Dorian Williams in the Hoecht/Lorax role?

[transplantbillsfan]

This is just a thought.  In Joe Marino's All-22 this week he pointed out that Hoecht and Williams were being used in a similar manner.  I understand that Williams is about 30 lbs lighter than Hoecht's reported weight (couldn't find anything definitive) and about 15 lbs lighter than when Lorenzo Alexander was used in a similar role, but as far as strength and athleticism go, it seems like Dorian Williams could be used similarly as Bernard/Milano/(hopefully)Shaq Thompson man the true LB positions.

 

Tangentially, I'm mainly asking because along with the importance of Hoecht, McDermott's been pretty brilliant defensively since he took over play calling.  If anyone listens to The Athletic Football show, the show today was about the 10 people/entities that are changing the NFL this season (very Bills-centric... the very first thing they talk about is Jackson Hawes and they spend a lot of time talking about it) and at one point they Robert Mayes poses the question to his guest Nate Tice asking if we'll look back in 2-3 years at the Bills vs. Chiefs game this week and see that as the game where defenses started changing.  (It was all about the dime looks last weekend).  

 

So... it sure seems like the "chaos creator" role Hoecht and Alexander years ago can play is pretty darn useful to McDermott.  I guess I'm just looking at the players on our roster and wondering if that player for the rest of this season with Hoecht out isn't Dorian Williams?

 

That may be a super weird thought, so I guess I'd direct it to the more knowledgeable among you like @GunnerBill and @Buffalo716 along with anyone else who can chime in.

[That's No Moon]

It requires the other linebackers to keep their arms and legs attached which seems to be problematic. Apart from that? Go for it. Playing downhill is Dorian's strength. The less reading and dropping he has to do the better. Let him attack.

[Big Turk]

I would like it...Williams is violent and sudden, something we lack mostly. Reminds me a lot of Bradham in that way.

[BillytheKid]

It is definitely important. Since McDermott took over play calling the last 10 quarters of football played by the Bills they have given up 3 points in the 2nd half. 
 

9 points to Carolina and 21 points to What everyone thought was the best offense in the league. 8 of those came because KC converted a 4th and 17 after Hoecht went out. 
 

So they are giving up an average of 13.3 ppg with McDermott calling the defense which would rank first in the NFL.

 

Mcdermott needs to call the defense for sure and if Williams can play that position then by all means do it. Only big difference is he isn’t going to have the bull rush that Hoecht had because of the weight difference. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I like it. 

[mushypeaches]

The athleticism that Dorian Williams brings to the current defense warrants him having a larger role than just backup LB

I think that he proved last year that he can be trusted

Let's play to his strengths and let him attack!

[oldmanfan]

I was thinking it would be Groot moving around with Bosa and AJ at the ends.  At some point Jackson has to get involved as well.  Williams is an interesting option but I think his size would be a bit of an issue.

[jkeerie]

18 minutes ago, BillytheKid said:

It is definitely important. Since McDermott took over play calling the last 10 quarters of football played by the Bills they have given up 3 points in the 2nd half. 
 

9 points to Carolina and 21 points to What everyone thought was the best offense in the league. 8 of those came because KC converted a 4th and 17 after Hoecht went out. 
 

So they are giving up an average of 13.3 ppg with McDermott calling the defense which would rank first in the NFL.

 

Mcdermott needs to call the defense for sure and if Williams can play that position then by all means do it. Only big difference is he isn’t going to have the bull rush that Hoecht had because of the weight difference. 

This plays into what McD has been talking about in his last two post game pressers...that the defense needs to play with an attitude.  I believe that is an aggressive, attacking attitude.

[elroy16]

They've moved Solomon inside at times as well.

Whoever they use, they have to keep up the movement up front and continue to confuse offenses as opposed to the sit back and read and react. 

[SCBills]

Williams is talented enough that we should get him on the field. 
 

On passing downs, having him play a rush linebacker in place of a DT seemed to have some juice.  Solomon also had some nice reps in the Hoecht role after he went out. 
 

Have to think the rush plan involves those two being used creatively, but Landon Jackson is going to have to give us something.. even if just as a power/compression EDGE. 
 

Sanders coming back could change up things a bit as he was drafted to be a guy who should be able to give immediate pass rush juice as a rookie.  Let’s hope he makes a jump when he comes back. 

[Rigotz]

The piece you're missing with Dorian is pass rush skills. Lorax and Hoecht have significantly better pass rush skills and were significantly larger.

 

You need a person who can actually play on the line, not a 225lb linebacker.

[GunnerBill]

I am open to the idea. Dorian's issue at linebacker is his play recognition, lane discipline and positioning. Get him lined up on or close to the line of scrimmage on passing downs and just use his physical gifts going forward. That is kind of how we used Lorax under Sean in 2017 and 2018. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

31 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This is just a thought.  In Joe Marino's All-22 this week he pointed out that Hoecht and Williams were being used in a similar manner.  I understand that Williams is about 30 lbs lighter than Hoecht's reported weight (couldn't find anything definitive) and about 15 lbs lighter than when Lorenzo Alexander was used in a similar role, but as far as strength and athleticism go, it seems like Dorian Williams could be used similarly as Bernard/Milano/(hopefully)Shaq Thompson man the true LB positions.

 

Tangentially, I'm mainly asking because along with the importance of Hoecht, McDermott's been pretty brilliant defensively since he took over play calling.  If anyone listens to The Athletic Football show, the show today was about the 10 people/entities that are changing the NFL this season (very Bills-centric... the very first thing they talk about is Jackson Hawes and they spend a lot of time talking about it) and at one point they Robert Mayes poses the question to his guest Nate Tice asking if we'll look back in 2-3 years at the Bills vs. Chiefs game this week and see that as the game where defenses started changing.  (It was all about the dime looks last weekend).  

 

So... it sure seems like the "chaos creator" role Hoecht and Alexander years ago can play is pretty darn useful to McDermott.  I guess I'm just looking at the players on our roster and wondering if that player for the rest of this season with Hoecht out isn't Dorian Williams?

 

That may be a super weird thought, so I guess I'd direct it to the more knowledgeable among you like @GunnerBill and @Buffalo716 along with anyone else who can chime in.

I pointed out earlier in the week that there were a few guys that could combine and take snaps in the Hoecht roll. Williams was one of them. I also think AJE could see some of those snaps as well as Shaq. 

 

I don't think anyone on our roster currently can slip I to that role. Proof being, before Hoecht came back we weren't running the same formations. Those ones with no DT and Hoecht in the middle standing. I think he just has a special skill set. 

[BuffaloMatt]

34 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

It requires the other linebackers to keep their arms and legs attached which seems to be problematic. Apart from that? Go for it. Playing downhill is Dorian's strength. The less reading and dropping he has to do the better. Let him attack.

See ball get ball . . . .

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

37 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

It requires the other linebackers to keep their arms and legs attached which seems to be problematic. Apart from that? Go for it. Playing downhill is Dorian's strength. The less reading and dropping he has to do the better. Let him attack.

 

He also seems to have a solid knack as a spy - and running QBs have absolutely killed us for years.  

[boyst]

I don't think he's big enough nor atheltic enough. Shaq Thompson should play that role. If Milano gets healthy again and Bernard can stay on the field a hybrid nickel with Thompson playing that role is the best bet. 

 

Hoecht was going to be the DE/LB. I don't see Williams having enough ass to set the edge or 

[transplantbillsfan]

19 minutes ago, boyst said:

I don't think he's big enough nor atheltic enough. Shaq Thompson should play that role. If Milano gets healthy again and Bernard can stay on the field a hybrid nickel with Thompson playing that role is the best bet. 

 

Hoecht was going to be the DE/LB. I don't see Williams having enough ass to set the edge or 

 

Shaq Thompson is at best the same size as Dorian Williams.  I actually think he's smaller.

[Buffalo716]

59 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This is just a thought.  In Joe Marino's All-22 this week he pointed out that Hoecht and Williams were being used in a similar manner.  I understand that Williams is about 30 lbs lighter than Hoecht's reported weight (couldn't find anything definitive) and about 15 lbs lighter than when Lorenzo Alexander was used in a similar role, but as far as strength and athleticism go, it seems like Dorian Williams could be used similarly as Bernard/Milano/(hopefully)Shaq Thompson man the true LB positions.

 

Tangentially, I'm mainly asking because along with the importance of Hoecht, McDermott's been pretty brilliant defensively since he took over play calling.  If anyone listens to The Athletic Football show, the show today was about the 10 people/entities that are changing the NFL this season (very Bills-centric... the very first thing they talk about is Jackson Hawes and they spend a lot of time talking about it) and at one point they Robert Mayes poses the question to his guest Nate Tice asking if we'll look back in 2-3 years at the Bills vs. Chiefs game this week and see that as the game where defenses started changing.  (It was all about the dime looks last weekend).  

 

So... it sure seems like the "chaos creator" role Hoecht and Alexander years ago can play is pretty darn useful to McDermott.  I guess I'm just looking at the players on our roster and wondering if that player for the rest of this season with Hoecht out isn't Dorian Williams?

 

That may be a super weird thought, so I guess I'd direct it to the more knowledgeable among you like @GunnerBill and @Buffalo716 along with anyone else who can chime in.

Dorian has immense physical talent 

 

Sometimes it's the recognition and the other stuff that he lacks in

 

He does have a great combination of linebacker size and speed.. he certainly is pretty explosive 

 

I'd have to go back and watch some of his college tape again to see how his pass rushing was.. but he is better when he's just attacking 

 

So getting him closer to the line of scrimmage right on the ball might help him get involved

 

He's not going to have a bull rush like hoecht... But he might be good blitzing up the A b gap

Edited 1 hour ago by Buffalo716

[947]

26 minutes ago, elroy16 said:

They've moved Solomon inside at times as well.

Whoever they use, they have to keep up the movement up front and continue to confuse offenses as opposed to the sit back and read and react. 

 

They put Solomon into Hoecht's role after the injury. On one play when I specifically watched him, he lined up inside & brought great delayed pressure resulting in an incompletion. I agree we definitely need to keep using that role, whether it's Solomon or Dorian.

[BillsShredder83]

55 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

The Athletic Football show, the show today was about the 10 people/entities that are changing the NFL this season (very Bills-centric... the very first thing they talk about is Jackson Hawes and they spend a lot of time talking about it)...

Is this "The Players and Coaches Defining The 2025 NFL Season" episode?  Going to wrap up work checking this one out.  Man if this is true, it is absolutely BAFFLINGGGGGG decision to wait this long into the season to take over the defense!  Infuriating, and at the same time would be a crazy welcome relief.

 

We've invested over and over and over on that side, just continuously pouring in... and next to no progress to show for it.  If last week is our new floor (not insane - ton of young inexperienced out there), hell, even if thats our new ceiling, I'd sign up for that right now.  Very interesting, and I guess I'm ready to be hurt again

54 minutes ago, BillytheKid said:

It is definitely important. Since McDermott took over play calling the last 10 quarters of football played by the Bills they have given up 3 points in the 2nd half. 
 

9 points to Carolina and 21 points to What everyone thought was the best offense in the league. 8 of those came because KC converted a 4th and 17 after Hoecht went out. 
 

So they are giving up an average of 13.3 ppg with McDermott calling the defense which would rank first in the NFL.

 

Mcdermott needs to call the defense for sure and if Williams can play that position then by all means do it. Only big difference is he isn’t going to have the bull rush that Hoecht had because of the weight difference. 

Time to pound some chicken wings and hit up Hoechts connect 🤣

 

But seriously I could see him bringing some juice to the team in that role.  Hes really physical, and maybe not the most cerebral guy we have on the defense.  Its probably a fun role for someone like that too.  I'd do heinous things to recreate that Hoecht energy we saw the last 2 weeks.  If we can get even 60% of that out of a high draft pick, that would be fantastic!!  I probably need a reality check though.