don't have time for an urban geography lesson to explain that. They all to a large extent ahev major problems with intra-regional competition that is good for single places but bad for the whole. The fragmented regionalism that holds us back holds them back... you can move forward a singular economic entity in the global economy, which regions, when its constituted with self-interested communities... think Amherst's tax breaks that steal business from other communities... that doesn't make us better.

 

But keep on thinking somehow we're alone, that all other declining former manufacturing and industrial cities have figured it out.

Edited January 19, 2014 by zonabb

[johnnychemo]

Tl,dr: Ralph is cheap.

[Saint Doug]

the bills arent like a bad marriage, they are like a bad FAMILY MEMBER. you cant divorce them, you just have to accept it and learn to live with it.

 

also

 

if you go from the bills to the steelers

 

you were NEVER a real bills fan

 

never.

 

You know, I may not really agree with Trooth, but what lies behind a fan's need to suffer? The Bills aren't a family member. They don't know you and don't really care about you. They really aren't your team. All they care about is collecting a substantial fee from people.

 

So what really lies behind a fans' need to suffer for a team? Do they feel they owe them something (isn't the ticket price good enough?). I could see if the Bills were a charitable organization and were providing a necessary service for those in need. I could back that, for good or bad. But, they aren't. They are charging fans a good chunk of change when most can barely afford it.

 

Again, the Bills aren't a family member, so why do people feel they owe them unconditional love? Not necessarily directed at you, but is it because they fill some sort of hole/need in people's lives?

[sodbuster]

You spelled "I'm a cheap fan whore" wrong.

[Dr. Fong]

I find cowardice such as yours detestable. There's nothing more despicable than a turncoat. If the Bills ever do turn things around I hope you stick by your cowardly decision and don't come running back to being a Bills fan. Let all of those championships, that meant absolutely nothing to you, keep you company.

[Bronc24]

I live in western Canada and have no connection to Buffalo, so I cannot comment on its economic state. I find it hard to believe that has anything to do with a winning football team.

 

It would be easy to start cheering for another team if I chose to do so. However, I think it is some kind of man code that you don't switch teams. I have cheered for the Bills since 1979. That's not changing. That doesn't deserve any accolades....it's what guys do.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Why in the world did moderators move this to PPP? So that people can **** all over a the OP without fear of being moderated?

 

/golfclap

 

Well, atleast this might bring us some fresh meat to **** all over in our other threads down here in the basement.

[JoeF]

If the BIlls lose some weight, start working out and get a little buff, start buying see through stuff at Lululemon (poor analogy for making the playoffs)....you gonna come back? You're always welcome...the Bills tent is a large one....give us your tired, your hungry, those that lack the extreme persistence it takes to hang in there...

Edited January 19, 2014 by JoeF

[Kevin]

So as a bandwagon fan you chose the Steelers? I would've chosen the Seahawks, Niners, Or Panthers. But you chose the Steelers. Good luck with your bounce back 2014.

[purple haze]

Dr. Tooth, listing your reasons for turning coat are meaningless here. You aren’t convincing any true fan that they should follow your “lead.” Although I understand the frustration that causes thoughts of bailing, I do not understand the actual follow-through. Thinking and doing are two different things. I have thought about it too out of anger. But I would never actually bail on the Bills. I was born into being a Bills fan. And a true fan would not just bail out and claim allegiance to another team. You actual feel about the Steelers how you felt about the Bills? Really?

 

What goes around comes around. The Bills will be relevant again and I will be there to enjoy the sweetness of that after suffering through these bitter years. This is a taste you will not know because you ran out and abandoned the team you supposedly loved.

 

So, be gone and good luck. Just make sure you don’t come running back when times get better; no need to come here with congratulations; no need to explain why you had to do what you had to do, but really didn’t want to do because the Bills/WNY made you do it. You would simply be one in a long line of bandwagon riders, no better than those thousands of minions claiming the Patriots after Belichick and Brady led them to their post-apocolypse recovery.

 

Good riddance to you, Dr. Benedict Arnold Tooth.

Edited January 19, 2014 by purple haze

[Rob's House]

Dr Trooth, you ignorant misnomer. My personality profile is not at issue here, any more than is your inability to achieve orgasm. The issue is the Bills. How can we expect to have the confidence of any football team when we stab one of our most faithful allies in the back. I suppose you'd like us to conduct our football fandom the way you conduct your private life, hopping from bed to bed with anyone that can do you some good. Then what do you have? An old, dried-out scuzz that no decent football team would want as a fan. Is that what you want for the Bills? It's too late for you, "Trooth", but our fanbase still has some dignity left, you hosebag!

 

But I suppose that sort of fashionable promiscuity means nothing to someone like you, Trooth, who hops from bed to bed with the frequency of a cheap ham radio.

 

What're you talking about? I'm great at achieving orgasm; it's my wife who can't do it. Oh, you weren't talking to me. Sorry, nevermind.

 

I live in western Canada and have no connection to Buffalo, so I cannot comment on its economic state. I find it hard to believe that has anything to do with a winning football team.

 

It would be easy to start cheering for another team if I chose to do so. However, I think it is some kind of man code that you don't switch teams. I have cheered for the Bills since 1979. That's not changing. That doesn't deserve any accolades....it's what guys do.

 

You're Canadian so your opinion doesn't matter anyway.

[Ludwig van]

Why don't you change your identity and move to communist China while your at it pal...

I AM A BILLS FAN TIL DEATH DO US PART...

[Rob's House]

Why is this thread in PPP?

[SmokinES3]

Why is this thread in PPP?

So the troll can be **** on in an unmoderated environment I would guess.

Edited January 19, 2014 by SmokinES3

[meazza]

Why is this thread in PPP?

 

Don't ever question the mods.

[Tiberius]

Can this thread just be blown up or set on fire or something?

[HamSandwhich]

I know he's checking back, shaking in his boots to respond. Lol

[littlelouie]

Dr Trooth - God has blessed you by getting you out of Buffalow. I hope you gave the Lord thanks and praise.

Anyway what I am here to tell you is even though the Steelers stink right now, ALL TEAMS rebuild faster than the BuffaLOW Bills. The BIlls have been rebuilding since Jim Kelly still had HAIR!!! Maybe you're old enough to remember how long ago that was. Well the bottom line is the Bills and the Steelers both STANK, but at least you can be assured the Steelers will become a contender a lot sooner than the Bills

Edited January 19, 2014 by littlelouie

[LB3]

Good riddance.

[Azalin]

if you can simply choose another team to root for, then you weren't much of a fan in the first place.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Hi all. The voice of reality 'weighin in'. I know, I haven't posted in a long time. To explain, about a year ago, after being a Bills fan for a bizillion years and going through the last 13 or so years of futility... the absolute worst stretch of football in Bills history, I came to the realization that it's likely not going to change for quite some time, if ever... at least probably not in my lifetime. So, I viewed my allegiance as a Bills fan as if it were a marriage gone sour and it was time to do something about it. Of course, no marriage is ever perfect. It has its ups & downs and bumps in the road. But, something satisfies or fulfills you emotionally attached enough to keep you in it, whether it's actually love, friendship, kids, money, sex, stability, yadayada. In a lot of marriages gone sour, it sometimes starts with a separation and then gradually you get used to it, begin to move forward and sometimes find another old lady before you're even actually divorced. That's where I'm at. I finally had enough and bailed on the Bills after last season. By summer, I found a new old lady... the Steelers. After the first 5 weeks of the season, I was thinking WTF? Am I cursed? Why does it seem that I follow teams that suck? Well, I decided to hang in there with the Steelers and was rewarded. In the end, although the Steelers didn't make the playoffs, they were relevant right up until late in week 17, and looking forward, their prognosis with the Rooney's in charge is much better than the Bills. But enough of that. I just decided to get away because there wasn't much evidence to convince me the Bills would pull it together and be competitive. You might not like it, respect it, or care that I flipped. I'm not disparaging Bills fans, and won't, or am I pitting Bills fans against Steelers fans or any other team. Just sharing how I dealt with the Bills suckage.

 

So, now I'll get on the topic of the Bills. What's the problem? Trust me, it ain't Marrone or Hackett, or Crossman (what coach or OC is going to the playoffs with Manual, Tuel, and/or Lewis). As far as Marrone, I haven't seen a Bills coach shake up a roster during the season as much as he has, ever... maybe Saban. I actually think Marrone's continual in season shakeup is indicative of the true lack of talent that Buddy and Brandon tried to convince everyone that the Bills had. Marrone is doing the best he can with what he's been given (a lot of players that have never seen more than 7 NFL wins in a season and seem to be quite comfortable with that). He doesn't have much say in free agency or what they'll spend or how many draft picks they have, and maybe not a whole lot in who they draft. So, where I see the problem, looking at the past 14 or so years is twofold... it comes down to two common denominators...

 

1) the first common denominator is "Buffalo". The area has been in consistent economic decline since the mid sixties. There was a brief uptick in the mid to late 80's and then freefall. NFL teams aren't financially viable in that type of environment and free agents don't want to come there or want more money than their fair market value to do so. Most big cities in economic decline have turned it around... Pittsburg, St. Louis, Cincy, Cleveland, Baltimore were once in similar decline as Buffalo but found their way back. Buffalo is different. Turning Buffalo around would almost be akin to turning water into wine because it has to contend with Albany... the NYS political dysfunction and corruption machine. There are 19 million New Yorkers. 11 million of them live below the northern boundaries of Rockland and Putnam counties, roughly 400 miles from Buffalo. The other 8 million New Yorkers living north and west of that don't matter to the politicos and they don't give a ****. As long as they got NYS taxpayer money in their pocket, that's a cash cow for them. Sure, they might throw a bone or two or some candy to upstate once and a while, but absolutely no significant or long term measure to turn things around is ever going to happen. And, wait until the casino money starts rolling in if you don't think the corruption can get any worse. The NYS population is aging, retirees gradually moving out of upstate because they can't afford to live there, and the younger ones are moving out of state as well because there aren't any jobs... and loads of you transplanted WNYers on this board know exactly what I'm talking about. So, will the team move? Eventually, I believe it will. But, within the next 10 years, I don't see any venue that the Bills could move to and provide new ownership a significant ROI for what they'll need to have to pay for the team and make it competitive if the team is purchased in the next three to four years... and certainly not in LA where no one gives a rats a$$. You're looking at between $1.2 - $1.5 billion to buy this team... and then the expense of relocation at a time when taxpayers are fed up with opening their wallets to big profit centers that do nothing but continually suck money out of them? (PS. the $120M taxpayer money for the improvements at the Ralph was only political payback for the $5 billon Barclay Arena and Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn)

 

2) the second common denominator is Ralph Wilson and Russ Brandon. We all know Ralph's age, and, who knows if he'll be around in 3 or 4 years. God will make that call. And, Brandon is nothing but an extension of Ralph. This crap about Brandon having no restrictions to run the franchise is exactly that, crap. Ralph Wilson is still the owner and the Bills will, and do, operate within the parameters he sets forth. Only things within those parameters are in play. Kind of like a deck of cards, there are still only 52 cards. Not 53, 54, 55... etc. , play em. Brandon, in particular, is a mystery man to me. He's in his 40's and top dog of an NFL franchise with one of the worst W/L records during his time on the Bills payroll. And, he probably will still be Pres. for at least a couple more years. After Ralph passes, what is Brandon's future? I mean, his legacy is one of failure in terms of W/L record. That has to work against him in the NFL or any other winning sports organization. I can't imagine him working for the new owner, whomever that may be. What other team owner is going to give him a shot at a position like he has now if the expectation is W's or even a moderately competitive team? I mean... he hasn't demonstrated he's had "W" success anywhere that I know of. So, basically what I'm saying... 1_ as long as Ralph is the owner, W's are a mirage, and 2_as long as Brandon is in charge, ditto That is not to say that if Brandon bolts to take a high level executive position at Walmart or other corp. that the next Bills pres. will be any different. Ralph is still holding the same deck of cards, and they are stacked against anyone that has a passion for the "W"... And, Whaley? If he's any good, why is he wasting his time with the Bills? He's in a no win situation. I don't understand why he would he allow himself to be put in that position at his relatively young age and risk his reputation and football future. I don't get it.

 

So, there ya have it, my take, for what it's worth. Now that I'm shacking with the Steelers I don't worry about the Bills, but just like 31 other teams, I keep an eye on em. However, I do feel bad for you guys. There's still a connection and I have nothing against you. I didn't flip because of you or anything you did. You definitely deserve a hell of a lot better, and, certainly the drafting of Manual must have been one hell of a roundhouse kick to your gut as a Bills fan. Unfortunately, you'll have to live with that pick for a couple of years before the next guy comes in. I wish you well, but for me, I'm looking forward to a big Steelers rebound in 2014.

 

Your first point is totally irrelevant, the city has nothing to do with drafting/finding players.

 

definitely some truth in second, if we continually stay under the cap we will know there are restrictions (or Russ is cheap).

 

What are you going to do when your ex is hot and sexy again?