Are you ready to marry Brady? (Joe)

[billsfan714]

Maybe he can consult with Dorsey on how to get Diggs the ball.

[LarryMadman]

2 hours ago, Chugga said:

 

 

Players are not executing.  But also haven’t been in love with some of his play designs depending on down and distances 

Because he is still using Dorseys playbook, he had no choice being a mid season hire. I believe he is 100% hamstrung buy Dorseys bad play designs. 

[Kincaid Kool-Aid]

6 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Because he is still using Dorseys playbook, he had no choice being a mid season hire. I believe he is 100% hamstrung buy Dorseys bad play designs. 

Fair point, but if that’s the case his actual offense is an unknown and it’s a big gamble to roll with him into next year.

[Billznut]

I think McD will give Brady another chance next season when he has a full off season, OTA’s and training camp to implement “his” offense. I think Brady gets a 2-3 year deal and they will give him a chance next year to show he can do this when he has his own playbook and offense to run. Will it work? Who knows. That’s just the route I expect the Bills to take. 

[wjag]

The quick behind the LOS pass to anyone needs to be removed from the playbook.  When was the last time Buffalo ran a Jets sweep? Buffalo needs to draft someone with some real speed. 

[Billznut]

51 minutes ago, wjag said:

The quick behind the LOS pass to anyone needs to be removed from the playbook.  When was the last time Buffalo ran a Jets sweep? Buffalo needs to draft someone with some real speed. 

They supposedly brought in Harty and Sherfield for their speed. And that has done us absolutely nothing this year.  Speed is certainly something Buffalo could use on offense. 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

55 minutes ago, wjag said:

The quick behind the LOS pass to anyone needs to be removed from the playbook.  When was the last time Buffalo ran a Jets sweep? Buffalo needs to draft someone with some real speed. 

Bills need to stop promoting in house and go after a real OC. Maybe a redesign of the playbook. 
 

They have no imagination in their play calling. It’s like constantly watching a pre season offense. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by BIGFOOTspaceman

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, wjag said:

The quick behind the LOS pass to anyone needs to be removed from the playbook.  When was the last time Buffalo ran a Jets sweep? Buffalo needs to draft someone with some real speed. 

 

So the problem is that that's our only consistent positive yardage passing play. Our WRs are not consistently separating downfield. So I think Brady is just trying to engineer some kind of rhythm in the passing offense. Not an easy needle to thread when Diggs is playing like nothing more than a decent #2 and everyone behind him is a JAG, not to mention our IOL has been pretty bad for a few weeks now.

[TH3]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So the problem is that that's our only consistent positive yardage passing play. Our WRs are not consistently separating downfield. So I think Brady is just trying to engineer some kind of rhythm in the passing offense. Not an easy needle to thread when Diggs is playing like nothing more than a decent #2 and everyone behind him is a JAG, not to mention our IOL has been pretty bad for a few weeks now.

Or….or possibly going with one rookie OC from inside the organization after another  …instead of a more established candidate ain’t the answer…..I mean rookie Joe Brady vs Bellicheck or Ravens D? Did anyone even know Brady existed before Dorsey was cut?

Edited January 1 by TH3

[HappyDays]

Just now, TH3 said:

Or….or possibly going with one rookie OC from inside the organization after another  …instead of a more established candidate ain’t the answer…..I mean rookie Joe Brady vs Bellicheck or Ravens D? 

 

If we want a substantial improvement in offensive coaching, it will have to come at the top. That's the reality. So if McDermott is here for the long haul we should probably start seriously investing in the offensive weapons to compensate for the inevitable less than elite offensive coaching.

[TH3]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

If we want a substantial improvement in offensive coaching, it will have to come at the top. That's the reality. So if McDermott is here for the long haul we should probably start seriously investing in the offensive weapons to compensate for the inevitable less than elite offensive coaching.

You can buy the best ingredients….but if the chef sucks…..My fear is the Bills/McD too insular to look outside

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, TH3 said:

You can buy the best ingredients….but if the chef sucks…..My fear is the Bills/McD too insular to look outside

 

Quality of passing weapons is by far the 2nd biggest indicator of offensive success (obviously QB #1) in the modern NFL. Like did Andy Reid forget how to coach offense this year? This year especially the best offenses have multiple very good or better pass catchers. Our offense doesn't even have one very good pass catcher right now. It really is that simple.

[TH3]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Quality of passing weapons is by far the 2nd biggest indicator of offensive success (obviously QB #1) in the modern NFL. Like did Andy Reid forget how to coach offense this year? This year especially the best offenses have multiple very good or better pass catchers. Our offense doesn't even have one very good pass catcher right now. It really is that simple.

Andy Reid has proven to be one of the best offensive minds in the NFL. Brady has proven nothing. Let’s stack the odds in our favor and get a proven OC.

[Big Blitz]

Keep thinking about that Gruden clip this week about Oline coach and OC

 

I think the Oline has been brutal the last 2 weeks.  

[HappyDays]

Just now, TH3 said:

Andy Reid has proven to be one of the best offensive minds in the NFL. Brady has proven nothing. Let’s stack the odds in our favor and get a proven OC.

 

No such thing as a proven OC looking for a job. Most proven OCs are head coaches, and the ones that aren't are soon to be head coaches. We have to get it out of our heads that a Kyle Shanahan level genius is going to show up and save the day, not unless we plan on firing McDermott in the offseason. So at this point we just need to add talent. Even making an effort to add talent would be an upgrade.

[bouds]

Im more of this is on the players than on the coaches. Long enough sample at this point of them pooping the bed with drops, ints, poor reads, fumbles. It’s rough watching this team trying to pass the ball. I’m getting nervous on every drop back because I feel something bad is going to happen. 

[Niagara Dude]

On 12/11/2023 at 2:17 PM, Mikie2times said:

 

-The 4 weeks prior to Dorsey being let go we ranked 8th in EPA on offense and scored 21.5 PPG. Both those numbers only go up if you take that data back further. 

-The 3 weeks Brady has been OC we rank 8th in EPA on offense and scored 28.6 PPG. 

 

We have generated almost 7 more PPG in the sample with Brady but in the same sample our defense ranked 9th in EPA vs 32nd in the previous 4 when Dorsey was here. 

 

-The Jets game was an avalanche

-Philly actually has a trash defense this year. Not sure if everybody has followed that. It also took a historic 3rd down performance in the Philly game to do some of the things we did. 

-Then we obviously just saw the KC game

 

What you can see with Joe B is more emphasis in the run game. A complete shift in utilizing Cooke as a receiver which is really exciting since we haven't seen any RB featured in the passing game in a long time. Josh does look more comfortable right now as well which is probably the most important thing. 

 

All this is good but I almost feel like we are just starving for competency to the point that we have anointed him when really it's not a crazy variance off what we saw before. EPA ranges in these levels would be historically poor for this offense.  Still, I see the progress and I'm very happy he is here vs Dorsey, I just don't know if I'm ready to hand him the keys to a race car. I guess I was hoping we would look at seeing who is the best in the offseason and perhaps we still will. 

Nothing we can do now but this offence needs an infusion of speed at skilled position.  Our receivers do not create enough separation, this will always be a passing league.  Losers with no QB focus on running the ball,  we need a coordinator that focuses on passing game

[TH3]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

No such thing as a proven OC looking for a job. Most proven OCs are head coaches, and the ones that aren't are soon to be head coaches. We have to get it out of our heads that a Kyle Shanahan level genius is going to show up and save the day, not unless we plan on firing McDermott in the offseason. So at this point we just need to add talent. Even making an effort to add talent would be an upgrade.

I thought this thread was about Joe Brady…..my answer is I am quite sure the Bills can do better and they should look outside the organization. My fear is the won’t. HNY.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, TH3 said:

I thought this thread was about Joe Brady…..my answer is I am quite sure the Bills can do better and they should look outside the organization. My fear is the won’t. HNY.

 

I think you'll find that any offensive coach would have trouble calling a consistent passing offense with below average pass catchers and an average OL. I don't really care if they keep Brady or hire someone else. It's not going to be a massive difference in either direction until they upgrade the personnel. In Brady's favor I will say I think he has done a good job attempting to lean into our strengths. The issue is we don't have a lot of strengths. Allen making a few great throws a game is pretty much all we got. Almost every completed pass looks difficult.

[TH3]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think you'll find that any offensive coach would have trouble calling a consistent passing offense with below average pass catchers and an average OL. I don't really care if they keep Brady or hire someone else. It's not going to be a massive difference in either direction until they upgrade the personnel. In Brady's favor I will say I think he has done a good job attempting to lean into our strengths. The issue is we don't have a lot of strengths. Allen making a few great throws a game is pretty much all we got. Almost every completed pass looks difficult.

Nah….for reference Bellicheck is a great DC and he makes a bunch of no name players always look good on D. 
Again ….are we talking about whether JB is our guy…and you say whatever….ummm Ok?

[L Ron Burgundy]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think you'll find that any offensive coach would have trouble calling a consistent passing offense with below average pass catchers and an average OL. I don't really care if they keep Brady or hire someone else. It's not going to be a massive difference in either direction until they upgrade the personnel. In Brady's favor I will say I think he has done a good job attempting to lean into our strengths. The issue is we don't have a lot of strengths. Allen making a few great throws a game is pretty much all we got. Almost every completed pass looks difficult.

Perfect post.  Our recievers can't get open certain games.  It's absurd.   I watched Cinci stay competitive without Burrow today.   How would we look without Josh?  The answer is we'd be completely f'd.  

[Maynard]

We back to playing loser offense again. It was a good ride for a few games.

[John from Riverside]

On 12/31/2023 at 4:31 PM, HappyDays said:

 

I think you'll find that any offensive coach would have trouble calling a consistent passing offense with below average pass catchers and an average OL. I don't really care if they keep Brady or hire someone else. It's not going to be a massive difference in either direction until they upgrade the personnel. In Brady's favor I will say I think he has done a good job attempting to lean into our strengths. The issue is we don't have a lot of strengths. Allen making a few great throws a game is pretty much all we got. Almost every completed pass looks difficult.

The offensive line is much better than you’ve given them credit

 

We actually have 1000 yard running back

[Maynard]

I feel like the offense got revitalized when Brady took over. However, it’s now come back down to earth. The sex appeal has worn off. Things appear stale again. Anxious to see what it looks like against Miami. 

[TheFunPolice]

I'll attend but I'm not going to be in the wedding party

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Maynard said:

I feel like the offense got revitalized when Brady took over. However, it’s now come back down to earth. The sex appeal has worn off. Things appear stale again. Anxious to see what it looks like against Miami. 

Wrs with no separation.  Inconsistent run game other than the Dallas day.  Relying on alot of tush pushes.  Our best receiver has disappeared.  The Brady honeymoon might be over?  At least Josh is no longer castrated. We badly need more weapons next year.

[MrEpsYtown]

Sorry long…Vs the Pats, I think Brady tried to get too cute with all of those little quick screens. Those were wasted downs. I am not a fan of going sideways. The other thing that concerned me was the Bills didn’t seem to run a ton of crossing patterns and mesh. Mesh had killed the Pats over the last few years with the mismatch in man in the slot. McDermott has said it, but this team isn’t great playing from behind. Josh tries to be a hero and Brady/Dorsey both seemed to try to win the game quickly. Patience wears thin. That was the issue with the KOR TD. 
 

For the most part I’d consider Brady a disciple of Sean Payton, who is an Erhardt-Perkins coach.  So in terms of the playbook, I am not sure what would really change if he became the full time guy with a full offseason. I’m sire he would add wrinkles and change concepts in building the playbook. But E-P is E-P. When Brady was at LSU he was all about the empty set, four-five wide, speed everywhere and using the back out of the backfield, which we have seen some of thus far. 
 

Brady has been around some really good coaches, and is still young, so I like his potential. He was able to climb the ladder so quick because he is smart and grinds. Am I convinced? I don’t know, but I do like him a lot. I say get him some speed on offense and I think he will thrive. 
 

The thing that scares me the most is the fact that the OC here becomes the CEO of the offense. Again he is still a young guy and with a defensive head coach, Brady is the boss of the offense. He’s surrounded by experienced guys who have been OCs like Rob Boras, Aaron Kromer, and Mike Shula. But if it’s not Brady, who is it going to be? 
 

You can’t get a premium OC from another team unless they get fired or you grab a guy who works for an offensive HC who calls his own plays. You want the Shanahan offense? Mike LaFluer from the Rams could make sense though he could get a head job. What LaFluer did with the Jets calling plays with Zack Wilson and Mike White is pretty impressive. Klint Kubiak  is well versed in the Shanahan offense and is currently the passing game coach in San Fran, he has also called plays before. Perhaps Brian Callahan of the Bengals who works under Zac Taylor. Alex Van Pelt of the Browns? Experienced West coast offense guy, perhaps a Bill Lazor? Again I am not really advocating for any of those guys aside from maybe LaFluer…but I think Brady is just as interesting as a lot of these guys.
 

Fun random fact, Brady played for Jimmye Laycock at William and Mary who coincidentally played QB for Marv Levy at William and Mary in the late 1960s. 

[Scott7975]

Not yet but it's tough to say.  First, this isn't really his offense.  Just a spin of Daboll/Dorsey playbook.  Second, we have don't have the playmakers honestly.  One thing I will say is McD having to call timeout and take over the offensive playcall was a red flag.  It should be obvious to just sneak there.  He tried to get cute and go shot gun.  Just no man.  I'm actually glad McD was smart enough to do that.

Edited January 3 by Scott7975

[TH3]

9 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Not yet but it's tough to say.  First, this isn't really his offense.  Just a spin of Daboll/Dorsey playbook.  Second, we have don't have the playmakers honestly.  One thing I will say is McD having to call timeout and take over the offensive playcall was a red flag.  It should be obvious to just sneak there.  He tried to get cute and go shot gun.  Just no man.  I'm actually glad McD was smart enough to do that.

How do we "not have playmakers"?

JA one of the most gifted playmaking QB's EVER - if not the most

SD - Funny - he was a superstar top 3 WR under Daboll AND last year - youngest to 800 catches....

Kincaid and Know VERY capable TE's

Cook - Proving to be a top threat

Gabe - Funny - he was close to a solid 2 under Daboll

Our Oline has been rated top 5 this year - and healthy

 

Just repeating stuff doesn't make it true. Our OC is a rookie who was an assistant to a failed first time OC - puhlease this aint that hard.

[Maynard]

13 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Wrs with no separation.  Inconsistent run game other than the Dallas day.  Relying on alot of tush pushes.  Our best receiver has disappeared.  The Brady honeymoon might be over?  At least Josh is no longer castrated. We badly need more weapons next year.

Agreed! We are badly in need of more weapons. A lot of good WR’s coming out in the coming draft. We best grab one.

[ngbills]

1 hour ago, TH3 said:

How do we "not have playmakers"?

JA one of the most gifted playmaking QB's EVER - if not the most

SD - Funny - he was a superstar top 3 WR under Daboll AND last year - youngest to 800 catches....

Kincaid and Know VERY capable TE's

Cook - Proving to be a top threat

Gabe - Funny - he was close to a solid 2 under Daboll

Our Oline has been rated top 5 this year - and healthy

 

Just repeating stuff doesn't make it true. Our OC is a rookie who was an assistant to a failed first time OC - puhlease this aint that hard.

I think there is always wishful thinking around here. The guy we have is always better than the one we don’t. The coach we have is better than the last etc. the second they are gone they are terrible or not worth it. I think it just makes people feel better than wondering. It can be scary to question things for some. So in this case it’s if Brady is not the guy what if it’s someone worse? 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, TH3 said:

How do we "not have playmakers"?

JA one of the most gifted playmaking QB's EVER - if not the most

SD - Funny - he was a superstar top 3 WR under Daboll AND last year - youngest to 800 catches....

Kincaid and Know VERY capable TE's

Cook - Proving to be a top threat

Gabe - Funny - he was close to a solid 2 under Daboll

Our Oline has been rated top 5 this year - and healthy

 

Just repeating stuff doesn't make it true. Our OC is a rookie who was an assistant to a failed first time OC - puhlease this aint that hard.

 

JA - Agree, but I am talking about playmakers for Josh Allen

SD - was 2-3 years younger and has fallen off a cliff this year. I think he is injured or something.  The last 3 games he has had between 50-65% snap counts.  Whose #1 only has that?

Kincaid - capable. I like him a lot but his use has been mostly short yard check down like stuff.

Cook - is a playmaker but he has hands problems. Drops the balls a lot and fumbles too much.

Gabe - unreliable.  Questionable hands. Lacks separation speed.  He is a one trick pony.

Oline - best Josh has had and played well this year.  Im specifically talking playmakers, not protection

 

OC's dont drop balls, fumble balls, and throw interceptions.  Josh needs a speedster that can get open, catch the ball, get YAC, and make contested catches.  Who does that right now?  

 

I'm not even saying that Brady is the guy.  I obviously said I don't know yet.  I also obviously said that it doesn't look good when your defensive minded head coach calls a timeout and takes over offensive play calls at the end of the game.  As I also said, this isn't even Brady's offense.  I would hope they would interview experienced guys at the end of the season and not just go through the motions to promote Brady.  There just isn't enough information to know if Brady is any good or not.  I will still stand by that Josh needs a better outside receiver to pair with Diggs. The rest they can roll with.

Edited January 3 by Scott7975

[TH3]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

I think there is always wishful thinking around here. The guy we have is always better than the one we don’t. The coach we have is better than the last etc. the second they are gone they are terrible or not worth it. I think it just makes people feel better than wondering. It can be scary to question things for some. So in this case it’s if Brady is not the guy what if it’s someone worse? 

 

31 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

JA - Agree, but I am talking about playmakers for Josh Allen

SD - was 2-3 years younger and has fallen off a cliff this year. I think he is injured or something.  The last 3 games he has had between 50-65% snap counts.  Whose #1 only has that?

Kincaid - capable. I like him a lot but his use has been mostly short yard check down like stuff.

Cook - is a playmaker but he has hands problems. Drops the balls a lot and fumbles too much.

Gabe - unreliable.  Questionable hands. Lacks separation speed.  He is a one trick pony.

Oline - best Josh has had and played well this year.  Im specifically talking playmakers, not protection

 

OC's dont drop balls, fumble balls, and throw interceptions.  Josh needs a speedster that can get open, catch the ball, get YAC, and make contested catches.  Who does that right now?  

 

I'm not even saying that Brady is the guy.  I obviously said I don't know yet.  I also obviously said that it doesn't look good when your defensive minded head coach calls a timeout and takes over offensive play calls at the end of the game.  As I also said, this isn't even Brady's offense.  I would hope they would interview experienced guys at the end of the season and not just go through the motions to promote Brady.  There just isn't enough information to know if Brady is any good or not.  I will still stand by that Josh needs a better outside receiver to pair with Diggs. The rest they can roll with.

Worse than Brady? That is why you have a GM and Coach right - to interview and hire? These two threads on JB seem to want to blame most of the O clunkiness on the players. My point is we have a NOBODY for OC.  Diggs off a cliff? Yup right after JB took over and doesn't understand that SD is not a burner/YAC guy but a find the open spot in a zone reciever. Cook fumbles are not even close to the top per carry. Kincaid - how about using him better? Gabe - Somehow Daboll got the most of him. How many times we gonna run that craptastic WR screen? Do we even have a real RB screen? Ever? How many times gonna run out of the shotgun? What happened to the once a game trick play Dabol always had? 

 

Could we have better personnel - yes. Could we get a better OC - no doubt.