Devils advocate...what is Josh is the problem?

[Mango]

Josh has done this for a good portion of his career. He’s generally bailed himself out of it with his athleticism and/or by throwing fast balls. 
 

Josh is very good. He can be better too. But he isn’t THE problem. There are a lot of things going on right now. But like everything else in the NFL, most things are covered up by better QB play. Mid season it’s maybe the only plausible solution. There isn’t another OC. We can’t go back and re-write contacts, or re-do FA/the draft. 

[BaaadThingsMan]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

Huh?

Exactly. I'm confused by the title myself.

[Low Positive]

Just now, BaaadThingsMan said:

Exactly. I'm confused by the title myself.

Gotcha. I read right over that.

[Mango]

46 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Toward the end of 2021, Josh was firing on all cylinders.  Daboll let his athleticism loose. Then something was lost when Dorsey took over. Josh was top 3 in MVP voting for 3 straight years. To some degree because of the Jets debacle, he's been neutered or tamed if you will.  His edge just isn't there anymore and it's reflected in his behavior on the bench. He's not animated, he's not firing up his players. A scrub 7th round qb pretending to be an NFL OC isn't helping. McD has no clue about offensive structure. We should've lost to NYG, and yesterday was just as embarrassing. 

Josh had his most rushing attempts with his second best YPC last year. He was plenty athletic last year. Whatever is going on right now is a new problem for everybody. 
 

When we say “it’s been worse since Dorsey took over…” you have to toss out a year of him as OC (2022) where it wasn’t worse, and wasn’t less athletic and all 3 years as Josh’s QB coach. It seems like a reach to say that one day Dorsey woke and and said “let’s do a 180 on absolutely everything we’ve been working on for the last 4 years”.

 

It feels like the easy answer here is that our QB who has been inconsistent since we drafted him has been…inconsistent. 
 

I don’t love all of Dorsey’s play designs. I also don’t like all his play calls. But this idea that there has been drastic shift in what Josh is and is not allowed to do seems far out there. Allen has had 2 great games. A mediocre game or two, and two clunkers. 
 

The offense needs to evolve. That includes Josh. 

[Mr. WEO]

what is what is?

[Success]

I saw on one of the shows that he had to hurry his throws over 40% of the time.

 

For whatever reason, protection broke down yesterday.  

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

Josh had his most rushing attempts with his second best YPC last year. He was plenty athletic last year. Whatever is going on right now is a new problem for everybody. 
 

When we say “it’s been worse since Dorsey took over…” you have to toss out a year of him as OC (2022) where it wasn’t worse, and wasn’t less athletic and all 3 years as Josh’s QB coach. It seems like a reach to say that one day Dorsey woke and and said “let’s do a 180 on absolutely everything we’ve been working on for the last 4 years”.

 

It feels like the easy answer here is that our QB who has been inconsistent since we drafted him has been…inconsistent. 
 

I don’t love all of Dorsey’s play designs. I also don’t like all his play calls. But this idea that there has been drastic shift in what Josh is and is not allowed to do seems far out there. Allen has had 2 great games. A mediocre game or two, and two clunkers. 
 

The offense needs to evolve. That includes Josh. 

 

So it seems to be specifically a 1st half issue.  Mainly in terms of them being able to protect Allen properly and it takes them until halftime to figure it out.  Then in the 2nd half the O is unstoppable mostly.  Last 9 "real possessions" in 2nd half. 7 TDs, 1 missed FG, 1 TO on downs after gaining 42 yards. 0 punts.  

 

So then it becomes, why are those answers not there after the first or second drive of the first half?  What are they doing at halftime specifically that they couldn't do after a drive or two when you keep seeing the same things over and over again?

[Mikie2times]

Josh is a challenging player to try and build a championship with. Which ranks as a problem most people would love to have. The NFL is a precise game and Josh is not a precise player. He makes his hay in the chaos when design falls apart. If you force him to stay in the design it actually make him worse. If you let him play free you get almost unlimited upside but consistency issues that likely make it hard to win a championship.

 

How do you address it? He is the team. As an OC or HC, you want to build an offense that is repeatable and systematic.  Again, that's not who he is.  I have no idea what the answer is TBH.  With him here, we will always be above average. He just does so much on his own. But how do we take the next step or how do we build toward the next step? I have no clue. 

 

 

[LanderPoke]

Josh is the only thing right with the offense . This ***** team would be 2-15 without Josh

[TheBrownBear]

Josh is Josh.  He's never going to be perfect.  All in all, he's been pretty damn good this year outside of the Jets game.  Struggles the past three weeks have mostly been first half execution errors, penalties, dropped balls, etc., that sort of thing.  

[LanderPoke]

12 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Josh is Josh.  He's never going to be perfect.  All in all, he's been pretty damn good this year outside of the Jets game.  Struggles the past three weeks have mostly been first half execution errors, penalties, dropped balls, etc., that sort of thing.  

Plus no running game. Either josh has to evade three rushers and make a spectacular play every time or everything goes to hell in a hand basket. The OL blows and so do most of the receivers and the offensive coaching staff

[Marcus Aurelius]

1 hour ago, Calidiehard said:

So far between last night and today I've read:

1. Josh isn't taking what is given

2. Josh isn't reading the defense and locking into on guy

3. Josh is going through his progressions too fast

4. Josh isn't throwing down field enough

5. Josh isn't throwing to the underneath guys enough

6. Josh isn't running enough

7. Josh isn't taking enough chances

8. Josh is being too reckless throwing into coverage 

9. Josh doesn't trust (name which player you want)

10. Josh doesn't look like he cares out there

 

So which is it? Maybe it's a collective effort of recievers not getting much separation, poor play design (guys in same area along and at the same level too often), and a lack of trust with guys dropping the ball or maybe not being where they should be. There is a lot of things not working right now and none of us has a clue as to how they can fix it. We just have to suffer through the ride that is the 2023 Bills.

 

11. The problem is poor poster spelling 

[John from Riverside]

I was listening to the hashtag sports podcast after the game and they brought up something that is very possible

 

Josh might be injured

 

It would explain two things

 

Miss throws

His passes are all fastballs no touch

Reluctance to run

 

Actually, that’s three things

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Those delayed blitzes have our whole offense rattled it seems josh included…I think he’s not really sure when he can hold the ball and attack downfield and when he’s gotta dump it off quick anymore. Sometimes he diagnoses a quick blitz effectively and throws it hot…sometimes a delayed blitz turns into a jailbreak type scenario because nobody can block anybody despite it being ‘delayed’ lol

 

silver lining if we end up powering through this we’ll be a better team for it.  That is a decently big ‘if’ though at this time 

still think this is the best josh we’ve seen I kind of feel bad for him honestly…he’s not perfect by any means but the last 3 weeks have been the typical games in past years where he’s absolutely awful and this year he’s played pretty well.  the stats won’t reflect it though

Edited October 23, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[BillsFanSD]

Josh is not the problem.  The offense Josh is trying to run does, however, appear to be a problem.

[H2o]

Josh is not the problem. I think he is still adjusting to life without Daboll, regardless of what anyone else would say. Their relationship was different. Closer. I think they truly understood one another. Hopefully they get out of Josh's head and just let Josh ball. I can take whatever comes after that, win or lose. 

[Mikie2times]

25 minutes ago, LanderPoke said:

Josh is the only thing right with the offense . This ***** team would be 2-15 without Josh

 

Somebody can be two things at once.

 

Josh is one of the best QB's in football and is most the reason we are decent. How he goes about that is limiting towards offensive growth because it's not by design. 

 

How do you grow as an offense when the main player in the offense doesn't want to be a part of the natural play design. 

 

[PayDaBill$]

This is my opinion on the matter. Josh is not the problem it’s McD.

 

Josh’s issue is McD’s problem and it goes all the way back to the Daboll and McD riff. I believe   McD wanted Daboll to do what Dorsey is doing this season and Daboll pushed back. Well  McD has finally got his scheme  in place and the offense is killing Josh and neutering his game.  Josh isn’t a system game managing sit in pocket, don’t run, hand it off & check down qb. I’m pretty convinced this is why he looks so miserable and has been having trouble.  It’s just not who he is!  Josh is currently in an offense that goes against everything that made him a threat. This scheme is not a fit for his game.

Edited October 23, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[Aimee75]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

Not allowed. Its someone else fault entirely. Josh can do no wrong. 

Obviously, in these parts, it's always Josh's fault. Always. He could have a perfect game, and if the defense blows it in the end, people in here will nitpick over a bad throw or drop and blame him. 

 

I live for chaos, and I almost wish The Bills would trade him to a team that is a QB away, and he goes to that team and they win a SB. It would be the funniest thing ever, and we could go back to trying to find another franchise QB for 20+ years again. It's what this fanbase deserves.

2 hours ago, Doc said:

If Josh is the problem, we'll just get a shiny new QB at the QB store.   

They're a dime a dozen. They grow on trees. Not only will our shiny new QB lead us to the promiseland, he will make Allen look like chopped liver. Can't wait till we snag him in the draft. 

[ngbills]

12 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

Obviously, in these parts, it's always Josh's fault. Always. He could have a perfect game, and if the defense blows it in the end, people in here will nitpick over a bad throw or drop and blame him. 

 

I live for chaos, and I almost wish The Bills would trade him to a team that is a QB away, and he goes to that team and they win a SB. It would be the funniest thing ever, and we could go back to trying to find another franchise QB for 20+ years again. It's what this fanbase deserves.

Multiple things can exist - Josh can play a bad game, he can still be one of the best QB's in the league, he can be the Bills QB, the coaches can suck. 99% of people on here love JA. Some get super sensitive if you say anything wrong about him. He would be the first to admit he wants 90% of that game back.