Tom Modrak

[jscap]

For all the draft misses he has had I have to give the guy credit for something: Undrafted free agents. He has a knack for finding these under the radar guys that become impact players.

[Thoner7]

I will give him that, and even the last 4 rounds of the draft. But at some point you have to say "Hey Tom, just focus on the guys who are the late rounders/undrafteds, and I'll find someone else to handle the top rounds"

[Ever Since '86]

I will give him that, and even the last 4 rounds of the draft. But at some point you have to say "Hey Tom, just focus on the guys who are the late rounders/undrafteds, and I'll find someone else to handle the top rounds"

 

hit the nail on the head sir

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

I'm curious what the strategy was for the top rounds in the past, seems as though they were reaching for need (RB in 2007, CB in 2008, Big receiver in 2008, Pass Rush in 2009) perhaps deviating from the board put together by Modrak/scouts. The later round selections, as they're filling in depth, would have been made taking best available. I'm more confident going forward with Buddy and his stated strategy.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm curious what the strategy was for the top rounds in the past, seems as though they were reaching for need (RB in 2007, CB in 2008, Pass Rush in 2009) perhaps deviating from the board put together by Modrak/scouts. The later round selections would have been made taking best available. I'm more confident going forward with Buddy and his stated strategy.

I really don't know why it even needs to be said, but every pick, by every team, in every round, in every year, in every sport, especially pro football, is an argument/choice in the war room over BPA versus BP in position of need. Every team makes both choices at certain times in every draft.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

For all the draft misses he has had I have to give the guy credit for something: Undrafted free agents. He has a knack for finding these under the radar guys that become impact players.

I have assumed there is less involvement by the rest of the front office on an undrafted free agent than the first (and gradually lower) round pick. Another conclusion I draw from what I have seen/heard is Tom Modrak still has a job with the Bills because his recommendations have been better than who we have ended up picking. Just my 2 cents from behind the horse trying to figure out what it ate...

[Nanker]

What's his 40 time?

Hey Buddy. I've heard of him.

Maybe we should sign him - on the cheap.

[Rico]

Tom Modrak

Upside?

None.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

You're assuming that the Bills were selecting players that TM was recommending. I would more think TM's role was to grade out the players, make suggestions, but in the past it seemed that DJ had more final say in who was selected. TM would likely give feedback but from the little bit that has been stated, seemd DJ was the #1 voice on whom to select. RB may have chimed in if a tie breaker vote was needed. Seemd the Bills followed the Bill Parsell's theory as he use to say "If I'm going to cook the meal, let me buy the groceries"

 

That also would follow that on the lower rounds and free agents DJ likely knew less about the players in question so would more defer to TM's choice.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Ed_Roch

[dewey]

None.

There is no upside with Modrak, your not going to win in this league when you keep missing on high draft picks. When they picked AARON [ IVE BEEN PANCAKED ) MAYBIN it was a case of Mike Mamulla syndrome, a great combine workout and one good year at PENN STATE, the REDSKINS did'nt wait a full minute to take BRIAN ORAKPO laughing at the Bills the whole time, guess who went to the pro bowl, not pancake boy. 3 years ago we needed a running back and a cornerback, we take Lynch the JETS TAKE REVIS,missed again Modrak. Now the latest James Hardy. Finding reserves in the free agent market after the draft is great for payroll purposes but your not winning the Super Bowl that way. The Bills have'nt reached the playoffs in years and the lousy draft's are the main reason. MODRAK needs to go.

[Red]

I love these war room replies. You know the ones- it's not 1 persons fault, there are several people involved, etc.

 

All baloney.

 

When the bad stuff hits the fan on the field, who gets the blame? The QB.

 

When the team just plain sucks, who gets the axe? The head coach.

 

When your drafting has just plain rotted for an ENTIRE DECADE....maybe your DIRECTOR OF FREAKIN' SCOUTING needs to get a pink slip.

 

Just an idea....

 

How many 1st round picks, made from 2001-2010, are still with the team? How many picks, from 2-7, are still with the team?

 

From 2000-2005, there were something like 50 picks. What, 4-5 are still with the team? That is not bad; that's abysmal. How many of our 1st round picks in the past decade are still even in the league? Losman just got cut, for gosh sakes. Lynch is probably on the way out.

 

Now, if his recommendations are so good, why has no one in 3-4 different administrations listened to him? You mean to tell me that he is of such high esteem, that Donahoe, Levy, AND Nix don't listen to him? Gregg Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, and Gailey disregard his unput?

 

If his opinion is so valued, you would think somebody in 3 regimes would listen.

 

No, he was brought on by Donahoe and should have left when Tom left. john Guy is gone. Modrak has done nothing to prove continued employment at OBD.

 

Yet he remains.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

There is no upside with Modrak, your not going to win in this league when you keep missing on high draft picks. When they picked AARON [ IVE BEEN PANCAKED ) MAYBIN it was a case of Mike Mamulla syndrome, a great combine workout and one good year at PENN STATE, the REDSKINS did'nt wait a full minute to take BRIAN ORAKPO laughing at the Bills the whole time, guess who went to the pro bowl, not pancake boy. 3 years ago we needed a running back and a cornerback, we take Lynch the JETS TAKE REVIS,missed again Modrak. Now the latest James Hardy. Finding reserves in the free agent market after the draft is great for payroll purposes but your not winning the Super Bowl that way. The Bills have'nt reached the playoffs in years and the lousy draft's are the main reason. MODRAK needs to go.

 

 

I understand the criticism of Modrak, but there is a big revisionist problem here. Does anyone with half a brain think that in 2007 the Bills needed to or were going to draft a CB in the first round, or that not drafting a CB, even if it was Revis, was a bad thing? Jeebus people, the standard rap on the team is that they draft DBs too often!!!!!!!!!! Try to keep up with the crusades, man... do your homework.

[Delete This Account]

i don't hear people complaining about Wood, Levitre and Byrd from last season.

Troup looks like he can play, too.

and then there's this other guy, Spiller, is it?

 

yes, Tom's missed some. but are those his misses alone? in fact, based on some of the players he recommended, and the Bills passed on, it's a question that has some validity. i personally do not think -- and in fact might even know -- that the Maybin and Losman picks were on Tom.

 

and to be fair, it's apparent that Spiller was a consensus pick that included the entire front office, from Chan on up to Mr. Wilson.

 

jw

[Lurker]

For all the draft misses he has had I have to give the guy credit for something: Undrafted free agents. He has a knack for finding these under the radar guys that become impact players.

High round picks are often a function of what the GM/owner wants, more than a function of who the college scouting department thinks is best. Think McGahee, Lynch, Whitner, Parrish, Hardy and on and on. Descretion over signing undrafted college free agents is more often given to the scouting department since these players are low risk/high reward propositions.

 

That said, the NFL is littered with quality undrafted players, so the ability to find them is not exactly hen's teeth...

Edited September 5, 2010 by Lurker

[JESSEFEFFER]

This is the kind of information that I find fascinating but that we rarely get because we aren't "in the loop." The fact that Modrak is still a part of the organization is telling. Usually it takes some kind of disastrous outcome to find out how/why certain decisions got made and by whom.

 

In the case of a college scouting director there would be a huge data set to evaluate. Not just the grades of your picks but the grades that were given all the others. Being good at evaluating players is one thing, making the right decisions is another.

[BreezeMafia]

So i have to go on record and disagree with the Modrak bashing. I started a string last about Tom Modrak. He has been over ruled a number of times in the seasons he has been employed. the most resecnt over ruling - Maybin for Brian Cushing. He was previously over ruled regarding trading up to draft Adrian Peterson or Patrick Willis. He was also over ruled in 2006 when he wanted the Bills to draft Haloti Ngata, Marv instead drafts Donte Whitner. Modrak is a great talent evaluator. i think He and Buddy Nix have crafted back to back solid drafts.

[transient]

This is the kind of information that I find fascinating but that we rarely get because we aren't "in the loop." The fact that Modrak is still a part of the organization is telling. Usually it takes some kind of disastrous outcome to find out how/why certain decisions got made and by whom.

 

In the case of a college scouting director there would be a huge data set to evaluate. Not just the grades of your picks but the grades that were given all the others. Being good at evaluating players is one thing, making the right decisions is another.

 

It would be interesting to get a look at the boards he put together and see where some of these players were graded compared to where we took them, as well as see where he had other players that were not taken by the Bills. If his is not a prominent voice in the war room, then his biggest failing would seem to be not standing up and shouting like a man possessed when they were bypassing obvious talent. Given that Nix is a personnel man and Modrak is still here, it is telling. You also have to think Modrak is smarter than we give him credit for when he declined the opportunity to be GM after Donahoe was fired.

[JohnC]

i don't hear people complaining about Wood, Levitre and Byrd from last season.

Troup looks like he can play, too.

and then there's this other guy, Spiller, is it?

 

yes, Tom's missed some. but are those his misses alone? in fact, based on some of the players he recommended, and the Bills passed on, it's a question that has some validity. i personally do not think -- and in fact might even know -- that the Maybin and Losman picks were on Tom.

 

and to be fair, it's apparent that Spiller was a consensus pick that included the entire front office, from Chan on up to Mr. Wilson.

 

jw

 

Your picking and choosing can't disguise the fact that his body of work over the past decade has been poor. If you are not going to give him the blame for the misses then you shouldn't give him credit for the players who have worked out.

 

There is no doubt that you can't solely blame him for the organizations's drafting miscues. But just because he isn't "solely" responsible doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't "primarily" responsible for our drafting lapses.

 

One of the main reasons why the Bills have been a joke franchise for a very extended period of time is that there is little accountability in this very opague and primitive organization. Since no one is held accountable then failures become institutionalized. When is enough enough. If you can't hold the primary scout accountable for the ranking of draftable players then who the hell is responsible.

[rpcolosi]

For all the draft misses he has had I have to give the guy credit for something: Undrafted free agents. He has a knack for finding these under the radar guys that become impact players.

 

 

its apparent that jauron probably had more control/influences on our draft misses then modrak. modrak/whaley/nix seem to understand football skills and talent while jauron seemed more interested in his kind of players (ie undersized DEs like Maybin).

[sharper802]

None of us know what Modrak has said about any of the draft picks. I personally think it was Donahoe on an ego trip when he traded up for McGahee(although he probably knew about Travis Henry's off field stuff) and taking Roscoe while neglecting both lines. One day it will come out just how much authority DJ and Marv had. Even if Marv was a figurehead, it was on his watch that this franchise sank back to the depths of the mid 80's.

If Modrak is/was as incompetent as this board thinks there is no way Nix or RW keep him this long. Unless he has pictures of RW....

[JohnC]

If Modrak is/was as incompetent as this board thinks there is no way Nix or RW keep him this long. Unless he has pictures of RW....

 

Modrak brought Nix back to the organization last year. It would be very difficult for Nix to fire him.

[BillnutinHouston]

None of us know what Modrak has said about any of the draft picks. I personally think it was Donahoe on an ego trip when he traded up for McGahee(although he probably knew about Travis Henry's off field stuff) and taking Roscoe while neglecting both lines. One day it will come out just how much authority DJ and Marv had. Even if Marv was a figurehead, it was on his watch that this franchise sank back to the depths of the mid 80's.

If Modrak is/was as incompetent as this board thinks there is no way Nix or RW keep him this long. Unless he has pictures of RW....

 

FINALLY I read a post with some sense. Anyone who pretends to know who is responsible for what picks is in dreamland. To quote Jim Mora, "You think you know, but you just....don't....know."

 

Maybe, just maybe, I'll give JW the benefit of the doubt. There MAY be a possibility that he has some knowledge informing his statement. Beyond that, ya'll are just whistling dixie.

[GG]

It's hard to draft in the NFL.

[Delete This Account]

Your picking and choosing can't disguise the fact that his body of work over the past decade has been poor. If you are not going to give him the blame for the misses then you shouldn't give him credit for the players who have worked out.

 

There is no doubt that you can't solely blame him for the organizations's drafting miscues. But just because he isn't "solely" responsible doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't "primarily" responsible for our drafting lapses.

 

One of the main reasons why the Bills have been a joke franchise for a very extended period of time is that there is little accountability in this very opague and primitive organization. Since no one is held accountable then failures become institutionalized. When is enough enough. If you can't hold the primary scout accountable for the ranking of draftable players then who the hell is responsible.

amazing you could fit all those sweeping generalizations into three graphs. but, then again, you seem to have an agenda that needs fulfilling. so off you go.

 

i contend that Tom wasn't primarily responsible for the drafting of some higher picks, particularly Losman, Maybin and McGahee.

i disagree with your suggestion that "no one is held accountable." how can that be, given the team's gone through 5 coaches in 10 years, and three GMs?

who says what players Modrak has ranked, and whether the Bills have followed that board to a T? is it possible that others -- a coach in one occasion, a GM or two on a couple of others -- might have gone off that board? i say that's likely.

 

but what the hell do i know.

 

 

Modrak brought Nix back to the organization last year. It would be very difficult for Nix to fire him.

or maybe Nix respects Tom ... nah, couldn't be that, could it?

 

jw

Edited September 6, 2010 by john wawrow

[eball]

From 2000-2005, there were something like 50 picks. What, 4-5 are still with the team? That is not bad; that's abysmal.

Isn't the average NFL career something like 4-5 years?

[JohnC]

amazing you could fit all those sweeping generalizations into three graphs. but, then again, you seem to have an agenda that needs fulfilling. so off you go.

 

i contend that Tom wasn't primarily responsible for the drafting of some higher picks, particularly Losman, Maybin and McGahee.

i disagree with your suggestion that "no one is held accountable." how can that be, given the team's gone through 5 coaches in 10 years, and three GMs?

who says what players Modrak has ranked, and whether the Bills have followed that board to a T? is it possible that others -- a coach in one occasion, a GM or two on a couple of others -- might have gone off that board? i say that's likely.

 

but what the hell do i know.

 

Do I have an agenda? Of course I do. There is no doubt about it. I have never denied that I hold our outdated owner most responsible for the state of affairs of this struggling franchise. The owner of the Bills has established a very amateurish and disheveled operation. Who is in control? Who is making the decisions? As you described the staff is constantly churning over, yet the results are basically the same. The turnover of staff has little to do with accountability. It is simply a reflection of an owner who is incompetent in regards to managing a franchise.

 

The owner has been centrally involved in the hiring and firing of staff for this franchise. The organizational structure is of his creation. You want to know who is accountable? The boss is.

Edited September 6, 2010 by JohnC

[Delete This Account]

Do I have an agenda? Of course I do. There is no doubt about it. I have never denied that I hold our outdated owner most responsible for the state of affairs of this struggling franchise. The owner of the Bills has established a very amateurish and disheveled operation. Who is in control? Who is making the decisions? As you described the staff is constantly churning over, yet the results are basically the same. The turnover of staff has little to do with accountability. It is simply a reflection of an owner who is incompetent in regards to managing a franchise.

 

The owner has been centrally involved in the hiring and firing of staff for this franchise. The organizational structure is of his creation. You want to know who is accountable? The boss is.

ah, yes. another go at the Ralph is Cheap/Bad Owner post. well-covered ground. this thread is about Modrak, and i've made my points, but you intend to take it to another level. fine.

 

the turnover of staff does have something to do with accountability, and yet you fail to see both sides of the equation while making these sweeping generalizations.

 

there have been mis-steps, many of them, along the way, and Mr. Wilson is not blame-less.

as i've noted on numerous occasions, people have been put in positions with the freedom to do their jobs. i'm specifically referring to Tom Donahoe, Russ Brandon, Jim Overdorf and Dick Jauron. they were given wide-ranging freedom to build this team in the ways they saw fit. in many ways, they are due much of the credit/blame for what's gone on.

 

but you're beginning to argue my point that Tom Modrak, though not blameless, isn't the one at fault. after all, weren't you the one originally emphasizing this point before going off on this new tangent of blaming Mr. Wilson. you can't have it both ways, can you?

 

in fact, there appears to be a growing consensus that maybe, just maybe, the Bills might be turning a positive corner with Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey in charge. that, of course, remains to be seen. however, if that's the case, who then gets credit for making that decision: the fans, who wanted Cowher or Shanahan?

 

just wondering, because your scattershot approach is proving to be a little off target, eh?

 

jw

[ChasBB]

I question how much authority Modrak really had with the final selections in the past. Seems to me they operated more by committee and it's possible Russ played a more influential role in the selection process than we realize. I mean, do we really know?

[ChasBB]

Isn't the average NFL career something like 4-5 years?

Yep, looking at the number of players that are still here from 2000-2005 is kind of absurd. You could probably look at ANY NFL roster from 2000-2005 and be hard-pressed to find more than a handful of players remaining. The turnover is much greater. The average NFL career is not even 4-5 years -- it is only 3 1/2 years.

Edited September 6, 2010 by ChasBB

[Thurman#1]

For all the draft misses he has had I have to give the guy credit for something: Undrafted free agents. He has a knack for finding these under the radar guys that become impact players.

 

 

 

Actually, that's one of the main arguments showing that Modrak's not in control. You know that the scouts are in control of the UDFAs, because nobody but the scouts has the time to research those guys. Whereas, especially with the top two rounds or so, everyone, us included, thinks they're an expert, and the Jaurons, Russes and Mr. Wilsons of the world probably think so too and overrule the scouts.

 

Why else would we have more success later than earlier?

[Bob in STL]

For all the draft misses he has had I have to give the guy credit for something: Undrafted free agents. He has a knack for finding these under the radar guys that become impact players.

 

The misses may not even be Modrak. Who says the Director of College Scouting picks the players in the draft?

 

Modrak evaluates and recommends. We don't actaully know how many times Modrak has been blown off or listened too.

 

From the time of Donahoe's departure until this year the draft was been lead by a committee consisting of Brandon-Levy-Jauron. Wilson is involved in the first pick. He likes to know what is going on and he wants the option to concur with it or direct otherwise. It is Ralph's team.

 

Nix had a lot of say about last years draft and he clearly went on record in distancing himself from the Maybin pick. This year he had full control but with Ralph's presence you wonder if anyone ever really does.

 

Given all of this I think it is impossibe to evaluate Modrak. He is well respected around the league and if Buffalo fired him he would get a job somewhere else for sure.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Bob in STL

[bkc]

the guy gets a bad rap. he doesnt pick the players. He scouts them . If a coach values speed over all else LIKE (dickie j you get guys like leodias and maybin). The fact that the late rounders and free agents are on the GM'S radar is a tribute to Modrak and his staff.

[Thurman#1]

I love these war room replies. You know the ones- it's not 1 persons fault, there are several people involved, etc.

 

All baloney.

 

When the bad stuff hits the fan on the field, who gets the blame? The QB.

 

When the team just plain sucks, who gets the axe? The head coach.

 

When your drafting has just plain rotted for an ENTIRE DECADE....maybe your DIRECTOR OF FREAKIN' SCOUTING needs to get a pink slip.

 

Just an idea....

 

 

 

 

It all seems so clear. If he actually was responsible for these picks, if he pulled the trigger, or if he had recommended all these guys ... can you think of any reason, any reason at all that he would still be here? I can't. You can't. Frankly, nobody could. If it were that black and white, he would be gone.

 

That's proof enough right there that the guy pulling the strings doesn't blame Modrak. And that tells you that Modrak's record of picks isn't as bad as our drafting would make you think.

 

So in answer to your question ... when your drafting has just plain rotted for an ENTIRE DECADE, who gets the blame? If your director of scouting's recommendations had been taken, then the director of scouting should get the blame. But if your director of scouting's recommendations have been ignored fairly often, then the guy(s) who pulled the trigger should be gone. And looking at the record, it's obvious that that's what has happened. Trigger puller after trigger puller is gone. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

I will give him that, and even the last 4 rounds of the draft. But at some point you have to say "Hey Tom, just focus on the guys who are the late rounders/undrafteds, and I'll find someone else to handle the top rounds"

 

 

So you figure that what's happening is that he's missing the target again and again when he's aiming at refrigerator from 20 feet and yet hitting the target much more when he's aiming at matchboxes from 50 feet? That's what makes most sense to you, logically?

 

Even though you can't see who is actually throwing the darts, you figure that's more logical than the possibility that someone else (and we know for sure that there are people with the power to take any darts out of his hands) has been shooting at the fridges, figuring anyone could hit them?

 

Have you not heard of Occam's Razor?

[Nanker]

I love these war room replies. You know the ones- it's not 1 persons fault, there are several people involved, etc.

 

All baloney.

When the bad stuff hits the fan on the field, who gets the blame? The QB.

When the team just plain sucks, who gets the axe? The head coach.

 

When your drafting has just plain rotted for an ENTIRE DECADE....maybe your DIRECTOR OF FREAKIN' SCOUTING needs to get a pink slip.

Just an idea....

How many 1st round picks, made from 2001-2010, are still with the team? How many picks, from 2-7, are still with the team?

From 2000-2005, there were something like 50 picks. What, 4-5 are still with the team? That is not bad; that's abysmal. How many of our 1st round picks in the past decade are still even in the league? Losman just got cut, for gosh sakes. Lynch is probably on the way out.

Now, if his recommendations are so good, why has no one in 3-4 different administrations listened to him? You mean to tell me that he is of such high esteem, that Donahoe, Levy, AND Nix don't listen to him? Gregg Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, and Gailey disregard his unput?

If his opinion is so valued, you would think somebody in 3 regimes would listen.

No, he was brought on by Donahoe and should have left when Tom left. john Guy is gone. Modrak has done nothing to prove continued employment at OBD.

Yet he remains.

 

Here's a quick c&p from my response to your same question in another thread:

2001 Aaron Schobel - would be, but he retired - sorry he disappointed you

Nate Clements - still playing in SF - but the FO refused to overpay his azz (Modrak's fault somehow this?)

2002 Mike Williams - Donna-ho gets the credit for picking him over the oh-so-virtuous McKinnie

Josh Reed - Hey he's available, I've heard of him. Buddy - re-sign him!

Ryan Denny - Let go this year after 7 years on the squad

2003 Wilis McGahee -another Donna-Ho reach around

Chris Kelsay - still on the team

2004 Lee Evans - still on the team

JP Losman - Hey he's available, I've heard of him. Buddy - re-sign him!

2005 Roscoe Parrish - still on the team

2006 Donte Whitner - still on the team

John McCargo - still on the team

2007 Marshawn Lynch - still on the team

Paul Posluszny - still on the team

2008 Leodis McKelvin - still on the team

James-I-Can't-Stay-Healthy Hardy, just let go hours ago

2009 Aaron Maybin - still on the team

Eric Wood - still on the team

2010 CJ Spiller - still on the team but probably a bust

Torell Troup - still on the team through some miracle of God, no doubt

 

So, to answer your burning question, 12.

That's not too bad actually, when you consider the average career of an NFL player is about 3-4 years.

[Red]

i don't hear people complaining about Wood, Levitre and Byrd from last season.

Troup looks like he can play, too.

and then there's this other guy, Spiller, is it?

 

yes, Tom's missed some. but are those his misses alone? in fact, based on some of the players he recommended, and the Bills passed on, it's a question that has some validity. i personally do not think -- and in fact might even know -- that the Maybin and Losman picks were on Tom.

 

and to be fair, it's apparent that Spiller was a consensus pick that included the entire front office, from Chan on up to Mr. Wilson.

 

jw

 

Mr. Wawrow,

 

Truly, you doth jest.

 

'Tom's missed some'???!??!?

 

When did Modrak take over as Director of Scouting? 2001?

 

Go back and look at all of the players drafted from 2001-2010. How many are still with the team? Still in the league? Pro Bowlers?

 

Go back and look at all of the Top 3 rounds we have drafted in. How many panned out this decade? How many are still with the team? Ever started? Still in the league?

 

Bottom line: if the offense stinks, everyone wants the head of the QB. If the team stinks, everyone wants the coaches head. If the drafts have stunk to high heaven since Modrak came on board (with Donahoe and Guy, who have since both thankfully departed, nonetheless), then why should not the DIRECTOR of college scouting be gone too?

 

And to counter your good draft picks: Troup, Spiller, Wood, Levitre, and Bryd can all be indicative of Nix, since they have all been drafted since he arrived at OBD.

 

And I'm growing tired of this 'war room' decision argument. Regardless of who makes the call or who the "consensus" is, the coaches, owner, management, etc all have to get the information from somebody. That somebody is Modrak; or scouts employed- and thus supported by Modrak.

 

Those players drafted in the later rounds in the earlier part of the decade should be atleast solid players on the CURRENT roster. There should be atleast a core of players to build around.

 

Modrak, if not in title alone, has missed more than hit during his tenure at OBD,...er...Jacksonville. He's a Donahoe guy who keeps getting a check despite an abysmal record this decade. He should have been on the 1st train out w/Donahoe. Or atleast w/Guy.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Red

[Red]

Here's a quick c&p from my response to your same question in another thread:

2001 Aaron Schobel - would be, but he retired - sorry he disappointed you

Nate Clements - still playing in SF - but the FO refused to overpay his azz (Modrak's fault somehow this?)

2002 Mike Williams - Donna-ho gets the credit for picking him over the oh-so-virtuous McKinnie

Josh Reed - Hey he's available, I've heard of him. Buddy - re-sign him!

Ryan Denny - Let go this year after 7 years on the squad

2003 Wilis McGahee -another Donna-Ho reach around

Chris Kelsay - still on the team

2004 Lee Evans - still on the team

JP Losman - Hey he's available, I've heard of him. Buddy - re-sign him!

2005 Roscoe Parrish - still on the team

2006 Donte Whitner - still on the team

John McCargo - still on the team

2007 Marshawn Lynch - still on the team

Paul Posluszny - still on the team

2008 Leodis McKelvin - still on the team

James-I-Can't-Stay-Healthy Hardy, just let go hours ago

2009 Aaron Maybin - still on the team

Eric Wood - still on the team

2010 CJ Spiller - still on the team but probably a bust

Torell Troup - still on the team through some miracle of God, no doubt

 

So, to answer your burning question, 12.

That's not too bad actually, when you consider the average career of an NFL player is about 3-4 years.

 

Your banal attempts at sarcasm fall far short of the mark.

 

I notice that your referenced players from the years 2001-2006 are a bit, shall we say, light? In fact, we drafted close to 50 players, and we can only keep 1 or 2. Out of 50? I don't think it would take Mel Kiper that this is horrible drafting.

 

And you obviously are missing the point in what I am arguing. So Josh Reed is available. So what? So is JP Losman. The fact that THEY ARE AVAILABLE states that the talent is just not there to earn a roster spot. Meaning: They ain't good enough. And how long were they on our roster?

 

As far as the others you mention- Williams is a colossal bust, McGahee is a colossal a$$, Clements was good- but had crazy salary demands, Denney was never good enough and would not make it on any roster other than ours, Kelsay is overpaid for too little production, Losman needs no further comment, Whitner has yet to prove on the field what his mouth keeps telling us, McCargo for gosh sakes was FREAKIN' TRADED then the deal fell apart because of his poor health, Lynch is currently listed as the 3rd running back on the depth chart, Poz can't put a full season together, Hardy is a terrible disappointment considering his draft position, and Maybin is a 1st round "project".

 

None of this bothers you? 1st round picks are meant to be instant starters. Fresh blood to a franchise. Do teams always strike it big w/1st round draft picks? Ofcourse not, nor is that what I am insinuating.

 

However, our wasted high round picks have handicapped the franchise. We are in this position precisely because we have suffered from a massive LACK of infusion of talent in the past decade. If you think otherwise, none of this will make any difference to you.

 

In the past 2 years, we have finally seen some signs of life. But, coincidentally this is also when Nix came back. Wood, Levitre, Bryd are all last season. What, Modrak suddenly woke up and decided to scout players? C'mon.

 

Spiller is excitement that we have needed for a decade. No brainer. What about Shawn Nelson? Is he another boner scouting job by Tom Modrak?

 

Parrish was a good selection IMO, but we have had to wait until the Gailey regime arrived to finally use him right. I've loved Schobel. But if you draft 12 players and only get 2 of merit, that's pretty bad scouting and drafting.

 

All I am trying to say is that I want all of our picks to be stars. I know thats completely unrealistic. But I want the Bills to succeed. When we look at our picks of the past 10 years, you would have to be an idiot to think that we have drafted well, and our team is rife w/talent that was scouted and developed by the Bills organization.

 

How many Pro Bowl players are on the Bills roster that were scouted by Modrak? Lynch is another DUI or fair trade on his way out the door.

 

Modrak does not need your defense, nor should he find it. The record speaks for itself.

[ChasBB]

The only thing I have ever heard definitively about the subject was a post draft interview Marv Levy did the year they drafted Kyle Williams. Marv mentioned that he wanted Kyle in the fourth but was over-ruled by DJ and TM who wanted D Wright. Luckily for us Kyle was still there a round later.

That's an interesting bit of info. It does still suggest that Modrak was not solely in charge, but that decisions were made by committee. I thought Wright would work out, too, but not the case.

[Red]

It all seems so clear. If he actually was responsible for these picks, if he pulled the trigger, or if he had recommended all these guys ... can you think of any reason, any reason at all that he would still be here? I can't. You can't. Frankly, nobody could. If it were that black and white, he would be gone.

 

That's proof enough right there that the guy pulling the strings doesn't blame Modrak. And that tells you that Modrak's record of picks isn't as bad as our drafting would make you think.

 

So in answer to your question ... when your drafting has just plain rotted for an ENTIRE DECADE, who gets the blame? If your director of scouting's recommendations had been taken, then the director of scouting should get the blame. But if your director of scouting's recommendations have been ignored fairly often, then the guy(s) who pulled the trigger should be gone. And looking at the record, it's obvious that that's what has happened. Trigger puller after trigger puller is gone. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

 

 

Hardly.

 

Why do we even need Modrak then, if his recommendations are only going to be ignored? How valuable, then, is his information if no one listens or respects (and ultimately acts) on his advice? And where are these "guy(s)" who pull the trigger getting their information on college prospects from? Isn't it the Director of Scouting that is responsible for compiling the information and ratings on players so that the "guy(s)" pulling the trigger can make informed decisions? Or do these "guy(s)" just spin a bottle, and select their player that way?

 

C'mon.

 

If what you are suggesting is true, then based upon his lack of possessing any information worthy of retaining he should be fired. Your argument proves him to be useless.

[Ramius]

The only thing I have ever heard definitively about the subject was a post draft interview Marv Levy did the year they drafted Kyle Williams. Marv mentioned that he wanted Kyle in the fourth but was over-ruled by DJ and TM who wanted D Wright. Luckily for us Kyle was still there a round later.

 

Sorry, wrong on 2 counts. Williams was taken in the 2006 draft, and Wright was taken in 2007. Also, it was rumored that ralph was responsible for the Wright pick, not Modrak.

 

Anyone that is claiming Modrak is responsible for the draft misses, because he's the director of college scouting, obviously has never had a boss completely ignore their recommendations and do whatever they want.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Sorry, wrong on 2 counts. Williams was taken in the 2006 draft, and Wright was taken in 2007. Also, it was rumored that ralph was responsible for the Wright pick, not Modrak.

 

Anyone that is claiming Modrak is responsible for the draft misses, because he's the director of college scouting, obviously has never had a boss completely ignore their recommendations and do whatever they want.

My fault, must have remembered incorrectly. I'll see if I can find the clip.