Joe Marino

[Heavy Kevi]

39 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So I've heard.  That's interesting though since Pegs just gave McBeane extensions, the extra years of which they haven't even entered.

 

Not sure I see Pegula admitting a mistake like that.  Hope I'm wrong.  

 

He's going to have a problem though.

 

Ticket prices for the new digs are going to be twice what they are now, plus PSLs.  

 

He was hoping to not have what's happening now, actually happen.  That's why the extensions.  Grease the skids for fleecing the fans.  

 

What's going on now is not good marketing and there's zero indication that the trend will reverse itself.  

 

 

 

This is a legitimate factor with the new stadium/higher ticket prices.

 

I have no confidence pegula will move on from McDermott this year, but after next year if this team still looks like, well... this; he's going to have to do something to excite the fans.

 

Whenever determining what a person or organization will do, always follow the money. Billionaires gonna billionaire and the team either needs to sustain success until the new stadium or there will have to be some razzle dazzle and flash to sell new tickets. A new HC (and voice for the org) would do just that.

[Bruffalo]

34 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

The stats and analytics say otherwise. Overwhelmingly.

Absolutely. The Bills are at their best under center utilizing play action.  It's not even close. 

 

Dorsey doesn't want to play that way though and clearly he (or McD) refuses to pivot, so we're stuck with this round peg in the square hole situation. That's why I think we look so much better in a hurry up style, because Allen and the team are actually playing to their strengths instead of Dorsey calling the same bland uninspired trash. 

[PBF81]

36 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

This is a legitimate factor with the new stadium/higher ticket prices.

 

I have no confidence pegula will move on from McDermott this year, but after next year if this team still looks like, well... this; he's going to have to do something to excite the fans.

 

Whenever determining what a person or organization will do, always follow the money. Billionaires gonna billionaire and the team either needs to sustain success until the new stadium or there will have to be some razzle dazzle and flash to sell new tickets. A new HC (and voice for the org) would do just that.

 

Ticket sales were supposed to open up soon though.  They're supposed to have virtual seat selections/tours, etc. 

 

The irony to the entire thing is that Pegula extended the exactly so that this wouldn't happen.  

 

 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

That's exactly why change is needed Gunner. You can see the offense struggle week after week. Lack of creativity, game planning, schemes, and talent. Dorsey sucks and McD is clueless and hands off. 

 

Not sure how any fan can't see that the McD era is crumbling before our eyes. It's never been able to recover from 13 seconds. The call for change will get stronger and it should. 

 

Last night was nothing new. Once again the defense couldn't come close to stopping or containing the Bengals. Bengals easily scored on their first two possessions. Very common theme of a McD defense to start out slow and give the opposing offenses a TD or two. You are not going to win doing that against good teams. The Bengals had the confidence to take the ball after winning the coin toss. That told me a lot about what they thought about the Buffalo D. Not much. The defense played poorly in the first half.

 

Then when the D needed a stop it couldn't give the offense a chance. Was anyone really surprised by the results? I wasn't. 

 

All in all the defense was ok but not nearly good enough. It amazes me how Bills fans continue to think the Bills D can get it done. Where was the pass rush? McD had to blitz to generate pressure. Everyone knows Burrow will toast you when you blitz. That's pretty much what happened. Truthfully, the Bengals offense was sloppy at times. The defensive injuries are too big to overcome. Why others can't see it is beyond me. 

 

Offensively, the Bills shot their load on the first drive. Looked great, fast paced, spreading the ball around, and great rhythm. Worked so great that they abandoned it for much of the game. Still shaking my head about that. McD is so knee deep in the defense that he's incapable of giving much input to the offense. Maybe I'm wrong here.inobiw I'm right in saying the offense isn't good enough. Cook replaced by old man Murray, Gabe is not a WR2, Harty is a waste of space pace, and Sherfield is equally unimpressive. The merry go round of mediocre patch work wide receivers had been unsuccessful. The oline is not as good as it needs to be. Brown absolutely blows. Cook is a JAG. The only bright spot are Diggs and Kincaid. Allen continues to sputter and throw INTs. Allen is not the Allen of two years ago. He's been cut off at the knees, had trouble being patient, and struggles to read certain defenses. He's part of the problem because he has to be superman in order for the Bills to win. Yesterday, he wasn't close to being superman. Closer to wonder woman. 

 

After the Bills muss the playoffs or go one and done the fans will start to see the obvious. The writing been on the wall. You and others smarter than myself remain in denial. 

 

Next year isn't going to be better without significant changes which includes coaches. Frankly, McD will have another year of wasting Allen and Diggs. Dorsey will be his new fall guy. 

 

Rinse and repeat. 

merry go round of mediocre patch work wide receivers 

Well said, sir. 

[chongli]

Waiting for this thread to get a "name only" title change by a mod.

[transplantbillsfan]

10 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Great information by Joe. He says it way better than I can. Worth a listen. 

 

 

 

I'm just glad it sounds like he's coming around on the "Dorsey's a big problem!" train!

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

9 hours ago, colin said:

Coming into this game, they showed Allen lead the NFL in TDS, had the highest completion percentage, and top 5 passing yards and rating.

 

After the game, we lead the NFL in epa per offensive drive, and point differential.

 

The bad results and our barely 500 record points to coaching and coaching alone.  This team lacks confidence, has no consistency, and makes the same predictable mistakes over and over.

 

3rd and 10 option routes outside the numbers to midget wrs is insane.  

 

We see our d get smoked by tempo and quick passing vs our zone, so we attack another team playing soft zone with delayed handoffs out of shotgun and slow developing plays.

 

If we miss the playoffs, the whole front office has to go.  If we are one and done in the playoffs, they whole front office has to go, 

 

Frankly, walking papers should have been mass printed after 13 seconds.

Super great post here!

[newcam2012]

18 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm just glad it sounds like he's coming around on the "Dorsey's a big problem!" train!

Joe is very fair and probably gives the staff more the benefit of the doubt. Fir him to be very critical of Dorsey says a lot. 

[Bruffalo]

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Joe is very fair and probably gives the staff more the benefit of the doubt. Fir him to be very critical of Dorsey says a lot. 

 

Absolutely.  I think Joe's opinion is probably the best in all of the Buffalo media; he just understands the game at a really high level and is excellent at scouting talent. 

 

There seems to be fairly universal agreement that Dorsey needs to either radically change or be fired.  I'm all for the firing. 

[newcam2012]

Just now, Bruffalo said:

 

Absolutely.  I think Joe's opinion is probably the best in all of the Buffalo media; he just understands the game at a really high level and is excellent at scouting talent. 

 

There seems to be fairly universal agreement that Dorsey needs to either radically change or be fired.  I'm all for the firing. 

I agree but I don't think that solves everything. I think the next logical step is firing McD. He has almost lost the team in my opinion. Since 13 seconds he hasn't been the same. What he's selling is falling short. The  "complimentary football" theme is falling on deaf ears. His ability to have his team ready, game preparation, and motivation has fallen short. That was his strength but it's no longer the case. 

 

As long as McD is in charge the team will likely fall short just like their leader. 13 seconds seems more like a normal than an anomaly. 

 

Tear it down, bring in new innovative offensive minded coaches. Get aggressive and assertive. Utilize Allen appropriately and get in some better weapons. 

 

You just can't make minor tweaks here. They just aren't working and will likely continue to fail. The Bills are getting worse not better. At this point, there is little to lose here making the appropriate changes. 

[Bruffalo]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree but I don't think that solves everything. I think the next logical step is firing McD. He has almost lost the team in my opinion. Since 13 seconds he hasn't been the same. What he's selling is falling short. The  "complimentary football" theme is falling on deaf ears. His ability to have his team ready, game preparation, and motivation has fallen short. That was his strength but it's no longer the case. 

 

As long as McD is in charge the team will likely fall short just like their leader. 13 seconds seems more like a normal than an anomaly. 

 

Tear it down, bring in new innovative offensive minded coaches. Get aggressive and assertive. Utilize Allen appropriately and get in some better weapons. 

 

You just can't make minor tweaks here. They just aren't working and will likely continue to fail. The Bills are getting worse not better. At this point, there is little to lose here making the appropriate changes. 

I'm gonna say that getting changing the OC isn't a minor tweak.

 

I'm also gonna say that I don't disagree with what you're saying, but unless we completely bottom out for the rest of the season I don't see any world where McD even gets on the hot seat. 

[newcam2012]

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

I'm gonna say that getting changing the OC isn't a minor tweak.

 

I'm also gonna say that I don't disagree with what you're saying, but unless we completely bottom out for the rest of the season I don't see any world where McD even gets on the hot seat. 

Sadly, I agree that McD isn't going anywhere soon. I suspect we will be having a similar conversation next year when McD and the Bills fall woefully short again. 

[Aimee75]

10 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Make games shootouts. The defense cannot force turnovers for anything at the moment so let the offense take the preferred approach. If it means games are 38-35 instead of 24-18 so be it.

Shootouts are our only chance. I think what has really been hurting us is constantly getting the ball in bad field position, and the other team starting off at midfield often, it seems.

 

But yeah, we have to win shootouts, but our offense has no identity right now, and seems like they are still trying to figure it out.

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, Mango said:

Worth noting with some of the Gabe Davis criticisms this week. “Where was Gabe?”

 

Diggs and Kincaid did everything we begged from a first and second target. They were open a ton, caught just about everything, 16 catches for about 160. We got that 1/2 production everybody was begging for. Davis was a role player on the outside. That’s what people have pounded the table for. 
 

We have to do better at getting him and Cook involved situationally for chunk plays and RAC. Let Shakir find some soft spots. Davis brings some speed and size on the outside, and Cook should be tearing up LB’s in the passing game. Those guys are certainly good enough to fill those roles with the emerging of Kincaid as a legit option. 

 

This isn't what I was pounding the table for.  I was pounding the table for Davis to be a full WR and not a streak down the sideline guy.  It's no coincidence that his best games have been when he is used all over the field and not just running streaks like Dorsey has him do most games.  I still don't think the guy is very good but he is decent and using him as just a deep ball threat is not the way to use him.

 

This is last week and also the playoff game with Daboll.  

 

 

I will take that all day over this crap

 

 

And yes, I realize that in this pic he got 2 TDS and 171 yards but his use was limited and too one trick pony.  He has a lot of charts of this one trick pony. Look at the use in the first pick.  It makes it much harder for a D to defend an offense as a whole when we have guys running routes all over the place than just a broken play down the sideline.  It gives Josh more options in the play.  I will take consistent target anywhere on the field over a guy that gets raw yards a couple times a game on a busted play.

 

I do love we are using Kincaid and others more though.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

They did make plays.  Can’t put the game on them.  Defense did its job.

 

You got downvoted but you are correct.  The D made stops for most of the game.  The Bengals only scored 3 points the entire second half while our O did nothing outside a late 4th qtr td all game long.  The game was there to be had if our offense can score.  Anyone blaming the defense is a moron. 18 points doesn't win you a football game against a superbowl contender with a top 5 QB.

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, Mango said:

This is where I don’t know what to do. 
 

Both first and second down had guys wide open, uncovered. I expect Derek Carr or Ryan Tannehill to just “run the play that’s called” as Josh put it in his post game presser. But if your guy is top 5, you have to know not to just chuck it up there. You have to see the play beyond the play call. Just because a call is designed to go to “x” doesn’t mean you have to throw it there if he’s covered and others are open. 
 

And if others are open. Is the problem still the call?

 

Part of me is pointing the finger but also I think those are legitimate questions. 

It's not a matter of just if they are open.  It's where they are in progressions, when they are open, if they are in the right spot, if the QB can see them, if there is a throwing lane, is the guy even worth throwing to in that moment in time, etc etc etc.  There is more to it than just the still frame image that people like to post on here. This stuff all happens in the blink of an eye.  I am not saying that Josh is innocent in this but too many times I have seen a still shot here showing some open guy when it wasn't necessarily the case.

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I said it in the GDT but at the moment Joe Burrow pre-snap is streets ahead of Allen. That they are rated so closely shows you how mecurial Josh Allen can be once the ball is snapped. But that is a hard way to live in the NFL. I think maybe a different OC could help him with that. Simplify some of what he is reading, maybe Daboll was better at that. But Josh has gotta start winning a few snaps before the ball is in play.

 

Agree, processing the field is not where Josh shines and it is where Burrow shines.  Thats why I don't like Dorsey.  Its not the right offense for Josh.  They should be having wrinkles of this offense to train him into it but they went full bore with it and just expect him to be Tom Brady with a bunch of guys that lack separation ability to boot.

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

This is a legitimate factor with the new stadium/higher ticket prices.

 

I have no confidence pegula will move on from McDermott this year, but after next year if this team still looks like, well... this; he's going to have to do something to excite the fans.

 

Whenever determining what a person or organization will do, always follow the money. Billionaires gonna billionaire and the team either needs to sustain success until the new stadium or there will have to be some razzle dazzle and flash to sell new tickets. A new HC (and voice for the org) would do just that.

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

This isn't what I was pounding the table for.  I was pounding the table for Davis to be a full WR and not a streak down the sideline guy.  It's no coincidence that his best games have been when he is used all over the field and not just running streaks like Dorsey has him do most games.  I still don't think the guy is very good but he is decent and using him as just a deep ball threat is not the way to use him.

 

This is last week and also the playoff game with Daboll.  

 

 

I will take that all day over this crap

 

 

And yes, I realize that in this pic he got 2 TDS and 171 yards but his use was limited and too one trick pony.  He has a lot of charts of this one trick pony. Look at the use in the first pick.  It makes it much harder for a D to defend an offense as a whole when we have guys running routes all over the place than just a broken play down the sideline.  It gives Josh more options in the play.  I will take consistent target anywhere on the field over a guy that gets raw yards a couple times a game on a busted play.

 

I do love we are using Kincaid and others more though.

I'm mean how many times are you going to bash Davis? Like a broken record dude. We get your point. You don't have to say it over and over and over. Give it a break Scott. 

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I'm mean how many times are you going to bash Davis? Like a broken record dude. We get your point. You don't have to say it over and over and over. Give it a break Scott. 

 

Nice try with that but you apparantly didn't read the post in some cringe effort to get back at me for what I said to you yesterday.  I didn't bash Davis in my post. I said the team is using him wrong.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You got downvoted but you are correct.  The D made stops for most of the game.  The Bengals only scored 3 points the entire second half while our O did nothing outside a late 4th qtr td all game long.  The game was there to be had if our offense can score.  Anyone blaming the defense is a moron. 18 points doesn't win you a football game against a superbowl contender with a top 5 QB.

Partly true but not totally. Conveniently, you only talked about the second half. Can we talk about the first half? How do you think they did? They gave up 21 points and the Bengals matched up and down the field in the beginning of the game. The significance of this wasn't small. Their offense set the tone for the game. 

 

So yes the offense sucked and sucked badly with the exception of the first drive. 

 

However, let's not try to portray that the Bills defense is good. They are not and when it counted they looked like Swiss cheese at the end of the game. 

 

Let's paint accurate pictures here. 

[Scott7975]

15 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Partly true but not totally. Conveniently, you only talked about the second half. Can we talk about the first half? How do you think they did? They gave up 21 points and the Bengals matched up and down the field in the beginning of the game. The significance of this wasn't small. Their offense set the tone for the game. 

 

So yes the offense sucked and sucked badly with the exception of the first drive. 

 

However, let's not try to portray that the Bills defense is good. They are not and when it counted they looked like Swiss cheese at the end of the game. 

 

Let's paint accurate pictures here. 

 

Other teams score points.  Especially elite teams and the Bengals are certainly elite with many weapons.  Did you expect a shut out?  Would it make any difference if they scored on the first drive and then in the 3rd quarter instead?  The D actually had a huge stop in the first half after our offense gave up the ball on our own 32 and the Bengals came away with zero points from it.

 

So yeah, you can say the Bills defense sucked on the first two drives but they were going to score.  Its not about what it is on the first two drives.  Its about what it is over the course of the entire game.  The fact is the offense put the D in bad spots and the D held an elite offense to 24 points.  Only 3 points in the entire second half.  Im bummed about those first two drives but they wouldn't matter if our O could score and again, we were never going to pitch a shut out.  That same team just torched the 49ers last week in an away game.  Considering our D fielded a few backup scrubs during the game, I can't put this loss on the D.  They did a good enough job to win a football game.  The offense didn't do its part.  The game was never even close.  The offense didn't make it close until mid 4th quarter while having plenty of opportunity to do so.  Thats what you expect out of a D... give your offense opportunity.  They did.  The offense couldn't match.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975

[newcam2012]

29 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Other teams score points.  Especially elite teams and the Bengals are certainly elite with many weapons.  Did you expect a shut out?  Would it make any difference if they scored on the first drive and then in the 3rd quarter instead?  The D actually had a huge stop in the first half after our offense gave up the ball on our own 32 and the Bengals came away with zero points from it.

 

So yeah, you can say the Bills defense sucked on the first two drives but they were going to score.  Its not about what it is on the first two drives.  Its about what it is over the course of the entire game.  The fact is the offense put the D in bad spots and the D held an elite offense to 24 points.  Only 3 points in the entire second half.  Im bummed about those first two drives but they wouldn't matter if our O could score and again, we were never going to pitch a shut out.  That same team just torched the 49ers last week in an away game.  Considering our D fielded a few backup scrubs during the game, I can't put this loss on the D.  They did a good enough job to win a football game.  The offense didn't do its part.  The game was never even close.  The offense didn't make it close until mid 4th quarter while having plenty of opportunity to do so.  Thats what you expect out of a D... give your offense opportunity.  They did.  The offense couldn't match.

You expect your D to make at stop at the end of the game to give your offense a chance to win it. They failed to get the stop. Furst play of that critical drive the Bills D was gashed on a basic 30 yard screen pass. Von whiffed on a critical third down play. They had an opportunity to stop the Bengals. I expected the Bills defense wouldn't stop the Bengals when they had to. 

 

Like I said the offense sucked and most of the blame can go in that direction. So we are in agreement there. 

 

However, the defense has to make a stop to get the ball back to the offense to try to win the game. 

 

 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

You expect your D to make at stop at the end of the game to give your offense a chance to win it. They failed to get the stop. Furst play of that critical drive the Bills D was gashed on a basic 30 yard screen pass. Von whiffed on a critical third down play. They had an opportunity to stop the Bengals. I expected the Bills defense wouldn't stop the Bengals when they had to. 

 

Like I said the offense sucked and most of the blame can go in that direction. So we are in agreement there. 

 

However, the defense has to make a stop to get the ball back to the offense to try to win the game. 

 

 

 

No, I don't.  It would be nice but the D stopped them and gave the offense a chance all 2nd half.  It's not their fault the O didn't take advantage sooner.  I did expect them to make a stop on the Pats after we took the lead with 2 mins left but thats a different situation.  The fact is the offense had a chance all game to take advantage thanks to the D.  I'm not going to fault them for not making a stop to give the offense a ball back when they did so all game long.

[Aimee75]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

You expect your D to make at stop at the end of the game to give your offense a chance to win it. They failed to get the stop. Furst play of that critical drive the Bills D was gashed on a basic 30 yard screen pass. Von whiffed on a critical third down play. They had an opportunity to stop the Bengals. I expected the Bills defense wouldn't stop the Bengals when they had to. 

 

Like I said the offense sucked and most of the blame can go in that direction. So we are in agreement there. 

 

However, the defense has to make a stop to get the ball back to the offense to try to win the game. 

 

 

I saw it coming too. Just like The Pats game. It's really frustrating. It's the "coming through when we need them" aspect that drives me crazy. We almost lost to The Giants because of it, and The Bucs. I know our D is very banged up, but we still have Oliver, Rousseau, Hyde and Poyer, Von etc 

 

I can't even imagine the bloodbaths about to come when we start playing the high flying offenses, like The Eagles around the corner.

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I saw it coming too. Just like The Pats game. It's really frustrating. It's the "coming through when we need them" aspect that drives me crazy. We almost lost to The Giants because of it, and The Bucs. I know our D is very banged up, but we still have Oliver, Rousseau, Hyde and Poyer, Von etc 

 

I can't even imagine the bloodbaths about to come when we start playing the high flying offenses, like The Eagles around the corner.

The Eagles are going to annihilate the Bills. 

[newcam2012]

47 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

No, I don't.  It would be nice but the D stopped them and gave the offense a chance all 2nd half.  It's not their fault the O didn't take advantage sooner.  I did expect them to make a stop on the Pats after we took the lead with 2 mins left but thats a different situation.  The fact is the offense had a chance all game to take advantage thanks to the D.  I'm not going to fault them for not making a stop to give the offense a ball back when they did so all game long.

Good defenses make stops to give their offense a chance at the end of games. That is a sign of a good and effective defense.

 

Your expectations are way too low here. I want a defense who can make the big stop. Apparently, that's just a bonus to you...

 

That's exactly why Von was brought to Buffalo. It's to close out games and prevent offenses from closing you out. Did you happen to see Von on the critical play? 

Edited November 7, 2023 by newcam2012

[BillMafia716ix]

For the life of me, I just wish Josh Allen had a respectable running game. We continue to play this finesse style of offense and it annoys the crap out of me because everything has to be on his shoulders. Why are we throwing the ball on 3rd and 2? Instead of just lining up under center and handing it off or working off play action. A player like Josh would thrive in an offense like that. 
 
I watch Philly play and say to myself Josh Allen would look great in their offense. But instead we just wanna spread out go 5 wide and play backyard football. 

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Good defenses make stops to give their offense a chance at the end of games. That is a sign of a good and effective defense.

 

Your expectations are way too low here. I want a defense who can make the big stop. Apparently, that's just a bonus to you...

 

That's exactly why Von was brought to Buffalo. It's to close out games and prevent offenses from closing you out. Did you happen to see Von on the critical play? 

 

I expect that if they are healthy.  Did you see the list of players on defense on that final drive?  You're asking the C crew to stop an elite offense.  For the last time, they stopped the Bengals all game long.  Where was the offense?  The offense had 6 other drives to score a TD on. Yeah, thats right.... 6 other drives.  You want to blame the defense over 1 drive.  It wasn't even a guarantee the offense scored if they did get the ball back.  Von is still coming back from an ACL. That takes time.  Just because he is on the field doesn't mean he is back to himself.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975

[RunTheBall]

The only quick move that can be made to improve this team this season is to fire Dorsey and try someone else at play calling. Won’t happen.

 

Do I think it will work? Probably not. But, you can’t keep rolling this same garbage offense out there week after week and expect different results.

 

A huge problem on both sides of the ball is predictability. It’s gotten to the point where you can hear the other team’s players call out our plays on tv! How many times in the post game do you need to hear the opponent say something along the lines of “we knew exactly what they were going to run”. I mean come on, how many of you armchair coaches can call our plays pretty consistently? I know I can. It’s so pathetic it’s laughable.

 

And please stop with the Davis is a good WR talk. He’s DEAD Jim. The guy runs 3 routes, you hear it all the time. He completely disappears. He had a good game last week because DBs were playing 12 yards off him and Dorsey actually used his pea sized noggin for once and had Gabe run some trend breaking routes (basically anything other that a deep route). The problem is as soon as teams start giving Gabe only 7 yards off the line his entire route tree is covered because he gets ZERO separation when he can’t take 6 seconds to ramp up to top speed 60 yards down field. Stop. Davis is done.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by RunTheBall

[billieve420]

Defense did enough to win the game. The offense which is supposed to be the strength of this team has continued its pattern of starting slow and then trying to pick things up when it is too late. Offensively things have become too disjointed since last year and it appears teams have figured them out. So it is a combination of scheme and the QB. Both Dorsey and Josh need to fix things. If they don’t expect Dorsey to be fired at the end of the season. Some of the blame also falls on McDermott who I think can be overly controlling with all his complimentary football talk. My guess this caused some friction with Daboll when he was here.

Edited November 7, 2023 by billieve420

[Bermuda Triangle]

Is it unreasonable to ask the defense to come up with a turnover?  1 in 4 games is absurdly embarrassing, injuries or not.  If the backups can't be expected to perform at an NFL level, then that's on Beane.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I expect that if they are healthy.  Did you see the list of players on defense on that final drive?  You're asking the C crew to stop an elite offense.  For the last time, they stopped the Bengals all game long.  Where was the offense?  The offense had 6 other drives to score a TD on. Yeah, thats right.... 6 other drives.  You want to blame the defense over 1 drive.  It wasn't even a guarantee the offense scored if they did get the ball back.  Von is still coming back from an ACL. That takes time.  Just because he is on the field doesn't mean he is back to himself.

 

Other than the worst possible 1st quarter where we gave up back to back 5+ minute TD drives ? 

 

That's as silly as saying the offense played great because they scored a TD on their first and last possession. 

 

The injuries are a valid excuse, but the defense played like garbage. It would've been 30+ points allowed (with 0 forced turnovers) if the refs hadn't taken that 55 yard FG off the board on a phantom false start and if the Bengals were trying to score on the last drive instead of kill the clock. 

 

Defenses are allowed to stop elite offenses you know. The Cowboys were trailing 28-17 with 10 minutes left in the 4th Q and their offense just turned the ball over on downs. Their DEF stepped up against an elite offense and forced 3 straight 3 and outs on the Eagles final 3 possessions. They still fell short, but at least their DEF gave the OFF a chance. 

[Scott7975]

21 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Other than the worst possible 1st quarter where we gave up back to back 5+ minute TD drives ? 

 

That's as silly as saying the offense played great because they scored a TD on their first and last possession. 

 

The injuries are a valid excuse, but the defense played like garbage. It would've been 30+ points allowed (with 0 forced turnovers) if the refs hadn't taken that 55 yard FG off the board on a phantom false start and if the Bengals were trying to score on the last drive instead of kill the clock. 

 

Defenses are allowed to stop elite offenses you know. The Cowboys were trailing 28-17 with 10 minutes left in the 4th Q and their offense just turned the ball over on downs. Their DEF stepped up against an elite offense and forced 3 straight 3 and outs on the Eagles final 3 possessions. They still fell short, but at least their DEF gave the OFF a chance. 

 

It doesn't matter if they gave up back to back drives. Its the same points if its back to back or 1 score in 2 different quarters. It's over the course of the whole game.  The offense had 6 drives they could have scored on where the defense held them to no points and they did diddly with it other than 3 and out or turn the ball over.  We turned the ball over twice to an elite offense and the rag tag defense still held them to 24 points.

 

As for the rest... ifs ifs ifs.  None of it happened so it doesn't count.  How about the tripping that would have given us a first down and 15 more yards.  We could have went on to score, you don't know.  It's all ifs.

 

You can say all you want.  The fact is the offense scored 18 points and the defense allowed 24.  If you expect a rag tag defense to hold an elite team under 18 points, you are out of your mind.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

It doesn't matter if they gave up back to back drives. Its the same points if its back to back or 1 score in 2 different quarters. It's over the course of the whole game.  The offense had 6 drives they could have scored on where the defense held them to no points and they did diddly with it other than 3 and out or turn the ball over.  We turned the ball over twice to an elite offense and the rag tag defense still held them to 24 points.

 

As for the rest... ifs ifs ifs.  None of it happened so it doesn't count.  How about the tripping that would have given us a first down and 15 more yards.  We could have went on to score, you don't know.  It's all ifs.

 

You can say all you want.  The fact is the offense scored 18 points and the defense allowed 24.  If you expect a rag tag defense to hold an elite team under 18 points, you are out of your mind.

 

This. 

 

I still have criticisms of the defense on Sunday, particularly some of the playcalling. But I watched the same Bengals offense on the road score 31 against the 49ers defense with multiple all pros a week earlier. If you'd said to me before that game "Cincy will score 24" I'd have said the Bills have a very legit chance to win that game. The fact is the offense sucked for much of the game again. Too many mistakes and can't get out of its own way. 

[Royale with Cheese]

35 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Other than the worst possible 1st quarter where we gave up back to back 5+ minute TD drives ? 

 

That's as silly as saying the offense played great because they scored a TD on their first and last possession. 

 

The injuries are a valid excuse, but the defense played like garbage. It would've been 30+ points allowed (with 0 forced turnovers) if the refs hadn't taken that 55 yard FG off the board on a phantom false start and if the Bengals were trying to score on the last drive instead of kill the clock. 

 

Defenses are allowed to stop elite offenses you know. The Cowboys were trailing 28-17 with 10 minutes left in the 4th Q and their offense just turned the ball over on downs. Their DEF stepped up against an elite offense and forced 3 straight 3 and outs on the Eagles final 3 possessions. They still fell short, but at least their DEF gave the OFF a chance. 

 

Cincy had a total of 9 drives and scored 3 TD's and 24 points total.  

 

I'm confused on how you're saying the injuries are valid, but immediately say they played like garbage to it's really not an excuse.  Its like you're saying an injury filled Bills defense should be able to stop the fully healthy Bengals offense.  Why is 24 points enough to beat the Bills?

So the Cowboys get accolades for 3 straight 3 and outs but our defense gives up 3 points in the ENTIRE 2nd half and that's just too much or something?

 

Phantom false start?  What Tim Settle's roughing the passer a phantom call or legit?

 

 

 

 

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

15 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

It doesn't matter if they gave up back to back drives. Its the same points if its back to back or 1 score in 2 different quarters. It's over the course of the whole game.  The offense had 6 drives they could have scored on where the defense held them to no points and they did diddly with it other than 3 and out or turn the ball over.  We turned the ball over twice to an elite offense and the rag tag defense still held them to 24 points.

 

As for the rest... ifs ifs ifs.  None of it happened so it doesn't count.  How about the tripping that would have given us a first down and 15 more yards.  We could have went on to score, you don't know.  It's all ifs.

 

You can say all you want.  The fact is the offense scored 18 points and the defense allowed 24.  If you expect a rag tag defense to hold an elite team under 18 points, you are out of your mind.

 

There's more to a game than just points. Do you think the Bills DEF (24 points allowed) played better than the Jets DEF (27 points allowed) this week ?

 

Turnovers, TOP, and Yards all matter and our defense was absolutely gashed the entire game without forcing a turnover. 

 

Looking at points allowed, turnovers forced, TOP, and yards allowed the DEF gave us maybe a 10-20% chance of winning the game. I'd put the offense around the same percentile. 

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This. 

 

I still have criticisms of the defense on Sunday, particularly some of the playcalling. But I watched the same Bengals offense on the road score 31 against the 49ers defense with multiple all pros a week earlier. If you'd said to me before that game "Cincy will score 24" I'd have said the Bills have a very legit chance to win that game. The fact is the offense sucked for much of the game again. Too many mistakes and can't get out of its own way. 

 

We gave up 3 second half points.  Our D kept us in the game.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

There's more to a game than just points. Do you think the Bills DEF (24 points allowed) played better than the Jets DEF (27 points allowed) this week ?

 

Turnovers, TOP, and Yards all matter and our defense was absolutely gashed the entire game without forcing a turnover. 

 

Looking at points allowed, turnovers forced, TOP, and yards allowed the DEF gave us maybe a 10-20% chance of winning the game. I'd put the offense around the same percentile. 

 

Why is 24 points too much for our offense to overcome?  

 

Our TOP was bad because on our 3 punts, we ran 10 plays.  Our INT was on 2 plays.  

 

If it takes only 24 points on defense to give us a 10-20% chance of winning?

[Scott7975]

13 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

There's more to a game than just points. Do you think the Bills DEF (24 points allowed) played better than the Jets DEF (27 points allowed) this week ?

 

Turnovers, TOP, and Yards all matter and our defense was absolutely gashed the entire game without forcing a turnover. 

 

Looking at points allowed, turnovers forced, TOP, and yards allowed the DEF gave us maybe a 10-20% chance of winning the game. I'd put the offense around the same percentile. 

 

Gashed the entire game - 35 yards punt, 4 yards punt, 34 yards punt, 23 yards turnover of downs

ToP our offense - 1:40  punt, 13 seconds int, 2:09 punt, 1:37 end of half, 1:18 punt, 3:55 fumble

 

What gave us 10-20% chance at winning the game was Allen throwing an int and Kincaid fumbling the football after driving the field and 4 other drives the offense did nothing.

 

Sorry, but the defense did fine.  Fact remains the offense had 6 drives that they could have scored on and did nothing.  You aren't going to win football games if you keep giving the ball back to an elite offense from turnovers and punts.  The offense has to score.  It didn't.  Not the defenses fault.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975