Peters may be willing to sit all season

[Mickey]

The franchise's second-all-time leading sacker skipped a week of OTAs. He was there for every mandatory minicamp, and reported to SJF on time.

 

One of these things is not like the other ...

Please read above quote from Brown's blog quoting Schobel, the extension was done before camp hence that is why he was there. Obviously, if a deal was done with Peter before camp he would be there too.

 

Lets see:

 

Were both coming off of pro bowl seasons? Check.

Were both underpaid compared to others on the team at similar positions who aren't as good? Check.

Did both have siginificant time left on long term contracts? Check.

Did both keep their mouth's shut in public? Check.

Did the team have no worthy player backing either up? Check.

Had both recently signed extensions? Check.

Are both vital to the teams success? Check.

Are both young with long careers ahead of them worth securing? Advantage Peters.

Are both rated among the elites at their position? Advantage Peters.

Are both going to get better or worse? Advantage Peters.

Did both miss offseason works out to send a message? Check.

 

Lori, for each difference you can reference in favor of better treatment for Schobel, I can come up with one in favor of Peters. Of course the situations aren't absolutely exactly alike. No twp contract situations ever are. But in this league, it is beyond dispute that the player values are determined relationship to other players similarly situated. Its even written into the rules such as in the case of franchised players. That is why we all looked to what players picked ahead of Hardy and behind him got to figure out what he should get.

 

It is not my argument that the situations are exactly alike. The situations between Schobel and Peters are easily alike enough for the outcomes to be expected to be similar. Instead, we have drastically different outcomes. Peter's agent is simply doing what any agent would do, compare his client's contract with his performance and that of others in the league and on the same team. If his agent didn't try to get a new deal for him this year he ought to be fired and if Brandon doesn't find a way to get a deal done that team can live with and that keeps our best, most promising player fat and happy, then he isn't doing his job either.

[Dawgg]

Please read above quote from Brown's blog quoting Schobel, the extension was done before camp hence that is why he was there. Obviously, if a deal was done with Peter before camp he would be there too.

 

Lets see:

 

Were both coming off of pro bowl seasons? Check.

Were both underpaid compared to others on the team at similar positions who aren't as good? Check.

Did both have siginificant time left on long term contracts? Check.

Did both keep their mouth's shut in public? Check.

Did the team have no worthy player backing either up? Check.

Had both recently signed extensions? Check.

Are both vital to the teams success? Check.

Are both young with long careers ahead of them worth securing? Advantage Peters.

Are both rated among the elites at their position? Advantage Peters.

Are both going to get better or worse? Advantage Peters.

Did both miss offseason works out to send a message? Check.

 

Lori, for each difference you can reference in favor of better treatment for Schobel, I can come up with one in favor of Peters. Of course the situations aren't absolutely exactly alike. No twp contract situations ever are. But in this league, it is beyond dispute that the player values are determined relationship to other players similarly situated. Its even written into the rules such as in the case of franchised players. That is why we all looked to what players picked ahead of Hardy and behind him got to figure out what he should get.

 

It is not my argument that the situations are exactly alike. The situations between Schobel and Peters are easily alike enough for the outcomes to be expected to be similar. Instead, we have drastically different outcomes. Peter's agent is simply doing what any agent would do, compare his client's contract with his performance and that of others in the league and on the same team. If his agent didn't try to get a new deal for him this year he ought to be fired and if Brandon doesn't find a way to get a deal done that team can live with and that keeps our best, most promising player fat and happy, then he isn't doing his job either.

 

Well said.

[keepthefaith]

Please read above quote from Brown's blog quoting Schobel, the extension was done before camp hence that is why he was there. Obviously, if a deal was done with Peter before camp he would be there too.

 

Lets see:

 

Were both coming off of pro bowl seasons? Check.

Were both underpaid compared to others on the team at similar positions who aren't as good? Check.

Did both have siginificant time left on long term contracts? Check.

Did both keep their mouth's shut in public? Check.

Did the team have no worthy player backing either up? Check.

Had both recently signed extensions? Check.

Are both vital to the teams success? Check.

Are both young with long careers ahead of them worth securing? Advantage Peters.

Are both rated among the elites at their position? Advantage Peters.

Are both going to get better or worse? Advantage Peters.

Did both miss offseason works out to send a message? Check.

 

Lori, for each difference you can reference in favor of better treatment for Schobel, I can come up with one in favor of Peters. Of course the situations aren't absolutely exactly alike. No twp contract situations ever are. But in this league, it is beyond dispute that the player values are determined relationship to other players similarly situated. Its even written into the rules such as in the case of franchised players. That is why we all looked to what players picked ahead of Hardy and behind him got to figure out what he should get.

 

It is not my argument that the situations are exactly alike. The situations between Schobel and Peters are easily alike enough for the outcomes to be expected to be similar. Instead, we have drastically different outcomes. Peter's agent is simply doing what any agent would do, compare his client's contract with his performance and that of others in the league and on the same team. If his agent didn't try to get a new deal for him this year he ought to be fired and if Brandon doesn't find a way to get a deal done that team can live with and that keeps our best, most promising player fat and happy, then he isn't doing his job either.

 

We should all relax. Peters will be in camp at some point. Don't forget that the Bills are negotiating with Evans now (who is in camp) and might want to get that done before addressing Peters. Really the Bills hold all the cards with Peters. Peters has nowhere to go. He'll be the first to crack in the stare-off. He has no choice.

[Mickey]

No, that's not speculation, that's fact as stated by the front office. They do not negotiate if you do not show up. They do not negotiate if you do not communicate. You merely choose to ignore the fact the the player in question, Jason Peters, IS WRONG. If he wants more money the brass has stated how he can get it: show up. Not too hard. If he wants to pout and not chat with them in person, then he will lose a lot of money. And if he's fine with that, that's on him.

You were speculating about Schobel, do you have any idea at all what was discussed between him and the team after he skipped those OTA's and then showed up for later off season work outs? And do you know for a fact

 

Where have they committed to paying him a significant extension if he attends camp?

 

Brandon hasn't ruled out a new deal if he shows but he also said:

 

"We expect Jason to be here to honor his commitment to the organization because we made a substantial commitment to him two years ago."

 

How do you get, "show up and we will pay you more money" from that?

 

That sounds an awful lot like they aren't going to extend him again. Brandon has spoke publicly on the issue criticizing Peters but Peters, to his credit, hasn't done the same. Two sides to every story we don't know Jason's. If Brandon wanted to talk to Peters or his agent, all he has to do is pick up the phone.

 

Did you think Schobel was "pouting" when he didn't show up for those OTA's?

 

Really, all this Pollyannish weeping and whining about Peters around here is silly. You'd think no player ever held out of camp to get more money before Jason Peters. "Elite pro-bowl left tackle getting paid like a long snapper holds out" Shocked I am, shocked, shocked, shocked.

[Bill from NYC]

The franchise's second-all-time leading sacker skipped a week of OTAs. He was there for every mandatory minicamp, and reported to SJF on time.

 

One of these things is not like the other ...

 

Lori, how do you think Peters ranks in terms of the Bills all time LTs?

[Lori]

No, that's not speculation, that's fact as stated by the front office. They do not negotiate if you do not show up. They do not negotiate if you do not communicate. You merely choose to ignore the fact the the player's agent in question, Jason Peters Eugene Parker, IS WRONG. If he wants more money the brass has stated how he can get it: show up. Not too hard. If he wants to pout and not chat with them in person, then he will lose a lot of money. And if he's fine with that, that's on him.

Wanted to fix one thing. From what I've heard of Peters' personality ... while I'm sure he wants to get paid for his performance, I'm thinking Parker is the one playing hardball and telling him not to report. Just my opinion.

 

Heck, at this point, I wouldn't mind an Angelo Wright-style outburst. Whether or not they agree with the holdout, I think everyone on this board knows Peters has a valid argument for a raise, which makes Parker's radio silence all the more puzzling.

[Mickey]

We should all relax. Peters will be in camp at some point. Don't forget that the Bills are negotiating with Evans now (who is in camp) and might want to get that done before addressing Peters. Really the Bills hold all the cards with Peters. Peters has nowhere to go. He'll be the first to crack in the stare-off. He has no choice.

Fair enough and I agree, the Bills ultimatey hold the cards but you have to consider the question of whether or not you want this guy until the end of his career manning the LT spot or do you want to guarantee that he finishes his career blocking like a mad man for someone else? Play hard ball with him now and you can kiss him good bye, maybe not this year but soon.

 

Frankly, after the Mike Williams debacle, I'd rather have to replace a good, non-pro bowl WR than a great, pro bowl LT.

[Lori]

Lori, how do you think Peters ranks in terms of the Bills all time LTs?

After one full season? C'mon, Bill. Does he have the potential to be at or near the top of that list? Absolutely. Do I think he has a legitimate beef? Damn straight. But even Bruce and Thurman, for all their negotiating through the media, knew they eventually had to show up in Fredonia to get a deal done.

 

Did I throw in that sack reference to send a message to those who persist in calling Schobel overrated? You make the call ...

[Ramius]

You were speculating about Schobel, do you have any idea at all what was discussed between him and the team after he skipped those OTA's and then showed up for later off season work outs? And do you know for a fact

 

Where have they committed to paying him a significant extension if he attends camp?

 

Brandon hasn't ruled out a new deal if he shows but he also said:

 

"We expect Jason to be here to honor his commitment to the organization because we made a substantial commitment to him two years ago."

 

How do you get, "show up and we will pay you more money" from that?

 

That sounds an awful lot like they aren't going to extend him again. Brandon has spoke publicly on the issue criticizing Peters but Peters, to his credit, hasn't done the same. Two sides to every story we don't know Jason's. If Brandon wanted to talk to Peters or his agent, all he has to do is pick up the phone.

 

Did you think Schobel was "pouting" when he didn't show up for those OTA's?

 

Really, all this Pollyannish weeping and whining about Peters around here is silly. You'd think no player ever held out of camp to get more money before Jason Peters. "Elite pro-bowl left tackle getting paid like a long snapper holds out" Shocked I am, shocked, shocked, shocked.

 

As Lori said, Schobel skipped voluntary OTAs. That hardly qualifies as pouting, particularly for a vested 6 year veteran who has more than proven his worth to this team. When push came to shove, and the mandatory OTAs rolled around, schobel was present. When training camp rolled around, Schobel was present. When it all came down to it, even though schobel wanted a new deal and more money, he nutted up like a professional does, showed up at his job, and got down to work.

 

Peters skipped all OTAs, inculding the mandatory ones. He's also skipped training camp. The guy looks to be an elite up and coming LT, but he's not there yet. The Bills could have let him play for his ERFA tender a couple of years back and he would have made like 300K. Instead, they recognized his potential, and rewarded him with a contract that paid him 10 times what he would have gotten. Now, after 1.5 good seasons, he wants more money. But the difference is that peters isnt being professional. He's decided to not show up for anything, clearly pointing out that the team is second to him, and he's not willing to put 100% effort to making this team better.

 

In the words of DC Tom, things that are different are not the same.

[Bill from NYC]

After one full season? C'mon, Bill. Does he have the potential to be at or near the top of that list? Absolutely. Do I think he has a legitimate beef? Damn straight. But even Bruce and Thurman, for all their negotiating through the media, knew they eventually had to show up in Fredonia to get a deal done.

 

Did I throw in that sack reference to send a message to those who persist in calling Schobel overrated? You make the call ...

 

It went over my head because I never thought that Schobel was overrated.

[richNjoisy]

Wanted to fix one thing. From what I've heard of Peters' personality ... while I'm sure he wants to get paid for his performance, I'm thinking Parker is the one playing hardball and telling him not to report. Just my opinion.

 

Heck, at this point, I wouldn't mind an Angelo Wright-style outburst. Whether or not they agree with the holdout, I think everyone on this board knows Peters has a valid argument for a raise, which makes Parker's radio silence all the more puzzling.

 

 

This thread has simply gotten too long to know what is being repeated - but my (addition?) take on this is this: With three years remaining on his contract,Jason simply cannot win this game of chicken. In order to

reach free agency, he would have to report for the last 6 games for each of the next three years. No one doubts (even Ralph I am sure) that Peters is being underpaid but he has no leverage. None. His only

option is to report and voice his complaints and say things like "I will never sign a new contract with the Bills again". Better , is to report, and play well and privately complain (and threaten). At 15k in fines every day,

he won't be able to afford this for long. Peters will cave and come in. I doubt this will go much past the first preseason game - if that. Or, he can retire on principle.

 

eh, it's only millions of dollars.....

[rockpile]

It's always easier to be cavalier with someone else's money.

 

 

Can I borrow $100?

 

I will gladly pay you Tuesday....l

[Mickey]

Let's stay with the dishwasher theme again, as your post is certainly evocative of that type of a response, ie commenting on ongoing negotiations basing your opinion on words printed in the news, rather than on a first hand account. How do you know that the Peters/Schobel situation is identical, other than both asking for more money? What types of negotiations were happening between the parties during this time? What were the opening offers on both sides? What conditions? Threats to hold out? Health of both players? Until you provide answers to each of those, your speculation is useless, other than to let us know that you like Peters more than Schobel. Goodie.

 

But the two situations aren't identical. The closer parallel is to Darwin Walker, and you see how Bills respond to hardball tactics by agents.

 

It's always easier to be cavalier with someone else's money.

Of course they are not identical. They never are but in this league that is how value is established, by comparison to other players similarly situated despite no two situations ever being exactly alike. The facts I have alluded to showing the similarities are almost all factual. They were both recently extended. They both lots of time left on those contracts. They both were underpaid, etc. The only non-factual opinions I recall listing is regarding whose skills were likely to get better and whose would get worse.

 

I haven't speculated about what went on behind the scenes at all, others did that to "prove" that there were valid reasons for drastically different outcomes. In response, I simply pointed out you could just as easily speculate in Peters' favor.

 

Cavalier with someone else's money??? I want a winning team and you don't have to be a Mensa member to know that you don't improve a 7-9 team by losing arguably its best player. Cavalier was dumping all that money on Kelsay. I am not sure its cavalier to want to keep one of the only elite players we have. I prefer a winning team with a large payroll to a losing one with a lower payroll. I am funny that way. I cheer for football players, not accountants.

 

I am not being critical of Schobel, just arguing that Peters has a good argument for the same treatment. I compared the two, I didn't put down either. The responses about what an angel Schobel is and what a disloyal, greedy git Peters is, those are the people who apparently like one over the other. You didn't see fit to point that out though in responses to their posts. Maybe you're the one with a crush on Schobel?

[Mickey]

This thread has simply gotten too long to know what is being repeated - but my (addition?) take on this is this: With three years remaining on his contract,Jason simply cannot win this game of chicken. In order to

reach free agency, he would have to report for the last 6 games for each of the next three years. No one doubts (even Ralph I am sure) that Peters is being underpaid but he has no leverage. None. His only

option is to report and voice his complaints and say things like "I will never sign a new contract with the Bills again". Better , is to report, and play well and privately complain (and threaten). At 15k in fines every day,

he won't be able to afford this for long. Peters will cave and come in. I doubt this will go much past the first preseason game - if that. Or, he can retire on principle.

 

eh, it's only millions of dollars.....

He does have leverage, long term leverage. The question being considered now isn't "do we want to give him a new contract to get him into camp?" The question is "Do we want this guy at LT for pretty much the rest of his career or are we comfortable with losing him in the next year or two?"

 

Play hardball with him now and you are right, he will end his hold out eventually. That will cost us his services when his current contract is up and the shoe is on the other foot.

 

This is really a win-win situation for Peters. Either he will get the extra money he wants or he will get paid what he would have anyway and will kiss Buffalo good-bye when the time comes. All he risks are fines which are nothing. Teams often waive them as a condition for ending the holdout. I would bet his agent agreed to pay his client back if the hold out doesn't work. It is not a win-win situation for the Bills, quite the opposite. They either have to pay him now or face losing him later when the leverage shoe is on the other foot.

 

Usually, hjaving players want more $ because their performance merits a raise is the kind of problem you want to have.

[KD in CA]

He does have leverage, long term leverage. The question being considered now isn't "do we want to give him a new contract to get him into camp?" The question is "Do we want this guy at LT for pretty much the rest of his career or are we comfortable with losing him in the next year or two?"

 

Play hardball with him now and you are right, he will end his hold out eventually. That will cost us his services when his current contract is up and the shoe is on the other foot.

 

You've negotiated deals before Mickey, so you know the perception is important. If the Bills capitulate to this guy, the inmates will rule the asylum.

 

I don't see this as a win for Peters at all. If he plays hardball and declares he'll never sign in Buffalo, it'll be 3 long years before he sees any add'l money. And if he refuses to play or half asses it for the next 3 years, he's never getting a big contract anyway. The guy needs to grow up and get to work.

[Mickey]

As Lori said, Schobel skipped voluntary OTAs. That hardly qualifies as pouting, particularly for a vested 6 year veteran who has more than proven his worth to this team. When push came to shove, and the mandatory OTAs rolled around, schobel was present. When training camp rolled around, Schobel was present. When it all came down to it, even though schobel wanted a new deal and more money, he nutted up like a professional does, showed up at his job, and got down to work.

 

Peters skipped all OTAs, inculding the mandatory ones. He's also skipped training camp. The guy looks to be an elite up and coming LT, but he's not there yet. The Bills could have let him play for his ERFA tender a couple of years back and he would have made like 300K. Instead, they recognized his potential, and rewarded him with a contract that paid him 10 times what he would have gotten. Now, after 1.5 good seasons, he wants more money. But the difference is that peters isnt being professional. He's decided to not show up for anything, clearly pointing out that the team is second to him, and he's not willing to put 100% effort to making this team better.

 

In the words of DC Tom, things that are different are not the same.

Yes, the team could have done that rather than extend him and then he would have bolted when his original contract was up becoming a free agent sooner and some other team would be struggling with the terrible problem of having a pro bowl left tackle. Peters has proved his worth to this team, that is why we are having this discussion and that is why this thread is up to 17 pages, because this guy is very, very good, we all know it and that is why his hold out has everyone in a tizzy.

 

For about the 10th time, Shobel was in camp because his deal was done before hand. I am sure that if Peters had a deal before hand he would be in camp.

 

As for being "professional", hold outs are a part of this profession, they happen every year across the league so lets not pretend that Peters has committed some sort of unspeakable outrage. Whitner held out of camp and missed 14 practices. McCargo held out. Clements held out.

 

I never said the situations are the same, they are similar and ceratinly similar enough for comparison purposes. That is how player values are set league wide, by comparison to other similarly situated players. Of course they are not all exactly the same but pointing that out is meaningless, the comparisons are made. That is absolutely how salaries are determined. When you tag a guy as your franchise man, the rules determine his salary based on comparison to the top players at his position.

 

Schobel and Peters are similar enough for any agent without his head up his brief case to make the comparison and argue, convincingly, that Peters should get a new deal despite all this moralizing about professionalism and committment. If you truly think that matters why not argue that we should release Peters because his non-professionalism reduces his value?

 

The fact is we need this guy and we want this guy because, non-professionalism aside, he is a kick-a$$ LT. If we want him for a year or two, then play hard ball. If we want him for 5 more years or longer, we need to get him signed. What we don't need is our GM calling him out publicly when Peters himself has refrained from doing so. That makes negotiations harder, not easier.

[Ramius]

Yes, the team could have done that rather than extend him and then he would have bolted when his original contract was up becoming a free agent sooner and some other team would be struggling with the terrible problem of having a pro bowl left tackle. Peters has proved his worth to this team, that is why we are having this discussion and that is why this thread is up to 17 pages, because this guy is very, very good, we all know it and that is why his hold out has everyone in a tizzy.

 

For about the 10th time, Shobel was in camp because his deal was done before hand. I am sure that if Peters had a deal before hand he would be in camp.

 

As for being "professional", hold outs are a part of this profession, they happen every year across the league so lets not pretend that Peters has committed some sort of unspeakable outrage. Whitner held out of camp and missed 14 practices. McCargo held out. Clements held out.

 

I never said the situations are the same, they are similar and ceratinly similar enough for comparison purposes. That is how player values are set league wide, by comparison to other similarly situated players. Of course they are not all exactly the same but pointing that out is meaningless, the comparisons are made. That is absolutely how salaries are determined. When you tag a guy as your franchise man, the rules determine his salary based on comparison to the top players at his position.

 

Schobel and Peters are similar enough for any agent without his head up his brief case to make the comparison and argue, convincingly, that Peters should get a new deal despite all this moralizing about professionalism and committment. If you truly think that matters why not argue that we should release Peters because his non-professionalism reduces his value?

 

The fact is we need this guy and we want this guy because, non-professionalism aside, he is a kick-a$$ LT. If we want him for a year or two, then play hard ball. If we want him for 5 more years or longer, we need to get him signed. What we don't need is our GM calling him out publicly when Peters himself has refrained from doing so. That makes negotiations harder, not easier.

 

Whitner, McCargo, McKelvin, and Clements were not under contract with the team at the time of their holdouts. Once they had contracts signed, they were in camp.

 

Peters holds 0 leverage, because he has 3 years left on his deal, plus 1 or 2 years with the franchise tag. He can come out and say tomorrow that he'll never re-sign with the Bills, but if we were to flash him a 60 million, 25 million guaranteed contract, he'd sign in half a second. No one is going to pass up that much and risk injury over 2+ seasons.

[Mickey]

You've negotiated deals before Mickey, so you know the perception is important. If the Bills capitulate to this guy, the inmates will rule the asylum.

 

I don't see this as a win for Peters at all. If he plays hardball and declares he'll never sign in Buffalo, it'll be 3 long years before he sees any add'l money. And if he refuses to play or half asses it for the next 3 years, he's never getting a big contract anyway. The guy needs to grow up and get to work.

That would be a sound strategy I guess but not when you already have given in to extensions for top performance regardless of remaining time left on a player's contract.

 

Peters is ony what, 25? 26? Walter Jones is 8 years older than he is and going strong. He was the starting LT for the NFC in the pro bowl and has a $50 Mil. contract. Peters has a lot more than 3 years left in him. No need for him to come in and dog it or to make any declarations about the future. He certainly has been very quiet so far and I don't see that changing.

I am sure he will play as well as he alwasy has. He will probably hold out again in his last year and demand a trade, maybe we will franchise him or maybe he will sit the whole year. Either way, screw him over now and you insure losing him later. Exactly when and how is debatable but we can't expect to pay a guy worth 50-60 million only 15 and expect that he is going not going to get out when he can.

 

So, do you want him for 2-3 years under his original 15 mil contract and then watch him play for the someone else for 7-8 years after that or do you want him for the next 10 at 50 to 60? That is for the team to decide. In my opinion, we should waste no time in getting the best deal we can with him and put this to bed.

[Billadelphia]

Yes, the team could have done that rather than extend him and then he would have bolted when his original contract was up becoming a free agent sooner and some other team would be struggling with the terrible problem of having a pro bowl left tackle. Peters has proved his worth to this team, that is why we are having this discussion and that is why this thread is up to 17 pages, because this guy is very, very good, we all know it and that is why his hold out has everyone in a tizzy.

 

For about the 10th time, Shobel was in camp because his deal was done before hand. I am sure that if Peters had a deal before hand he would be in camp.

 

As for being "professional", hold outs are a part of this profession, they happen every year across the league so lets not pretend that Peters has committed some sort of unspeakable outrage. Whitner held out of camp and missed 14 practices. McCargo held out. Clements held out.

 

I never said the situations are the same, they are similar and ceratinly similar enough for comparison purposes. That is how player values are set league wide, by comparison to other similarly situated players. Of course they are not all exactly the same but pointing that out is meaningless, the comparisons are made. That is absolutely how salaries are determined. When you tag a guy as your franchise man, the rules determine his salary based on comparison to the top players at his position.

 

Schobel and Peters are similar enough for any agent without his head up his brief case to make the comparison and argue, convincingly, that Peters should get a new deal despite all this moralizing about professionalism and committment. If you truly think that matters why not argue that we should release Peters because his non-professionalism reduces his value?

 

The fact is we need this guy and we want this guy because, non-professionalism aside, he is a kick-a$ LT. If we want him for a year or two, then play hard ball. If we want him for 5 more years or longer, we need to get him signed. What we don't need is our GM calling him out publicly when Peters himself has refrained from doing so. That makes negotiations harder, not easier.

 

Don't forget that he ended the season on IR and nobody has seen him since. I think that the injury/offseason surgery, the fact that he has 3 years left, and the fact that he isn't showing up for mandatory camps is enough for the Bills to want to play hardball with him. If it was my money, I'd want to see him perform after that surgery prior to giving him the huge contract that his position historically deserves.

 

He could be a completely different person after the surgery, although it is unlikely. I think the Bills have every right to hedge their risk of losing millions of dollars by telling him that he needs to be at camp prior to negotiations.

[VJ91]

Yeah, and then we could go another 15 or so years with a second rate left tackle and draft defensive backs with our best picks.

This situation is mind boggling.

 

Well said, Bill. I am firmly in Peters' corner since he is grossly underpaid even on his own offensive line, much less compared to other pro bowl type left tackles around the NFL. So fine, Ralph and his new guy Russ can talk up the company line and act as if no other decent player in NFL history has had the audacity to hold out from training camp while under contract. Peters has not established himself as a consistent star yet, so Ralph and Russ have a lot of support.

 

But it makes no sense not to reach out to Peters when your only other viable option is to switch average right tackle and grossly overpaid Walker to left tackle, and replace him with.......nobody. And I mean nobody. You have Kirk Chambers (who?), and a couple of young kids nobody knows anything about to start at right tackle. Oh wait, the Bills did draft a tackle this past April. Some kid in the 7th round, right? I'm sure he's ready to start at right tackle after all, he is the son of Karl Malone, right?

 

And why are the Bills wasting valuable time and practices doing nothing about this problem? If they won't deal with Peters while he holds out, why isn't Walker already starting at left tackle in practice now? And why haven't they tried to trade for a decent tackle yet? They are all cockly about blowing off Peters, yet they can't be delsuional enough to think they can replace him with their current roster and still have any chance of making the playoffs, can they?

[sven233]

I have no doubt that if he showed up and started practicing, he would get a new contract immediately. The Bills just want to check him out to make sure he is 100% healthy and ready to go before hey pay him $8 million or more. Not a terrible request in my opinion.

 

EVERY OTHER GUY IS HERE.......EVEN THE ONES WITHOUT CONTRACTS FOR NEXT SEASON!!!! If he comes into camp and is ready to go, the Bills WILL PAY HIM! Show some loyalty to the team and the team will pay him!

[The Senator]

Well said, Bill. I am firmly in Peters' corner since he is grossly underpaid even on his own offensive line, much less compared to other pro bowl type left tackles around the NFL. So fine, Ralph and his new guy Russ can talk up the company line and act as if no other decent player in NFL history has had the audacity to hold out from training camp while under contract. Peters has not established himself as a consistent star yet, so Ralph and Russ have a lot of support.

 

But it makes no sense not to reach out to Peters when your only other viable option is to switch average right tackle and grossly overpaid Walker to left tackle, and replace him with.......nobody. And I mean nobody. You have Kirk Chambers (who?), and a couple of young kids nobody knows anything about to start at right tackle. Oh wait, the Bills did draft a tackle this past April. Some kid in the 7th round, right? I'm sure he's ready to start at right tackle after all, he is the son of Karl Malone, right?

 

And why are the Bills wasting valuable time and practices doing nothing about this problem? If they won't deal with Peters while he holds out, why isn't Walker already starting at left tackle in practice now? And why haven't they tried to trade for a decent tackle yet? They are all cockly about blowing off Peters, yet they can't be delsuional enough to think they can replace him with their current roster and still have any chance of making the playoffs, can they?

Welcome to the board, Vince. Tell your client to get his ass in camp.

[Billadelphia]

Well said, Bill. I am firmly in Peters' corner since he is grossly underpaid even on his own offensive line, much less compared to other pro bowl type left tackles around the NFL. So fine, Ralph and his new guy Russ can talk up the company line and act as if no other decent player in NFL history has had the audacity to hold out from training camp while under contract. Peters has not established himself as a consistent star yet, so Ralph and Russ have a lot of support.

 

But it makes no sense not to reach out to Peters when your only other viable option is to switch average right tackle and grossly overpaid Walker to left tackle, and replace him with.......nobody. And I mean nobody. You have Kirk Chambers (who?), and a couple of young kids nobody knows anything about to start at right tackle. Oh wait, the Bills did draft a tackle this past April. Some kid in the 7th round, right? I'm sure he's ready to start at right tackle after all, he is the son of Karl Malone, right?

 

And why are the Bills wasting valuable time and practices doing nothing about this problem? If they won't deal with Peters while he holds out, why isn't Walker already starting at left tackle in practice now? And why haven't they tried to trade for a decent tackle yet? They are all cockly about blowing off Peters, yet they can't be delsuional enough to think they can replace him with their current roster and still have any chance of making the playoffs, can they?

 

http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6297

[GG]

Of course they are not identical. They never are but in this league that is how value is established, by comparison to other players similarly situated despite no two situations ever being exactly alike. The facts I have alluded to showing the similarities are almost all factual. They were both recently extended. They both lots of time left on those contracts. They both were underpaid, etc. The only non-factual opinions I recall listing is regarding whose skills were likely to get better and whose would get worse.

 

You listed factual information available in the press. You have zero information on the actual negotiating situations and the real differences between the two cases. Yet, you still formed an opinion, and derided another poster for introducing speculation into his analysis. At least you're consistent over the years.

 

 

I haven't speculated about what went on behind the scenes at all, others did that to "prove" that there were valid reasons for drastically different outcomes. In response, I simply pointed out you could just as easily speculate in Peters' favor.

 

Cavalier with someone else's money??? I want a winning team and you don't have to be a Mensa member to know that you don't improve a 7-9 team by losing arguably its best player. Cavalier was dumping all that money on Kelsay. I am not sure its cavalier to want to keep one of the only elite players we have. I prefer a winning team with a large payroll to a losing one with a lower payroll. I am funny that way. I cheer for football players, not accountants.

 

I am not being critical of Schobel, just arguing that Peters has a good argument for the same treatment. I compared the two, I didn't put down either. The responses about what an angel Schobel is and what a disloyal, greedy git Peters is, those are the people who apparently like one over the other. You didn't see fit to point that out though in responses to their posts. Maybe you're the one with a crush on Schobel?

 

Yes, cavalier with someone else's money - Ralph Wilson's. It's easy for you and all Peters' fans to line up behind him and demand a raise. It's much harder for the owner to cave in to an agent's demands, because he has a team to run for more than one year and more mouths to feed than a disgruntled superstar. The Bills did not succumb to Darwin Walker's demands last year, and likely they won't to Peters' because that's not the way Wilson operates his franchise. If you don't like it, find another owner.

 

This is not and has never been about each player's merits of a pay raise nor their on field ability. It's all about negotiating leverage and how each has chosen to get a raise. All Schobel (his agent) did was demonstrate that they are more skilled negotiators to get the best deal from the Bills. You would figure that Parker would remember that he's dealing with Ralph Wilson and that he's not the one to fall for a hold out - unless your name is Bruce Smith and you are a proven all-world player. Don't know why it's difficult for you to see that Peters' absence and probably some other undisclosed factors are the biggest reasons he hasn't been extended, rather than a simplistic "Schobel got his raise, but Peters hasn't?"

[ndirish1978]

Well said, Bill. I am firmly in Peters' corner since he is grossly underpaid even on his own offensive line, much less compared to other pro bowl type left tackles around the NFL. So fine, Ralph and his new guy Russ can talk up the company line and act as if no other decent player in NFL history has had the audacity to hold out from training camp while under contract. Peters has not established himself as a consistent star yet, so Ralph and Russ have a lot of support.

 

But it makes no sense not to reach out to Peters when your only other viable option is to switch average right tackle and grossly overpaid Walker to left tackle, and replace him with.......nobody. And I mean nobody. You have Kirk Chambers (who?), and a couple of young kids nobody knows anything about to start at right tackle. Oh wait, the Bills did draft a tackle this past April. Some kid in the 7th round, right? I'm sure he's ready to start at right tackle after all, he is the son of Karl Malone, right?

 

And why are the Bills wasting valuable time and practices doing nothing about this problem? If they won't deal with Peters while he holds out, why isn't Walker already starting at left tackle in practice now? And why haven't they tried to trade for a decent tackle yet? They are all cockly about blowing off Peters, yet they can't be delsuional enough to think they can replace him with their current roster and still have any chance of making the playoffs, can they?

 

That's it, pay the man. Nevermind the fact he is coming off surgery and NO one has seen him on the field after the surgery. Let's pay him eleventy billion dollars a season, cause it's not us paying his salary. I wouldn't waste a cent on Peters until he shows 1- he is healthy and can play at the same level and 2- he's not an ingrate like Willis. Why do I compare the 2? Because we took a huge chance on Willis, giving him good money, let him sit out a year and he turns around and takes a dump on the city. Peters signed as an UDFA TE, was taught how to play tackle and developed into a good player, then EXTENDED to reward him when he performed well. I have nothing against a new contract for him, but he should show some class and show up to camp for the team that turned him into what he is. And don't bother to tell me he would have done the same anywhere else, cause there's not another team in the league who had a good O-Line coach to teach him technique AND would have bothered to give him more than a look at playing LT.

[PromoTheRobot]

Peters must report by Aug 8 to get credit for season

 

If Peters does not report by August 8, then this season does not count. You may think Peters has leverage, but he has squat. If he sits a year, no one will pay him top dollar, especially because he's coming off surgery and has not shown anyone he is back to form. His agent is an idiot.

 

PTR

[WellDressed]

N N N N N Nady!!!!

[richNjoisy]

Peters must report by Aug 8 to get credit for season

 

If Peters does not report by August 8, then this season does not count. You may think Peters has leverage, but he has squat. If he sits a year, no one will pay him top dollar, especially because he's coming off surgery and has not shown anyone he is back to form. His agent is an idiot.

 

PTR

 

 

This only underscores Peter's lack of leverage. But, PTR - who is the real idiot? The rich agent who loses nothing (except ....reputation? HA!) for screwing up Jason OR is is Peters for blindly following this guy while he is risking EVERYTHING? I seem to recall that Peters got something like a 9 on the wonderlic. That's using the old noggin' Jason!

 

I hope he has at least ONE friend who can straighten him out!

[apuszczalowski]

This only underscores Peter's lack of leverage. But, PTR - who is the real idiot? The rich agent who loses nothing (except ....reputation? HA!) for screwing up Jason OR is is Peters for blindly following this guy while he is risking EVERYTHING? I seem to recall that Peters got something like a 9 on the wonderlic. That's using the old noggin' Jason!

 

I hope he has at least ONE friend who can straighten him out!

Don't Ha at reputation, in the buisness that he is in, reputation plays a huge part in his success. If the agent gets a reputation of holding players out and not getting them what they want, or making a mistake like this, he will not get many more clients, which is the only way that an agent gets paid. If the agent also gets the reputation of playing games, or holding players out, teams become leary of dealing with his clients and may pass on a player because they don't want to deal with that agent.

[LynchMob23]

And don't forget that Parker wasn't the agent that signed that deal - Peters just recently acquired the firm.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Peters has shown that winning isn't important to him.

 

If he cared about winning, he'd be thinking, "Yes I need a new contract, and I'll tell them that privately. But I can't holdout, because I need to learn the new offense and I need to practice with my teammates to play at my best and give this team the best chance to win."

 

Jason Peters has made it perfectly clear that money comes first, and winning comes second.

 

Therefore, if I'm sitting in the GM's chair, I'm moving on without him and trying to forget he so much as exists. Regardless of whether or not he reports, he's not getting a new contract this offseason...he's already shown me his true colors by not getting to camp on time, and I don't want to invest millions in a player who isn't dedicated to winning.

 

If he wants to pout in the corner, he can sit on his couch for the next 3 years, miss out on the prime of his career along with millions of dollars. Thats his choice. But he isn't bigger than this team. We can move Walker, himself an outstanding run blocker, to the blind side, and give him help with the quicker pass rushers. This time will survive without Jason Peters.

 

If Peters comes into camp sometime in the next week, he can still start for me. If he plays hard, practices harder, and then attends all mandatory AND voluntary activities next year, and THEN reports to camp on time and says the right things to the media through it all...then maybe we can talk about money.

 

But Jason Peters has a long way to go to show us he cares about winning, and that he's a player worth spending money on.

[Fan in Chicago]

So, do you want him for 2-3 years under his original 15 mil contract and then watch him play for the someone else for 7-8 years after that or do you want him for the next 10 at 50 to 60? That is for the team to decide. In my opinion, we should waste no time in getting the best deal we can with him and put this to bed.

 

I am not sure you can make the conclusion that if the team makes him happy now, that he will stay happy for the length of his new contract. He already got a raise, what 2 years back, and is now pouting big time ? What happens if and when he makes multiple pro-bowls ? From both, Peters' and the Bills', perspectives they can only do what makes sense in the medium term. I do believe Peters deserves more money now but he is going about it the wrong way and the Bills are doing the right thing by making him sweat. Aug 8th is not too far away but his lack of participation in TA, especially in a new offense, will hurt us even going into the regular season. Even if he reports, say around Aug 8th, he has lost valuable practice time which will cause a problem even though the line has been together since last year.

[richNjoisy]

Peters has shown that winning isn't important to him.

 

If he cared about winning, he'd be thinking, "Yes I need a new contract, and I'll tell them that privately. But I can't holdout, because I need to learn the new offense and I need to practice with my teammates to play at my best and give this team the best chance to win."

 

Jason Peters has made it perfectly clear that money comes first, and winning comes second.

 

Therefore, if I'm sitting in the GM's chair, I'm moving on without him and trying to forget he so much as exists. Regardless of whether or not he reports, he's not getting a new contract this offseason...he's already shown me his true colors by not getting to camp on time, and I don't want to invest millions in a player who isn't dedicated to winning.

 

If he wants to pout in the corner, he can sit on his couch for the next 3 years, miss out on the prime of his career along with millions of dollars. Thats his choice. But he isn't bigger than this team. We can move Walker, himself an outstanding run blocker, to the blind side, and give him help with the quicker pass rushers. This time will survive without Jason Peters.

 

If Peters comes into camp sometime in the next week, he can still start for me. If he plays hard, practices harder, and then attends all mandatory AND voluntary activities next year, and THEN reports to camp on time and says the right things to the media through it all...then maybe we can talk about money.

 

But Jason Peters has a long way to go to show us he cares about winning, and that he's a player worth spending money on.

 

I am totally for Bills management here so don't misunderstand me BUT your comments are a bit unfair to Peters. He IS underpaid. he is a probowl Left tackle. No way should he make way less than a left guard. The fact he is complaining about his salary does not mean he does not care about winning - it might simply means he cares about being drastically underpaid. Now, having said that, his METHOD of complaining (holding out) is just plain STUPID - he has three years left on his contract and is coming off an injury. The smart thing to do is to come into camp, prove he's totally healthy and work his butt off. The Bills have publicly stated they are willing to discuss a new deal IF HE COMES INTO CAMP. Peters simply may be rather stupid (as opposed to being uncaring about winning). He is also listening to his agent too much. Peters shoudkl be in camp by sometime next week.

 

I think

[ndirish1978]

I'm tired of hearing players are underpaid. When players like Kelsay get big contracts and then underperform management doesn't get to renegotiate and recoup the money they overspent. Similarly, if every player on the team were paid exactly what they were worth, every team in the NFL would be way over the salary cap or else mediocre. This is a free market and players get paid according to their perceived value and the contracts they sign. Jason could have waited another year to renegotiate after securing a starting position and then cashed in on his pro bowl card. But no, he renegotiated when he held less value. Tough schitt. He wants a new contract, fine. But go do your damn job and ask for the new deal quietly.

[Bill from NYC]

Peters ranked as top 5 LT's in the league. With a pretty impressive group. So again, why is it wrong that he is pissed Walker and Dockery make more than him?

 

SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- The 49ers are excited about Joe Staley taking over at left tackle. Others are taking notice as well. Former NFL scout Tom Marino, now with Scout.com, ranks Staley among the 10 best left tackles in the NFL, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

 

Marino's top five: Buffalo's Jason Peters, St. Louis' Orlando Pace, Seattle's Walter Jones, Dallas' Flozell Adams and Carolina's Jordan Gross. Marino then lists Staley among five players receiving honorable mention.

 

Please post WAY more often.

[John Adams]

Is it that hard? Show up to camp. Get extended.

 

Or don't show up, come to camp out of shape and behind in implementing the new offense, don't get extended, and ruin your chances of the huge money on the open market.

 

Right now he's like a son who's acting like a knucklehead. I want to smack him in the head and once he starts acting sensibly, I'll give him a big hug.

[Billadelphia]

If I were Jason Peters, and sane, I would be doing the same thing. I am a top 5 LT in a league that pays top 5 LT's a lot of money. I play a sport that threatens a career ending injury during every game. I had a bad injury last year that reminded me of the prior stated fact. Did I say that the Bills O-Line got bulldozed when I wasn't playing? Did I mention I am the only Bill to be selected to the pro bowl? Did I mention I am not overrated like Schobel who got a raise when stiffs like Kelsay got a raise. Did I mention that Butler, Fowler and Williams wouldn't be playing for a lot of the best NFL teams? Yet they were given a raise? Oh yea, and with 3 years left on my contract, I know that holding out and playing hardball is the only way I am going to get paid the appropriate amount for 3 years.

 

I mean are you people seriousness? OK, fine, if you want to be angry that professional athletes demand and get paid an absurd amount of money, that is fine. But can anyone really tell me it is to the Bills benefit to manage the team in this way? How? Because it keeps the inmates from running the asylum? Hell, by giving Kelsay, Williams, Butler, Fowler all raises.....and not progressing contract talks with Evans or reaching out to Peters, the Bills essentially handed the inmates the keys!!! At least when the star players get paid its expected. Teammates might grumble about people getting the star treatment, but its commonplace in professional sports to have that hierarchy. I just dont get it. The Bills might be making a strong statement, good for them, I don't care, I want to see wins. The fans deserve it after 10 years of mediocrity.

 

I agree with most of these points, but the injury thing is what sticks out at me. He needs to show up and make sure that its the same top 5 LT that we're talking about. The key difference in extending Schobel and not Peters is that Schobel wasn't coming off of IR and Peters is. The secondary difference is that Schobel was in training camp and Peters isn't.

 

It just doesn't make sense to sign someone to the contract that Peters will eventually get when you aren't sure if he is healthy or not. If he isn't 100% healthy after the surgery, he isn't going to be the same caliber player that everyone is remembering him as.

[stuckincincy]

I agree about the injury stuff, but the Bills would have a pretty good idea about that since witnessed and tended to the injury last year. They didn't make a big deal out of it last year, he almost played the Pro Bowl I thought. Possibly the Bills aren't talking to him because they know he is injured. But I could also see Peters being told by his agent that, hey listen, you are now a top 5 LT and everyone knows it, you deserve a lot more money than you are getting paid (which everyone on this board understand I think), and as last year showed you, one injury can end it...so hold out NOW

 

His injury status is unknown. If I was in his shoes and holding out for more $$$, I'd sure show up and get examined by the Bill's medical staff to get those concerns settled and out of the way. Puts one in a better negotiating position - he certainly must have his own doctors, and paid them for their opinion and care some time ago...

[LynchMob23]

No one is disputing that Jason Peters is good. However, to assume that just because he's good he deserves to become more than the team, better than the team is a dangerous road to travel down. Peters did not show up, has not shown up, nor has any evidence by way of Bills doctors at this time to justify any sort of contract negotiation. Jason Peters has not since his january visit been to one bills drive. I don't care a lick what he makes, what he wants to make or what he will make. I'm not the fan that says "Jason Peters is making 3x what I do in a year in fines" because that in the long run doesn't matter. What does matter is if this guy wants to be paid like the elite LT everyone thinks he is, he should at least show up and perform as such.

 

He and his previous agent signed that contract, and back then it was astronomical to pay. But he signed his tender, showed up to mandatory activities and was rewarded in the spring/summer. This time around he holds out, doesn't communicate and instead has put up a wall. I don't think it's an insult to one's pride to express to your employer that you're dissatisfied and desire a new deal, do you?

 

Or would you prefer the Bills preemptively sign players they think are on the rise to "good" contracts to make sure they feel appreciated and paid commensurate to their performance? Wait, we did that with Peters and he still isn't happy....

[ndirish1978]

Top 5, I agree. But he has THREE YEARS LEFT on his contract. What kind of leverage does he think he has? I won't play for you? It's not like he's going to become an UFA. Plus, if he doesn't report he's stuck here for an extra year or 2. The FO doesn't HAVE to trade him OR extend him. At least if he came to camp he would garner good will, which would make the FO WANT him around.