Do The Bills Have A Passing Game Problem?

[DapperCam]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

From "hanging"? The Bills had a 64% of winning the game with 13:45 left in the 4th. Are you trying to re-imagine a game that did not happen? That decidedly does not sound like they couldn't "hang" with them, and were tied at 29 with 3.5 minutes to go in the 4th.  As always, the defense that plays one way against KC in the regular season but completely differently in the playoffs rears it's ugly head.  Of course, the only time KC scored more than 30 points all year was against the Bills in the playoffs.

The Bills need a downfield passing game because the defense is bad in the playoffs. No argument from me that a bad defense is the #1 reason the Bills have failed in the playoffs, but we're likely going to see more of the same this season. We need to be able to do both things: run the ball and control the game, push the ball downfield and have moderate success on intermediate throws. It is a basic fact that passing is more efficient than running in terms of EPA/play. It is also a fact that it is very hard to grind out first downs playing small ball against a good defense.

[Real McClappy]

In 3 games the Bills are averaging 163yds per game running the Ball.  Why do we need to be pass happy?

[balln]

5 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

The Bills need a downfield passing game because the defense is bad in the playoffs. No argument from me that a bad defense is the #1 reason the Bills have failed in the playoffs, but we're likely going to see more of the same this season. We need to be able to do both things: run the ball and control the game, push the ball downfield and have moderate success on intermediate throws. It is a basic fact that passing is more efficient than running in terms of EPA/play. It is also a fact that it is very hard to grind out first downs playing small ball against a good defense.

This x a million. Were are like this bc their D sucks. And will suck a lot vs good offenses in the playoffs. And we’re not gonna get it done w small ball conservative. If our defense was top 5-10 I wouldn’t be crushing on the offensive scheme and lack of structured passing game. This is the perfect offense for a good defensive team. 
 

we will need to win w quick strike / structured passes to wr on traditional routes - at least show the ability from time to time within a game . Not just scrambling and improv all the time. 

[BillytheKid]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Whereas I think more of our drives would stall out if we went more pass heavy. The personnel is built to run. An OL that is better at run blocking than pass blocking, the most explosive skill player is a RB, we have 3 TEs that can block including one who might already be the best blocking TE in the NFL. Cook breaking an explosive run has been the best indicator that the drive is going to end in a TD. I quibble a bit with Brady's persistent run calls but I can't really blame him. He's using the ingredients he has.

Well you can’t get more stalled out then going 3 straight 3 and outs to the Miami dolphins.

 

Not one pass over 10 yards last night. First time in Allen’s career.

 

Im not saying they have to make it so pass heavy that it’s all passing. They can still run the ball. Just think they should let Josh throw it more than they do. 

4 hours ago, nuiwek said:

Josh doesn't care if he looks like a middle of the road quarterback. Why do you?

For one thing if they threw the Ball more they score more points and they don’t get 3 straight 3 and outs to the Dolphins. 
 

They didn’t even throw one pass 10 yards last night. 
 

When you have the one of the two best QB’s in the league you don’t make him look like he is middle of the road. You use him more. 

[MPL]

13 hours ago, NoSaint said:

13 hours ago, MPL said:

3 years ago the Bills were the worst YAC team. Everything was a deep

shot or nothing. And everyone here complained about it. Well, now we’re all YAC YAC YAC and everyone’s complaining about that, too. You can’t have both!

 

why can’t you have both?

because what the frick would we complain about? 

[colin]

we are ball control on o, we have a sick OL and run game, so that's the story so far on o (aside from cracking 30 points every time they play a game, and no TOs).

 

i think we have a bit of a pass game identity and outside wr problem.  we don't have anyone who can stress the d deep.  a nico collins or that scary terry guy in dc would make this o look like a madden game.  we don't have that tho, and while coleman is showing improve he's just not there yet.

 

i think we need to shift even more to the multiple TE sets.  aside from maybe the ravens or eagles who can just body up on any team, i don't think many nfl teams do much against that.

[Figster]

When your passing problem is running the ball to well it's just not right.

 

This is all James Cooks fault😡 

[folz]

4 hours ago, T.E. said:

Those NE teams had awesome defenses.

Again, Brady routinely had top 5 defenses. We have a defense that is ass. Score points.

This opponent was on the verge of winning with fewer than three minutes left.

 

It's week 3. The defense has a lot of new parts. Give them a little time to come together.  Plus, we are 3-0 and the Bills defense held the Jets to 150 total yards and  they held the Dolphins to 276 total yards. And Baltimore has one of the best offenses in the league. It hasn't been as bad as some of you guys are making it out to be. I'm not saying this defense will be "awesome" but they will get better. btw, our horrible, horrible defense from last year was 11th in points allowed, not that bad...and the defense should be much better this year (as the season wears on). 

 

And how was Miami on the verge of winning? They never regained the lead after Buffalo tied it up with 4-1/2 minutes left in the first quarter. And if Bernard does not intercept that pass and Miami scores a TD there, the game is tied (Miami wouldn't have had the lead). So, the game would have been tied and Josh Allen would have had 3-4 minutes to go and close out the game. I wouldn't call tying the score with almost 4 minutes left in the game as "on the verge of winning." Maybe if it was a go-ahead TD you could say that, but then Josh still would have had 3-4 minutes to win the game. Oh and btw, they didn't actually tie up the game, because our defense came through with a turnover. But I guess that was just luck (not TB doing prep with his coach), and the defense gets no credit for closing out the game.

 

I just don't know what you guys are expecting. It's like you expect every game to be 31- 3 or 31-7 and anything worse than that means our team sucks. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

52 minutes ago, balln said:

This x a million. Were are like this bc their D sucks. And will suck a lot vs good offenses in the playoffs. And we’re not gonna get it done w small ball conservative. If our defense was top 5-10 I wouldn’t be crushing on the offensive scheme and lack of structured passing game. This is the perfect offense for a good defensive team. 
 

we will need to win w quick strike / structured passes to wr on traditional routes - at least show the ability from time to time within a game . Not just scrambling and improv all the time. 

I thought the D (while not totally sucking) did not look very good last night.  The offense moved the ball well because we have a great offensive line when it comes to run blocking, and our receivers are good in space when we get them the ball.  But we do need to open things up more vertically.  The offense seems constrained to a 12 yard area vertically from the line of scrimmage, and across to both sidelines.  That seems counterintuitive with a QB like Josh Allen.

5 minutes ago, folz said:

 

It's week 3. The defense has a lot of new parts. Give them a little time to come together.  Plus, we are 3-0 and the Bills defense held the Jets to 150 total yards and  they held the Dolphins to 276 total yards. And Baltimore has one of the best offenses in the league. It hasn't been as bad as some of you guys are making it out to be. I'm not saying this defense will be "awesome" but they will get better. btw, our horrible, horrible defense from last year was 11th in points allowed, not that bad...and the defense should be much better this year (as the season wears on). 

 

And how was Miami on the verge of winning? They never regained the lead after Buffalo tied it up with 4-1/2 minutes left in the first quarter. And if Bernard does not intercept that pass and Miami scores a TD there, the game is tied (Miami wouldn't have had the lead). So, the game would have been tied and Josh Allen would have had 3-4 minutes to go and close out the game. I wouldn't call tying the score with almost 4 minutes left in the game as "on the verge of winning." Maybe if it was a go-ahead TD you could say that, but then Josh still would have had 3-4 minutes to win the game. Oh and btw, they didn't actually tie up the game, because our defense came through with a turnover. But I guess that was just luck (not TB doing prep with his coach), and the defense gets no credit for closing out the game.

 

I just don't know what you guys are expecting. It's like you expect every game to be 31- 3 or 31-7 and anything worse than that means our team sucks. 

I think Miami would have ran the clock down if we did not make the interception (a hell of a read by Bernard btw) causing us to burn our TO's and probably would have scored with less than 2 minutes to go.  And I think they would have gone for 2 to try and win the game, the way our defense was having trouble stopping them in crucial situations.  That being said, a huge play by Bernard to make the pick!!

[balln]

5 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

I thought the D (while not totally sucking) did not look very good last night.  The offense moved the ball well because we have a great offensive line when it comes to run blocking, and our receivers are good in space when we get them the ball.  But we do need to open things up more vertically.  The offense seems constrained to a 12 yard area vertically from the line of scrimmage, and across to both sidelines.  That seems counterintuitive with a QB like Josh Allen.

Im pretty confident saying sucking because. Aside from bosa and ed and their forced fumbles And Bernard getting an INT (needs turnovers). They can’t stop the run consistently, up the middle, misdirection, outside. All of it. They’re poor tacklers. They lack overall team speed. Pass rush / sacks are few and far between. Our blitzes are just awful. It’s still safeties and taron blitzing late and from deep. 
 

Last night against the worst OL in the league. They had zero sacks. Tua had 1 or 2 long run scrambles for first downs.( yes tua). Can’t guard the flats still. And 3 rd down d. Really bad defensive conversion on 3rd and 4th last night. Vs the dolphins. It looked and felt most of the time like watching Mahommes and chiefs games ending our playoffs 

[folz]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

And I don't think it shocks anyone that this is playing out again.  2025 isn't 2024, but there are some similarities to the start of this season with last.   

 

Thankfully, there's no Baltimore or Kansas City-level opponent to play anywhere soon.  I just wonder when defenses will adjust and if they do, even a lesser team, if Buffalo will have a bad game.  

 

You were responding to Kirby in regards to him saying "When everything happens within 10 yards of the LOS the defenses will adjust."

 

But, can you please show me where defenses adjusted last year?

From week 7 on last season (discounting week 17 when all of our starters rested), our offensive point totals were: 34, 31, 30, 30, 30, 35, 42, 48, 24, 40...and in the playoffs: 31, 27, and 29. Our record in those games was 11-3. 

 

Can you guys please point out to me when defenses caught up to our offense last season and started to shut us down last year? And to start this season we have scored 41, 30, and 31.

 

And people are complaining about this offense? I honestly do not understand.

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, folz said:

 

You were responding to Kirby in regards to him saying "When everything happens within 10 yards of the LOS the defenses will adjust."

 

But, can you please show me where defenses adjusted last year?

From week 7 on last season (discounting week 17 when all of our starters rested), our offensive point totals were: 34, 31, 30, 30, 30, 35, 42, 48, 24, 40...and in the playoffs: 31, 27, and 29. Our record in those games was 11-3. 

 

Can you guys please point out to me when defenses caught up to our offense last season and started to shut us down last year? And to start this season we have scored 41, 30, and 31.

 

And people are complaining about this offense? I honestly do not understand.

When they got stopped on the biggest drive of the year…

 

I actually just thought of what my point is. I would rather invest prime assets at pass catcher even if it means giving up an extra 100 points on the year, if in exchange, it increases the chances of 1 score vs. KC/Baltimore, in the playoffs, by 20%. Maybe that’s the crux of the point? It hasn’t been good enough when it matters. I don’t care how good things are vs. Miami, in September at this point. We are beyond that mattering.

Edited September 19 by Kirby Jackson

[folz]

40 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

I thought the D (while not totally sucking) did not look very good last night.  The offense moved the ball well because we have a great offensive line when it comes to run blocking, and our receivers are good in space when we get them the ball.  But we do need to open things up more vertically.  The offense seems constrained to a 12 yard area vertically from the line of scrimmage, and across to both sidelines.  That seems counterintuitive with a QB like Josh Allen.

I think Miami would have ran the clock down if we did not make the interception (a hell of a read by Bernard btw) causing us to burn our TO's and probably would have scored with less than 2 minutes to go.  And I think they would have gone for 2 to try and win the game, the way our defense was having trouble stopping them in crucial situations.  That being said, a huge play by Bernard to make the pick!!

 

The Dolphins were on the 21 yard line with 3:06 left in the game, down 7 points. The Bills had two timeouts left, plus the two minute warning. How much clock could the Dolphins run? Even if they took six plays from there and scored, the clock would have stopped at least three times (plus any incomplete passes). There still would have been time for Josh to just get in field goal range.

 

So, IF Bernard does not make the pick

and IF the Dolphins can run clock AND still score a TD

and IF they go for a two-point conversion and make it

and IF they can stop Josh from getting in field goal range with at least say 1-1/2 minutes left

 

Then yes, they were on the verge of winning...but it takes a lot of ifs to make that statement.

[Magox]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They played a fair amount of cover 2, but I didn't chart it play by play or anything.

 

[BillsVet]

38 minutes ago, folz said:

 

You were responding to Kirby in regards to him saying "When everything happens within 10 yards of the LOS the defenses will adjust."

 

But, can you please show me where defenses adjusted last year?

From week 7 on last season (discounting week 17 when all of our starters rested), our offensive point totals were: 34, 31, 30, 30, 30, 35, 42, 48, 24, 40...and in the playoffs: 31, 27, and 29. Our record in those games was 11-3. 

 

Can you guys please point out to me when defenses caught up to our offense last season and started to shut us down last year? And to start this season we have scored 41, 30, and 31.

 

And people are complaining about this offense? I honestly do not understand.

 

The answer for this comes down to how you interpret when and why Buffalo traded for Amari Cooper last year.  

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, kkim0904 said:

It is our defense, not offense.  Our running defense is mediocre and Miami converted 10/15 Third down.. 

 

So then what is the solution? In a vacuum I agree the defense has been the bigger problem. But we just spent the offseason pouring almost all of our resources into that side of the ball, and so far this year it looks exactly the same as last year. We'll occasionally beat up on a vastly inferior opponent with bad QB play, but against any decent offense we are giving up chunk plays and 3rd down conversions almost at will. Just like last year timely turnovers are the only thing stopping it from being a complete massacre.

 

The conversation always turns into a question of which side is performing better, but the real question is which side deserves investments? We have seen defensive investments go to waste and have no measurable impact on the outcome of the game. Meanwhile offensive investments tend to have an immediate impact because they happen to be on the field with the best player in the world.

 

So it comes down to - do we try to build the team around McDermott and Babich, or do we build it around Allen? Early returns on the season tell us that spending a 2nd round pick and salary on DK Metcalf would have been a better use than spending those resources on TJ Sanders and Greg Rousseau. Yet year after year we are choosing the second option and nobody should be surprised when the product looks the same.

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, Magox said:

Over the years I have learned to not get as frustrated about fans behaviors, typically they are very emotional and irrational, but to criticize the #1 offense in the league in many metrics, a team that wins, a team that is balanced, a team that doesn't turn it over, a team that scores a lot, a team who is consistent whether its in the regular season or playoffs is just beyond stupid.

I am far from a negative nancy around here.  If anything Im guilty of drinking the KoolAid too much.  I truly never come into a game thinking we might lose.  I like all our draft picks almost immediately.  I have not been a 'FIRE MCD!' guy ever, aside from that night game loss to Russ Wilson & Broncos, where playoffs looked to be on the line game... and i softened my stance on it entirely after we beat the Eagles the next week, 'he hadnt lost the locker room."

 

My concern, is in no way about the regular season.  Im pretty dang confident we will FINALLY lock up the 1 seed.  My concern, has been viewing every game through a playoff lens. What our regular season performance, indicates about our future playoff performance.

 

That said "team that is balanced"?  Depends on how you define balance I guess.  ~50/50 run vs pass sounds like the definition most are using here, that are saying "balanced".  I actually very much like that ratio! Where things go wrong IMO (go wrong in playoffs, not week 3 vs MIA), is how we break down that balance of those 50% of throws.

 

Right now, and admittedly its early, but this trend has run through recent playoff performances as well.... seems to be:

~85% short passes

15% intermediate

0% deep

 

Its frustrating to read hyperbolic responses about this criticism as "wOuLd yOu rAthEr Be tHe bEnGaLs?!?"  When what 95% of people in the same boat as me mean is a balanced passing attack (there is a 5% blowhard community that should be ignored).  This 85/15/0 split makes the offense have to labor to get the jobs done at times, and where it appears most ugly, is in the playoffs.  No we dont need to score 50 points!  

 

What we need is a fairly small modification of 85/15/0, for our own good.  D-coordinators (Spagnola - satan incarnate) have been allowed to crowd the line, and over commit to clogging the LOS with bodies.  Generally we're good enough to over compensate for this, but thats the laboring were talking about.  Josh can move and protect the ball pretty damn well on the intermediate stuff, that area of the field needs more targeting, for multiple reasons - including that Allen is the most dominant intermediate passer in the NFL, maybe ever.

We need to work out the kinks in the regular season. We're not asking for 50/25/25 here... Were asking for a more balanced passing game.  We're attacking such a small area of the field, and still effective at it.... balancing things out just a smidge will improve our efficiency at the things we already do well to:

-- Cook is going to break off more long ones/hit HR's 

--These 10 YARD YAC plays we see so often out of Khalil, are going to start converting at a higher clip of 40 yd YAC chunk plays.

 

[UKBillFan]

The two back-to-back injuries to the Fins defensive players mid way through the second quarter seemed to throw the Bills offense completely. Or maybe it gave the Fins a moment to reset. Immediately, we had the stymied Cook run folllowed by Josh being sacked and Prater's miss. Even with two more TDs and a FG, I don't think thje offense looked as settled as the opening quarter for the rest of the game.

[GASabresIUFan]

2 hours ago, Figster said:

When your passing problem is running the ball to well it's just not right.

 

This is all James Cooks fault😡 

Yep, we should have never extended him.  How dare the Bills control the clock while scoring 30 points a game.  Just flat out dumb.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

 

But wait - I read on here that this is all McD and Brady’s doing and it is just going to frustrate Josh.

 

Now Brady is praising Josh for making those decisions- it can’t be.

 

🤦‍♂️