Bills Don't have Receiver Problem, they have a perception problem-- Jim Kubiak BN

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

Hurts has Brown and Smith

Burrow when healthy has Chase and Higgins

Dak has CEE-DEE and Pickens

Allen has what at the WR position that would be considered elite... NOTHING!!!

 

 

And how successful would you say that formula has been for Cincy and Dallas? Who was the most important player for the Philly offense last year?

[Pete]

12 minutes ago, Psautcsk said:

If the Chiefs stop the run or we are behind by multiple scores, then what? Punt, punt, punt...

how do you do a two minute drive if your passing game is wonky?

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

And how successful would you say that formula has been for Cincy and Dallas? Who was the most important player for the Philly offense last year?

 

The Bengals did go to a Super Bowl and while Barkley was the key to the Eagles championship season, they still had a very strong team on both sides of the ball. As for the Bills they need more than Allen and Cook on offense. The need to upgrade at WR is something that needs to be done if the Bills want to get to and finally win a Super Bowl. 

[Brandon]

41 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Were you around for the 90s teams? As anyone who was should recognize that high flying offenses can be stopped and when they do your defense has to be even better to allow you to win. Give me a strong opposition that can stop the opposition every time over the latter. 

and KC has been able to stop us on our last drive the last two times we've been eliminated from the playoffs. Yes, Josh played great in those games but he still wasn't good enough. and no I'm not giving the defense a pass but hey if your defense not playing it's best than the offense has to play even better to win. 

 

The Bills have been trying to win with defense for the vast majority of the last 30 years,  with very limited success.  That includes the #1 defense in yards and points getting steamrolled for 42 by KC in the playoffs after the 2021 season.   Or the 2003 and 2004 seasons,  with top 2 defenses by yards allowed,  with the Bills finishing 15-17,  including an embarrassing 29 points allowed to Pittsburgh's backups with a chance at the playoffs on the line.  Five straight years starting in 1996 with top 10 defenses in terms of yards allowed,  missing the playoffs twice,  first round exits three times.  

 

This team is very creative.  They've thoroughly proven that there are multiple ways to lose.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 minutes ago, Psautcsk said:

If the Chiefs stop the run or we are behind by multiple scores, then what? Punt, punt, punt...

To me it seems like this whole heavy set/pound the run stuff was done primarily with the chiefs in mind.   the chiefs grabby secondary/blitz heavy approach doesn’t really have much trouble at all with stopping any combination of WRs I’ve seen and comes up with so many big plays in big moments…they’re probably the best pass defense in the league.  Feels like every time a team crosses midfield on them they get a huge turnover or sack so they give up some yards but very little points 

 

we’ll see how this weekend goes but playoffs last year the bills ran up and down the field on them for a lot of the game and that was before adding a good blocking TE.  It wasn’t like there were WRs they had to respect last year either lol 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Psautcsk]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

how do you do a two minute drive if your passing game is wonky?

Kick 58 yard field goals

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

And how successful would you say that formula has been for Cincy and Dallas? Who was the most important player for the Philly offense last year?

For Cincy, it's worked better than our formula has. They have at least gotten past KC and made a Super Bowl once. It possibly would have been better had Burrow not been injured as often as he has. Dallas has also dealt with injury to their starting QB that's hampered them. But the Cowboys and Bills have played in the same amount of Super Bowls during this stretch, so the results have been the same.

 

I know what you are looking for with the question about Philly. But the answer is actually different. Hurts was their most IMPORTANT player. Barkley was their most productive player. There is a difference. See this year for the Bills. Cook has been our most productive player...while Allen remain the most important.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, First Round Bust said:

WGR AM show brought up an interesting point yesterday...historically thrwoing the long ball (touch, loft, accuracy) has not been one of Josh strenghts...a point I have made over the years as well..partly his fault, partly the WR issue...resulting the OC play-calling not having confidence in that play and talking himself out of it ??? flame on...    

No flame, you are spot on. The soft touch rainbow bomb has never been his strength. He can connect on those 40 yard frozen ropes, though. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

The Bengals did go to a Super Bowl and while Barkley was the key to the Eagles championship season, they still had a very strong team on both sides of the ball. As for the Bills they need more than Allen and Cook on offense. The need to upgrade at WR is something that needs to be done if the Bills want to get to and finally win a Super Bowl. 

The only people talking about WR needs for the Bills are people that aren't employed in football. They're generally doing what they need to do. Would they be better with prime Diggs on the roster? Sure, I talked about the creation of a big hole when they released him. But you don't need elite WRs to win. You need consistency from the full unit. It's so incredibly early in the season that I couldn't be less concerned. Guys will get better as the season goes on. Being able to run the ball and play good defense are far more important things to be showing you can do at this juncture. There might be games where we need to throw it 40+ times down the road, and hopefully by then they'll have figured out how to adapt our scheme to the talent that we have.

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

For Cincy, it's worked better than our formula has.

They have 2 playoff appearances in the last decade and no championships. You want to swap with them?

[Fan in Chicago]

There are just so many things wrong with this line of thinking 

- we have strong armed and MVP at the wheel and not a middling QB who needs a run game to make the O hum

- a run focused offense scores slowly and has smaller margin of error

- in a scramble drill, lack of strong pass game is a liability 

- Bills D plays better when ahead and it is much harder to score twice early with a run focused game 

- a opposing D with strong front 7 immediately puts your O at a disadvantage. Also allows opposing Ds to cheat and stack the box

 

 

Anyone who is thinking the Bills are better off as a run first and run dominated offense are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. 

[Big Turk]

This is part of what I've been saying!

 

They are not taking the free yards that are being given to them anywhere near enough...

 

The one thing Dorsey did exceptionally well is have Allen take the free yards that were there...if a run was called and someone was 10 yards off the WR, Allen wouldn't even have to audible at times he would just stand up and throw a pass immediately and they would pick up an easy 5+ yards and sometimes get a first down.

 

That has gone missing and it's maddening to see guys with nobody near them at the LOS run into the coverage instead of them taking easy yards.

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Turk

[waterglass]

We as in the Buffalo Bills have a Receiver problem and its huge. This guy and the propagada mill will push all is well just like the actor in the very old movie; "Anmal House". A recent podcast [yesterday] by Steve Smith Sr. has layed out that Coleman is a BUST and several others in our receiving corps are useless. He went on to say that Allen knew it last year and tried to prop up Coleman in this years pre season and in the one game when he kept throwing tossups to Coleman along the sidelines. None worked. Take a look at ths 20 minute video as its premised on facts from a former standout wide receiver. Yes it sucks but it is what it is. 

 

Keon Coleman BUST

[DapperCam]

35 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I don’t disagree, but does Kelce make the catch Kincaid couldn’t?

 

I think we all know the answer to that. 

Kelce would have recognized it was an all out blitz because he’s a cagey veteran. He probably would have cut his route short and made himself available and no heroic dive would have been necessary. I’ve seen him do it a hundred times.

[Allen2Moulds]

I whole heartedly disagree with Kubiak's take from this perspective.

 

Football is about the key moments. Sure there are times when our guys are getting open, but in the critical situations against NE and Atlanta, they committed more guys to the line to contain and blitz Allen, and dared them to beat man to man coverage, and we struggled, on those key downs when it mattered most.

 

Adding a WR, specifically one with speed, affects how the defenses play us.

Right now, they are getting away with single high, because there's no threat. As a result, the underneath stuff is flooded with defenders.

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

We’d have multiple SB appearances if not for KC. 

And at least one but for McD.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 minutes ago, Pete said:

how do you do a two minute drive if your passing game is wonky?

Wise clock management.  That strategy seems lost on a lot of teams lately.

[Scott7975]

29 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

100%

Josh has never been a great deep ball thrower. Even many of his big downfield completions have resulted in players having to slow down, reposition, jump for the ball. It's not like watching prime Brady/Rodgers where he hits his man in stride on a Go and he runs the rest of the way in for a TD. On intermediate routes and in the redzone he's deadly, but the whole time people have been clamoring for a "deep threat", I've been wondering what exactly they're expecting us to do with them.

Yeah, I hear this a lot but Josh has hit a lot of deep balls. I think he was better when he rifled them than when he tried to start putting arc and touch on them. From 2022-2024 PFF had Josh 4th best in the league. Personally I dont pay any mind to PFF ratings but it's there.

The one year I looked, Josh was at like 44% accuracy on 20+. That may not sound great but hitting 50% is elite. Have of those attempts were probably on the run too which makes them more difficult. So maybe Josh wasn't the best in the world at it, but he wasn't terrible either. Most games you only need to hit 2-3 chunk plays like that. Josh was pretty elite on 3rd and forevers too. I remember when Daboll was the OC, there was never a 3rd and long that I didn't think Josh wouldn't convert. By 3rd and long I'm talking like 3rd and 15 or 20+. Josh has bailed us out of so many of those.

Besides that, its not so much about deep balls that are 40 yards down the field. The problem is the team is struggling to even hit intermediate passes. 15-20 yards. They need to do way better in that department.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Scott7975

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

There are just so many things wrong with this line of thinking 

- we have strong armed and MVP at the wheel and not a middling QB who needs a run game to make the O hum

- a run focused offense scores slowly and has smaller margin of error

- in a scramble drill, lack of strong pass game is a liability 

- Bills D plays better when ahead and it is much harder to score twice early with a run focused game 

- a opposing D with strong front 7 immediately puts your O at a disadvantage. Also allows opposing Ds to cheat and stack the box

 

 

Anyone who is thinking the Bills are better off as a run first and run dominated offense are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. 

What defenses play worse when ahead?
What defenses have we seen stacking the box against Josh Allen?

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes should have proven to everyone that's ever watched football that you don't win championships in the modern era by throwing the ball all over the field. You do it by controlling the clock, taking what the defense gives you, not turning the ball over, having sound defense, and having the ability to make a couple big plays a game.

The whole reason that you want a "strong armed MVP" QB is not so you can throw a football over dem mountains 40 times a game, but so that you can have 100% confidence that for the 1-2 plays you need him to be superman, he will be. The rest of the game, he should be Clark Kent. 

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Yeah, I hear this a lot but Josh has hit a lot of deep balls. I think he was better when he rifled them than when he tried to start putting arc and touch on them. From 2022-2024 PFF had Josh 4th best in the league. Personally I dont pay any mind to PFF ratings but it's there.

The one year I looked, Josh was at like 44% accuracy on 20+. That may not sound great but hitting 50% is elite. Have of those attempts were probably on the run too which makes them more difficult. So maybe Josh wasn't the best in the world at it, but he wasn't terrible either. Most games you only need to hit 2-3 chunk plays like that. Josh was pretty elite on 3rd and forevers too. I remember when Daboll was the OC, there was never a 3rd and long that I didn't think Josh wouldn't convert. By 3rd and long I'm talking like 3rd and 15 or 20+. Josh has bailed us out of so many of those.

 

A lot of those 20+ aren't what we typically think of as "deep balls" either.
There's a big difference between 44% and 50%

There's a big difference between completing the ball and completing the ball in way that enables YAC

We were at the bottom of the league in YAC for most of Josh's career.
 

[Casey D]

7 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

There are just so many things wrong with this line of thinking 

- we have strong armed and MVP at the wheel and not a middling QB who needs a run game to make the O hum

- a run focused offense scores slowly and has smaller margin of error

- in a scramble drill, lack of strong pass game is a liability 

- Bills D plays better when ahead and it is much harder to score twice early with a run focused game 

- a opposing D with strong front 7 immediately puts your O at a disadvantage. Also allows opposing Ds to cheat and stack the box

 

 

Anyone who is thinking the Bills are better off as a run first and run dominated offense are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. 

You need to take someone to task, then everyone will get it.😎

[goldenboy81]

The offense should definitely be ran through Cook,hes the second best player on the team after Allen.

 

But when you would trade this wr core with any other in the league and instantly improve, then you definitely have a wr problem.