Leodis: keep him or not?

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm right there with you. His ST abilities are a huge bonus but for a former 1st rounder I think he should be contributing more than just on ST and Nickel packages.

While that is true, it's entirely immaterial to this discussion or the decision the Bills have to make. How much, right now, on the open market, is McLovin' worth, considering you probably have to add 2-3 CBs to your roster this year.

[jester43]

I think one of the more interesting developments of this off-season is going to be what the new staff sees in players currently on the roster.

Boy that's an understatement! i can't wait to see who they keep and who they dump. I am crossing my fingers that they see something in our secondary and don't feel the need to gut it. McKelvin is a big part of that of course. i hope he stays.

[VirginiaMike]

I'm not sure how much is he due next year, but I think he has enough talent to bring back and give a chance to make the team in training camp. He certainly has the make-up speed to close that you want in a CB. I don't know if he can be taught the cover skills to stay with someone. Give him a shot in training camp for sure. His special team skills are special -- that is a big plus by itself.

[Smiley Dear]

Don't worry folks, even if he's on another team, he'll still be posting on Twitter. That's all we need.

#datrite

[The Wiz]

While that is true, it's entirely immaterial to this discussion or the decision the Bills have to make. How much, right now, on the open market, is McLovin' worth, considering you probably have to add 2-3 CBs to your roster this year.

To the discussion probably but I don't think to the decision the Bills have to make. Someone wants to offer him 6-8 million a year to take kick offs/punts and play ~10 defensive downs a game then they can have him.

 

His market value, I agree that he might have higher value considering the market but I'm curious how many teams see him as anything more than what I initially posted. I know I don't know how the league looks at him.

Edited January 10, 2013 by The Wiz

[RyanC883]

His speed could be an asset for the new DC who likes to use exotic blitz packages. Perhaps he could blitz as a corner a bit. But I wouldn't overpay for him. His coverage is above-average, but he has TERRIBLE ball awareness and skills.

[White Linen]

I do. I'd estimate him getting a 3 year at under 10.

 

No way he comes that cheap.

[Kelly the Dog]

I can't believe people think he will be getting offers of 5-6 million a year but I suppose it's possible. I think like most players, he would be dumb not to test FA. The Bills have been blessed with a lot of good returners on KR and PR over his career. Some team may offer him the PR and KR duties plus a chance to start or play a lot at CB.

[mattsox]

I think we need to keep him for his ST ability alone. But I am interested to find out if he will fare better with a more aggressive style of defense. He may do better in man coverage where his athletic ability is most important rather than a zone scheme where he needs to use his brain to make reads and such. Unless somebody gives him a huge payday, I think he will be back.

 

Keep him. I think he's a good player. Not great but good. Love his ST ability.

[billsfan89]

I would bring him back for the right price. Good return man and a very seductive player (Great physical capabilities, shows flashes of brilliance, and his weak points seem correctable) but its been 5 seasons (08, 09, 10, 11, 12) we know what we have with McKelvin for the most part. Yes he is still young and yeah the skills are there. But you have to set your price and stick to it I say 4-5 million 3-4 year deal nothing gauranteed beyond the first year.

 

Sadly because there will be some team that could use a return man and thinks they got what it takes to correct him he will get paid in the 6-7 million dollar range for a 5+ year deal with a guarantee. Give him a fair offer and just leave it at that. He walks he walks. Its not a big loss.

[missthe kgun]

Take care of Bryd and Levitre 1st... then work on keeping him, he's too dynamic to not try at least to keep him here

[26CornerBlitz]

@ChrisBrownBills

Leodis makes another All-NFL list http://wp.me/plmrg-7g3

[Maury Ballstein]

its not my money......i don't understand why some of you are worried about a million or two of ralph's money. we gave 60 mil to a worthless QB...who cares if we overpay a talented all around player an extra mil or two?

 

leodis brings a ton of value at the KR position and the D did fare better with McK in and AW out. seems like a no brainer to me.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Ryan L Billz

[simpleman]

I think that if the FO really was serious about using analytics this would be the perfect test for them. At what dollar value is he worth keeping? Above that value let him leave. Below that, keep him.

[RuntheDamnBall]

its not my money......i don't understand why some of you are worried about a million or two of ralph's money. we gave 60 mil to a worthless QB...who cares if we overpay a talented all around player an extra mil or two?

 

leodis brings a ton of value at the KR position and the D did fare better with McK in and AW out. seems like a no brainer to me.

On one hand, I agree with you, as long as it doesn't kill the cap, but we've got Fitzy and another new QB, linebackers, and a few other things including basic raises to worry about for a few players, plus Byrd and Levitre.

 

Also, you can't overpay players too much lest you run into a situation like Jason Peters seeing Dockery and Langston Walker earning way more despite being clearly inferior at less crucial positions. You can overpay a bit, but not at the cost of causing discontent.

 

I do agree with the poster who says "this is a job for analytics." There's a value for Leodis, and probably a point at which he is not worth the salary relative to what a replacement plus that salary distributed elsewhere will yield, if that makes sense. Basically, if it's Ron Brooks at #2CB and we lose Leodis, OR McKelvin stays but we lose Byrd, I know what I'm choosing.

 

The question as regards salary is: what will paying McKelvin prohibit the Bills from doing, once his salary eclipses a certain point?

[Buftex]

We need several CBs to play in this defense. His ST play is a huge advantage. He also, as you said, may benefit from the new defense. I thought before last year that our pass rush (which never ever materialized) would allow us to find out what kind of talent we actually had at CB. And we never found that out, except for the fact that they cannot cover anyone when QBs have all day to throw and can run at will.

 

I really hope we keep McLovin.

 

 

Completely agree...but I think he has "too much" talent that some team is going to pay more than the Bills are going to want to pay to keep him. They can't pay everyone...

 

I can't believe people think he will be getting offers of 5-6 million a year but I suppose it's possible. I think like most players, he would be dumb not to test FA. The Bills have been blessed with a lot of good returners on KR and PR over his career. Some team may offer him the PR and KR duties plus a chance to start or play a lot at CB.

 

I remember that the Broncos were rumored to be very interested in Leodis a year or two ago...there was even mention of him being the center-piece, from the Bills end, in a trade for Tebow...at that time, there seemed to be the perception that league sources felt McKelvin was a "superstar" waiting for the right place to thrive.

[hondo in seattle]

I think we need to keep him for his ST ability alone. But I am interested to find out if he will fare better with a more aggressive style of defense. He may do better in man coverage where his athletic ability is most important rather than a zone scheme where he needs to use his brain to make reads and such. Unless somebody gives him a huge payday, I think he will be back.

 

I agree. McKelvin has the athletic ability to perform at the NFL level. Let's see if new coaches can help him live up to his potential.

[I'm Spartacus]

I can't believe people think he will be getting offers of 5-6 million a year but I suppose it's possible. I think like most players, he would be dumb not to test FA. The Bills have been blessed with a lot of good returners on KR and PR over his career. Some team may offer him the PR and KR duties plus a chance to start or play a lot at CB.

[Bufcomments]

i say keep McLovin. He can handle both punt and Kickoff returns and he's pretty good at it. He can change field position so he has excellent value on that alone.

 

Plus I would like to see him in this Defense. Maybe Petine can max his talent there.

[paupmvp1995]

I would bring him back for the right price. Good return man and a very seductive player (Great physical capabilities, shows flashes of brilliance, and his weak points seem correctable) but its been 5 seasons (08, 09, 10, 11, 12) we know what we have with McKelvin for the most part. Yes he is still young and yeah the skills are there. But you have to set your price and stick to it I say 4-5 million 3-4 year deal nothing gauranteed beyond the first year.

 

Sadly because there will be some team that could use a return man and thinks they got what it takes to correct him he will get paid in the 6-7 million dollar range for a 5+ year deal with a guarantee. Give him a fair offer and just leave it at that. He walks he walks. Its not a big loss.

I think McKelvin has a good chance of coming back. No team is going to offer a 5 year contract to a corner who is most likely not going to be a starter for them. I think Leodis loves playing for the Bills and would love to come back. He is one of the best returners in the league and will hopefully stay at that level for at least the next three years. I would make him a competitive offer in the 3 year 10 million range and go from there. He can play anywhere from our number 2 thru 5 corner, and be an amazing return guy. And I hope everyone notices how much energy he brings to the team. I really like his positive attitude. Lets hope our new coaching staff feels the same way.

[biggerdaddynj]

Take care of Bryd and Levitre 1st... then work on keeping him, he's too dynamic to not try at least to keep him here

Byrd and Levitre are much, much bigger priorities. I'm frankly not that worried about McKelvin. He was a flop. Remember, McKelvin was the 11th pick in the '08 draft--the 11th pick!!!! I'd rather see what Brooks can do. There are plenty of CBs available in FA--let's get one who knows Pettine's system so we have someone for our young CBs to turn to for help. As for return men, that's the one area we seem to have luck. I recall reading that TJ Graham (please don't get me started with that pick!)--set a school record for KRs at NC State and also returned punts. Let's get some production out of him!!! If not him, I'm sure we have someone else who can return kicks. Move on from Leodis, his return skills are not something this team can afford to overpay for. IMHO we have other priorities we need to spend $$$ on.

Edited January 11, 2013 by biggerdaddynj

[26CornerBlitz]

Leodis McKelvin intends to sign a cornerback contract

[C.Biscuit97]

I'd love to keep him because I love his attitude. When he got benched, he never pouted and just worked his butt off and became our best STer since Tasker. He's going to leave and became a decent starting cb because it's all about confidence with him. And the same idiots who were bashing him while he was here will start bashing hte Bills for letting him go. Watch.

[Matt in KC]

 

Leodis McKelvin intends to sign a cornerback contract

 

"I should be looked at as a No. 2 or at worst a No. 3," McKelvin said. "I still strongly believe that I can play in this league, that I can be a starter. I know I'm a starter.

That sure makes it sound like he wants to go somewhere else.

 

 

While it's all funny money to me, I'd hope they offer him $3-3.5 M / year and tell him he'll get an honest shot to compete for the CB position. If he's the best, he'll start.

[C.Biscuit97]

That sure makes it sound like he wants to go somewhere else.

 

 

While it's all funny money to me, I'd hope they offer him $3-3.5 M / year and tell him he'll get an honest shot to compete for the CB position. If he's the best, he'll start.

 

I agree with this. I think McKelvin played pretty good after his benching. And isn't a homerun threat on returns worth $3 million? What does Hester make?

[FLFan]

I would really like to keep him, but I suspect he will get better offers elsewhere, and be added to the infamous "one and done" list of high 1st round DB draft picks of the Bills.

[RuntheDamnBall]

That sure makes it sound like he wants to go somewhere else.

 

 

While it's all funny money to me, I'd hope they offer him $3-3.5 M / year and tell him he'll get an honest shot to compete for the CB position. If he's the best, he'll start.

I'd top out at 4MM per but maybe give him more years and a mid-contract bonus that is good enough to reward good play, but not simply a trigger for him to be cut.

 

That, and bid adieu to Terrence McGee unless both his body and Mike Pettine tell him he can play safety.

[C.Biscuit97]

I would really like to keep him, but I suspect he will get better offers elsewhere, and be added to the infamous "one and done" list of high 1st round DB draft picks of the Bills.

 

It's funny that 3 our our 1st round dbs started on playoff teams this year: Whitner, Clements, and Winfield.

[RuntheDamnBall]

It's funny that 3 our our 1st round dbs started on playoff teams this year: Whitner, Clements, and Winfield.

Bill in NYC's head explodes. Mine, too.

[26CornerBlitz]

Bill in NYC's head explodes. Mine, too.

 

Just wait until the Bills draft Dee Milliner with the #8 pick.

Edited January 16, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz

[RuntheDamnBall]

Just wait until the Bills draft Dee Milner with the #8 pick.

I'll send a big bag of dog poop to OBD.

[Matt in KC]

I'd top out at 4MM per but maybe give him more years and a mid-contract bonus that is good enough to reward good play, but not simply a trigger for him to be cut.

 

That, and bid adieu to Terrence McGee unless both his body and Mike Pettine tell him he can play safety.

Yeah, I've finally come to terms with McGee's demise. He was one of our best CBs early in the year even though he never got up to full speed. I think he's my favorite Bill from the last 15-20 years, a natural playmaker when healthy.

[FLFan]

It's funny that 3 our our 1st round dbs started on playoff teams this year: Whitner, Clements, and Winfield.

Funny would not be the first adjective that comes to mind. Unless you are into dark humor, that is. Will McKelvin be the 4th?

 

Just wait until the Bills draft Dee Milliner with the #8 pick.

I would have to slit my wrists. Seriously.

[Dibs]

I understand that the new defensive system may place a higher importance on having good CBs but.....didn't we endeavour to replace McKelvin not only last draft with the #10 pick(Gilmore) but also in the previous one with the #34 pick(Williams)?

 

Seems to me that the plan has been to assume that McKelvin was not going to improve to be the #1 CB by end of his contract and try and replace him prior to him leaving. Unless we are going to be after two first class CBs.....or we believe that Gilmore(& Williams) will not be able to perform as a desired #1 CB....I see no reason why we would be drafting Milliner(apart from that we regularly draft a CB in the 1st).

 

I personally would have no problem with him being paid as a mid priced #2 CB(though I don't know what figure that would entail).

[Solomon Grundy]

Keep him!

[Mr. WEO]

Leodis hurt his back with about five games to go in the season. His last 4-5 returns, where he still averaged 11+ yards or so, were while he was already injured. Then he re-injured his groin, which was bothering him the whole second half of the season and why he was listed as probable on the injury reports. The back especially, drastically affected his returns. And yet he still managed to have the best year 18.7 of any NFL player since 1974 when the leader was18.8.

 

And Spiller, Rogers, Byrd and other guys before and since Roscoe are proof there are not just plug 'n play returners. McLovin is a great returner.

I can't believe people think he will be getting offers of 5-6 million a year but I suppose it's possible. I think like most players, he would be dumb not to test FA. The Bills have been blessed with a lot of good returners on KR and PR over his career. Some team may offer him the PR and KR duties plus a chance to start or play a lot at CB.

 

Well?--which is it? You can't aregue both statements as true.

 

Anyway, Leodis was a plug-n-play PR. And Spiller wouild probably be better than anyone.

 

If McK is too banged up to return punts 5 games into the season (he returned less than 25 punts all year!), what is his value? If our defense was halfway to average, there would have been more work for him to do last season.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Mr. WEO

[Turbosrrgood]

I'd love to re-sign him at a reasonable value. He is indeed one of the best PR in the league. I think he would also make a solid nickle/reserve back.

 

This is a weird situation, in a rare time when a team is actually interested in re-signing a player that is essentially a bust (he was supposed to be a lockdown corner). I don't think there is any magical scheme that will mask his inability to locate the ball downfield, however I think he provides good value for the reasons listed above.

 

Having said all that I don't think he will be back. I think some other team will throw some money at him and promise him a chance to compete for a starting job (even though I don't think he can be a reliable starter).

Edited January 16, 2013 by Turbosrrgood

[Kelly the Dog]

Well?--which is it? You can't aregue both statements as true.

 

Anyway, Leodis was a plug-n-play PR. And Spiller wouild probably be better than anyone.

 

If McK is too banged up to return punts 5 games into the season (he returned less than 25 punts all year!), what is his value? If our defense was halfway to average, there would have been more work for him to do last season.

Sure you can argue both statements are true, because they are. In five years with Leodis, the Bills had Terrence McGee, Roscoe and Brad Smith, that's a lot of great returners (some may argue Smith isn't but when you are second in the league, you're pretty great in my book, and he was good this year, keeping Leodis on the bench). AND in five years, the Bills have tried a bunch of other guys on PR and KR that have not been great, showing it is not a plug n play. Spiller MAY be great, but he hasn't at all shown it yet, and has been very pedestrian in both KR and PR most every time he has gotten the chance.

 

And obviously, McLovin' wasn't too banged up to return punts earlier in the year, he was hurt and returned them anyway, just not as prolific (usually) as he did when he was healthy. Later, when he got his second injury (his back) and THIRD injury ( a worse groin injury), he wasn't able to be great, just very good, until he couldn't run at all and was IR'd.

[Mango]

I think we need to keep him for his ST ability alone. But I am interested to find out if he will fare better with a more aggressive style of defense. He may do better in man coverage where his athletic ability is most important rather than a zone scheme where he needs to use his brain to make reads and such. Unless somebody gives him a huge payday, I think he will be back.

 

Leodis never or rarely blows coverage. He just can't defend the ball well. He is always right on his receivers hip. He is the perfect example of a good pass rush helping him out. He'll be became our number two. If the qb has the time to place the ball where he wants throw towards Mckelvin all day. But if the qb needs to throw on the run or off a back foot Mckelvin has the coverage perfect, i catchable ball