Signing Edmunds to an extension vs. drafting Bernard and signing him to an extension

[technobot]

34 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Neither were worth an extension imo.

 

One is made of glass while the other was allergic to making splash plays

 

Have to agree with you. Bernard has been my guy and when he's on he's one of our best "splash" players. But between him and Milano, it's the same thing, always, and we end up being shorthanded and having to figure it out with what's left. A damn shame.

[Mark Vader]

Edmunds is far more athletic than Bernard.

 

Bernard is a much more gifted football player than Edmunds.

 

I think the Bills got a better deal with Bernard. He's far better at reading an offense and knows when to attack. He's a fantastic blitzer. Why the Bills don't use him more that way is beyond me. 

[GaryPinC]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

Edmunds wasn't the weakest link he was just the easiest to blame.  he was big and durable. 

 

milano always had the higher ceiling and was going to surpass him but his durability due to size was always a concern. edmunds + milano + a hybrid nickel/monster (shaq thompson) was waht the team always had in mind but went the other way getting taron johnson as the nickel who was too small to help the run.

He was durable because he avoided all hitting unless he was the one who had to make the play.

Edited 4 hours ago by GaryPinC

[Special K]

1 hour ago, technobot said:

Have to agree with you. Bernard has been my guy and when he's on he's one of our best "splash" players. But between him and Milano, it's the same thing, always, and we end up being shorthanded and having to figure it out with what's left. A damn shame.

 

Yep...the most important ability is availability.

 

Funny that the one injury-free year Milano had, he was an All-Pro LB.

[thenorthremembers]

The Bills got almost the exact amount of production for 11 million dollars a year less.   Bernard was the better choice. 

[Brand J]

Bernard did in one season what took 5 years for Edmunds to do (in terms of making splash plays). I would not have wanted Edmunds back at Bernard’s cap number, he was not the answer. Maybe Bernard isn’t either, but at least you get the occasional splash play out of him. We need bigger LBs.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Agreed with letting Edmunds walk. He is a bad football player.

I was not thrilled with Bernard extension but I dont think I was upset with it either.  I'm not going to fault Beane too much for a guy that made a ton of plays and already has a game winning INT this year. 

I'm pretty sure at the time the extensions I cared most about were Brown,  Cook, Rousseau, Shakir, and Benford in that order.  

I was against the Oliver draft pick and the extension. I hated the Epenesa extension. I liked the Knox extension at the time. He has underperformed no doubt but still one of my favorite players. Bass extension made no sense given he had another couple years on his rookie deal. 

At this point I would let Torrence walk. He is good but has not developed into a high level player worth a big second contract. He is easily replaceable. 

 

[PayDaBill$]

Bernard is too small and he’s right on pace to fill Milano’s injury ridden shoes.

 

Would it be too much to get a couple of guys in here that can have some size and physicality to their game.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

The extension for Bernard was much smaller esp as a percentage of the cap. Bernard as makes more impactful plays than Edmunds ever did. I think he's worth keeping the deal was a solid one. 

One makes splash plays, the other doesn't. One does what a LB is supposed to do (stop the run), the other doesn't. Get better DB's if you want better coverage. 

[skibum]

Edmunds was a guy who could make a legitimate impact while seemingly do nothing special. On balance, he was probably a better player to have at that position than Bernard. But he was way too expensive for what he did. I get why they moved on, but yeah it would be nice to have him in the mix. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Honestly:

 

Edmunds is more durable, but Bernard makes way more clutch and impact plays. Bernard is also way more cerebral of a player. 

[billsfan89]

4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

One makes splash plays, the other doesn't. One does what a LB is supposed to do (stop the run), the other doesn't. Get better DB's if you want better coverage. 

 

Fully agree, Edmunds isn't a bad player he's a solid one whose getting overpaid to be an elite player. Bernard is a good player getting paid relatively accurate to his production level. 

[loyal2dagame]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Tremaine Edmunds has the most INT's than any LB the last 3 years with 7.  

 

I know he was hated here but I think he might be the one major ingredient we're missing in the pass defense.

Allen once said that Edmunds makes it hard to see when throwing the ball because he was so massive in the middle.

I don't think Edmunds was hated.  He just was always out of position and would side step the ball carrier to attempt to tackle. He made some nice plays here, but wasn't worth the money he was looking to get at the time

Edited 3 hours ago by loyal2dagame

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

I don't think Edmunds was hated.  He just was always out of position and would side step the ball carrier to attempt to tackle. He made some nice plays here, but wasn't worth the money he was looking to get at the time

 

Oh he was hated.  Some posters were saying it's like we are playing with 10 players on defense.

He didn't do enough, I will agree with that.  But, he did add value to the passing game.  

[PepeSilvia]

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

The reality is that the McD scheme needs some tweaking. I would prefer we go with three thumper LBs, and some space eaters on the line. Instead, we have the smaller penetrating DLs and the quicker LBs. Even if that scheme worked, these guys like Bernard And Milano are too small and injury prone to play LB.

I think another issue is the league is cyclical. A few years ago it was a predominantly passing league so you needed quicker, penetrating d lineman and smaller lb‘s who can cover.

 

when the majority of teams start going pass heavy then the best way to counter that is to go the opposite way and start being more run oriented. Which is the direction we’re seeing the last 2-3 seasons.
 

The bills are way behind on trying

to stop teams that can run. The best d lineman is undersized and more suited to rush, which is why you see him disappear for long stretches and games at a time. There is a 220 lb, undersized mlb playing behind him who can’t get off a block.
 

On top of whiffing on top draft picks, they’ve overpaid B players like they’re A’s. 

Edited 2 hours ago by PepeSilvia

[Never NEVER Give-up]

3 hours ago, Special K said:

This is not meant to be a "hindsight" thread....the consensus of the board at the time (myself included) was that Edmunds should not be given a big money extension.....

 

However, now that Bernard has been signed to a lucrative extension, I think it's fair to revisit if it would have been better to extend Edmunds instead of using a 3rd round pick on Bernard and paying him instead.

 

We know Edmunds is weak against the run, however, I think we all underestimated his value in pass coverage......probably due to the fact that we had peak Poyer/Hyde at the time.....and didn't think of what the D might look like when they would be past their prime/retired.

 

Bernard is stronger against the run, and seems to be a good leader, but is oft-injured, and a liability in pass coverage.

 

I don't know the answer to this one, but I thought it would be an interesting discussion during the bye week after two tough losses.

 

Thoughts??

At the time - the Bills decided to extend Milano (not Bernard).  Edmunds' last year with the Bills was '22 - which was Bernard's first year.

 

In 100% hindsight - it would have made more sense to keep Edmunds and let Milano walk ONLY because of his injuries.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

17 minutes ago, PepeSilvia said:

I think another issue is the league is cyclical. A few years ago it was a predominantly passing league so you needed quicker, penetrating d lineman and smaller lb‘s who can cover.

 

when the majority of teams start going pass heavy then the best way to counter that is to  go the opposite way and start being more run oriented. Which is the direction we’re seeing the last 2-3 seasons. 

great point.

[BearNorth]

Meanwhile,admittedly limited D snaps, but Shaq Thompson is the #3 linebacker in PFF grading [#1 is Warner, who looks like is done for the year]

[PepeSilvia]

Do we forget that Edmunds wasn’t good during his Bills tenure either?. He was drafted to be more of a pass defending mlb with good coverage skills and a long reach.

 

How many times did we watch games over the years, where he was a non factor, whether it be not being able to get off blocks or being a step behind or ahead in the passing lanes?

 

Edmunds wasn’t the answer and neither is Bernard.

 

Again, this is more of a front office issue with not drafting enough top tier talented players. 

[paulmm3]

I think both Edmunds and Bernard are below average for their position. Edmunds has among the worst football IQ I've seen. Bernard is so physically slight he struggles to make an impact except the couple times a game he manages to get to the ball before a blocker gets to him. I'd have extended neither, found a replacement through the draft/FA, and spent the money possibly saved here on another position (or good LB free agent).