Keon haters….

[SCBills]

Still want to see Keon win consistently in structure.  If he can do that, we’re talking legitimate WR1 ability. 
 

Thats not all on him either.. Its on Brady putting him in good position and Allen learning how to throw to him on 50/50 balls. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

18 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The bills scramble drill is actually pretty well structured and probably a lot of the reason why Coleman is on the team tbh 

 

once he hits his stride I don’t think there will be too many guys better than him at coming back to the football and boxing out a defender on that kind of play 

 

Recall when Diggs first came to Buffalo, Allen was quoted as saying I told Diggs there are 3 things I want in a WR, catch the ball, get open and can't recall the 3rd, but wasn't anything much.  So yes Allen likes the "Get open" type of guy, go wherever you need to get open.

 

Recall reading last spring that Hollins had a reputation of not running his routes exactly and free lanced often. That may be why the Bills didn't sign him.  While Allen may like that type of mindset, for the most part coaches don't. Diggs was good enough that the team put up with, but Hollins wasn't.

[NewEra]

41 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Keon aside, that play selection on the 2 pt attempt to try and tie the game was so frustrating to me. They needed to use space, bodies and movement to create an advantage in that situation. 

I feel ya, but I love that they had the confidence in him to call that.  They had an advantage in physicality by shear size.  I would love for the outside shoulder throw/fade to Keon to be a staple in our offense.  Josh just needs to improve his consistency with his placement

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I feel ya, but I love that they had the confidence in him to call that.  They had an advantage in physicality by shear size.  I would love for the outside shoulder throw/fade to Keon to be a staple in our offense.  Josh just needs to improve his consistency with his placement

It's definitely coming 

 

Josh has never had that type of guy so his actual back shoulder fade is not that great right now.. it's something he could actually improve on 

 

But once he gets it down which I'm sure he is trying very hard in practice it's going to be very tough to stop

[NewEra]

47 minutes ago, Jalan81 said:

Hard to say the DB had a full hold of the jersey on the right shoulder he may not have been able to jump or get right hand up, should’ve been called. 

Idk- after watching it several times I came away thinking that with better placement we had a good chance at 2.  

[Alphadawg7]

On the 2 point try, Allen threw a bad ball on what was already a bad play call that neutralizes Allens super power which is Allens legs, play extension, and power.  

 

But the throw was poor, and Allen knew it and wanted that throw back.  The whole point to throw that ball is that Keon has size advantage and strength advantage.  But Allen did not throw the ball to where those things factored in -- instead he threw a liner right to the midsection where a very handsy Wiggins was there to disrupt the play.  Where Allen put the ball took it from a play where we can have the advantage and positive odds to convert and made it a low percentage conversion attempt.  

 

That ball needs to be high and over the top or high and to the outside of Keon to where he use his size to box out the defender and can go get the ball, not a low trajectory shot to the meat of a smaller defender in Keons mid section.  

 

Poorly executed by Allen - uncalled PI by Wiggins - and terrible play call by Brady.  There was a lot wrong with that play not related to Keon.  In fact, you could use the film on this play to show exactly how not to execute it.  But even with the poor throw, it was still a way worse decision.  Any play where you have Allen just throwing off the snap to a locked on target you are adding too much variance where its conversion is entirely dependent on too many variables while taking away all the things Allen does best.  And as much as I love Allen, this exact type of play has been one we have always poorly executed.  

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

He really seems to struggle with short yardage situations in tight quarters (i.e. from the 10yrd line in).

 

In those situations I always want Allen with the ball in his hands for at least 2 seconds. I hate the immediate read where you're relying on the defensive play call to be wrong, or a pass catcher to win their 1v1 matchup. I'd rather Allen have the ball with the ability to run it in or do his patented scramble right until someone breaks open. Run the fade on 1st or 2nd, I'm fine with that. On 3rd/4th or a 2PC don't make it so that somebody other than Allen decides the play.

[Mikie2times]

20 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

They're too busy discussing his 40 time 😎

That was a slow response

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, Bockeye said:

Stupid to act like there wasn’t.  Go read some of the posts when we drafted him.  

 

Also, lmao, he wasn’t awful last year.  He put up OK numbers and was injured - no awful.  Just a bad take.  

Those takes that were made when we drafted him were totally valid at the time. Him evolving as a player is not a part of that equation. No one would be calling him trash if what we drafted was what we saw yesterday. He was a million miles away from that as a rookie.

This is just a really lazy take, and I shouldn't have even taken the bait.

[Chandler#81]

He was literally mugged on his 2nd 2pt conversion try. Damn near had his jersey yanked off. How that wasn’t a penalty is baffling.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Those takes that were made when we drafted him were totally valid at the time. Him evolving as a player is not a part of that equation.

 

You don't think projecting a player's evolution is part of the draft evaluation?

[BullBuchanan]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You don't think projecting a player's evolution is part of the draft evaluation?

I do when it follows a smooth curve, or there's precedent for the growth - like say with Walker needing to get healthy and get some better coaching. When a player experiences exponential growth that no one saw coming (because if they did he would have gone early in the first round), it comes off as disingenuous when people with no skin in the game try to bring out the "I told you so"'s and glom on to their success. Be happy for Coleman and happy for the Bills, but I'm not going to acknowledge someone's premonition that he'd immediately blossom after a single offseason where he caught 50% of his targets the year before.

Edit - for the record, I thought he had promise as a pick: 

I just don't like the lazy attack.

Edited September 9 by BullBuchanan

[BigDingus]

Well, he didn't really do much through 3 quarters, but he certainly delivered by the game's end. I'm not a Keon hater by any means, but I still have no idea if he's capable of being a legit WR1. 

 

I've said that I have high expectations for him this season, but that's about it. Unlike with Elam (who I always thought wasn't good), and despite his 8 minute 40 time, I'm optimistic when it comes to Keon.

 

However, I think him & Allen need to work on taking advantage of his height & reach a bit more.

 

The announce team made a good point during one of those back shoulder throws in the endzone. Keon would probably have a better chance to score if Josh can place the ball high & let him use that size to jump over the smaller defenders. 

 

Get that ball placement right & it won't matter if it takes him a full quarter to run a route. 

[Rocky Landing]

7 hours ago, Whites Bay said:

It's probably been mentioned in the thread, but I wanted to chime in.  I'm watching a replay of the game as I await MNF.  Just got to the tipped-ball-TD with about 4:00-ish remaining.  Did anyone notice what he did after what was probably his trickiest and most challenging catch of the game?

 

He flipped the ball to a sideline guy and trotted back to the bench.  There was no showboating, no choreographed moves, no histrionics, no fireworks.  Just "Yeah, job done".

 

It was like Barry Sanders.  I just love this kid.  You doubters can keep up your service to this board and fan base.  Rock on.  I love this kid.

When we first drafted him, I started going over his college tape to get a bead on him. When he arrived at Florida State from Michigan, his very first catch as a Seminole went for a touchdown. That’s a pretty big deal, and all his teammates ran into the end zone to celebrate with him. As he was celebrating, out of the corner of his eye, he saw the ref approaching the ball. Keon stopped what he was doing, and quickly reached down for the ball, and handed it to the ref. It was just a small courtesy, but I thought it spoke volumes to his character. It was utterly second nature for him, but at such a huge moment in his life. He’s a guy you love to root for.

[Spiderweb]

9 hours ago, Jalan81 said:

probably worst take in the board today. That was a clear penalty on Baltimore. 

His job was to run his route across the back of the end zone illegal contact is not his fault, the refs blew that call. 

It was definitely his fault. The level of contact was not egregious. Again, he has to NOT allow that to happen, and yes I have rewatched the play more than just a few times (NFL+).

[eball]

Do we really need to take victory laps or make definitive judgments about this young player after one week?  Can we just say he had a great 4th quarter that helped the team win and it looks like he and Josh are building some trust and a connection?

 

The “instant gratification” mentality of some fans is tiring.

 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

23 hours ago, Brandon said:

 

I disagree.  If he had scored,  it would have given the Ravens one more chance against our defense.   The fact that he got tackled inside the 10 was the best possible outcome on the play.  

Very similar to Fred Jackson being tackled at the one yard line in the 2011 game against the Patriots. Never leave them time on the clock. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Not a hater by any stretch.

 

But I need to see more of this before I am convinced he's more than a 2.

 

[Billsatlastin2018]

Not a Coleman hater at all and don’t really care about his speed or lack thereof.

 

What I do want him to do as a tall, athletic target is to:

a) separate;

b) catch all targeted balls- contested as well;

c) stay healthy.

 

Achieve all that at an 85% rate and all is well.

[starrymessenger]

3 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Not a Coleman hater at all and don’t really care about his speed or lack thereof.

 

What I do want him to do as a tall, athletic target is to:

a) separate;

b) catch all targeted balls- contested as well;

c) stay healthy.

 

Achieve all that at an 85% rate and all is well.

Re separation people harp on his pedestrian 40 time as if that was all she wrote. But all that means for certain is that he's not going to gain separation in the same way that Brian Thomas will. If he's going to separate it's going to be because of route running taking into account his particular physical attributes. As a 20 year old kid with limited college experience coming into the league it's hardly surprising that his routes are in need of development. Could be that explains why the Bills pretty much had him doing the same thing all day long last year which given the predictability did him few favours imo.