ChicagoRic Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 6 weeks in, is Deonte Harty an upgrade, a downgrade, or wash? For all of the heat he took, McKenzie had, statistically speaking, the best year of his career. As per usual, I'm just starting the discussion, which is sure to piss some posters off, but there you have it. Discuss. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBillsForLife Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 The only mistake was not letting him go sooner. Harty might not be it but lil dirty certainly wasn't either. 1 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 No. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortchaz Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Last night’s game was the type of game where McKenzie would’ve muffed a punt 4 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 It's a wash imo. Kind of figured it would be that way. We really need to try to upgrade WR, year 2 of not doing so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwnyer Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, ChicagoRic said: 6 weeks in, is Deonte Harty an upgrade, a downgrade, or wash? For all of the heat he took, McKenzie had, statistically speaking, the best year of his career. As per usual, I'm just starting the discussion, which is sure to piss some posters off, but there you have it. Discuss. The OC is the downgrade. We no longer do jet sweeps, we put Diggs in motion for a wr screen and use David edwards as our motion🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️. We don’t design plays to utilize the slot receiver or TE as first read. Give me a better Oc and watch this team fly , sure we don’t have the speed of Miami but they utilize the spread to get folks open making it easy for Tua. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 They are better off without McKenzie. Solid guy, solid depth piece that can play many roles. Shouldn’t be on the field for a playoff team unless there’s major injuries. Harty should get more actual snaps not just the couple gadget plays. They need a speed deep threat that takes the top off defenses. Sub out Gabe for a handful of plays and put Harty in. Just one route, go deep. His speed in a 1 on 1 with Allen’s arm should scare defensive coordinators. I also think he’d be very valuable when plays break down and Allen’s making magic happen. I like Davis more than most, but I don’t like him playing 90% of the offensive snaps every week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 14 minutes ago, ChicagoRic said: 6 weeks in, is Deonte Harty an upgrade, a downgrade, or wash? For all of the heat he took, McKenzie had, statistically speaking, the best year of his career. As per usual, I'm just starting the discussion, which is sure to piss some posters off, but there you have it. Discuss. He’s an upgrade at returner for sure. McKenzie was always shaky back there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 McKenzie has 39 yards this year. He is not good. Playing with Allen is the only reason he is relevant at all. The Harty move was a huge bust. Doesn't mean we should have kept Isaiah. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Shakir should be the primary slot guy when it's not Kincaid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) No. The issue is that the guy we got to replace McKenzie isn't being used to his full potential. Ken Dorsey has been using Deonte Harty poorly. He is using Harty solely as a gadget/motion/swing pass guy, similarly to how McKenzie was often used here. In point of fact, Harty ought to be used as a deep threat, to stretch defenses and open up space underneath for Diggs and Knox and Kincaid to do work in the middle of the field. It is frankly baffling that we're a third of the way through the season and have only seen one deep pass from Josh Allen to Deonte Harty. It should be a regular occurrence. Harty's speed and separation ability plus Allen's arm -- when so much defensive attention is being paid elsewhere, theoretically leaving Harty in advantageous matchups -- should equal frequent big plays. Letting McKenzie go was fine. Misusing/underusing the guy that replaced him is the mistake. Edited October 16, 2023 by Logic 2 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Hell yes. We paid 10M for the replacement and then never use him. Sharty is largely ineffective as a PR, and made his first play on offense last night with the TD. 6 games in. Total waste. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Harty isn’t even playing much. I don’t know if it’s because of special teams but it better not be that. I really thought we’d see him play the majority of slot snaps this game. He got like 10 snaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, ChicagoRic said: 6 weeks in, is Deonte Harty an upgrade, a downgrade, or wash? For all of the heat he took, McKenzie had, statistically speaking, the best year of his career. As per usual, I'm just starting the discussion, which is sure to piss some posters off, but there you have it. Discuss. Getting rid of a guy who kinda sucks isn’t a bad move if you replace him with a guy who kinda sucks. It’s just nothing. Edited October 16, 2023 by FireChans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: Getting rid of a guy who kinda sucks isn’t a bad move if you replace him with a guy who kinda sucks. It’s just nothing. Harty seems to waste a bit more salary cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, Chaos said: Harty seems to waste a bit more salary cap That’s how you know there is a huge disconnect with our offensive personnel acquisitions and how they are used. It’s possible I suppose that Brandon Beane is incapable of acquiring decent players that can fill niche roles. More likely, it’s that our dope of a coordinator can’t use them. Isaiah McKenzie was almost out of the league when the Bills grabbed him, and Daboll wrung every last drop of talent out of him, and got decent production. Dorsey took over and he’s now playing on a vet minimum again. There is not a single offensive player who Dorsey has made better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 minute ago, FireChans said: That’s how you know there is a huge disconnect with our offensive personnel acquisitions and how they are used. It’s possible I suppose that Brandon Beane is incapable of acquiring decent players that can fill niche roles. More likely, it’s that our dope of a coordinator can’t use them. Isaiah McKenzie was almost out of the league when the Bills grabbed him, and Daboll wrung every last drop of talent out of him, and got decent production. Dorsey took over and he’s now playing on a vet minimum again. There is not a single offensive player who Dorsey has made better. There is a whole interesting discussion that I have not seen before, on player development. I personally don't know how much is simply talent and readiness coming into the league, and how much players can be coached up. Compare Torrence and Spencer Brown, Torrence is already good. Brown still is not good. Would be better coaching matter? I don't really know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) As much as I wanted to get rid of McKenzie it’s hard to argue that he wouldn’t make this offense better at this point. Sherfield and Harty have done nothing Edited October 16, 2023 by BananaB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 I think he was good for the vibes. Pretty much a wash though (not a wash in terms of cap hit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Chaos said: There is a whole interesting discussion that I have not seen before, on player development. I personally don't know how much is simply talent and readiness coming into the league, and how much players can be coached up. Compare Torrence and Spencer Brown, Torrence is already good. Brown still is not good. Would be better coaching matter? I don't really know. I think it's hard, because some players just suck. But, for a nice little example, let's look at the defense. Last year they had Tre looking kinda bad post-injury, lost Von, lost Hyde etc. The defense clearly wasn't elite, but were they awful? No way. The defense this year. They lose three of their best players, Tre (who was rounding into form), Milano (probably the best defender currently), Daquan Jones, and Von doesn't look ready. That's FOUR starting positions, with elite pricetags amongst most of them. Meanwhile, we have guys like AJE stepping up, Leonard Floyd taking over games, Terrell Bernard and Dorian Williams filling in. Is our defense perfect? Nope. Is our defense doing pretty good considering the circumstances? Yep. Imagine the offense losing 3 or 4 of their best players (and for sake of the argument, leave out Allen who plays the most important position). Would we be able to get a first down outside of Allen running over linebackers? Is it possible Shakir sucks, Stevensen sucks, McKenzie sucks, Harty sucks, Sherfield sucks, Kincaid sucks, Knox sucks? Yes. Do I think there's a possibility that an actual good coordinator could make them better than they are? Yes. Ray Ray McCloud is a nobody,, a fringe roster dude. Yet somehow, some other teams have been able to wring something out of him. Our OC cannot. What's even more troubling is that most great QB's can make a lot of their players look better than they are. JuJu in KC looked a lot different than he does today. We don't do that either really, which is how you know the coach is a complete dud. Edited October 16, 2023 by FireChans 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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