The 2nd and 9 endzone shot to Shakir

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

I’ll never change my mind that this wasn’t a bad decision. I disagree with the OP. As soon as it landed short of Shakir and I saw the replay that showed Allen was flat footed and Shakir had enough space for even a slightly softer throw (a regular human throw). I bet Josh’s thoughts are that it was the right decision (Diggs sucks) and he didn’t choose the correct throw. 
 

A plant and fire was an easy looking, spectacular throw from JA17.

 

Everyone saying the play should’ve gone to Diggs is assuming the Bills had more scoring plays in their cache, when in fact they hadn’t any all night.
 

Eat up more clock… don’t give Mahomes time to counter.

 

Nah man. You score 6 when you can. The way these receivers have been failing you all game, you had your favorite wr in the endzone - go for that. 
 

If Mahomes gets the ball back and goes down to score a touchdown to win, so be it. McDermott’s vindication attempt would have been squashed and he’d be canned for the very understandable and justifiable reason of continuous blowing @$$ on defense on another win-all drive. 

 

Allen had Dawkins shoved into him and hit his left shoulder right as he was throwing.  Didn't really have anything to do with being flat footed.  If you are throwing and you get your other shoulder hit backwards forcefully, the ball is just going to end up short.  That's just physics.

[Thrivefourfive]

2 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

always score as efficiently as possible. especially when you are losing. people are nuts thinking we can just manipulate the clock and score whenever, however we want. 

 

TAKE THE 7 EVERY TIME it is handed to you

The biggest factor in the play is that it was an easy touchdown. Allen wasn’t hero-balling it in triple coverage. It was a touchdown with a decent throw. Never ever ever, anywhere, anytime, pass up that throw to that WR….again at anytime in the game. Unless you’re the one writing the script and you have a better outcome than the Chiefs beating the Bills again in the playoffs 

[chongli]

 

[TwistofFate]

46 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  The goal was very simple here.   It’s to score a TD with almost no time left especially when only a field goal is all the Bills need to extend the game so it wasn’t like the Bills needed a TD on that down.  I know he doesn’t have a coach that will hold him accountable like Dabol would but we are on year six here where he should already know the situation.  I love Josh we owe all these playoff years to him but I’m so dissapointed that he wouldn’t be able to dissect that situation for what it was.  I can’t put that one on Sean as much as I have wanted him gone for a few years😭😭

Dude we all ***** saw it but can I really sit back and blame Josh down for having literally the only bad path he had all night? 

 

I'm sorry but I can't put this loss on one bad pass I have to put it on the multiple digs drops from our number one guy or defense that couldn't step up and make a ***** play or special teams unit that I've been screaming about for weeks to miss two field goals at home.

 

This game is 100% not about Josh Allen it's about Sheffield Diggs and bass. I could even throw some blame on Brady for running the ball over and over and over in the third quarter when it was clear as day that the cheese were dedicated to stop and cook from tearing them up.

[DCOrange]

46 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  The goal was very simple here.   It’s to score a TD with almost no time left especially when only a field goal is all the Bills need to extend the game so it wasn’t like the Bills needed a TD on that down.  I know he doesn’t have a coach that will hold him accountable like Dabol would but we are on year six here where he should already know the situation.  I love Josh we owe all these playoff years to him but I’m so dissapointed that he wouldn’t be able to dissect that situation for what it was.  I can’t put that one on Sean as much as I have wanted him gone for a few years😭😭

This is why. There was no promise we would score, as evidenced by the fact that we didn't. Taking the lead with 2-5 minutes left (if we hadn't been so focused on milking the clock in the first place) is better than never taking the lead.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 minutes ago, Punch said:

No one's arguing Allen should've thrown it to Diggs in order to setup a FG, get over yourself. Everyone making that case wanted to leave no time on the clock after a TD.

just get a TD and stop being afraid of the other team is my point. If the opportunity presents itself for a wide open TD you take. 
 

Again, 3 point lead vs. 4 point lead is a  huge difference in strategy. 
 

[billieve420]

1 minute ago, chongli said:

 

Ball should have been out if Diggs was primary on that route.

[vanislebills44]

yah i was initially hot for not taking the underneath, still a bit mad as with the pressure coming a quick snap throw 2 diggs would have come off the hand alot faster, but shakir was there 4 the taking, u take that...hindsight is 20/20 on not gettin a full follow thru

[ChrisWatson#21]

41 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Shakir was leading open when he made the decision.   Anyone is taking the 6 in that moment.  He got hit on the throw.  
 

Who’s to say the throw to Diggs also wouldn’t have been affected?

They replayed the view from Josh's view and IMHO Josh made an anticipation throw to him as he wasn't open when he started his throwing motion.  I get take the six whenever you can but in this case you have to consider the opponent and we all knew as fans that whoever had the ball last in this game would win it.  They were only down three and that was already on the table.  Again I love Josh till the end but that play has left me messed up in my head.

[Thrivefourfive]

10 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Allen had Dawkins shoved into him and hit his left shoulder right as he was throwing.  Didn't really have anything to do with being flat footed.  If you are throwing and you get your other shoulder hit backwards forcefully, the ball is just going to end up short.  That's just physics.

Sometimes if you’re in the pocket you throw flat footed because of contact coming from the front. Allen threw flat footed because of what you described. It seem led he started his flat footed throw before he was hit, but he knew he’d get hit. 
 

I believe he couldn’t planted and driven it, with his arm and follow-through hitting into the pressure. I believe he could’ve made that throw. It doesn’t take much movement for Allen to plant. He basically just lifts his foot and puts in down in the same place. Sometimes he strides, ever so slightly…those are the rocket balls. 

 

I also believe he could’ve loft the ball a slight bit before or during the frontal contact. I think that type of ball wouldn’t resulted in six. 

[ChrisWatson#21]

40 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I’ll just copy/paste this from my thread…

 

Allen had two good options on that play;

 

1) Shakir open in the endzone.

2) Diggs open on the crosser.

 

He chose Shakir, who had made several great catches during the game, over Diggs who had 2 drops during the game.

 

If Chris Jones didn’t push Dawkins into Allen’s side as he threw it, that would have been Allen’s 4th TD of the game.

 

I'll have to look at the end zone replay again but my first impression of the end zone replay was that Shakir was cutting into the hash when Josh made the throw and still not wide open as he is releasing it.  Don't get me wrong though I am as grateful to Josh as one can be and wouldn't trade him for anyone but that is one situation where I'm beginning to doubt my opinion about him that he is the best QB in the game. 

[Dr.Sack]

Torrence helping Brown out on Karlifits. When Morse or Allen needed to slide protection left so McGovern could help Dawkins on Jones the one guy who can wreck games. Luckily for us Allen’s pass did sail into the air. Clearly Dawkins cants handle Jones 1 on 1. Got straight bull rushed back into Allen.  

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I'll have to look at the end zone replay again but my first impression of the end zone replay was that Shakir was cutting into the hash when Josh made the throw and still not wide open as he is releasing it.  

 

It’s a TD if Allen isn’t hit IMO. 

 

[ChrisWatson#21]

25 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

This is why. There was no promise we would score, as evidenced by the fact that we didn't. Taking the lead with 2-5 minutes left (if we hadn't been so focused on milking the clock in the first place) is better than never taking the lead.

I get that my guy no doubt 100% but not all situations are equal.  We were playing against a team that we kicked off to with 13 seconds left and defeated us.  IDK man I'm still so happy we have JA17 he is the reason we are always in it all I am trying to say is that for my money he was the best QB in the business and now I'm having doubts when I saw that play.

[Buffalo03]

59 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Going up 4 vs. 3 is an entirely different  scenario. If 
 

I have no problem with taking a shot to a WIDE OPEN receiver in the end zone in this situation. Especially on 2nd down. 
 

people arguing the check down to Diggs are really arguing they want to milk the clock and settle for overtime. That’s the mentality. Milk the clock, play conservative and kick a 28 yard Fg after going ultra conservative in the red zone after picking up the first down to Diggs. 
 

so play for overtime. A loser mentality. 

No one said to play for overtime but take the clock down and score a TD so that Mahomes had to drive the whole length of the field with very little time left

[JoshAllin]

The play call was 80% TD or 20% 1st down, as the play call looked to have 4 recievers heading to the EZ with only  Diggs crossing

Edited January 22 by motorj

[Einstein]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

No one said to play for overtime but take the clock down and score a TD so that Mahomes had to drive the whole length of the field with very little time left

 

A touchdown later isn’t guaranteed just because you get the first down by throwing to Diggs.

 

The very next snap could be fumbled. Or the ball tipped and intercepted. Or a holding penalty that crushes the drive.

 

You always take the points when you can get them. Throwing endzone was the right call.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

No one said to play for overtime but take the clock down and score a TD so that Mahomes had to drive the whole length of the field with very little time left

Get the TD when you can period. Go up 4. Stop being afraid. If you are only up three then you can be afraid. 

[Buffalo03]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

A touchdown later isn’t guaranteed just because you get the first down by throwing to Diggs.

 

The very next snap could be fumbled. Or the ball tipped and intercepted. Or a holding penalty that crushes the drive.

 

You always take the points when you can get them. Throwing endzone was the right call.

Ok. But you still take the clock down as far as possible and TRY for a TD. Then if it doesn't work. Kick the field goal. This isn't hard. You can't let Mahomes have that kind of time

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Get the TD when you can period. Go up 4. Stop being afraid. If you are only up three then you can be afraid. 

Stop being afraid? What did the defense the whole game that said we would stop Mahomes with 1:55 left?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

 

Stop being afraid? What did the defense the whole game that said we would stop Mahomes with 1:55 left?

okay, so what time are you comfortable with? 1:40? 1:30? 1:20? 1:10?  What’s the magic number? Eventually you have to score. In a perfect world you score with 1 second.
 

Also in a perfect world Bills are up 4 TD’s and it’s all irrelevant. You can’t play the game based on perfect scenarios occurring. 

[Avisan]

Yeah, I don't get the fear narrative.  It isn't about fear; it's about delivering the mortal wound.

 

Getting the TD with 1:55 left, 2 TOs for KC, and 4-down territory all drive isn't mortal.  Not when your defense is barely able to be fielded.

 

The mortal wound is grinding down the clock and getting the TD at the end.  Brady and Manning take the underneath there.  They take the high percentage passes that they know WILL lead to the endzone at the end, or at worst set up a chip shot field goal with minimal time left.

 

Brady and Manning felt inevitable.  They would grind it down the field and break you, and all you could do was watch.  We spent two decades under Brady's heel, we all should KNOW what that looks like.  Allen went for the lower-probability, survivable strike instead and didn't connect.

 

Still beyond thankful we have him.  It's okay to acknowledge what he lacks compared to the true greats, though.

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

okay, so what time are you comfortable with? 1:40? 1:30? 1:20? 1:10?  What’s the magic number? Eventually you have to score. In a perfect world you score with 1 second.
 

Also in a perfect world Bills are up 4 TD’s and it’s all irrelevant. You can’t play the game based on perfect scenarios occurring. 

< 1 minute to go and both timeouts spent.  We were on track to do it.

[Buffalo03]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins&#x27; Rib said:

okay, so what time are you comfortable with? 1:40? 1:30? 1:20? 1:10?  What’s the magic number? Eventually you have to score. In a perfect world you score with 1 second.
 

Also in a perfect world Bills are up 4 TD’s and it’s all irrelevant. You can’t play the game based on perfect scenarios occurring. 

I understand eventually we have to score. That's not lost on me. But I would rather score with as close to one minute left as possible and try to have Mahomes drive down with only one minute of time instead of nearly 2 whole minutes 

[Success]

I think anyone who second guesses that just second guesses a lot of stuff.

 

Life isn't in slow mo - JA made a decision to try to win the game there, and the play was open.

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Yeah, I don't get the fear narrative.  It isn't about fear; it's about delivering the mortal wound.

 

Getting the TD with 1:55 left, 2 TOs for KC, and 4-down territory all drive isn't mortal.  Not when your defense is barely able to be fielded.

 

The mortal wound is grinding down the clock and getting the TD at the end.  Brady and Manning take the underneath there.  They take the high percentage passes that they know WILL lead to the endzone at the end, or at worst set up a chip shot field goal with minimal time left.

 

Brady and Manning felt inevitable.  They would grind it down the field and break you, and all you could do was watch.  We spent two decades under Brady's heel, we all should KNOW what that looks like.  Allen went for the lower-probability, survivable strike instead and didn't connect.

 

Still beyond thankful we have him.  It's okay to acknowledge what he lacks compared to the true greats, though.

< 1 minute to go and both timeouts spent.  We were on track to do it.

I get everyone wants to bleed the clock down as much as possible but number priority had to be to score a TD. 
 

again, scenario is totally different if a TD only puts you up 3. In that scenario then bleeding the clock is more important than scoring. 

[Avisan]

Just now, Sammy Watkins&#x27; Rib said:

I get everyone wants to bleed the clock down as much as possible but number priority had to be to score a TD. 
 

again, scenario is totally different if a TD only puts you up 3. In that scenario then bleeding the clock is more important than scoring. 

Number one priority is to tie or go ahead with no time left on the clock for the Chiefs.  A decade ago this was commonly and thoroughly understood, and I'm frankly confused at why so many posters here aren't getting it.

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 hour ago, Punch said:

Milk the clock and score a TD is the only way I'm interpreting those that wanted the throw to Diggs.

Yep, defense wasn’t stopping anyone tonight 

[Meatloaf63]

1 hour ago, Bferra13 said:

Not enough Kincaid in this game. Not even close. 

Terrible usage. While Sherfield and Diggs handed the game to the Chiefs he ignored for large parts of the game.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, Avisan said:

Number one priority is to tie or go ahead with no time left on the clock for the Chiefs.  A decade ago this was commonly and thoroughly understood, and I'm frankly confused at why so many posters here aren't getting it.

Because if you can’t get the TD the point is moot anyway. Just get the TD. 
 

If we are looking for legitimate criticism I would maybe look at the decision to kick a Fg for the tie with 1:50 left. Not that I even think it was a bad decision to go for the Fg there though.  4th and 9 is a tough spot to be in as a coach. 
 

if I am to criticize Allen it’s not for the 2nd 9 throw but for the 3rd and 9 throw. On 3rd down he needs to make sure he gained any kind of positive yards. Even a 3 yard pick up probably has us going for it on 4th 6 which would be a wet dream for all the folks that want to milk the clock as much as possible. 

 

 

[BuffaloRebound]

10 minutes ago, Success said:

I think anyone who second guesses that just second guesses a lot of stuff.

 

Life isn't in slow mo - JA made a decision to try to win the game there, and the play was open.

 

Agreed.  In an ideal world he checks down twice, gets the 1st down, the chiefs burn their 2 timeouts and we score a td or kick a field goal with no time left.  Hard to fault him for taking that shot to shakir.  It was open and you can’t get cute down 3 with a shaky kicker.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

9 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Yep, defense wasn’t stopping anyone tonight 

felt that way but the defense did force the chiefs to punt on their possession prior to the missed Fg. Chiefs had a 5 play 8 yard drive. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins&#x27; Rib said:

Because if you can’t get the TD the point is moot anyway. Just get the TD. 
 

If we are looking for legitimate criticism I would maybe look at the decision to kick a Fg for the tie with 1:50 left. Not that I even think it was a bad decision to go for the Fg there though.  4th and 9 is a tough spot to be in as a coach. 
 

if I am to criticize Allen it’s not for the 2nd 9 throw but for the 3rd and 9 throw. On 3rd down he needs to make sure he gained any kind of positive yards. Even a 3 yard pick up probably has us going for it on 4th 6 which would be a wet dream for all the folks that want to milk the clock as much as possible. 

 

 

No way McD goes for it on 4th and 6 in that situation.  Maybe 4th and 2 or less, but not 4th and 6

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

No way McD goes for it on 4th and 6 in that situation.  Maybe 4th and 2 or less, but not 4th and 6

I’d be super pissed if we had 4th and 6 or less and didn’t go for it.  Kicking the Fg there gives you a very low chance of winning. It should be a legitimate consideration even on 4th and 9. 

[weebdestroyer12]

1 hour ago, Punch said:

Milk the clock and score a TD is the only way I'm interpreting those that wanted the throw to Diggs.

Exactly, people that wanted diggs first down wasn't trying to play for OT either. We wanted milk the clock cause WE KNEW the bills were scoring a TD there. Could Shakir catch would have been better? Easy to say, what if he dropped it? What if he never gotten possession and when he fell the ball was still moving? Everything is alot of should've, would've and could've. 

[chongli]

 

 

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

Diggs was going full speed opposite direction josh is looking. It's definitely not a gimme and josh thought he had the TD. He played incredible,  let's cut him some slack .main blame should go to receivers,  kicker,  defensive line, and coaching.  

[billieve420]

13 minutes ago, chongli said:

If Diggs wasn't the primary then he was the decoy on that route and ball was never meant to go to him. I then have an issue with the play call at that moment in the game.

 

[Dafan]

2 hours ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  The goal was very simple here.   It’s to score a TD with almost no time left especially when only a field goal is all the Bills need to extend the game so it wasn’t like the Bills needed a TD on that down.  I know he doesn’t have a coach that will hold him accountable like Dabol would but we are on year six here where he should already know the situation.  I love Josh we owe all these playoff years to him but I’m so dissapointed that he wouldn’t be able to dissect that situation for what it was.  I can’t put that one on Sean as much as I have wanted him gone for a few years😭😭

He made the right read IMO.  Give it 0.01 of a second more of protection and he hits him wide-open in the end zone.  And as much as ppl say he had the easy first down.  That same defender that bumped him was directly in between him and the Diggs open for the first.  If allen attempts that pass and it's batted down, you'd all be saying he had a guy wide-open in the end zone.  

Edited January 22 by Dafan

[billieve420]

30 minutes ago, Dafan said:

He made the right read IMO.  Give it 0.01 of a second more of protection and he hits him wide-open in the end zone.  And as much as ppl say he had the easy first down.  That same defender that bumped him was directly in between him and the Diggs open for the first.  If allen attempts that pass and it's batted down, you'd all be saying he had a guy wide-open in the end zone.  

Ball should have been out before he even got hit. Diggs was immediately open once the ball was snapped. On 2nd and 9 I am giving it to my playmakers to go and try to make something happen. Knowing I have 2 more downs to try and get the first if it is close as we were trying to play the clock and score TD at the same time.
 

I rather lose with the ball in my best player’s hands versus settling for a FG there. 4th and 9 we didn’t have much of a choice. If we could have gotten it to closer to a first. I am letting Josh try to convert knowing KC would probably drive for the winning FG regardless if we tied it up. So for me on 2nd and 3rd downs. I am looking to scheme someone open underneath to gain a few yards versus going for the kill shot at that moment in the game. 

 

[Alphadawg7]

There is not 2 sides to this argument.  You take the TD when the TD is there and will put you up 4 with the opponent needing a TD with less than 2 min remaining in the game.  
 

You don’t dink and dunk and hope you get another shot at a TD just to chew clock and maybe end up in OT or worse, miss the FG or turn the ball over.

 

Every Coach in the NFL takes the TD there over uncertainty 10 times out of 10.  Shakir was the right pass, Allen was just unfortunately affected on the throw at the last second.

[Xwnyer]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

At least not from that formation it wasn't.

Brady feel,it I the trap if the success running in first half,  second half the offense was shut down and he failed to incorporate play action on first down or second and short.  The bomb to Diggs was first down play action but didn’t connect.