Keon Coleman success by route - Not pretty

[Pete]

14 hours ago, FLFan said:

They play different positions, but don’t let that stop you.

 

McConkey is a WR who lined up in the slot 70% of the time.  Coleman is a WR who lined up in the slot 11% of the time.  They are not that different.  Its not like one is a Nose Tackle and the other is a Kicker

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

This kid is gonna have a breakout year and it will be enjoyable to watch some of

you morons squirm.

We cheer for Keon and Dalton.  Both have failed us numerous times.  Both were overdrafted.  We can be disappointed. We have rational brains, and are not morons, obviously.,  We hope we are wrong, and Keon and Dalton have a fantastic 2025, and awesome, long Bills careers.  There is a thin line between hope and folly

[artmalibu]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

McConkey is a WR who lined up in the slot 70% of the time.  Coleman is a WR who lined up in the slot 11% of the time.  They are not that different.  Its not like one is a Nose Tackle and the other is a Kicker

 

 

I guess is math was not your best subject.... lol

[BarleyNY]

44 minutes ago, Pete said:

McConkey is a WR who lined up in the slot 70% of the time.  Coleman is a WR who lined up in the slot 11% of the time.  They are not that different.  Its not like one is a Nose Tackle and the other is a Kicker

I guess it would’ve been just as easy for the Bills to have drafted McConkey and played him out of position on the outside as it was for them to draft Coleman to play him out of position on the outside. That’s where the “no slot WR” argument falls on its face. McConkey wasn’t a fit because he’s a slot WR. Okay. Fine. Reasonable argument there. But then taking a Big Slot in Coleman is not justifiable either. It fails the same test. 

Edited 4 hours ago by BarleyNY

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, Capco said:

 

I tend to agree with you philosophically.  But on the flip side, didn't Andre Reed play mostly out of the slot?  Production is production, regardless of where it comes from, right?

To me Andre invented the slot receiver position

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, starrymessenger said:

Yeah we all remember the hit he took from the two Jets DBs. One of the worse things I've ever seen on a football field (next to Hamlin).

I agree that Boldin is an outlier obviously.  And every big slow receiver gets compared to him without justification.

Where I might disagree with you is in thinking that (without actually being Boldin) he cannot have a very productive career having learned to do the kinds of things that Boldin did. I think I saw enuf from him last year before injury to conclude that it is not unreasonable to project him that way. Boldin was rare. Coleman is a rare specimen.

 

I think finding a path for Coleman to find success is important. I really struggle to see any path to that happening on the outside, especially at X. Palmer got brought in to be our floor at X. Keon is going to compete with him for snaps there.

 

So what about Y or Z? Better fits than X IMO, especially slot (Y). But I lump them together because he’ll be competing with Moore and Samuel at Z (and both can play Y too). Plus he’ll have competition from Shakir (slot) and Kincaid (big slot) at Y.

 

So the bad news for Coleman is at his best shot at playing time is probably X, where he is the least well suited, and the slot position, where he is best suited, is the most crowded. The good news for the Bills is that the WR corps is deep everywhere except X and that won’t matter much if Palmer comes through.

 

As for what Coleman needs to do developmentally, I’d recommend watching Steve Smith’s breakdown posted by @Starr Almighty  

[njbuff]

7/8’s of this fan base would have thrown Eric Moulds to the wolves after his rookie season.

 

I swear, most of you have the patience of a rattlesnake.

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, balln said:

Then maybe the pick should have been Ladd. Don’t resign Shakir. Then there’s more $ for other players or James cook. It just gets back to roster building for me. You pick the best player available because the dominos that fall year to year either way have a big impact. 
 

instead beane picked based on need. Again.
 

time will tell. But Coleman is going to be worse gave Davis type target black hole if the bills keep playing him outside. 

Shakir is one of the best slot guys in the NFL right now…so you’re philosophy was to just get rid of our best WR and replace him with a rookie still leaving the same holes elsewhere in the WR room?  When we drafted Keon our WR was small too.  So last year it would have been 3 slot WRs and Mack Hollins just to let Shakir walk this year so you can say we drafted Ladd?
 

No disrespect, but I’m not sure how that makes any sense.  The move last year was instead of looking to make a small trade back to recoup the 3rd we lost on Rasul, it should have been to try and make the small move up to get BTJ.  If anyone wants to complain THAT is the complaint or second guess.  Not Ladd, not Worthy.  
 

But last year we had massive dead cap, we had a ton of veteran turnover.  It was supposed to be a mini retool year to clean the cap and age out our older guys.  Which he did, so I get why he preferred trading back whether it proves to be right or wrong decision.  We needed to add people to the roster.  

 

And on top of that, our WR room isn’t the group it is because of Shakirs contract which is a bargain for him.  And Cook is playing still here his year, doesn’t mean we won’t or can’t still resign him.  Beane has already said they will resume talks later this year after halting heading into the draft.  

[Don Otreply]

Having his wrist broken , and recovering absolutely would have zero effect on catch percentage.,., 

 

Ya can’t fix stupid, 

[MasterStrategist]

3 hours ago, BillsDad51 said:

Not doubting your post, but where did you see he put on more muscle and looks quicker this offseason? 

In person

[starrymessenger]

36 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I think finding a path for Coleman to find success is important. I really struggle to see any path to that happening on the outside, especially at X. Palmer got brought in to be our floor at X. Keon is going to compete with him for snaps there.

 

So what about Y or Z? Better fits than X IMO, especially slot (Y). But I lump them together because he’ll be competing with Moore and Samuel at Z (and both can play Y too). Plus he’ll have competition from Shakir (slot) and Kincaid (big slot) at Y.

 

So the bad news for Coleman is at his best shot at playing time is probably X, where he is the least well suited, and the slot position, where he is best suited, is the most crowded. The good news for the Bills is that the WR corps is deep everywhere except X and that won’t matter much if Palmer comes through.

 

As for what Coleman needs to do developmentally, I’d recommend watching Steve Smith’s breakdown posted by @Starr Almighty  

I hear ya (and Steve). We shall see. 

[Kirby Jackson]

16 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Coleman needs to improve, as most rookies do going into their second year.  Beane has said this especially with respect to his play after coming back from injury.  Why assume he won’t?

Why assume he will? That’s what his chart looked like from college too. We all HOPE that Keon improves. I don’t think that we all EXPECT Keon to improve.
 

He was a high ceiling and low floor prospect coming out. His physical skills could make him a very good WR. His flaws are significantly greater than those guys drafted around him. His ceiling is a Pro Bowl receiver. His floor is out of the league in a couple of years because he can’t get open. Through 1 year, he was exactly as advertised. He’s a poor route runner who gets no separation. He’s a big target that runs well after the catch. He has good ball skills when the ball is in the air. He is in way too many contested catch situations because he doesn’t get any space. All of that is true. Who he ends up as a player is TBD. I don’t expect him to improve or not improve. I hope that he improves because the Bills absolutely need him to grow into a quality WR.

[RoscoeParrish]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Shakir is one of the best slot guys in the NFL right now…so you’re philosophy was to just get rid of our best WR and replace him with a rookie still leaving the same holes elsewhere in the WR room?  When we drafted Keon our WR was small too.  So last year it would have been 3 slot WRs and Mack Hollins just to let Shakir walk this year so you can say we drafted Ladd?
 

No disrespect, but I’m not sure how that makes any sense.  The move last year was instead of looking to make a small trade back to recoup the 3rd we lost on Rasul, it should have been to try and make the small move up to get BTJ.  If anyone wants to complain THAT is the complaint or second guess.  Not Ladd, not Worthy.  
 

But last year we had massive dead cap, we had a ton of veteran turnover.  It was supposed to be a mini retool year to clean the cap and age out our older guys.  Which he did, so I get why he preferred trading back whether it proves to be right or wrong decision.  We needed to add people to the roster.  

 

And on top of that, our WR room isn’t the group it is because of Shakirs contract which is a bargain for him.  And Cook is playing still here his year, doesn’t mean we won’t or can’t still resign him.  Beane has already said they will resume talks later this year after halting heading into the draft.  

Are you convinced Shakir is better than Ladd?

[Billl]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Shakir is one of the best slot guys in the NFL right now…so you’re philosophy was to just get rid of our best WR and replace him with a rookie still leaving the same holes elsewhere in the WR room?  When we drafted Keon our WR was small too.  So last year it would have been 3 slot WRs and Mack Hollins just to let Shakir walk this year so you can say we drafted Ladd?

You wouldn’t have had to let Shakir walk after this year.  He could have been traded for a fourth which could have then been sent to Seattle along with a second for DK Metcalf.  The $25 million a year that will be used to pay Shakir and Palmer could have nearly paid for it.

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why assume he will? That’s what his chart looked like from college too. We all HOPE that Keon improves. I don’t think that we all EXPECT Keon to improve.
 

He was a high ceiling and low floor prospect coming out. His physical skills could make him a very good WR. His flaws are significantly greater than those guys drafted around him. His ceiling is a Pro Bowl receiver. His floor is out of the league in a couple of years because he can’t get open. Through 1 year, he was exactly as advertised. He’s a poor route runner who gets no separation. He’s a big target that runs well after the catch. He has good ball skills when the ball is in the air. He is in way too many contested catch situations because he doesn’t get any space. All of that is true. Who he ends up as a player is TBD. I don’t expect him to improve or not improve. I hope that he improves because the Bills absolutely need him to grow into a quality WR.

I repeat, why assume he won’t?

[Bruffalo]

5 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

I don't belive that is how probability and statistics work.

I did say “unscientifically”, to be fair. 
 

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

Are you convinced Shakir is better than Ladd?

 

Time will tell, but Shakir was already on the roster and one of our better players on offense. If you let him walk, you are just creating an hole to fill and hoping McConkey turns out to be as good or a bit better. We hope our guys develop and earn a second contract, and that’s what happened here. 

 

BTW - We see a lot of UGA football and I was a big McConkey fan. I just didn’t know how he would make sense for the Bills. 

[JerseyBills]

Keon and Ceedee 

 

 

[RoscoeParrish]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Time will tell, but Shakir was already on the roster and one of our better players on offense. If you let him walk, you are just creating an hole to fill and hoping McConkey turns out to be as good or a bit better. We hope our guys develop and earn a second contract, and that’s what happened here. 

 

BTW - We see a lot of UGA football and I was a big McConkey fan. I just didn’t know how he would make sense for the Bills. 

What do you mean “let Shakir walk?” He’s under contract and was under contract last year.

[extrahammer]

I assumed he was drafted for red zone and scramble drills bc of his athleticism. His route running is some of the most dramatic and telling ways of running routes I've ever seen. He leans too far in with his chest, tries to get low when he's making a cut, he also starts peddling his feet, it's a dead giveaway, that's why I think most of his catches are jump balls. I thought he played well until the injury, Poyer really lit him up.