POLL: Top 3 Reasons for the Loss

[I_want_2_BILL_Lieve]

1.) !@#$ Tom Brady.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure you're asking. But it works out such that the Pats* would have taken over at 4:05 rather than 4:31.

 

I see what I did here. You're right. Let me restate my case. IIRC Fred was gaining about 4 yards a carry late in the game. Again as I recall the first 2 downs were runs making it 3rd and 2 or maybe 3. Each of those runs came with about 20 - 25 seconds left on the play clock. Had we let the clock work down on each of the first 2 downs that would have been at least another 40 seconds. The 3rd down incomplete pass stopped the clock. Another run - even if it came up short - would have worked another 20 - 25 seconds off the clock. Best case scenario, first down. Next best, we bleed off another minute off the clock, then punt. Worst case, they have to burn some timeouts, but with the same amount of time left. I think one minute less, or no timeouts changes the dynamics.

 

One more thing for the good of the order. Spillers fumble and our fumble return for the TD are a wash. Stuff happens.

Edited September 9, 2013 by I_want_2_BILL_Lieve

[Captain Caveman]

Yeah I do. It would be 26 seconds per play right.

So instead of having 4 minutes, Brady would have had 2 1/2. So we wouldn't have had as much chance to use out timeouts at the end. Big deal.

[K-9]

I see what I did here. You're right. Let me restate my case. IIRC Fred was gaining about 4 yards a carry late in the game. Again as I recall the first 2 downs were runs making it 3rd and 2 or maybe 3. Each of those runs came with about 20 - 25 seconds left on the play clock. Had we let the clock work down on each of the first 2 downs that would have been at least another 40 seconds. The 3rd down incomplete pass stopped the clock. Another run - even if it came up short - would have worked another 20 - 25 seconds off the clock. Best case scenario, first down. Next best, we bleed off another minute off the clock, then punt. Worst case, they have to burn some timeouts, but with the same amount of time left. I think one minute less, or no timeouts changes the dynamics.

 

One more thing for the good of the order. Spillers fumble and our fumble return for the TD are a wash. Stuff happens.

 

1st down - run by Spiller

2nd down - incomplete pass, clock stopped.

3rd down - pass to Chandler

4th down - punt with 3 seconds left on play clock.

 

They had ONE opportunity to run more clock on that series and that was after the Spiller run, when they snapped it with 26 seconds left on the play clock. If they had run it on 2nd down vs. the incomplete pass, that would have given them another opportunity but it's a moot point.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[3rdand12]

Putting Spiller AND Jackson in the backfield would force defenses honor the run and open up play actions. Why not?

Hackett has NO intention of showing his hand yet. We are rebuilding. Patriots was a schemed preseason game.

Let s watch how they progress from game to game and if EJ gets protection and comfy.

Bill's plan from top to bottom was stop spiller then slow down the run. We knew it they knew it. It was exercise for the things to come.

But BB the spiller jackson things ? hell yes. great threat indeed

 

Pats tested Alonso for 91 plays. He passed the trial by fire. The kid played everysnap, not bad for the rookie linebacker whom BB had targeted generally speaking. if he improves so will the Bills. and he will..

Edited September 9, 2013 by 3rdand12

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I would have liked to have seen -

 

Inability to stop the Putz on 3rd Downs

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I think the Bills defense's inability to get off the field on third down hurt more than the Bills offense's inability to convert.

 

I think the two are to some extent related. In a hurry-up, when you don't convert, the D barely gets to the sideline before they're back out there

 

Hackett has NO intention of showing his hand yet. We are rebuilding. Patriots was a schemed preseason game.

 

Other stuff you say makes some sense. I'm sorry, this is just wrong. That was a game. Opening day game.

 

No coach worth his salt would see it as you say.

[Rockinon]

The offense as a whole was off. There were just too many 3 and outs. Execution was not there but for a lot of reasons. Penalties killed drives. CJ could not find a seam. Turnovers lead to 14 easy points for the Patriots. EJ threw some floaters. Receivers let some get away. Coach is too conservative when it's 4th and short(I am not yet in the camp that we should have tried to eat up more clock at the end of the game. Execution will fix the the clock management problem by put us in a more comfortable lead before attempting to run out the clock).

 

A lot of things that are very fixable. The defense was playing with their hearts on their sleeve and believe the offense was too, but there were some boneheaded mistakes in this game. If this offense really starts clicking, and we get Byrd and Gilmore back, this is going to be one hell of a team. Overall, I came away from this game feeling like our team was more dominant, but the mistakes need to be addressed and fixed. I was proud of my team but I think they still have some work to do. This isn't a sprint. It's a marathon. Not giving them a pass, but I'm not going to call this the same old Bills...not by a long shot.

[DC Tom]

Where's "The Patriots scored more points?"

[The Big Cat]

I would have liked to have seen -

 

Inability to stop the Putz on 3rd Downs

 

Up until the last drive they did. 9/18.

 

Pats* were 11/20 on the day.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Given that NE was selling out to stop CJ, I would like to have seen both backs on the field, CJ split wide more, Freddy getting the ball more, and a little more downfield look. There were more of those plays there and two of them were called back on penalties.

 

Penalties and turnovers cost you games without question, though. When you lose, it's usually because you couldn't overcome those mistakes.

[thewildrabbit]

The Patriots D was keying on Spiller and stopping him cold, and yet the Bills just kept running him.

 

On the 3rd series or so, the first play the Bills went shotgun spread with 4 wide and Spiller the single back. Looking like a passing play on first down, and they handed off to CJ and he gained 8 yards. (The same type of play that Gailey used to run last year with great success)Then the Bills switched up formations and didn't run that play again, dunno why.

 

Bottom line... that the Bills couldn't control the LoS or the clock, and Spiller was held to a paltry 2.4 YPC avg, 41 yards on 17 carries. Run blocking didn't open holes for Spiller

[vincec]

How about the inability to STOP third downs. Pats seemed to convert them at will.

[bowery4]

Where's "The Patriots scored more points?"

This^

But lack of 3rd down conversions, penalties and turnovers, caused us not to score more.

[uncle flap]

I know no one here likes tj graham but what about when he roasted his man and was wide open for a TD (or at the very least a first and goal) and EJ threw it about three yards out of bounds?

 

That one play had the potential to change the game more than any other missed opportunity or mistake.

 

But choosing any one of those reasons doesn't make any sense. It's like a choose your own adventure book. If Spiller balls out, or they don't commit all those penalties, or Stevie makes the catch, etc., does that automatically mean the Bills win?

 

No, it just creates a different set of circumstances. Maybe Brady makes an even more incredible comeback. Let's say Stevie makes that catch. Maybe Manuel makes a rookie mistake. Maybe CJ fumbles again. Maybe they run out the clock, maybe not.

 

Overall, the D played great. But their inability to make a clutch stop on the final drive had more of an impact than any other factor. Despite all the "reasons" listed, the Bills were in a position to win until about a minute left.

 

So let's not harp on all these negatives and instead focus on the fact despite their shortcomings and miscues, the Bills had the pats on the ropes. I'm not big on moral victories, and a loss is a loss, but yesterday's performance was a hell of a lot better than the drubbings the Bills have suffered the past few years.

 

 

 

[MDyl7993]

Let's face it. In the end the experienced coach did what his experience told him to do. Brady and team were sub par and we exceeded all expectations. We will learn from this. Patriots wll not. They were totally exposed in the Super Bowl and their decline is near.

[MDH]

I see what I did here. You're right. Let me restate my case. IIRC Fred was gaining about 4 yards a carry late in the game. Again as I recall the first 2 downs were runs making it 3rd and 2 or maybe 3. Each of those runs came with about 20 - 25 seconds left on the play clock. Had we let the clock work down on each of the first 2 downs that would have been at least another 40 seconds. The 3rd down incomplete pass stopped the clock. Another run - even if it came up short - would have worked another 20 - 25 seconds off the clock. Best case scenario, first down. Next best, we bleed off another minute off the clock, then punt. Worst case, they have to burn some timeouts, but with the same amount of time left. I think one minute less, or no timeouts changes the dynamics.

 

One more thing for the good of the order. Spillers fumble and our fumble return for the TD are a wash. Stuff happens.

 

You don't try and drain the clock with 5 minutes left in a 1 point game. You try to pick up first downs which means you have to throw the ball. I agree they should have nixed the hurry-up but the team would be getting even more flack if they just ran three times and punted.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Pick three!

 

had to go with 4

[Prickly Pete]

I know no one here likes tj graham but what about when he roasted his man and was wide open for a TD (or at the very least a first and goal) and EJ threw it about three yards out of bounds?

 

That one play had the potential to change the game more than any other missed opportunity or mistake.

 

But choosing any one of those reasons doesn't make any sense. It's like a choose your own adventure book. If Spiller balls out, or they don't commit all those penalties, or Stevie makes the catch, etc., does that automatically mean the Bills win?

 

No, it just creates a different set of circumstances. Maybe Brady makes an even more incredible comeback. Let's say Stevie makes that catch. Maybe Manuel makes a rookie mistake. Maybe CJ fumbles again. Maybe they run out the clock, maybe not.

 

Overall, the D played great. But their inability to make a clutch stop on the final drive had more of an impact than any other factor. Despite all the "reasons" listed, the Bills were in a position to win until about a minute left.

 

So let's not harp on all these negatives and instead focus on the fact despite their shortcomings and miscues, the Bills had the pats on the ropes. I'm not big on moral victories, and a loss is a loss, but yesterday's performance was a hell of a lot better than the drubbings the Bills have suffered the past few years.

 

Gee thanks, Captain Obvious!

 

You are no fun.

 

What, next are you gonna mention that they started a a rookie QB that didn't even have a complete preseason, and that most here didn't even give the Bills a chance to compete in this game?

 

Or are you gonna bring up that even the veterans were playing completely new offensive and defensive schemes? Or that Marrone was making his debut against the best coach in the game for the last decade?

 

No, you have to bring up obvious, positive points, and undercut all the fun for the negative creeps that hang out on this board.

 

I'm gonna talk to the mods about banning you.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[Prickly Pete]

Let's face it. In the end the experienced coach did what his experience told him to do. Brady and team were sub par and we exceeded all expectations. We will learn from this. Patriots wll not. They were totally exposed in the Super Bowl and their decline is near.

 

I agree. I think the Bills made an impression on the Pats, and have put a little apprehension in their minds. I think the rest of the league (especially this division) saw some chinks in the armor too.

 

The Bills got some nice hits on Brady too. I think that will help going into the next Pats/Bills matchup. The Bills are no longer intimidated by the Pats.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[CSBill]

I place a lot of blame on the "offensive" play calling. For all the hype, it really was very vanilla. Some of that was protecting Manuel, rarely were they in anymore than a three receiver set with max protection, and it sure looked like they kept calling the same running play the entire game--i.e., no read option. Again, was this to protect Manuel's knee?

 

Take note, in the few times the ball was targeted down the field, it worked = Touchdowns.

 

However, i think one BIG factor that has not been mentioned much, was starting field position. How many drives did the Bills start inside their own 20?

[Peace Frog]

Penaties, turnovers, and not converting on 3rd down.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Pick three!

 

Sorry, I only picked one before I knew I could pick three! I picked EJ being handcuffed. As far as I'm concerned it is incredible to think that against a poor pass defense EJ threw only 27 passes.

 

I have absolutely no problems with the no huddle. What I do have a problem with is playing it safe with the no huddle out of fear of Brady. Of course you run the ball sometimes, but did anyone on the coaching staff really think that, of all things, NE's front 7 had gotten worse since last season and was worth exploiting?

Edited September 10, 2013 by dollars 2 donuts

[uncle flap]

Gee thanks, Captain Obvious!

 

You are no fun.

 

What, next are you gonna mention that they started a a rookie QB that didn't even have a complete preseason, and that most here didn't even give the Bills a chance to compete in this game?

 

Or are you gonna bring up that even the veterans were playing completely new offensive and defensive schemes? Or that Marrone was making his debut against the best coach in the game for the last decade?

 

No, you have to bring up obvious, positive points, and undercut all the fun for the negative creeps that hang out on this board.

 

I'm gonna talk to the mods about banning you.

 

 

My mistake!

[JohnnyBuffalo]

Penalties by far number one. Too many self inflicted problems that cost conversions and ball control. CJ being shut down, but not just on CJ's shoulders...this is on the plays designed to get him the ball and the execution of those plays and lastly he looked like he was forcing too much. Lastly and pretty much always a theme third down conversions. The only way to have a stout D stay stout an entire game is to have them not play 1.5 games each outing. You give the opposition the chance to run the most offensive plays of the weekend....guess what your D will break down in key late game drives. Offense needs to convert and stay on the field....even more so with hurry up!

 

Ok I am off the soap box, but man I need to vent!

[The Wiz]

Again. Break it down. It comes out to 26 seconds.

 

That's if you want to argue facts alone.

 

Rather, what you're supporting is a play-not-to-lose strategy, at home, week one, against a division rival. No thanks.

Actually I'm supporting a play-to-win strategy like every other team does late in the 4th qtr with a slim lead. Keep the ball, kill the clock, convert 3rd downs.

[chris heff]

Penalties, turnovers,and the inability to convert third downs. In that order. How many drives were killed by penalties? You can't give Brady a short field. You can't give Brady more possessions.

[DallasBillsFan1]

Also, 3 and Outs, too many of them (which I guess is third down conversions)

[Orton's Arm]

I'm surprised by the lack of Manuel being held back votes

 

This is a passing league, let your QB do his job

 

We're talking about a rookie QB in his very first start, going up against a Belichick defense. Manuel had also missed significant practice time due to an injury. And it's not as though Manuel ran the world's most complex offense in college.

 

The coaches made the decision to keep the offense simple--to keep the training wheels on. Maybe that was the wrong call. But they know a lot more about Manuel and his development than I do. If he wasn't ready for something more complex--and he may well not have been--then keeping the training wheels on probably gave the team its best possible chance to win.

 

If you want to fault some aspect of the coaching, start with the coaching staff's failure to play to Spiller's strengths, or put him in a position to succeed.

[Maury Ballstein]

Sj drop/Goodwin fumble (demote for Easley please Goodwin and graham)/spiller fumble

 

 

 

 

[Cash]

I picked Inability to convert 3rd downs and Penalties, and I'm writing in for Inability to stop the run as my #3. Shane Vereen is the only RB in the league with a 100-yard performance, and he didn't even start. Apparently Marrone made an excuse in the postgame press conference that we "held" the Patriots to 4.5 yards a carry, as though that's something to be proud of. Not quite as bad as Pos saying "we imposed our will" after giving up 300 yards on the ground (to the Jets, I think?), but still not what I want to hear.

 

Actually I'm supporting a play-to-win strategy like every other team does late in the 4th qtr with a slim lead. Keep the ball, kill the clock, convert 3rd downs.

 

Honest question: do you think the offense would have converted additional 3rd downs by playing slow? Because I don't. The problem, to me, was just bad offense, not fast offense. I did vote for 3rd-down conversions up top, but in fairness, a lot of those were 3rd and long after 2 terrible plays. That's not so much "Inability to convert 3rd downs" as it is "Bad offense". Now, if slowing things down would have improved the offense, then I'm all for it, but I don't buy it at face value that huddling up will gain us extra yards.

[timba]

I went with: Inability to convert 3rd downs, Penalties, and Turnovers.

 

I believe untimely penalties and drops were the largest causes of this loss. I counted 5 first downs nullified due to those reasons. That is significant, especially when seeing the Bills converted 15 total first downs in the game. Of course, turning the ball over in your own end is also a fast way to give a game away.

[The Wiz]

Honest question: do you think the offense would have converted additional 3rd downs by playing slow? Because I don't. The problem, to me, was just bad offense, not fast offense. I did vote for 3rd-down conversions up top, but in fairness, a lot of those were 3rd and long after 2 terrible plays. That's not so much "Inability to convert 3rd downs" as it is "Bad offense". Now, if slowing things down would have improved the offense, then I'm all for it, but I don't buy it at face value that huddling up will gain us extra yards.

No I don't think they would have gained more yards by huddling up. As I said before that comment, you give Brady the ball with a minute left and he will find a way to win if they are within a TD. I agree with you it was more bad offense than their 3rd down % and poorly timed penalties. Though I do believe there was a correlation with the the 3rd downs and penalties. I can think of 3 that stopped them from converting(not at the end, just throughout the game).

Edited September 10, 2013 by The Wiz

[Cash]

No I don't think they would have gained more yards by huddling up. As I said before that comment, you give Brady the ball with a minute left and he will find a way to win if they are within a TD. I agree with you it was more bad offense than their 3rd down % and poorly timed penalties. Though I do believe there was a correlation with the the 3rd downs and penalties. I can think of 3 that stopped them from converting(not at the end, just throughout the game).

 

It definitely seemed that way watching it live. I think moreso than any penalty, the play that killed me the most was Chandler's drop of a 30+ yard completion. We'd have been approaching midfield with at least a chance to pin them back against their own goal line, if not score. Instead, it's punt from our own endzone time.

[Prickly Pete]

We're talking about a rookie QB in his very first start, going up against a Belichick defense. Manuel had also missed significant practice time due to an injury. And it's not as though Manuel ran the world's most complex offense in college.

 

The coaches made the decision to keep the offense simple--to keep the training wheels on. Maybe that was the wrong call. But they know a lot more about Manuel and his development than I do. If he wasn't ready for something more complex--and he may well not have been--then keeping the training wheels on probably gave the team its best possible chance to win.

 

 

I can't believe that people need this explained to them.

 

Have people gone back and looked at the debuts of some of the greatest rookie prospects?

 

Give the coaching staff and the QB a chance to at least see where they stand. It would have been foolish to take the reins off, when they were playing in a such a close game, and with a lead no less.

 

That game got away, but Manuel had no turnovers, and seemed to be able to handle everything he was asked to do. Now they can ask a bit more from him.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Up until the last drive they did. 9/18.

 

Pats* were 11/20 on the day.

those are the ones that hurt the most

[/dev/null]

I only picked two, turnovers and Spiller being shut down, because the third reason wasn't listed...defense rolled over when it matters

 

That, plus lack of Tebow

[Spun]

I picked inability to convert on third downs, penalties and play calling. Stevie's drop was part of the third down failures and the play calling had a lot to do with Spiller not getting room. If I was an opposing coach I would have also keyed on Spiller. Maybe they should have used Spiller more as a decoy in the first half or until the pursuit of Spiller loosened up. Brady was going to score sooner or later. So many concerns! For a while, the defense uncharacteristically sent the Pats off after three downs. But by the time the last series came around, the defense was gassed and Brady simply punished.

 

The time of possession: Pats: 37:43 and the Bills: 22:17. Blame part of that on the no-huddle. But just like "recent" years, the Bills offense couldn't stay on the field when they needed to and the defense couldn't exit when they needed to (third downs). Onward and better!!!

[RobT]

I only have two picks because several of our voting choices can be categorized under 'Coaching'. There was the crazy red-flag???; 2, count them 2, 12 men on the field penalties; The inability (or un-willingness) to adjust the game plan which is almost the same thing as having an ineffective 4 minute game plan.

 

My second vote goes to Stevie's drop... Man we needed a first down bad, time to step up and be a leader on Sundays, not vocalize your greatness to the media Monday through Saturday...

 

I understand Marrone wants to run a hurry-up offense and the concept has legitimate merit given the team's strengths. But I can't support any game plan that ends up giving Tom Brady almost 15 more minutes with the ball. Want the best chance to beat Brady, P. Manning, the elites? Keep them off the damn field... Re-watch Super Bowl 25 sometime...

 

Also watch the Eagles - Redskins game from last night. The Eagles went nutz and were extremely successful running the hurry-up, but C. Kelly used the clock to his advantage after they got the lead, Granted it was a bigger lead than the Bills had at any point, but the concept of adjusting to the situation is my point. BTW does your head turn every time someone says 'Chip Kelly' on ESPN or NFL Network? Ohhh Chip Kelly..

 

All that said, with about 30 seconds left in the game I said 'I HOPE MARRONE LEARNS FROM THIS!! And I truly believe we will see a Rookie HC and QB grow up before our eyes this season...