SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) He just doesn't seem to have the strength to break tackles, and he's not quite elusive enough to avoid contact. How many times have you seen him run (or after a catch) and say "Damn! He almost broke that one! If he had only beat that one tackler." Well you have to start wondering at some point when he's ACTUALLY going to beat that one tackler. In today's NFL of speedy LBs and DEs, a RB simply cannot be successful if breaking tackles is not in his repertoire of skills. Going down at first contact is as damning as not finding the hole. Otherwise, I was relatively impressed. Spiller has pretty good vision and he's improved immensely with blitz pickup. If I were CJ I would dedicate my off-season to improvements on my core strength and balance, because hi Edited November 28, 2011 by SageAgainstTheMachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Sylvan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Yeah I think Spiller has the tools to be successful. If we have better run blocking he and Jackson could be extremely deadly. CJ needs to improve, but I think he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacAddict104 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Yeah I think Spiller has the tools to be successful. If we have better run blocking he and Jackson could be extremely deadly. CJ needs to improve, but I think he will. Agreed....you need to give CJ some open space and this line was unable to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 i think cj looked ok out there today. what i think he could benefit most from is experience. if he is out there in different situations he may be able to learn from them and become more comfortable making him react rather than think. we can all see he has all the tools needed for the job, he just seems to be a bit tentative at times. i think he'll eventually be a very good back for us, he just needs some on-the-job training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I think his biggest flaw is that he doesn't run with any authority. He seems tentative to the hole and, as I said last week, seems like he doesn't want to engage. I will give him credit for being more patient lately. It's a start. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Fair point, but I think for the majority of runs that he got stuffed on, Fred would have been stuffed too. The run blocking up front was pretty bad. At the same time, CJ misread a few blocks as well, so you can't lay it totally on the O-Line. I think the biggest problem with today's running game was the play calling. Chan was calling the most basic plays out there for whatever reason, and none of these plays involved CJ going around the edge. Everything was between the tackles. I think this was a big mistake and I don't really understand it, though it could have been because the interior O-line has barely played with each other and are incredibly immobile. Ie, they wouldn't be able to shift to the edge and get any blocking for CJ. That being said, as good as the Jets are at sealing off the edge, I'd take a few shots anyways, betting that CJ's speed can beat most NFL linebackers around the corner. I'll give you that he can't break tackles, though I'm not sure that can be fixed with any strength training. By all accounts, CJ is one of the hardest working Bills out there, and the guy is jacked. But when a 300-350 lb DT is getting to you untouched, you are going to go down no matter what you do. I think he can put it together, but not sure if he is a 25 touches a game RB with this personnel. Yes, I wasn't impressed by the play calling either. Would've liked to see Spiller try to get to the corner a few times. That said, you look around the NFL and there isn't exactly a glut of RBs who make their living outside the hashmarks. Reggie Bush has struggled with the same thing, learning how to play between the tackles. Now, none of this is to say that Spiller can't have a successful NFL career as a role player. But if his aim is to carry the load for a team at RB, this element of his game needs improvement. Personally, I think it's equally about balance as well as strength. Some RBs (Mendenhall comes to mind) have been known to participate in activities like yoga and ballet to improve balance. Edited November 28, 2011 by SageAgainstTheMachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Agreed....you need to give CJ some open space and this line was unable to do that That's how I see it. I think he's a finesse back, he needs to be set up for success either with strong line play or clever play calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 He just doesn't seem to have the strength to break tackles, and he's not quite elusive enough to avoid contact. How many times have you seen him run (or after a catch) and say "Damn! He almost broke that one! If he had only beat that one tackler." Well you have to start wondering at some point when he's ACTUALLY going to beat that one tackler. In today's NFL of speedy LBs and DEs, a RB simply cannot be successful if breaking tackles is not in his repertoire of skills. Going down at first contact is as damning as not finding the hole. Otherwise, I was relatively impressed. Spiller has pretty good vision and he's improved immensely with blitz pickup. If I were CJ I would dedicate my off-season to improvements on my core strength and balance, because hi I do not see any improvement in his blocking any more than his running. For example, if I am not mistaken, he whiffed horrifically on one of the Maybin sacks, did he not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 He is too light on his feet and does not lift them enough when he is in traffic. He makes his body too big - too susceptible to contact while lacking the explosiveness to shed hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Shu Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Wow. What a bunch of homers. Atleast be objective. CJ is too small to be an every down back. Hes a wasted pick and will more than likely leave Dumpalo when his contract is up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Wow. What a bunch of homers. Atleast be objective. CJ is too small to be an every down back. Hes a wasted pick and will more than likely leave Dumpalo when his contract is up There wasn't a single person being non-objective until you got here. And if I'm not mistaken, this thread has nothing to do with Spiller's draft position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Shu Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 There wasn't a single person being non-objective until you got here. And if I'm not mistaken, this thread has nothing to do with Spiller's draft position. Um, yeah ok. All i see is,"CJ needs this," and "CJ needs that.". "CJ will be a good back if...". Look, blind homers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 As a RB, to me the main problem is that CJ stilldoes not hit the hole fast enuf. He's improving but not there yet. He is not a power back who can be expected to make his living breaking tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Um, yeah ok. All i see is,"CJ needs this," and "CJ needs that.". "CJ will be a good back if...". Look, blind homers. Do you know why people are phrasing things that way? Because they're talking about a young NFL running back who may or may not succeed. What they're NOT talking about is the retroactive value of the #9 pick of the 2010 draft. Two separate issues. Draft position becomes irrelevant after the rookie contract is signed. I don't care about the extent to which Spiller is a "bust". I care about whether he can play football. Explain to me where you see a lack of objectivity. And please don't refer to my home town as Dumpalo. I take pride in my heritage and a lot of other posters do as well. A BUFFALO Bills message board clearly isn't the place for that variety of derision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 As a RB, to me the main problem is that CJ stilldoes not hit the hole fast enuf. He's improving but not there yet. He is not a power back who can be expected to make his living breaking tackles. The hole? I didn't see very many holes. The Bills line got pwned most of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The hole? I didn't see very many holes. The Bills line got pwned most of the game. Amazing to think how young that Jets line is, too! Their LB's are middle-career-aged, but with a line like that they will have a long shelf life and can be replaced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Amazing to think how young that Jets line is, too! Their LB's are middle-career-aged, but with a line like that they will have a long shelf life and can be replaced! It's actually kind of sad to compare the Bills line performance to other NFL lines. A Bills running play featured guys trying to zone up and double team a defender and both being blown backwards. The Broncos, for example, could run the same play and lineman where getting to the second level and McGahee was 10 yards down the field before a defender could wave bye-bye at him. PS: I know it's a banged up OL, but they were getting their ***es handed to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Do you know why people are phrasing things that way? Because they're talking about a young NFL running back who may or may not succeed. What they're NOT talking about is the retroactive value of the #9 pick of the 2010 draft. Two separate issues. Draft position becomes irrelevant after the rookie contract is signed. I don't care about the extent to which Spiller is a "bust". I care about whether he can play football. Explain to me where you see a lack of objectivity. And please don't refer to my home town as Dumpalo. I take pride in my heritage and a lot of other posters do as well. A BUFFALO Bills message board clearly isn't the place for that variety of derision. He can't hear you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 He can't hear you... If that means what I think it means, can't blame ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I do not see any improvement in his blocking any more than his running. For example, if I am not mistaken, he whiffed horrifically on one of the Maybin sacks, did he not? He had some good and bad that I saw. Not awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 If that means what I think it means, can't blame ya. talk about worthless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 He had some good and bad that I saw. Not awful. Same here. He's far from a great blocker, but he's also not the same liability in this capacity as he once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 If that means what I think it means, can't blame ya. +1 Thanks SDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 CJ is to TENTATIVE in running the ball as Trent Edwards was to TENTATIVE in throwing the ball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The hole? I didn't see very many holes. The Bills line got pwned most of the game. Easy to say (I expected the comment). I saw several plays where he was behind blocks that were made. I would not go so far as to say he needs to make his own holes to run thru, however if someone said that (as they have) I think I know what they mean. He still does not hit itquick enuf. Not enuf explosion. He has improved tho and possibly the rest of this season will help him for next and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I was disappointed in the play calling. Spiller should not run into the line very often. That's not his strength. He should run sweeps and screens. And yes, he did whiff on one of the Maybin sacks. Right after he and Maybin got into a face shoving match. Too bad, it looks like Maybin got the last laugh on that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 i think cj looked ok out there today. what i think he could benefit most from is experience. if he is out there in different situations he may be able to learn from them and become more comfortable making him react rather than think. we can all see he has all the tools needed for the job, he just seems to be a bit tentative at times. i think he'll eventually be a very good back for us, he just needs some on-the-job training. I agree. If he doesn`t get hurt.Seems to be running harder.His build scares me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The Jets defense was blowing up our line all day, CJ did fine, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I think his biggest flaw is that he doesn't run with any authority. He seems tentative to the hole and, as I said last week, seems like he doesn't want to engage. I will give him credit for being more patient lately. It's a start. GO BILLS!!! This was my thought as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Fair point, but I think for the majority of runs that he got stuffed on, Fred would have been stuffed too. The run blocking up front was pretty bad. At the same time, CJ misread a few blocks as well, so you can't lay it totally on the O-Line. I think the biggest problem with today's running game was the play calling. Chan was calling the most basic plays out there for whatever reason, and none of these plays involved CJ going around the edge. Everything was between the tackles. I think this was a big mistake and I don't really understand it, though it could have been because the interior O-line has barely played with each other and are incredibly immobile. Ie, they wouldn't be able to shift to the edge and get any blocking for CJ. That being said, as good as the Jets are at sealing off the edge, I'd take a few shots anyways, betting that CJ's speed can beat most NFL linebackers around the corner. I'll give you that he can't break tackles, though I'm not sure that can be fixed with any strength training. By all accounts, CJ is one of the hardest working Bills out there, and the guy is jacked. But when a 300-350 lb DT is getting to you untouched, you are going to go down no matter what you do. I think he can put it together, but not sure if he is a 25 touches a game RB with this personnel. Spiller is not the guy to be an every down back. They should never have drafted him at the number 9 spot. I do think he could do well as a change of pace and very explosive back if he had an outstanding offensive line in front of him and he was pared with a big back (220 - 245 lb punishing runner to share the load). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Thats a great point. You're always like "oh allllmost got by him there and he would've been gone" Hate to say it but the homerun hitters don't do as well in NFL as the 6 yard hard hitting guys like Freddy. The other thing about CJ is he doesn't have great game speed. Everyone keeps talking about his blazing speed but I don't see it. He's the perfect college back, but....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 OJ's first couple seasons were pretty mediocre until he got a line that blocked for him. In this regard, Wood likely would have made a difference on many of Spiller's runs up the middle. "So run outside" you say; you need blockers out there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 He can't hear you... But how is he ever gonna get past probie status......lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Yes, I wasn't impressed by the play calling either. Would've liked to see Spiller try to get to the corner a few times. That said, you look around the NFL and there isn't exactly a glut of RBs who make their living outside the hashmarks. Reggie Bush has struggled with the same thing, learning how to play between the tackles. Now, none of this is to say that Spiller can't have a successful NFL career as a role player. But if his aim is to carry the load for a team at RB, this element of his game needs improvement. Personally, I think it's equally about balance as well as strength. Some RBs (Mendenhall comes to mind) have been known to participate in activities like yoga and ballet to improve balance. Sometimes I wonder if Chan is just seeing if Spiller can run inside the tackles, giving him every opportunity to see if he can be a dependable every down back . Just think Chan wants to know what he has before making the final call how to use him (or not) Edited November 28, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Sometimes I wonder if Chan is just seeing if Spiller can run inside the tackles, giving him every opportunity to see if he can be a dependable every down back . Just think Chan wants to know what he has before making the final call how to use him (or not) Are you saying they drafted a "waterbug" to try to convert him into a battering ram? I guess that makes about as much sense as playing Spencer Johnson with his 5.2 40 speed at OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 He just doesn't seem to have the strength to break tackles, and he's not quite elusive enough to avoid contact. Honest to God I've been saying this for a while now right here...I've joked that the next time Spiller breaks a tackle it will be his first...He goes down SO quick to contact it's a little crazy...That's why I never see him being an every Down NFL back...ever...Good NFL backs are tackle-breaking machines...Think about all the tackles Freddie broke just this year! Spiller shows flashes...But that's about it...Only thing is, he can do a couple of thing VERY well...We need to forget about where he was Drafted and let Gailey figure out how he can make an impact on 5-10 plays a Game...Then he can back-up Freddie, or whoever when they go down or need a breather, return punts and kicks, etc... I don't want to see this turn into a Maybin thing where the kid is gone because he can't live up to where he was Drafted...If we had Defensive Coaches worth a crap Maybin would be in Buffalo doing exactly what he does in NY and no more...And The Bills need Pass rush like we need air to breathe...So what if Maybin is half the player they thought they were Drafting...We need that half...The Bills need talent...period...So lets stop running talented Players off and start using their strengths, and hiding their weaknesses, by not putting them in situations to fail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Sometimes I wonder if Chan is just seeing if Spiller can run inside the tackles, giving him every opportunity to see if he can be a dependable every down back . Just think Chan wants to know what he has before making the final call how to use him (or not) So what exactly then were Nix, Gailey, the southern regional scout, and the national scout doing when they scouted him in college? There were four seasons worth of tape and hundreds of carries to go over to determine if he had what it took to run between the tackles. The second regular season after the guy's been drafted is playing things a little behind the curve, wouldn't you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Fair point, but I think for the majority of runs that he got stuffed on, Fred would have been stuffed too. The run blocking up front was pretty bad. At the same time, CJ misread a few blocks as well, so you can't lay it totally on the O-Line. I think the biggest problem with today's running game was the play calling. Chan was calling the most basic plays out there for whatever reason, and none of these plays involved CJ going around the edge. Everything was between the tackles. I think this was a big mistake and I don't really understand it, though it could have been because the interior O-line has barely played with each other and are incredibly immobile. Ie, they wouldn't be able to shift to the edge and get any blocking for CJ. That being said, as good as the Jets are at sealing off the edge, I'd take a few shots anyways, betting that CJ's speed can beat most NFL linebackers around the corner. I'll give you that he can't break tackles, though I'm not sure that can be fixed with any strength training. By all accounts, CJ is one of the hardest working Bills out there, and the guy is jacked. But when a 300-350 lb DT is getting to you untouched, you are going to go down no matter what you do. I think he can put it together, but not sure if he is a 25 touches a game RB with this personnel. I disagree. fred has been one of the best in the league in getting soemthing out of absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I do not see any improvement in his blocking any more than his running. For example, if I am not mistaken, he whiffed horrifically on one of the Maybin sacks, did he not? Yes. On the very next play after Spiller and Maybin exchanged pleasantries. It looked to me like Spiller came up scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Fair point, but I think for the majority of runs that he got stuffed on, Fred would have been stuffed too. Disagree. Fred has that same ability that made Thurman so great - in traffic he finds a small crease, bursts into it and out the other side breaking tackles along the way. Sometimes it's only for 2-3 yards and sometimes he busts it for 15. Spiller, on the other hand, continuously runs into the backs of his linemen for losses and those runs that could go for 15 he gets arm tackled for 4-5. Freddy has s combination of vision, instinct and power that Spiller simply doesn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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