Small Consolation

[C.Biscuit97]

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives...agles-line.html

 

The Eagles traded for Jason Peters to replace Thomas, now with Jacksonville.

A change of scenery has not helped Peters, who struggled with Buffalo last season. Peters has allowed four sacks in seven games this season and 15 1/2 sacks in his last 20 games.

 

A couple things:

 

1) It doesn't change the fact that our oline still sucks right now. But IMO, our record would be the exact same with Peters. Plus, our oline sucked last year with expensive vets. I'd rather take lumps with young guys who are learning rather than pay JP, DD, & LW $22 million to be slightly better.

 

2) It's completely petty but I want Peters to fail terribly. He screwed us over. I don't blame him for trying to get paid but I blame the way he handled it. IMO, this trade of an overrated, injured plagued, not brilliant player for 3 players (Wood, Nelson, and a 6th rounder this year) and saying $10 million will be a win for us.

[CodeMonkey]

I can't argue with anything you said.

[wonderbread]

I can't argue with anything you said.

nor can I.

 

although I would like to point out that with the $$ Ralph saved by switching to geico he could have eaten Jaurons contract and get a real coach and OC.

[billsfreak]

I am sure he is still lazy and thinks he is better than he really is too.

[dave mcbride]

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives...agles-line.html

 

 

 

A couple things:

 

1) It doesn't change the fact that our oline still sucks right now. But IMO, our record would be the exact same with Peters. Plus, our oline sucked last year with expensive vets. I'd rather take lumps with young guys who are learning rather than pay JP, DD, & LW $22 million to be slightly better.

 

2) It's completely petty but I want Peters to fail terribly. He screwed us over. I don't blame him for trying to get paid but I blame the way he handled it. IMO, this trade of an overrated, injured plagued, not brilliant player for 3 players (Wood, Nelson, and a 6th rounder this year) and saying $10 million will be a win for us.

I'm not defending Peters, but is giving up 4 sacks in nearly a half season really all that bad? The big pressure point on an o-line is on its left side because it's the blind side, and when a team gives up 25-30 sacks per year total, that's actually really good. For instance, the Bills have suffered under 38 sacks once in the past decade -- 2007 (26 sacks allowed, which incidentally was Peters' one truly great season in Buffalo). The other years are generally in the mid-40s and occasionally in the 50s (dreadful). The sacks have to come from somewhere, and teams do put their best pass rushers at the RDE spot (or the ROLB spot if its a 3-4). I mean, the sacks have to be assigned to someone.

 

Moreover, the Eagles are third in points and 15th in yards, and they've been without their starting QB for a couple of games. Plus they're fifth overall in rushing yards per attempt despite missing Westbrook for 2+ games.

[C.Biscuit97]

I'm not defending Peters, but is giving up 4 sacks in nearly a half season really all that bad? The big pressure point on an o-line is on its left side because it's the blind side, and when a team gives up 25-30 sacks per year total, that's actually really good. For instance, the Bills have suffered under 38 sacks once in the past decade -- 2007 (26 sacks allowed, which incidentally was Peters' one truly great season in Buffalo). The other years are generally in the mid-40s and occasionally in the 50s (dreadful). The sacks have to come from somewhere, and teams do put their best pass rushers at the RDE spot (or the ROLB spot if its a 3-4). I mean, the sacks have to be assigned to someone.

 

Moreover, the Eagles are third in points and 15th in yards, and they've been without their starting QB for a couple of games. Plus they're fifth overall in rushing yards per attempt despite missing Westbrook for 2+ games.

 

Fair enough. But it's 6 games (he got hurt early in the Raiders game). He has also given up 3 in last 2 games against division teams (Giants and Redskins). The other teams the Eagles have played: Bucs, PAnthers, Chiefs, Saints (allowed a sack).

 

Don't get me wrong. He is a good runblocker. But I think long term it will be a better move for us and the myth of Peters being an elite LT is just that.

[dave mcbride]

Fair enough. But it's 6 games (he got hurt early in the Raiders game). He has also given up 3 in last 2 games against division teams (Giants and Redskins). The other teams the Eagles have played: Bucs, PAnthers, Chiefs, Saints (allowed a sack).

 

Don't get me wrong. He is a good runblocker. But I think long term it will be a better move for us and the myth of Peters being an elite LT is just that.

I'll tell you what -- let's wait and see where things stand once the season is over before making an evaluation.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I'll tell you what -- let's wait and see where things stand once the season is over before making an evaluation.

He's been playing on a bad ankle according to the injury reports.

[Nanker]

Let's not mention that Philly likely began tampering with him through his agent two years ago - letting them know what they'd pay him. That's right, I said tampering... and don't ask me for a link. There's not an Internet link to everything, but there is a link to everything. Screw Peters, his agent and the EEEGirls.

[PushthePile]

Let's not mention that Philly likely began tampering with him through his agent two years ago - letting them know what they'd pay him. That's right, I said tampering... and don't ask me for a link. There's not an Internet link to everything, but there is a link to everything. Screw Peters, his agent and the EEEGirls.

I need a link or I don't believe you.

[Nanker]

I need a link or I don't believe you.

The best I could do on such short notice

[BuffaloBlood]

Peters could have been a dominant LT if he wouldnt have started drinking his own Kool-Aid. The guy was talented as hell but even in his first Pro Bowl year he was still raw and had a lot of learning to do. If he would have realized that he still had a long way to go and would have kept his nose to the grindstone he would have developed into a dominant LT........ but nooooo he saw his vote to the Pro Bowl as a message that he was done in his development and could now coast along on his talent alone. That has now blown up in his face. Yes 6 sacks in half a season out of your top paid LT is bad. A top end LT should not let up more than a handful of sacks in a BAD year. He is not that guy.... and thats his fault because he could have been.

[C.Biscuit97]

I'll tell you what -- let's wait and see where things stand once the season is over before making an evaluation.

 

Well to be completely fair, you need to wait really 3 years at least to see how our rookies come along. But still Peters is a vet who supposedly is an elite player (at least, he is paid like one). If I was an Eagles fan, I'd want instant results. But you are correct overall.

[C.Biscuit97]

He's been playing on a bad ankle according to the injury reports.

 

Peters' injured??? Shocking.

 

Injuries are part of determining a player's worth. And lately, Peters seems to get a lot of them. I don't think it is a coincidence.

[Doc]

He's been playing on a bad ankle according to the injury reports.

Yeah, and everyone else is 100% healthy.

[Boom Jam]

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives...agles-line.html

 

 

 

A couple things:

 

1) It doesn't change the fact that our oline still sucks right now. But IMO, our record would be the exact same with Peters. Plus, our oline sucked last year with expensive vets. I'd rather take lumps with young guys who are learning rather than pay JP, DD, & LW $22 million to be slightly better.

 

2) It's completely petty but I want Peters to fail terribly. He screwed us over. I don't blame him for trying to get paid but I blame the way he handled it. IMO, this trade of an overrated, injured plagued, not brilliant player for 3 players (Wood, Nelson, and a 6th rounder this year) and saying $10 million will be a win for us.

 

I agree. Imagine what this line will be like should the front office do the unthinkable and draft Charles Brown.

[PromoTheRobot]

I'm not defending Peters, but is giving up 4 sacks in nearly a half season really all that bad?

Actually yes...if you claim to be the best LT in football and ask for a record deal. I mean your average LT can give up 4 sacks in 6 games. So what are you paying $11M a year for? To watch him in the pro bowl?

 

PTR

[Thoner7]

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives...agles-line.html

 

 

 

A couple things:

 

1) It doesn't change the fact that our oline still sucks right now. But IMO, our record would be the exact same with Peters. Plus, our oline sucked last year with expensive vets. I'd rather take lumps with young guys who are learning rather than pay JP, DD, & LW $22 million to be slightly better.

 

2) It's completely petty but I want Peters to fail terribly. He screwed us over. I don't blame him for trying to get paid but I blame the way he handled it. IMO, this trade of an overrated, injured plagued, not brilliant player for 3 players (Wood, Nelson, and a 6th rounder this year) and saying $10 million will be a win for us.

 

My worthless opinion on the Peters trade scenario:

 

Peters is the best LT in the game when he cares/tries. Peters is a worthless POS because he only wanted money and does not care or try. Its too bad he doesnt love football, because he could have been great. I did not want him on this team.

 

I love Eric Wood. He is my favortie player onthe team. I have been trying to buy a jersey of his from China but none of them know what I am talkin about.

 

I cant believe the Bills FO wanted a 4 and 6 round pick instead of a 3rd? I cant believe we got their second 1st and not 1st.

 

The Bills made a huge mistake not getting an LT. This mistake cause us to lose another T - Walker - who was solid on the right side.

 

All in all I am glad we ditched Peters, but not exactly happy with how the entire thing panned out. Now I would be really please if we added some (plural) young Ts this draft/off season./

[BuffaloBill]

This topic is just so tired. A reflection on how poorly our season has gone IMO. If the Bills were playing well this would have been long ago forgotten.

 

Bottom line for me is that the Peter's situation is one among many where the Bills demonstrated they are incompetently managed. Yes, maybe the Bills got the "better" end of this one specific trade (hard to say absolutley) but so what when you look at it in the big picture. The fact simply is that the Bills o-line is an absolute mess and as a result this season has been pissed away.

 

Poor o-line play has also left open the question - do we neeed to draft a QB yet again? Don't get me wrong, not defending TE but it is possible to argue that maybe he would be a servicable QB if he had a decent line that also supported a decent run game. At the end of the day I assume we will and should draft another QB so we once again suffer through the "learning curve" next season.

 

I simply pray that we get a truly solid GM in the off-season.

[MarkyMannn]

You Peters bashers are in big trouble once Thurman1 and Mickey see this thread

[MRW]

This topic is just so tired. A reflection on how poorly our season has gone IMO. If the Bills were playing well this would have been long ago forgotten.

 

Bottom line for me is that the Peter's situation is one among many where the Bills demonstrated they are incompetently managed. Yes, maybe the Bills got the "better" end of this one specific trade (hard to say absolutley) but so what when you look at it in the big picture. The fact simply is that the Bills o-line is an absolute mess and as a result this season has been pissed away.

 

Poor o-line play has also left open the question - do we neeed to draft a QB yet again? Don't get me wrong, not defending TE but it is possible to argue that maybe he would be a servicable QB if he had a decent line that also supported a decent run game. At the end of the day I assume we will and should draft another QB so we once again suffer through the "learning curve" next season.

 

I simply pray that we get a truly solid GM in the off-season.

Good post. If Brandon hadn't set out to sour things with Peters and they'd made an actual effort to keep him on board when he held out, how different would things look now? LT Peters - LG Levitre - C Hangartner - RG Butler - RT Walker looks a lot better to me than that mess that's out there (of course, you'd have to sub in Butler's backup at guard, but even so...). So everyone can talk until they're blue in the face about how happy they are Peters is gone, but to me the bottom line is we had a line that was adequate at the tackles and weak up the middle and subbed in one that is an absolute disaster at the tackles and a work in progress in the middle.

[C.Biscuit97]

Good post. If Brandon hadn't set out to sour things with Peters and they'd made an actual effort to keep him on board when he held out, how different would things look now? LT Peters - LG Levitre - C Hangartner - RG Butler - RT Walker looks a lot better to me than that mess that's out there (of course, you'd have to sub in Butler's backup at guard, but even so...). So everyone can talk until they're blue in the face about how happy they are Peters is gone, but to me the bottom line is we had a line that was adequate at the tackles and weak up the middle and subbed in one that is an absolute disaster at the tackles and a work in progress in the middle.

 

1) So you're ok with paying a guy who acted like a child $11 million to give up 4 sacks in 6 games? I'm not.

 

2) Honestly, what difference would Peters have made with our team? My opinion is that it won't have have made much.

[MRW]

1) So you're ok with paying a guy who acted like a child $11 million to give up 4 sacks in 6 games? I'm not.

 

2) Honestly, what difference would Peters have made with our team? My opinion is that it won't have have made much.

As opposed to watching Bell get blown up play after play? Yeah, I think I'd cope, especially because it's not my money.

 

Talking about whether Peters is overpaid only makes sense to me if you think the Bills replaced him with someone who is at least ready to play LT at a basic level in the pros. They didn't, and so I would say yes, paying $10 or $11 million for a guy who is an actual NFL player would be a vast improvement.

 

As to your second point, no one player would put this Bills team over the top. Years of poor decisions have left them thin at lots of positions, with even the starters being at best good players as opposed to difference makers. By trading Peters, the Bills created another hole they will need to fill with a high draft pick, leaving them unable to draft players to help at other positions of need like LB, DT, or QB.

[BuffaloBill]

1) So you're ok with paying a guy who acted like a child $11 million to give up 4 sacks in 6 games? I'm not.

 

2) Honestly, what difference would Peters have made with our team? My opinion is that it won't have have made much.

 

 

Go back to my post that he was commenting on. Who gives a flying F K about Peters any more? The deal is done.

 

My point was simply to say that the way the Bills handled Peters is one among many acts of stupidity that have left the organization in a mess. It's hard to argue with the results - the Bills are not competitive, they have a weak roster and the offensive line is an absolute disaster.

[Tcali]

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives...agles-line.html

 

 

 

A couple things:

 

1) It doesn't change the fact that our oline still sucks right now. But IMO, our record would be the exact same with Peters. Plus, our oline sucked last year with expensive vets. I'd rather take lumps with young guys who are learning rather than pay JP, DD, & LW $22 million to be slightly better.

 

2) It's completely petty but I want Peters to fail terribly. He screwed us over. I don't blame him for trying to get paid but I blame the way he handled it. IMO, this trade of an overrated, injured plagued, not brilliant player for 3 players (Wood, Nelson, and a 6th rounder this year) and saying $10 million will be a win for us.

agree...i think we made the right moves..and knew that our O line was gonna take its lumps

[Peter]

Where are you guys getting the 4 sacks allowed figure?

 

According to profootbalfocus.com, he has allowed 2 sacks, 1 QB hit, and 3 pressures.

 

PFF - Tackles stats and ratings

 

By contrast, our left tackle (the one who has started the majority of games), has 5 sacks, 5 QB hits, and 17 pressures.

 

For comparison purposes, Joe Thomas has 2 sacks, 3 QB hits, and 4 pressures. Jake Long has 3 sacks, 2 QB hits, and 4 pressures.

 

You can go to the linked site to get the stats for all of the tackles.

[John from Riverside]

Dont you guys think it is time to let the whole Jason Peters thing go?

 

- We aren't getting any more picks out of the deal

 

- Jason Peters isn't coming back we dont want him back and he doesn't want to come back

 

- We now have Eric Wood and Shawn Nelson

 

Its over.......

[BillsVet]

Where are you guys getting the 4 sacks allowed figure?

 

Whichever source states that Peters has given up the most sacks is what they'll use. And it's because they eat up the PR from OBD regarding a player who went from UDFA ST'er to 2nd team All-Pro. The way some talk around here, it's their money that Peters was earning.

[RyanC883]

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives...agles-line.html

 

 

 

A couple things:

 

1) It doesn't change the fact that our oline still sucks right now. But IMO, our record would be the exact same with Peters. Plus, our oline sucked last year with expensive vets. I'd rather take lumps with young guys who are learning rather than pay JP, DD, & LW $22 million to be slightly better.

 

2) It's completely petty but I want Peters to fail terribly. He screwed us over. I don't blame him for trying to get paid but I blame the way he handled it. IMO, this trade of an overrated, injured plagued, not brilliant player for 3 players (Wood, Nelson, and a 6th rounder this year) and saying $10 million will be a win for us.

 

Good post. Much better to suck with rookies would could become solid than to throw lots of $$ at vets for the same result.

[dave mcbride]

Where are you guys getting the 4 sacks allowed figure?

 

According to profootbalfocus.com, he has allowed 2 sacks, 1 QB hit, and 3 pressures.

 

PFF - Tackles stats and ratings

 

By contrast, our left tackle (the one who has started the majority of games), has 5 sacks, 5 QB hits, and 17 pressures.

 

For comparison purposes, Joe Thomas has 2 sacks, 3 QB hits, and 4 pressures. Jake Long has 3 sacks, 2 QB hits, and 4 pressures.

 

You can go to the linked site to get the stats for all of the tackles.

My guess is that the erroneous number comes from the fact that Peters' replacement in the Raiders game allowed a couple of sacks. They get assigned to LT,and lazy amateur statisticians then assign them to Peters.

[evilbuffalobob]

I believe our makeshift line only gave-up one sack last week. ... what was it... 2 sacks the previous week. Helps having a Qb with a medium set of balls.

 

As I've previously mentioned, perhaps out run game would be better if our receivers might exert the slightest iota of effort downfield.

 

At any rate- Fugk Peters.

[Cynical]

Whichever source states that Peters has given up the most sacks is what they'll use. And it's because they eat up the PR from OBD regarding a player who went from UDFA ST'er to 2nd team All-Pro. The way some talk around here, it's their money that Peters was earning.

 

Anything to keep bashing Peters.

What a POS for allowing 2 sacks. What an overpaid POS for being ranked about the 7th best OT in the league.

The Bills are SOOOOOOOOOOO much better with his replacement Bell. And to think, Bell is ranked only the 75th best.

FIRST from the bottom baby!!

 

WOO HOO!!!

 

Take that you Peter lovers.

[TheChimp]

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives...agles-line.html

 

 

 

A couple things:

 

1) It doesn't change the fact that our oline still sucks right now. But IMO, our record would be the exact same with Peters. Plus, our oline sucked last year with expensive vets. I'd rather take lumps with young guys who are learning rather than pay JP, DD, & LW $22 million to be slightly better.

 

2) It's completely petty but I want Peters to fail terribly. He screwed us over. I don't blame him for trying to get paid but I blame the way he handled it. IMO, this trade of an overrated, injured plagued, not brilliant player for 3 players (Wood, Nelson, and a 6th rounder this year) and saying $10 million will be a win for us.

What he said.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Anything to keep bashing Peters.

What a POS for allowing 2 sacks. What an overpaid POS for being ranked about the 7th best OT in the league.

The Bills are SOOOOOOOOOOO much better with his replacement Bell. And to think, Bell is ranked only the 75th best.

FIRST from the bottom baby!!

 

WOO HOO!!!

 

Take that you Peter lovers.

Actually, it is worse than that. If you list all OT in the NFL, Tinker Bell is dead last at #105.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1

 

OTOH, Langston Walker was rated #110 last year. Peters? He was 80th. So, it looks like the wishes that he tanks this season as much as last aren't going so well (at least from this data).

 

Aaron Maybin is ranked 103rd at DE. Oher? 12th among all OTs.

[BADOLBILZ]

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives...agles-line.html

 

 

 

A couple things:

 

1) It doesn't change the fact that our oline still sucks right now. But IMO, our record would be the exact same with Peters. Plus, our oline sucked last year with expensive vets. I'd rather take lumps with young guys who are learning rather than pay JP, DD, & LW $22 million to be slightly better.

 

2) It's completely petty but I want Peters to fail terribly. He screwed us over. I don't blame him for trying to get paid but I blame the way he handled it. IMO, this trade of an overrated, injured plagued, not brilliant player for 3 players (Wood, Nelson, and a 6th rounder this year) and saying $10 million will be a win for us.

 

Yeah, why blame the people responsible for a decade of boring, pathetic football when you can displace on the latest good player that they dumped at the expense of performance at the line of scrimmage? Would they have a better record? Probably not because the head coach that you have vehemently defended runs a slack ship, hires bad coordinators, etc.. Still think the only difference between Jauron and Belichick is Tom Brady at QB?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Yeah, why blame the people responsible for a decade of boring, pathetic football when you can displace on the latest good player that they dumped at the expense of performance at the line of scrimmage? Would they have a better record? Probably not because the head coach that you have vehemently defended runs a slack ship, hires bad coordinators, etc.. Still think the only difference between Jauron and Belichick is Tom Brady at QB?

Come at that from the opposite direction. If Tom Brady arrived today to QB this team, how much different would the team look with this O line, with this system, with these coaches and front office jokes, and with these players on offense, defense, and special teams?

[BADOLBILZ]

Actually, it is worse than that. If you list all OT in the NFL, Tinker Bell is dead last at #105.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1

 

OTOH, Langston Walker was rated #110 last year. Peters? He was 80th. So, it looks like the wishes that he tanks this season as much as last aren't going so well (at least from this data).

 

 

Peters is a disappointment only because he should be great. He is the most dominant run blocking LT in the NFL, and is usually very good in pass protection but has some glaring lapses like a couple weeks ago in Washington when he went to cut Andre Carter and whiffed resulting in a bad sack. That shouldn't happen and he should be criticized for it, but he should also still be here. When you trade away a star young player at a premium position you should have the potential to get much more in return down the line. Getting an offensive guard and a tight end for a LT is not exactly that. What's next? Trading a young franchise QB for a RB and a MLB?

[Flbillsfan#1]

Peters is a disappointment only because he should be great. He is the most dominant run blocking LT in the NFL, and is usually very good in pass protection but has some glaring lapses like a couple weeks ago in Washington when he went to cut Andre Carter and whiffed resulting in a bad sack. That shouldn't happen and he should be criticized for it, but he should also still be here. When you trade away a star young player at a premium position you should have the potential to get much more in return down the line. Getting an offensive guard and a tight end for a LT is not exactly that. What's next? Trading a young franchise QB for a RB and a MLB?

Wood is the future CENTER for the Bills. From what he has shown in his SHORT time in the NFL he will be a GREAT Center for YEARS. Many people that know football think the center position is the most important on the O-line. Time will tell, but I would put my money on Wood having a better career than Peters.

[dave mcbride]

Actually, it is worse than that. If you list all OT in the NFL, Tinker Bell is dead last at #105.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1

 

OTOH, Langston Walker was rated #110 last year. Peters? He was 80th. So, it looks like the wishes that he tanks this season as much as last aren't going so well (at least from this data).

 

Aaron Maybin is ranked 103rd at DE. Oher? 12th among all OTs.

Egad!!! Nice catch.

[BillsVet]

Wood is the future CENTER for the Bills. From what he has shown in his SHORT time in the NFL he will be a GREAT Center for YEARS. Many people that know football think the center position is the most important on the O-line. Time will tell, but I would put my money on Wood having a better career than Peters.

 

So that money spent on Hangartner was merely a bridge to Wood? Wonderful plan, especially given this franchise's track record in building a great OL. Another 10M wasted on an underachieving UFA, only to be replaced by a recent draft pick according to you.

 

And who's asking about comparing players that start at very different positions? Finding quality guards is much easier than finding All Pro LT's who can hold their own on an island. This is demonstrated by the multitude of OT's taken in the top half of the first round versus centers.