Devils advocate...what is Josh is the problem?

[newcam2012]

12 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

This.

 

People want there to be 1 problem going on, it's easier to fix 1 issue than it is multiple. The problems aren't so black/white. Is Josh having some bad plays? Course he is, just like any other player on the field. For me it's the equivilant of when fans are watching a 'shut down corner'. When they see that CB allow a completed pass or a couple, you get 'see he's not a shut down corner'. For some reason people/fans think elite = no mistakes ever.

 

So yes, Josh has some bad plays. He misses some reads. He is not THE reason the offense is not performing.

 

Also this,

 

And really Bass missed a FG and Murrays OPI, they would have had 10 more points. The defense absolutely crapped the bed. The offense was still slow to get going and when those are the scripted plays, I think that says a lot.

What do you think the reasons are why the offense has under performed the last three games? 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

What do you think the reasons are why the offense has under performed the last three games? 

 

I separate this game out from Jacksonville and the Giants a bit. I didn't like the plan or the playcalling particularly in either of those games and while on second review the Giants gameplan wasn't as poor as first imagined I think the offensive coaching was a significant part of the failures in those games. 

 

I separate New England out because I think Dorsey had a good plan, and called good plays. 

 

Josh throws a back pick that ends a drive;

Murray makes a mistake that takes 4 off the board;

Bass misses a FG that takes 3 off the board; 

We fail to check out of a run and run Cook straight into an overload blitz that basically ends a drive;

Knox drops a pass on 4th down that takes at least 3 off the board;

 

It was basically all day long the offense made mistake after mistake after mistake in terms of execution. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

The defense is just flat out of excellent players and major problems on offense, but aside from questionable play calling and line breakdowns the offense refuses to be patient and take what’s there. The offense refuses to hit the 3-5 step drop routinely and get the ball out, when they do, they drive and score.  Whether it’s The OC, QB WR’s or line is subjective, but it sure looks like a decision making problem. 

 

 

General:

-This team has some serious problems with hot reads and routes on blitzes 

-Quick Stick route to Kincade is open every time for 4-6 yards and possible RAC

-When Allen hits his drop then throws the offense hums, when he doesn’t it’s a crapshoot

-He is incredible running right escaping, but he forces this more often then he needs to, some plays don’t need to be extended.You wear down defenses when you take what they give you and move the chains, stay on the field. It helps the defense as well. 

-Good RAC plays all game by Cook, Kincade, Knox, Murray, Shakir, Diggs when taking what is there 

-it looks like opposing Defense expects no checkdowns taken on second and long.

- two times I saw the line fail in pass pro. Many times the pressure got there a

second or more after the drop completed.

 

 

 

 

Q1

9:55 Obviously the terrible int for the first possession, just take the flat it is wide open 

3:44 happy feet roll out of clean pocket into pressure several wide open

3:35 qb hits drop then runs, no body open at top of drop, holding was much worse on Kincade than Diggs… flag erases play 

0:12 2nd7- clean pocket Shakir wide open at 4, ty Johnson at 10 with nobody near him, happy feet, scrambles left, missed wide open Diggs oob. Could’ve gotten first or made third and short. 

 

Q2

14:55 happy feet again with clean pocket for more than 3 seconds, guys open underneath but 3rdand 17, rolls right, throws uncatchable ball, Davis had separation on the corner 

10:36 this play was blown up by Cyrus whiffing on 90, rolling right could have made throw to wide open Knox working across instead of double covered Diggs miss, but asking a lot

7:36 throws at top of drop for second or third time in game, first time down field. Actually gets into rhythm in this series and gets ball out fast3 consecutive times, 

3:52 2 and 6 clean pocket, NEsent blitz, hits top of drop and hesitates Kincade flat wide open again, throws oob where only NEP Jackson gets hands on it - could have been incredible INT

2:37 2 and 9 …NE 6 man blitz. Diggs, Davis, Shakir Knox all wide open takes a killer sack, a quick touch throw to a spot for the mesh routes would have worked nicely.

2:00 3 and 16 … Diggs wide open underneath crossing around 20, might be able to RAC to get close to a first down, Gabe open to back of EZ if throw splits safeties (routine TD for Brady and Rodgers 5-10 years ago, but require touch)… bass missed kick

 

Q3

9:58 rolling right, tough throw rolling right, but Gabe was wide open coming across ez, cook ends up scoring later so no problem 

4:23 missed Diggs, who had 3 yards on double coverage, clean pocket, should be easy TD, over thrown by 5 yards 

4:19 misses Diggs again several yards to left, clean pocket wide open sitting in zone hole

3:22 Shakir pass to flat was off target too, great diving catch no chance to RAC

1:49 this was the second time I see the pass pro completely whiff even though pats rushed 4 the end was unblocked….

 

Q4

14:40 2 and 7 new England blitz 6, Kincade pops out for easy check down, while WR’s are single manned, maybe even gets a td, instead forces a jump ball to Steph for no gain 

13:47 4 and 2 Gabe Davis wide open in flat for first down, line holds for almost 5 second with clean pocket, eventually bails out of pocket and fires to dropson who gets sandwiched by two guys.

6:36 missed hardy high but got drilled …understandable 

2:50 terrible play call, great defensive call, almost throws a pick

 

Not demanding perfection but these are a lot of failures / misses for an nfl offense. 

 

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Lets see your film review.  Show your work and your analysis.  Otherwise you are talking garbage and just trying to sound like you know football when you don't.  Cover1 put out a few clips of Josh not making the throw.  They also put out some where Josh had no chance.  Nobody here cross posted those though did they.  Could it be because they (read:you) have an agenda?

See above. The only agenda here is wanting a superbowl for this franchise just once. 
 

Not happening if this kid doesn’t start playing efficient football, not as decimated as this defense is. They are leaving a lot of chain movers on the field, because it’s not as cool. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

15 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

 

When you look at all 22 he is missing open guys all over and seems to be keying in on one guy in the route the entire time.  

 

The turnovers at the end of last year amd jets game were bad.  Like he didn't see the defenders.  

 

What are chances he's locking in on one guy because he isn't trusting what he's seeing now.   

 

 

 

he has been inconsistent, some games he's on point others. I think he pressing to hard to make things happen and then refusing to run has taken his magic away.

 

 

he needs to run more, but avoid getting every single yard and then take what the defense gives.

 

 

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I separate this game out from Jacksonville and the Giants a bit. I didn't like the plan or the playcalling particularly in either of those games and while on second review the Giants gameplan wasn't as poor as first imagined I think the offensive coaching was a significant part of the failures in those games. 

 

I separate New England out because I think Dorsey had a good plan, and called good plays. 

 

Josh throws a back pick that ends a drive;

Murray makes a mistake that takes 4 off the board;

Bass misses a FG that takes 3 off the board; 

We fail to check out of a run and run Cook straight into an overload blitz that basically ends a drive;

Knox drops a pass on 4th down that takes at least 3 off the board;

 

It was basically all day long the offense made mistake after mistake after mistake in terms of execution. 

Gunner, I agree about the Bills making execution mistakes. I really think this needs to be addressed. You knowledge here will be helpful. 

 

Listening to Cosell a few weeks ago talking about the Bills offense and Miami's D preparation. He basically said the Bills offense isn't difficult to plan for. He went on to say you know what the Bills are going to do. The Bills offense is built on their players executing. I couldn't agree more with his analysis. 

 

My point here is the Bills offense and their coaches lack creativity and sustained and coherent game plan. It's overly reliant on player execution with very little room for error. 

 

This is the very reason why the offense hasn't performed well the last three games. Defenses know what the Bills are basically going to do. They really don't fool a defense. They really don't have explosive players to keep a defense honest. The  Bills' offense revolves around how good to great will Allen be. Add in defenses no longer have to account for Allen's running and their formula just gets even easier. 

 

There's no easy solution here. I'm not sure it's even fixable at this point. The oline which looked very promising is starting to leak. Gabe Davis is not a dependable WR#2. The offense severely lacks explosive, dangerous weapons. Couple that with a defensive strategy that will not allow Allen to beat you with chunk plays. 

 

The most successful part of the Bills offense to date is mostly when Allen scrambles and improvises. That's just not sustainable. IMHO, it's the offense that needs to carry this team. Lately, they have been carrying clipboards and tablets on the sidelines. This team isn't good enough to just wake up in the fourth quarter and beat teams. 

 

After the buy the Bills schedule gets extremely difficult. We will find out how good or bad they really are. I suspect we aren't going to like what we see. I don't see a lot of reason for optimism. Maybe, you can shed some light on how the Bills can turn things around. 

[Scott7975]

23 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

See above. The only agenda here is wanting a superbowl for this franchise just once. 
 

Not happening if this kid doesn’t start playing efficient football, not as decimated as this defense is. They are leaving a lot of chain movers on the field, because it’s not as cool. 

What exactly am I supposed to see above? You came all in this thread acting like you are some expert and the rest of us are just dumb. I have seen no analysis from your expert film review. No pictures, no clips, no walkthrough analysis of pictures or clips of your own. 

[RoscoeParrish]

7 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

So what do we next given that you obviously consider yourself knowledgeable about the game of football.  Clearly in your opinion Allen is not very good.  This must mean you favor parting ways with him so how would you propose we should do it?

 

 

Hey idiot, you can point out a player has been off, without wanting to send him to the moon.  Go for a walk outside. 

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Gunner, I agree about the Bills making execution mistakes. I really think this needs to be addressed. You knowledge here will be helpful. 

 

Listening to Cosell a few weeks ago talking about the Bills offense and Miami's D preparation. He basically said the Bills offense isn't difficult to plan for. He went on to say you know what the Bills are going to do. The Bills offense is built on their players executing. I couldn't agree more with his analysis. 

 

My point here is the Bills offense and their coaches lack creativity and sustained and coherent game plan. It's overly reliant on player execution with very little room for error. 

 

This is the very reason why the offense hasn't performed well the last three games. Defenses know what the Bills are basically going to do. They really don't fool a defense. They really don't have explosive players to keep a defense honest. The  Bills' offense revolves around how good to great will Allen be. Add in defenses no longer have to account for Allen's running and their formula just gets even easier. 

 

There's no easy solution here. I'm not sure it's even fixable at this point. The oline which looked very promising is starting to leak. Gabe Davis is not a dependable WR#2. The offense severely lacks explosive, dangerous weapons. Couple that with a defensive strategy that will not allow Allen to beat you with chunk plays. 

 

The most successful part of the Bills offense to date is mostly when Allen scrambles and improvises. That's just not sustainable. IMHO, it's the offense that needs to carry this team. Lately, they have been carrying clipboards and tablets on the sidelines. This team isn't good enough to just wake up in the fourth quarter and beat teams. 

 

After the buy the Bills schedule gets extremely difficult. We will find out how good or bad they really are. I suspect we aren't going to like what we see. I don't see a lot of reason for optimism. Maybe, you can shed some light on how the Bills can turn things around. 

 

I don't particularly disagree with the fact that the offense lacks a bit in creativity. It certainly less creative than what Daboll ran. I have been making that point since the middle of last season. But the execution errors on Sunday were not the sort of thing you can attribute to "little room for error" these were just basic football done badly. I can take the point as a more general one, but it does not apply to what happened on Sunday. I absolve Dorsey from almost any blame for that defeat. 

 

I don't have any easy answers for you. I wish I did. They have to find something additional to what they have. Agree a genuine speedster might help. I think that was what they hoped for in Harty, but he seems to not have the juice he once did. Unless they can find a top end wide receiver to trade for (I doubt it) then even a 1 trick pony deep threat type would be tempting to me. 

 

[Nihilarian]

Watch the All-22, it's not the coaches. 

 

Cook stunk in protection. The new LG had a bad game as did the center. Gabe Davis isn't a #2 WR.

 

Yes, Josh had a bad start in this game....it happens.

 

Poyer shouldn't need to swap to the LBer position. The Bills lost Milano, and Tre White and it showed up big time in this game.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

What exactly am I supposed to see above? You came all in this thread acting like you are some expert and the rest of us are just dumb. I have seen no analysis from your expert film review. No pictures, no clips, no walkthrough analysis of pictures or clips of your own. 

I gave you the time in the game so you can see with your own eyes. This isn’t some act it’s a bunch of fans watching a game and drawing conclusions. I’d love to hear why all those plays are really Gabe Davis’s fault. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

I have just waded through the first four pages, and I am too old and feeble to read the rest.  Perhaps the coaches just block the Two Bills Drive website from Josh's iPad during games?  Maybe he'll be happier for a while? 🤔

*
😁

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Not watching enough lol

 

2021 playoffs ring a bell

Yeah 2021 playoffs are pretty much the exhibit A on how inconsistent the play is right now.
 

The line wasn’t as good, a lot of the coaches were the same and skills players were the same or less talented and yet somehow qb play overcame all of it. 

[stlbills13]

If josh decided to check plays at the line, take off when plays break down, take more deep shots, etc, what would happen? It's not like the staff is going to turn to Kyle Allen. He needs to take over on the field and off 

[DuckyBoys]

Defensive head coach who wants to limit risk  That is the problem  No risk means boring predictable offense  Funny thing is when the rubber meets the road and they are down on the scoreboard and time is running out he then expects them to shake the reigns off and play fast and loose  We have the 2020's version of Schottenheimer running the show