Is Jeff Tuel the reason for T. Tax departure?

[Ralph W.]

 

 

"He (Tuel) got some more work in the minicamp this week and has what look to be good physical tools. Clearly the Bills believe he can be developed since he was kept over Tavaris Jackson". - Chris Brown, July 14, 2013 - 11:46 AM.

 

I think he read my post here before writing his Fan Friday piece. It's not about snatching up some undrafted player. Teams cut and sign players throughout the pre-season and season. It's always about improving the roster. Would love to take that wager but can't afford to risk more than $5.00. Is that ok?

 

I do agree that it's all about Manual. Never said it wasn't. Really like him staying in town until training camp.

 

Nice sparing with you Kirby. Gotta go take the wife out for Friday night dinner.

Awe you falling for PR. How cute.

[Malazan]

Is rain the reason for mustard?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

"He (Tuel) got some more work in the minicamp this week and has what look to be good physical tools. Clearly the Bills believe he can be developed since he was kept over Tavaris Jackson". - Chris Brown, July 14, 2013 - 11:46 AM.

 

I think he read my post here before writing his Fan Friday piece. It's not about snatching up some undrafted player. Teams cut and sign players throughout the pre-season and season. It's always about improving the roster. Would love to take that wager but can't afford to risk more than $5.00. Is that ok?

 

I do agree that it's all about Manual. Never said it wasn't. Really like him staying in town until training camp.

 

Nice sparing with you Kirby. Gotta go take the wife out for Friday night dinner.

 

Nice sparring with you as well and enjoy dinner with the wife!! I am in on the wager. I hope that the kids a player (or Manuel or even Kolb). I want someone to play the position the way that it was meant to be played. I am so exited for this season!! Regardless of the record I like the approach that they are taking.

[texasabres]

I think the OP is on to something. They brought in Tuel for a pre-draft visit and signed him asap after the draft. Someone likes this kid. Once it was clear TJax couldn't beat out Kolb, I'm betting they didn't want to expose Tuel to waivers. Not sure he has done much w/ the Bills to deserve it yet, but someone is interested in him.

[jethro_tull]

TJax left Minnesota because he wanted to compete for a starting job, and Seattle traded him. He's easily good enough for a roster spot, the Bills just handled the QB situation poorly and got played.

thanks for the info about why he left minnesota. still not sure about just how good he is though.

 

the bills scouted (tuel) him with a vengance. washington state qb who broke some of drew bledsoe's records.

Edited June 15, 2013 by jethro_tull

[hondo in seattle]

Given that the Bills don't have a single proven starter on the roster, I would have taken 4 QBs into preseason and kept 3 on the roster in the regular season.

 

As it is now, I tend to think texasabres might be right. The Bills just might give Tuel a roster spot.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Thanks for clearing that up; for a moment I thought he was talking about T. Rex -- who would obviously have been released because of his short arms.

 

That former Boston College nose tackle, Mike Ruth had really short arms. he proved to be a poor NFL player but he would have been a great predatory dinosaur.

 

Can someone help me out here?

 

1. Is it typical for a team to announce who the starters are now or come August?

2. Do rosters need to be cut down now, or does that all occur in August?

 

Thanks.

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=1.+Is+it+typical+for+a+team+to+announce+who+the+starters+are+now+or+come+August%3F+2.+Do+rosters+need+to+be+cut+down+now%2C+or+does+that+all+occur+in+August%3F

[Kirby Jackson]

Given that the Bills don't have a single proven starter on the roster, I would have taken 4 QBs into preseason and kept 3 on the roster in the regular season.

 

As it is now, I tend to think texasabres might be right. The Bills just might give Tuel a roster spot.

 

The wager is on the table and I am giving 2:1 odds. Kolb and EJ are the only guys with a shot to play QB this year (barring injury). They are not keeping a 3rd on the active roster to eat up a roster spot.

[NoSaint]

I think that there are a few teams with questionable QB situations. I just do not see anybody snatching up an undrafted rookie that they did not sign after the draft to be on their active roster. First off, that team would have to carry 3 QBs on their 53. If you do not have 1 QB, I am not sure the logic in carrying 3. I'd be more than willing to wager that he is not on any 53 man roster this year. I'd even give 2 to 1.

 

To the topic on hand, the decision is about Manuel. They want to get him the reps.

 

I won't go out on the zero percent chance he makes it limb but I'm pretty far out there. He's a great practice squad candidate, poor candidate for the 53

 

There are dozens of guys with similar talents and skillsets that sit around the bottom of rosters. They aren't seen as starters. They are guys that you think can run the scout team and hopefully be a backup one day. Once in a blue moon one surprises. Rarely are they stolen from other teams because the consistency and familiarity is worth more than the gap in talent between qb80 and qb85 league wide.

[Delete This Account]

the answer to the thread title is: no.

 

jw

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I won't go out on the zero percent chance he makes it limb but I'm pretty far out there. He's a great practice squad candidate, poor candidate for the 53

 

There are dozens of guys with similar talents and skillsets that sit around the bottom of rosters. They aren't seen as starters. They are guys that you think can run the scout team and hopefully be a backup one day. Once in a blue moon one surprises. Rarely are they stolen from other teams because the consistency and familiarity is worth more than the gap in talent between qb80 and qb85 league wide.

 

You pretty much said it better than I could. I guess that was my point that he is a great practice squad candidate and not a great roster candidate. He will hopefully develop into a backup someday but not likely to be on the 53.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Tuel Rules !

[billsfan89]

Liking your third string QB is hardly a reason to cut a veteran, its likely that they would have done it anyway to get EJ the reps but the fact that they have a third QB that is impressing them is likely making the decision easier.

[mik]

Most fans and reporters have speculated that Tavaris Jackson was released last week in order to give E.J. the opportunity for more reps. That is probably the case.

 

John Murphy spoke with Simon on GR55 this morning of his impressions of minni-camp and at the end of Murphy's summary, he noted the arm talent of Jeff Tuel. I watched you tube highlites of Tuel and thought he threw the ball well and moved well in and out of the pocket. Now Murph has taken notice of him which makes me think that the departure of Jackson was for Tuel's benefit as well as E.J.'s. Training camp will be a lot of fun to watch this year.

 

I also love the glowing remarks about Kiko Alonzo, i.e., "it will take a stick of dynomite to get him out of the starting lineup". I'm excited.

 

All I will say is that Jackson had the Seahawks playing pretty well when he last got regular playing time. Why he never got a chance in Buffalo will always be a mystery. If they cut ties with Jackson, who had been playing well for Seattle then, perhaps, all three QBs on the roster (Kolb, Manuel, Tuel) are showing real potential.

[NoSaint]

My take - they wanted two guys that could play week 1. The Jackson signing was simple insurance with fitz being a question mark, and you never knowing what vet might be cut, if said vet will even sign with you, if your guy falls to you in the draft.... And not often discussed but if that rookie looks like he's worth anything opening day.

 

I think EJ made this decision not tuel. I think they wanted two guys so if one takes a Tom Brady hit to the knee week one they have another they feel confident tossing in there. If EJ didnt shine early and looked like a project that sits for a full year, kolb would have Jackson out there paid like a backup to be his backup. With kolb and ej fighting for 1 & 2, there's no reason to keep a guy paid as a high end number two to fill the number 3 spot.

[indiragandhi'sthong]

Good post. Obviously, they weren't keeping two vets on this roster, but I think the Teul observation is a good one. Two young QBs come in together, form a relationship and grow together, and maybe Teul becomes the back up in a season or two. Reestablishing a Kelly/Reich type relationship for a few years could be a good thing.

[Braedenstearns]

I think EJ and Tuel are going to be the next RG3 and Kirk

[Mr. WEO]

Wow, Tuel sounds like this year's Mike Jasper!

[NoSaint]

Wow, Tuel sounds like this year's Mike Jasper!

 

Couldn't have said it better.

[OCinBuffalo]

the answer to the thread title is: no.

 

jw

Quoted for relevancy of poster.

[billsfan_34]

Why does it matter? T jax has been bounced around and has stunk it up. We were just dumb enough to waste a 7th. Manuel will be the starter day 1, kolb back up and then the 3 will be truel or someone else but truel has no impact on decisions

[OCinBuffalo]

The other thing is: Why the F do we have to have a guy named "Tool" on the team?

 

What is it with Buffalo, that we always have to have some practically irrelevant thing, that other fans use to make fun of us? I had to listen to Jet fans in particular, none of whom probably passed 10th grade English...get to make the Loss Man joke.

 

Why do our teams seem to have a side business, that is making the modern moron seem witty?

 

But, this is nuanced, to be sure. For example, I see the wisdom in having a LB named Butt Kiss. You want a guy who is angry. Angry at being called Butt Kiss his whole life, and left slightly crazed by it, playing LB. You want a guy who is going to hit everything he sees, hard, as a result.

 

But at QB, I don't see how anger helps. Confidence is the key, and being the Loss Man or the Tool...doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

 

(Incidentally, I was at this charity event a long time ago, half hammered as per normal, and Dick Butkus was there. Thankfully, one of my co-workers stopped my curiosity from getting the better of me, so I didn't ask him what growing up as Butt Kiss was like. However, to this day, I still want to know. It's not that I can't figure it out, I just want to hear his take on it. That, and I want to get him to say Butt Kiss, because I think that would be hilarious.)

[ganesh]

Only Bills fans can fall in love with guys who will never play the game.

 

I don't think the Bills fans ever fell in love with TJ....It is one of the most bizarre moves made by Chan and Nix, especially that allowed them to keep Tyler Thigpen as the backup. They simply made a complicated decision in which TJ actually will not throw a single pass in the regular season in a Bills Unfiorm.

 

Why does it matter? T jax has been bounced around and has stunk it up. We were just dumb enough to waste a 7th. Manuel will be the starter day 1, kolb back up and then the 3 will be truel or someone else but truel has no impact on decisions

Disagree. May be Tuel showed enough to this coaching staff during OTA/Mini-camp that they felt comfortable being the 3rd string QB. May be they feel Tuel can play the game if the other two get injured.

[billsfan_34]

 

 

I don't think the Bills fans ever fell in love with TJ....It is one of the most bizarre moves made by Chan and Nix, especially that allowed them to keep Tyler Thigpen as the backup. They simply made a complicated decision in which TJ actually will not throw a single pass in the regular season in a Bills Unfiorm.

 

 

Disagree. May be Tuel showed enough to this coaching staff during OTA/Mini-camp that they felt comfortable being the 3rd string QB. May be they feel Tuel can play the game if the other two get injured.

Valid points im reslectfully leaning more towards tjax simply stinking it up as he always has. Im just a firm believer trends dont lie and in this case tjax has set a trend in the nfl as bein inadequate on the field.

[Cheddar's Dad]

Why does it matter? T jax has been bounced around and has stunk it up. We were just dumb enough to waste a 7th. Manuel will be the starter day 1, kolb back up and then the 3 will be truel or someone else but truel has no impact on decisions

 

Every coaching staff is interested not only in developing starters but also backups that can perform well when starters are injured. That's why it matters. If Tuel (not truel) shows indications that he has the telent to not only back up but to effectively start, it matters greatly. Everyone knows that Manuel is being developed to be the starter. It may have been that they have little doubt that he will do well. If so, what drives a staff's decision regarding who will be backup? Easy answer if you think about it. It's the player that has the most upside, talent, best future, most promise. Call it what you want. That may have been the reason why Jackson was released in favor of Tuel more so than what the coaches feel about Manuel.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Every coaching staff is interested not only in developing starters but also backups that can perform well when starters are injured. That's why it matters. If Tuel (not truel) shows indications that he has the telent to not only back up but to effectively start, it matters greatly. Everyone knows that Manuel is being developed to be the starter. It may have been that they have little doubt that he will do well. If so, what drives a staff's decision regarding who will be backup? Easy answer if you think about it. It's the player that has the most upside, talent, best future, most promise. Call it what you want. That may have been the reason why Jackson was released in favor of Tuel more so than what the coaches feel about Manuel.

 

And your the only beating the "he's a starter" drum

[Cheddar's Dad]

And your the only beating the "he's a starter" drum

 

????? I don't think so. I'm beating the, it may be that the staff preferred Tuel over Jackson as the primary reason for Jackson's release, drum. Why is that so difficult for some to understand? Many think Jackson's release was primarily to give Manuel more reps. It may be that the staff always intended to do that regardless of who was second or third string. I'm just saying - oh, forget it!

[Ralph W.]

He costs less money.

/end thread

[San Jose Bills Fan]

????? I don't think so. I'm beating the, it may be that the staff preferred Tuel over Jackson as the primary reason for Jackson's release, drum. Why is that so difficult for some to understand? Many think Jackson's release was primarily to give Manuel more reps. It may be that the staff always intended to do that regardless of who was second or third string. I'm just saying - oh, forget it!

 

I'm in that small minority that agrees that Tuel's encouraging performance so far may have played a small part in the decision to release TJax. I don't think it was the primary reason though.

 

By a long shot.

[ganesh]

I'm in that small minority that agrees that Tuel's encouraging performance so far may have played a small part in the decision to release TJax. I don't think it was the primary reason though.

 

By a long shot.

 

+1

[Rocky Landing]

Why does it matter? T jax has been bounced around and has stunk it up. We were just dumb enough to waste a 7th. Manuel will be the starter day 1, kolb back up and then the 3 will be truel or someone else but truel has no impact on decisions

 

The opinions on this board regarding EJ Manuel are a testament to our fans’ optimism, short-term memory, and willingness to rewrite, and if necessary, completely ignore history. Before we easily traded down to acquire Manuel, he was generally considered to be around the fourth or fifth best QB in a remarkably weak QB class. Just about any description of him, pre-draft, included the words, “inconsistent,” and “project.”

 

What’s really amazing to me is that the majority of Bills fans seem to have completely written off the season opener against the Pats. But, I have a hard time believing that Coach Marrone feels the same way. And, I have a hard time believing that a new coach with zero NFL HC experience, and a new staff is going to throw a rookie “project” into the mix against division rivals, the NE patriots.

 

Could EJ explode in the preseason and turn into a genuine NFL starter with a better chance of beating the Pats than Kolb? I suppose. Is it likely? I doubt it. And, what is the potential damage to a “project” QB that we all hope is the future of the franchise if he is thrown into the fire before he is ready?

 

Start Kolb.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

OK Carnack. Have it your way. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but seems to me that once a team selects it's 53 man roster, other teams can claim whatever player remains. That is why the team has to wait 24 hrs. or so before signing players to it's practice squad. If Tuel performs well I don't think Buffalo will risk that.

 

I'm feeling a flashback to the Levi Brown signing. As I recall fans here were all up about Brown being too valuable to expose to waivers. As I recall he was cut outright - not even signed to the practice squad - and enjoyed several weeks at home before being eventually brought onto the PS. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but UDFA QB are not generally prime articles to snatch up right before the start of the season. If you're short a QB 'cuz someone gets injured right before the start of season you're typically looking for a proven vet who can come in and keep the team in the game until the starter gets back, not a UDFA rook.

[Ralph W.]

 

 

The opinions on this board regarding EJ Manuel are a testament to our fans’ optimism, short-term memory, and willingness to rewrite, and if necessary, completely ignore history. Before we easily traded down to acquire Manuel, he was generally considered to be around the fourth or fifth best QB in a remarkably weak QB class. Just about any description of him, pre-draft, included the words, “inconsistent,” and “project.”

 

What’s really amazing to me is that the majority of Bills fans seem to have completely written off the season opener against the Pats. But, I have a hard time believing that Coach Marrone feels the same way. And, I have a hard time believing that a new coach with zero NFL HC experience, and a new staff is going to throw a rookie “project” into the mix against division rivals, the NE patriots.

 

Could EJ explode in the preseason and turn into a genuine NFL starter with a better chance of beating the Pats than Kolb? I suppose. Is it likely? I doubt it. And, what is the potential damage to a “project” QB that we all hope is the future of the franchise if he is thrown into the fire before he is ready?

 

Start Kolb.

What you don't understand is history means nothing with players. Everyone is different and all it takes is one guy to turn your franchise around.

[reddogblitz]

Just about any description of him, pre-draft, included the words, “inconsistent,”

This is the thing that bothers me about the EJ pick. The “inconsistent” part. I know, 68% completion %. I've watched several game of his and he also has problem accurately throwing the long ball. Didn't we just run a QB out of town who was “inconsistent”and had problems throwing the long ball?

 

I like the kid and am rooting for him big time. But this does give me concern.

Edited June 17, 2013 by reddogblitz

[ganesh]

This is the thing that bothers me about the EJ pick. The “inconsistent” part. I know, 68% completion %. I've watched several game of his and he also has problem accurately throwing the long ball. Didn't we just run a QB out of town who was “inconsistent”and had problems throwing the long ball?

 

I like the kid and am rooting for him big time. But this does give me concern.

 

Fitz was uncoachable and had reached his limit. His % of inconsistency was not going to change. EJ is just beginning his career and has good scope for improvement under the right guidance. Fitz was done, EJ has the potential to become a consistent thrower. That is the difference.

[ny33]

Every coaching staff is interested not only in developing starters but also backups that can perform well when starters are injured. That's why it matters. If Tuel (not truel) shows indications that he has the telent to not only back up but to effectively start, it matters greatly. Everyone knows that Manuel is being developed to be the starter. It may have been that they have little doubt that he will do well. If so, what drives a staff's decision regarding who will be backup? Easy answer if you think about it. It's the player that has the most upside, talent, best future, most promise. Call it what you want. That may have been the reason why Jackson was released in favor of Tuel more so than what the coaches feel about Manuel.

 

Tuel is probably a practice squad player when we have future cut-downs. I'm sure the team has been fairly happy with him, but Manuel and Kolb's progress is almost certainly the reason Tarvaris Jackson was cut.

[Homey D. Clown]

OH MY GOD! You don't think Tuel's play is now going to make EJ expendable, do you?

 

yes. it will be a Tuel vs. jamarcus russel super bowl this year, bills lose of course.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

This is the thing that bothers me about the EJ pick. The “inconsistent” part. I know, 68% completion %. I've watched several game of his and he also has problem accurately throwing the long ball. Didn't we just run a QB out of town who was “inconsistent”and had problems throwing the long ball?

 

I like the kid and am rooting for him big time. But this does give me concern.

 

EJ has trouble with long ball consistency?

 

That's not what I've seen or read.

 

Do you have a link?

[Cheddar's Dad]

This is the thing that bothers me about the EJ pick. The “inconsistent” part. I know, 68% completion %. I've watched several game of his and he also has problem accurately throwing the long ball. Didn't we just run a QB out of town who was “inconsistent”and had problems throwing the long ball?

 

I like the kid and am rooting for him big time. But this does give me concern.

 

Didn't Manuel have the best percentage of completion numbers of any of the top ranked QB candidates in this past draft? Didn't he also have the best yards per completion numbers? There are flaws to his game and he may not start vs, New England but the scouting staff felt he had the best potential for greatness of any of the candidates. I think they will take the approach with Manuel that Gailey took with Glenn; i.e., give him lots of reps meaning as many reps as Kolb and if he looks better than Kolb, more reps than Kolb. From what I have been hearing, both Manuel and Kold have been throwing interceptions in training but Kolb has trouble with rushers closing around him. Whereas Manual has a better pocket awareness and escapability. If everything else is relatively equal, that factor could make Manuel the starter on day one. If he is, I'm certain the coaches will give him a limited package to work with but the chance is there that he will start.

 

Tuel is probably a practice squad player when we have future cut-downs. I'm sure the team has been fairly happy with him, but Manuel and Kolb's progress is almost certainly the reason Tarvaris Jackson was cut.

 

The ugly truth about this team is that, although there are 53 roster players, Buffalo does not have 53 quality players to fill those roster positions. This, actually, is true of most team. Teams carry a certain amount of borderline players to have a body in case someone gets injurred but if it came down to retaining one of those borderline players over a young QB that looks like he can be developed into a very good player, they will not choose that borderline player over that QB candidate for that last roster spot. That would be plainly stupid. Coaches just don't look at this comming year. They also look at next year and beyond. Belichick, for example, selected Mallett in the 3rd round a few years ago even though he had Brady in his prime and two other QBs on his roster. He retained Mallett and everyone is wondering if he will keep him or trade him. Rumor has it that Brady wants to play 4 more years and Belichick is looking for a second round pick for Mallett. So he turns a third into a second. Someone will likely take that trade although no one has seen Mallett enough in pre-season to get much of an idea if he can play. I can't stand that santimonious, egotistical jerk but have to admit he knows how to play this game.

[OCinBuffalo]

This is the thing that bothers me about the EJ pick. The “inconsistent” part. I know, 68% completion %. I've watched several game of his and he also has problem accurately throwing the long ball. Didn't we just run a QB out of town who was “inconsistent”and had problems throwing the long ball?

 

I like the kid and am rooting for him big time. But this does give me concern.

I have watched the kid throw in OTAs, and he has nearly flawless QB form. He is the exact opposite of FItz in that aspect, especially when it comes to release and the spin on the ball. Thus, I am near being absolutely convinced that this "consistency" thing, for a guy with 68% completion , and "long ball accuracy", when we've seen him throw 80 yard TDs, over and over already , and, "he was only accurate because he threw a lot of short passes", for a guy who averaged 8.9 yards per throw?

 

Nothing more than leftover pieces of draft disinformation.

 

Most likely draft disinformation that was spread by the Bills themselves. Now, it's disinformation that is still out there, and some people have latched onto it. The Bills aren't interested in running around correcting anybody, because that would only prove what they knew and how, and therefore stands to get them busted as being the spreaders of draft manure. There was one radio show where some media person called the Bills out on this and said "we will never trust them again". I fail to see the downside for the Bills in that. Especially 2 weeks prior to the draft, when instead of trusting what the Bills say, the media chooses to engage in their own speculation....talk about disinformation.

 

Consider: they did the exact same thing with Cordy Glenn last year, and not only did it work, they admitted to it right after: "Hell no, he's not a guard. People were saying it because we were saying it. A lot of that was us."

Edited June 17, 2013 by OCinBuffalo