Everyone take a minute and appreciate what we have in this team

[Ethan in Cleveland]

43 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Ethan -

 

That's a great list.  Top three absolutely are all-time greats.  And Allen isn't half way through his career yet. 

Thanks putting Diggs ahead of Reed is controversial but Diggs is a better WR and has been incredibly productive in his time in Buffalo.

[Albany,n.y.]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Not to toot my own horn, but I predicted his HOF career early in his rookie year. I was dead serious and took some ribbing as a result. 
 

And yeah, these are the are the good old days so soak it in indeed.

I wasn't far behind.  On opening day 2019 I was on a bus trip to opening day at Met-Life and a Jets fan in the seat in front of me started making Josh Allen accuracy jokes.  I told him that day that Josh would be in the Hall of Fame.  

 

 

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Thanks putting Diggs ahead of Reed is controversial but Diggs is a better WR and has been incredibly productive in his time in Buffalo.

 

Red did what he did on longevity.  In 16 seasons he posted only four 1,000 yards seasons.  

 

Only for times in the top 10 for TDs and only the times on the top 10 for yards, peaking at 5th in both.  

 

... to your point that is.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

51 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

That makes sense Gunner!  But I would also add that the players themselves get sad when the season ends prematurely, aka no Championship.  Their expectations are for nothing less than a Championship, so why shouldn't ours be.  

 

We do need to appreciate what we have, but consider, we have Allen.  I told the guy sitting next to me at the Bills Backer bar yesterday that I sometimes still can't believe that we have Allen, the most exciting, if perhaps not the fan/media-favorite "best" (Mahomes), QB in the league, quite possibly in league history.  If we could build a QB in a lab made for Buffalo, Allen is that QB.  

 

Having said that, the bar is a little bit higher, particularly for those of us fans that actively went through the four-year string of Super Bowl losses.  When you have Allen, the QB leading the charge in the topic of this thread, it's almost tragic to not win a Lombardi, or even multiple ones.  It's certainly not beyond the realm of reason to question why that did not occur and then to hope for the requisite changes.  

 

Not too many people after losses to New England, the Jets, Jax, Denver, and near losses to the Giants and Bucs, were too happy afterwards.  It was pretty dismal here in fact.  LOL  

 

What bothers many is how we did what we did yesterday, but then lost all of those aforementioned games.  Frankly, we should be 11-3 or 12-2 right now, shaking hands with the #1 Seed and homefield advantage.  Instead, we're hoping to squeeze in as a Wild-Card with help from other teams, again, as we did in 2017, McD's inaugural season with Taylor.  

Having said that, you know that I posted prior to and earlier in the season, that I'd rather get that 7th Seed, sneak in unassumingly, and win the whole damn enchilada.  But consider, right now the pattern from the season is that we might be able to beat Baltimore, KC, or Miami in the playoffs, but that getting past Jax, Cleveland, Cincy, Indy or Houston might be a problem.  ... purely for the sake of discussion that is.  

 

Yesterday was phenominal, and what has been expected all season by many of us, but where has that team been?  Was yesterday just another emotional blip in home-team energy against a team that spent itself last week in a more important game, or are we on a roll and peaking?  That's anyone's guess.  Let's hope it's the latter.  

 

Anyway, the point to your post was that winning a Championship has to figure in there somewhere given that we do in fact have Allen.  If our QB were Taylor, Fitzpatrick, or any of the others we've had since Kelly, then yeah, just getting to the playoffs would be satisfactory and watching the games without those expectations would be reasonable.  But when you do in fact have Allen, and when it's considered that other coaches would have done more with Allen, then it hurts and probably should, and the bar is much much higher.  

 

Not trying to stir things up, but also not sure it's fair to yank a Championship/Lombardi out of the mix for fan contentment, when even the players and coaches aren't content with that.  Fully agree with you on those that take their lamentations into the week and let it affect their personal lives however.  

 

It would be a whole lot easier to handle had we actually won one or two of those Super Bowls, as we should have then as well.  But as Bills fans, or any fans, by default we set ourselves up for sadness by being fans, when our teams do not play to the level of their talent.  That's simply natural.  

 

 

 

This thread is not about expectations. There are tons of other threads where that gets discussed. This was a thread about appreciating what we have. It wasn't to suggest everything was perfect. I can't understand why people can't see that distinction. 
 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This thread is not about expectations. There are tons of other threads where that gets discussed. This was a thread about appreciating what we have. It wasn't to suggest everything was perfect. I can't understand why people can't see that distinction. 
 

 

Well, and again, it's easier to appreciate what you have when you make the most of it, not underachieve with it.  Then it becomes more difficult to accept.  

 

Pretty simple.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, and again, it's easier to appreciate what you have when you make the most of it, not underachieve with it.  Then it becomes more difficult to accept.  

 

Pretty simple.  

 

 

 

 

Nah the two concepts are different. 

[PBF81]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Nah the two concepts are different. 

 

I'm pretty sure that if we miss the playoffs both the players/team and fans will disagree. 

 

Otherwise, totally unrelated?  
 

Well, OK.  

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by PBF81

[transient]

10 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

He will be a folk hero for years to come. He will have his own street named after him. 

Why stop there?!?! Name a whole section of the city after him… a section with festivals dedicated to art, and places to get Greek food, and colorful late night hangouts where you can pee in a trough at 4 am in the dead of winter and watch the steam billow up in the freezing air… oh, wait. 😂

 

As a disclaimer, it’s been since 2005 since I’ve lived in the city so details of this part of ‘town may have changed. 

[PromoTheRobot]

So not being perfect ruins it for some fans.

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Nah the two concepts are different. 

 

BTW, post a poll, let's find out.  

 

Q:  Are you less satisfied when we underachieve with Allen as our QB, or equally satisfied whether we make the playoffs or not, or lose in the early rounds to inferior teams or not?  

 

A:  Yes or No 

 

 

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So not being perfect ruins it for some fans.

 

No team is perfect.  

 

Perfect and underachieving and losing to less competitive teams are two different things if we're going to be honest.  

 

Absolutely no one expects perfection, not even the most critical of fans.  ... except in the GDT here.  LOL  

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by PBF81

[K-9]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

BTW, post a poll, let's find out.  

 

Q:  Are you less satisfied when we underachieve with Allen as our QB, or equally satisfied whether we make the playoffs or not, or lose in the early rounds to inferior teams or not?  

 

A:  Yes or No 

 

 

Are you at all familiar with the concept of “the journey?”

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

No team is perfect.  

 

Perfect and underachieving and losing to less competitive teams are two different things if we're going to be honest.  

 

Absolutely no one expects perfection, not even the most critical of fans.  ... except in the GDT here.  LOL  

 

 

 

But it's enough for some people to grouse about the Bills after destroying the Cowboys.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

That makes sense Gunner!  But I would also add that the players themselves get sad when the season ends prematurely, aka no Championship.  Their expectations are for nothing less than a Championship, so why shouldn't ours be.  

 

We do need to appreciate what we have, but consider, we have Allen.  I told the guy sitting next to me at the Bills Backer bar yesterday that I sometimes still can't believe that we have Allen, the most exciting, if perhaps not the fan/media-favorite "best" (Mahomes), QB in the league, quite possibly in league history.  If we could build a QB in a lab made for Buffalo, Allen is that QB.  

 

Having said that, the bar is a little bit higher, particularly for those of us fans that actively went through the four-year string of Super Bowl losses.  When you have Allen, the QB leading the charge in the topic of this thread, it's almost tragic to not win a Lombardi, or even multiple ones.  It's certainly not beyond the realm of reason to question why that did not occur and then to hope for the requisite changes.  

 

Not too many people after losses to New England, the Jets, Jax, Denver, and near losses to the Giants and Bucs, were too happy afterwards.  It was pretty dismal here in fact.  LOL  

 

What bothers many is how we did what we did yesterday, but then lost all of those aforementioned games.  Frankly, we should be 11-3 or 12-2 right now, shaking hands with the #1 Seed and homefield advantage.  Instead, we're hoping to squeeze in as a Wild-Card with help from other teams, again, as we did in 2017, McD's inaugural season with Taylor.  

Having said that, you know that I posted prior to and earlier in the season, that I'd rather get that 7th Seed, sneak in unassumingly, and win the whole damn enchilada.  But consider, right now the pattern from the season is that we might be able to beat Baltimore, KC, or Miami in the playoffs, but that getting past Jax, Cleveland, Cincy, Indy or Houston might be a problem.  ... purely for the sake of discussion that is.  

 

Yesterday was phenominal, and what has been expected all season by many of us, but where has that team been?  Was yesterday just another emotional blip in home-team energy against a team that spent itself last week in a more important game, or are we on a roll and peaking?  That's anyone's guess.  Let's hope it's the latter.  

 

Anyway, the point to your post was that winning a Championship has to figure in there somewhere given that we do in fact have Allen.  If our QB were Taylor, Fitzpatrick, or any of the others we've had since Kelly, then yeah, just getting to the playoffs would be satisfactory and watching the games without those expectations would be reasonable.  But when you do in fact have Allen, and when it's considered that other coaches would have done more with Allen, then it hurts and probably should, and the bar is much much higher.  

 

Not trying to stir things up, but also not sure it's fair to yank a Championship/Lombardi out of the mix for fan contentment, when even the players and coaches aren't content with that.  Fully agree with you on those that take their lamentations into the week and let it affect their personal lives however.  

 

It would be a whole lot easier to handle had we actually won one or two of those Super Bowls, as we should have then as well.  But as Bills fans, or any fans, by default we set ourselves up for sadness by being fans, when our teams do not play to the level of their talent.  That's simply natural.  

 

 

Great post but according to Gunner this isn't the thread for this. Gotta stay on topic with no variations. 

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'm pretty sure that if we miss the playoffs both the players/team and fans will disagree. 

 

Otherwise, totally unrelated?  
 

Well, OK.  

 

 

 

They will disagree that we shouldn't appreciate what we have? Will they? I don't think they will. Not anyone sensible. They might be disappointed and think we underachieved this season but one concept is big picture the other is immediate. They are not the same. 

Just now, newcam2012 said:

Great post but according to Gunner this isn't the thread for this. Gotta stay on topic with no variations. 

 

Oh don't pretend there aren't dozens of threads on this board where we can and do discuss and critique the team's performance game to game and season to season. This thread isn't about that. It's about zooming out and looking big picture. 

[Big Turk]

This team is mentally tough...we saw it in 2021.  We saw it last year. We are seeing it again this year.  When things get tough and this team is backed into a corner, they are like a wolverine that nobody wants to mess with. Usually it leads to them playing their best football.  

 

With so many teams that fade when the going gets tough, it's great to see ours plays it's best.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Big Turk

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

BTW, post a poll, let's find out.  

 

Q:  Are you less satisfied when we underachieve with Allen as our QB, or equally satisfied whether we make the playoffs or not, or lose in the early rounds to inferior teams or not?  

 

A:  Yes or No 

 

 

IT IS NOT ABOUT SATISFACTION WITH RESULTS!!!!! FFS this should not be that ***** difficult. It is about appreciation. The concept is different. 

[newcam2012]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

But it's enough for some people to grouse about the Bills after destroying the Cowboys.

No one is displeased with the Bills thrashing of the Cowboys. Some fans are displeased with the position the team is in this year. By all standards it's under achieving. Don't confuse the points. 

[PBF81]

14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

But it's enough for some people to grouse about the Bills after destroying the Cowboys.

 

IDK, you'll have to talk to them about that.  No "grousing" here.  LOL  

 

I was and continue to be as happy as a clam in mud.  

 

Just a little perplexed as to why more games haven't been closer to that than closer to many of our others.  

 

 

[x-BillzeBubba]

and btw kudos toSpencer Brown who has made a ton of improvement...I had kind of given up on him, figered his ceiling was just too low, but glad I was wrong

[PBF81]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

They will disagree that we shouldn't appreciate what we have? Will they? I don't think they will. Not anyone sensible. They might be disappointed and think we underachieved this season but one concept is big picture the other is immediate. They are not the same. 

 

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but as for myself, I personally will be tremendously disappointed if we miss out on the playoffs, or if we lose to pretty much any AFC team therein if we make it.  

 

Our roster, even with all of the injuries, that other teams have as well, is better than any in the AFC on the offensive side of the ball.  In fact, there's not one team in the AFC that's close.  

 

But if you're content with that, great.   I also don't see the players and team being satisfied with it either.  Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe they'll be satisfied with an early exit too.  

 

Not much to argue about other than the nits that you're bringing up.  

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by PBF81

[teef]

this is about right...

[Augie]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

But this is not the thread for that. That is the point. Make your other points elsewhere. They are not for here. This thread is about appreciating what we have. 

 

 

He’s pretty consistent, I’m not sure he has anything other than what he’s posted here. 

 

I appreciate what appears to be a new physical attitude. Regardless of weather, who ever expected 45 runs vs 15 passes? We CAN run the ball, and we CAN attack defenses in ways that enhance our advantages. This looks like the team I was hoping for this season. Let’s win one game at a time playing this kind of football and hope for the best. Even if we miss the playoffs, that will give me a positive feeling going into the offseason. 

[PromoTheRobot]

10 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

No one is displeased with the Bills thrashing of the Cowboys. Some fans are displeased with the position the team is in this year. By all standards it's under achieving. Don't confuse the points. 

 

Speaking of confusing points...do you not get the gist of my post, about appreciating what's great about this team and setting aside the negs, such as they are?

[Airseven]

Touting Allen for HOF is quite a leap at this point.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Speaking of confusing points...do you not get the gist of my post, about appreciating what's great about this team and setting aside the negs, such as they are?

I get that. There are lots to like about the team. In many ways we Bills fans have a lot to be thankful for.

 

However, I just can't put aside the negatives either. I like to see the whole picture not a biased partial picture.

 

To each it's own. 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They will disagree that we shouldn't appreciate what we have? Will they? I don't think they will. Not anyone sensible. They might be disappointed and think we underachieved this season but one concept is big picture the other is immediate. They are not the same. 

 

Oh don't pretend there aren't dozens of threads on this board where we can and do discuss and critique the team's performance game to game and season to season. This thread isn't about that. It's about zooming out and looking big picture. 

So the "big picture" is only subject to positivity on this thread. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but as for myself, I personally will be tremendously disappointed if we miss out on the playoffs, or if we lose to pretty much any AFC team therein if we make it.  

 

Our roster, even with all of the injuries, that other teams have as well, is better than any in the AFC on the offensive side of the ball.  In fact, there's not one team in the AFC that's close.  

 

But if you're content with that, great.   I also don't see the players and team being satisfied with it either.  Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe they'll be satisfied with an early exit too.  

 

Not much to argue about other than the nits that you're bringing up.  

 

 

 

I will not be content. This thread is not about contentment. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

[Georgia Bill]

I'm one of the many that truly appreciates the team that we have.  For how competitive they are, and for the greatness that is yet to come.  Go Bills!

[transient]

13 hours ago, Punch said:

If Josh Allen delivers a Super Bowl victory (especially if in characteristically Josh Allen fashion) we'll erect our own Mount Rushmore along Abbott Road consisting of 4 Josh Allens. 

Can we add a fifth that’s jumping over the other four? 🙏 

[PromoTheRobot]

57 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

However, I just can't put aside the negatives either. I like to see the whole picture not a biased partial picture.

 

To each it's own. 

 

 

That's one way to describe being a Debbie Downer.

 

And you still miss my point. Or maybe it's something you can't do. No team is ever perfect. And if all you do is focus on flaws, you miss the "big picture" you're so fond of, that this Bills team is elite, and has elite players, it has a LEGEND for a QB.  And 10, 20 years from now, if we're still around, we will reminisce fondly about the days we are living in RIGHT NOW!! 

 

We're you a fan during the drought? Do you remember what that was like? If you like finding flaws that would have been your heyday.

Edited December 18, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[TheyCallMeAndy]

13 hours ago, Punch said:

I'm 100% certain the Bills can beat 30 NFL teams--- the only team that I'm not certain of is the 49ers, which happens to be Josh Allen's favorite team when growing up in Northern California.

 

There's simply no way Josh Allen loses to his boyhood team.

 

Go Bills.

My dumb ass is sitting here trying to figure out who the 2nd team is that Allen may not be able to beat 🤦🏻

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

If you had a way of determining MVP by an objective analysis of a team’s success with or without a player I think Josh would be MVP by a mile for 3 years running.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Airseven said:

Touting Allen for HOF is quite a leap at this point.

 

Yes. It is quite a leap.

 

 

 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I will not be content. This thread is not about contentment. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

 

Well, Jets the original post of yours that I originally replied to.

 

Quote

if you can only enjoy and appreciate it when they win a Lombardi you are setting yourself up for a lot of sadness. Bills fans should appreciate having the team they have, even through frustrating losses and underachieving seasons. 

 

Implied there is that we should all be, since you appear to be speaking for everyone, not sad (or other unhappy emotions) when we lose like were did this season to the Jets, New England, Denver, Cincy, the Jags, or even the Eagles.

 

I'll keep my ears perked for the next time after an egregious loss, that one of the players, who knows, maybe Allen to confirm your point, says, 'I don't mind that we lost, I'm just happy to be playing here in Buffalo.' 

 

In short, your insisting that win or lose, playoffs or not, "appreciating that we have a good team" should trump all other feelings/emotions.  

 

Any notions or suggestions that there isn't a Bills fan out there that doesn't appreciate that we have Allen, with perhaps a few insignificant exceptions, is delusional.  

 

Implying that there are any Bills fans out there that don't appreciate Allen, .... really?  

 

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's one way to describe being a Debbie Downer.

 

And you still miss my point. Or maybe it's something you can't do. No team is ever perfect. And if all you do is focus on flaws, you miss the "big picture" you're so fond of, that this Bills team is elite, and has elite players, it has a LEGEND for a QB.  And 10, 20 years from now, if we're still around, we will reminisce fondly about the days we are living in RIGHT NOW!! 

 

We're you a fan during the drought? Do you remember what that was like? If you like finding flaws that would have been your heyday.

I'm not missing your point. It depends on how you see and evaluate a football team and it's players. 

 

Let me use the Bills team and players of the 90's because I think this best illustrates both our perspectives. 

 

We watched hall of famers play weekly and dominant the AFC. The fond memories of watching those teams and players lives on. What a feat to go to four straight super bowls. No need to name names here. I get it!!!

 

However, let's not pretend that there wasn't or isn't something missing. Wide right will never be forgotten nor should it. The super bowl blowouts did happen. The scars if you will have faded but they still exist. Those teams just couldn't bring home the Lombardi. 

 

I like to see the whole picture. I'm not here to sling mud on your perspective. It's just different than mine. 

 

Most Bills fans are hungry and thirsty for that Lombardi Trophy. That hunger and thirst partly exist because of past failures. The one before I die saying is meaningful.

 

Many on this current team may end of being very special and perhaps hall of famers. Yes their special play with be etched into our memory banks for years to come. We can pass on our memories to others.

 

However, without a Lombardi Trophy their will always be a void. A void that you seemingly casually dismiss...

Edited December 18, 2023 by newcam2012

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, Jets the original post of yours that I originally replied to.

 

 

Implied there is that we should all be, since you appear to be speaking for everyone, not sad (or other unhappy emotions) when we lose like were did this season to the Jets, New England, Denver, Cincy, the Jags, or even the Eagles.

 

I'll keep my ears perked for the next time after an egregious loss, that one of the players, who knows, maybe Allen to confirm your point, says, 'I don't mind that we lost, I'm just happy to be playing here in Buffalo.' 

 

In short, your insisting that win or lose, playoffs or not, "appreciating that we have a good team" should trump all other feelings/emotions.  

 

Any notions or suggestions that there isn't a Bills fan out there that doesn't appreciate that we have Allen, with perhaps a few insignificant exceptions, is delusional.  

 

Implying that there are any Bills fans out there that don't appreciate Allen, .... really?  

 

 

 

I am NOT insisting that. You are willfully misunderstanding the point. I am done here.

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 I am done here.

 

Thank you.

 

🙂

 

 

[Buffalo03]

15 hours ago, Punch said:

If Josh Allen delivers a Super Bowl victory (especially if in characteristically Josh Allen fashion) we'll erect our own Mount Rushmore along Abbott Road consisting of 4 Josh Allens. 

That's not all that would be erected

[Augie]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I get that. There are lots to like about the team. In many ways we Bills fans have a lot to be thankful for.

 

However, I just can't put aside the negatives either. I like to see the whole picture not a biased partial picture.

 

To each it's own. 

So the "big picture" is only subject to positivity on this thread. 

 

This is great for you to interject this into a thread about positivity. There are plenty of negative threads, but I don’t recall you there jumping in with the bright side on those.  😂 

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is great for you to interject this into a thread about positivity. There are plenty of negative threads, but I don’t recall you there jumping in with the bright side on those.  😂 

You are more than capable of jumping into any thread and giving your positive input. That's the beauty of this forum. 

[teef]

12 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is great for you to interject this into a thread about positivity. There are plenty of negative threads, but I don’t recall you there jumping in with the bright side on those.  😂 

some people just aren't happy until they do their thing.