Von Miller faces arrest in domestic violence case in Dallas

[Augie]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

One of the Bills worst free agent acquisitions in the history of the organization. What does the numbers look like if he’s cut after 2024 season?

 

They took a big swing, and it didn’t work out due to injury. He had 8.5 sacks before getting hurt. If he stays healthy and we win a Super Bowl it looks a lot different. But, he did get hurt, so we will never know. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

They took a big swing, and it didn’t work out due to injury. He had 8.5 sacks before getting hurt. If he stays healthy and we win a Super Bowl it looks a lot different. But, he did get hurt, so we will never know. 

Should've gotten a high character guy like Maxx Crosby

[MiltonWaddams]

1 minute ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Should've gotten a high character guy like Maxx Crosby

I’d love him on the Bills. Relentless motor, pursues well and “has that dog in him”

[Charles Romes]

17 hours ago, Mango said:

Rodgers renegotiating his own contract is way different.

 

As far as I know there is no contract in league history that was every voided based on any morality or behavior clauses. Like I said early Hernandez, Ruggs, AP, Vick, all carried cap hits for their teams. 
 

My best guess is Von retires and negotiates some sort of settlement.
 

But the idea that Von signed a contract up front that would void his entire deal based on off field behavior is a pipe dream. It’s never happened…ever.

 
 

It would make sense for the Bills and the limited market of teams (only Rams, Cowboys) competing for his services to insist on a strongly-worded morality clause.  Von not only had a domestic abuse claim issue that went away relatively quietly in 2021, but was also busted for PEDs early in his career.  

[RiotAct]

11 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Should've gotten a high character guy like Maxx Crosby

Too many tattoos.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Exactly.  I believe the league stated at the time that they would not use the Exempt list without criminal charges...when those weren't forthcoming, it was left ot the team.  Watson stating that he would not play for the Texans again and the team keeping him inactive, allowed the NFL that luxury.  If it had come to a point where the team was OK, dress, you're up and Watson put his pads and his jersey on, would the NFL have decided that 20+ civil cases might be the equivalent of 1 criminal case?  We'll never know.

 

Miller had a warrant out for his arrest, turned himself in, and was released on bond.  Will the league place him on the Exempt list?

For those of us who don't do this for a living, steps in a criminal case are:

1) investigation - enough evidence exists for probable cause that a crime occurred

2) arrest warrant issued by judge.  Subject is arrested by LEO or turns themselves in.

3) Subject is charged with crime after a charging document ('indictment', 'complaint', or 'information' depending upon jurisdiction).  If the charges are felonies, a grand jury may be involved (this is required for federal charges)

4) arraignment - the initial court hearing where the defendant formally hears the charges, enters a plea, and future court dates are set

5) discovery - each side discloses evidence to the other

6) trial (may be preceded by plea bargaining and preliminary hearings)
(It's well known that the best way to get right info on the internet is to post wrong info, so, I'm certain if I've got it wrong, someone will correct me.)
7) Verdict (can go directly from Step 4 to Step 7 if defendent pleads guilty or Step 5 to Step 7 if, after seeing evidence, a plea bargain is agreed)

Miller has completed step 2.  A judge issued an arrest warrant, he turned himself in, and he was released on bond.

 

If Miller's case proceeds through Step 3 where he's charged with a crime of DV, I believe the league would put him on the Exempt list, because he is high profile and their publicized NFL/NFLPA Domestic Violence Policy would be loudly and widely criticized as a "paper tiger" applying only to the little guy, if they don't.

Previously, the NFL has not suspended players until after Step 7 has played out.  But, they have suspended players (Bills own Tyrel Dodson; Panthers/Cowboy's Greg Hardy for two examples) where a guilty plea to a misdemeanor (not involving DV) was made, or where the court case was actually dismissed.

 

 

 

If they hadn't restructured, I don't believe they would have been able to make a number of the signings that have contributed this season so 🤷‍♂️

 

I could be wrong here but I think step 2 and 3 are backwards.  I don't believe a warrant for arrest is issued until a charge are filed.  I mean, its an arrest warrant.  You can't be arrested without being charged of a crime.

[MiltonWaddams]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

Too many tattoos.

You ever see that guy named Stefon Diggs?

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

[my example of a case where a guy got off 1st degree murder using a "consensual sexy times gone wrong" defense for tying his wife up with duct tape and setting the garage where she was tied up on fire)   Jury verdict.  He was tried for 1st degree murder, but in some manner that allowed the jury to find him "not guilty" of the highest charges but guilty of the lesser (this goes way beyond my level of legal understanding).

My point here was that even if there's evidence that Von pushed her, pulled her hair out, and choked her, there's always the "this was a consensual BDSM scene gone too far" defense.  If a jury bought it for a woman viciously bound with duct tape including across her mouth then found in a burning garage, they'll buy it here from a handsome personable "nice fella" like Von.

 

 

Miller's salary this season is league minimum.  So his game check is $72,000.  He would lose a maximum of $360,000 if he's suspended after the bye.

(plus playoff $$ if we get there).  But the league doesn't usually suspend quickly.  Miller will be paid if he's placed on the "Exempt" list, and Bills roster replacement.

 

If he's suspended the minimum 6 games under the league's DV policy, his salary next season is $17.145M or $0.925M per game plus, pro-rated signing and restructure bonuses of $6.37M or $.354M per game.  So he would lose $7.67M in salary and bonuses.

My expectation is that the DA will not charge Miller with DV, because if the alleged victim is not cooperating, it opens the case to the "consensual sexy times gone awry" defense, so why even bother? 

 

So my prediction is Miller will not go on the Exempt list. 

The league may still suspend him, but that would place the Bills in a tough spot because they can't operate with his cap space until the suspension is made and the inevitable appeals grind through.  Which, I believe, historically happens right before the first games get played.

Total suckage for Bills and Bills fans, IMO.

Great info, thanks. I was actually thinking that the lady he assaulted will have to be bought off, big time.

[Simon]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

My point here was that even if there's evidence that Von pushed her, pulled her hair out, and choked her, there's always the "this was a consensual BDSM scene gone too far" defense.

 

I'd think the 911 call might make that defense impractical?

[HappyDays]

This is the worst possible outcome. If he isn't charged we're stuck in limbo.

[RiotAct]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

This is the worst possible outcome. If he isn't charged we're stuck in limbo.

Yeah.  However, the team can still make him inactive, which would be a win on the field.

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, NoName said:

One of the Bills worst free agent acquisitions in the history of the organization. What does the numbers look like if he’s cut after 2024 season?

 

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

They took a big swing, and it didn’t work out due to injury. He had 8.5 sacks before getting hurt. If he stays healthy and we win a Super Bowl it looks a lot different. But, he did get hurt, so we will never know. 

 

Let's not pretend that anyone was opposed to the Bills making a big move. All I heard was championship caliber teams make bold moves. Well here you go. It ought to be a cautionary tale that not every deal works out. But it won't be.

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

I'd think the 911 call might make that defense impractical?

This is what we know from reports:

1) The victim called 911 and said she was being assaulted.
2)the victim recanted and said she lied on the first call.  

 

For anyone to claim they know anything more, means they know which of the two times the reporter lied. (Its possible to speculate, but only two people have first hand knowledge of which was a lie). 
 

As far as prosecuting Miller, if the woman who called 911 is willing to testify that she lied on that call, and told the truth the second time, this creates a problem for the prosecution.  One choice they have is to not proceed.  The other choice is to proceed and attack her on the stand. The conundrum for the prosecutor, is that they believe she is already a victim, attacking her on the stand makes her a different kind of victim.  They may not be willing to do this. If they go forward with the prosecution, and they attack her on the stand, and they lose the case, its an unmitigated disaster on multiple levels. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

This is the worst possible outcome. If he isn't charged we're stuck in limbo.

Why would we expect anything less than the worst outcome at this point 

[Bill from NYC]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

This is what we know from reports:

1) The victim called 911 and said she was being assaulted.
2)the victim recanted and said she lied on the first call.  

 

For anyone to claim they know anything more, means they know which of the two times the reporter lied. (Its possible to speculate, but only two people have first hand knowledge of which was a lie). 
 

As far as prosecuting Miller, if the woman who called 911 is willing to testify that she lied on that call, and told the truth the second time, this creates a problem for the prosecution.  One choice they have is to not proceed.  The other choice is to proceed and attack her on the stand. The conundrum for the prosecutor, is that they believe she is already a victim, attacking her on the stand makes her a different kind of victim.  They may not be willing to do this. If they go forward with the prosecution, and they attack her on the stand, and they lose the case, its an unmitigated disaster on multiple levels. 

I agree with everything you said except the bolded. 

 

The police that were on the scene would, judging by visible injuries, pulled out hair on the floor, etc. have a great possibility of knowing what happened.

[Chaos]

Just now, Bill from NYC said:

I agree with everything you said except the bolded. 

 

The police that were on the scene would, judging by visible injuries, pulled out hair on the floor, etc. have a great possibility of knowing what happened.

My reference was to "people relying on reports"

[RiotAct]

I mean, the Bills kicked Matt Araiza to the curb on totally circumstantial evidence.

 

I’ll be pretty upset if this gimp is still suiting up next Sunday against the Chiefs in a huge game for us and taking away snaps from other defensive ends who actually have a prayer of getting to Mahomes.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I mean, the Bills kicked Matt Araiza to the curb on totally circumstantial evidence.

 

I’ll be pretty upset if this gimp is still suiting up next Sunday against the Chiefs in a huge game for us and taking away snaps from other defensive ends who actually have a prayer of getting to Mahomes.

Agree that Miller should sit , even if production is the only consideration. The reality is the  situation with Araiza couldn’t be more different , though. He was as inconsequential as they come : a punter on a rookie deal who hadn’t played a down in the NFL - on  a team that rarely punts. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

He is 100% ineffective on the field, and evidence points to he did this charges or not.

 

Von, tre, and both poyer and Hyde need to go this offseason.  I said before,the Saints have been 100 mill over the cap and pulled it off.  Just take the hit and move on.

[alg]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

Let's not pretend that anyone was opposed to the Bills making a big move. All I heard was championship caliber teams make bold moves. Well here you go. It ought to be a cautionary tale that not every deal works out. But it won't be.

 

Agreed, but this signing was always a nightmare in the making. Paying $120 mil for a guy at the end of his career is never a good idea. Watching OBD lap it up was astonishing. This was Beane at his worst.