The 3 Kincaid catches- we have another elite weapon on o

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, jletha said:

Seems like youre cherry picking the 3-5 Bills fan that say he will be the next Kelce. The vast majority thinks he has a high ceiling and are optimistic and think he will do well

I think he has a high ceiling too. I think he will do well too if utilized property. 

 

The NFL is a different step up from Utah. Couple that with his limited college football experience. 

 

There is a huge learning curve here. I think most are minimizing or ignoring this. Another issue is the guy isn't much of a blocker. He will be a liability at times. 

 

No doubt he can be an offensive weapon. His hands are elite and route running looks very good. Allen should only make him better. 

 

I'm just not ready to proclaim him as the next Kelce or the one who gets the team over the top. 

 

Let's look at Cook as an example. Perhaps not totally applicable but nevertheless I think it has some merit. So many here talked about how great he was going to be. So excited about the draft pick. He was going to use his speed and catch the ball out of the backfield. Take it to the house if you will. We all know what happened last year. 

 

Let's wait and see what kind of impact a rookie TE with limited college football and limited blocking skills will have. Let's wait to see if his elite hands and route running will be utilized by Dorsey. 

 

There are lots of unanswered questions. Let's be optimistic but realistic too. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by newcam2012

[Airseven]

The expectations around here are a bit unreasonable for a rookie TE. I'm excited though to have a couple potentially good ones. It seems the Bills have always been a step behind the league in utilizing the position.  

[eball]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know whether analysts have used or not.   I want to know how you measure smooth, and how relevant it is to being a good receiver.   So far, the examples people have named are all Hall of Famers (except Frank Lewis), and it doesn't seem reasonable, at all, at this point in Kincaid's career to say that he has the same thing Rice, Marvin Harrison, Kelce, and James Lofton had.  As I mentioned, I think Shakir is smooth.  If I'm right about that, then smooth doesn't correlate with greatness, so why should I care that Kincaid's smooth?  

 

I've been on this and the Bills' message board for close to 20 years, and I don't recall people saying about anyone else that the reason he's good is because he's smooth.   But plenty of people are saying it about Kincaid.  

 

If the guy has good hands, runs good routes, and understands the offense, does it matter if he's smooth or whatever the opposite of smooth is (herky-jerky)?  

 

 

 

I'm really sorry, Shaw, but this feels like I'm speaking to a toddler.  There are many qualities in an elite pass catcher:  hands, speed, intelligence, route-running.  Smoothness is a component of route-running and transition to after-the-catch.  Guys who don't look like they are expending any effort and then -- BOOM -- they are wide open and you don't know what happened.  You have seen this and know this, but for some reason you are stuck on the word "smooth."

 

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Have they ever inducted a Hall of Famer after their rookie year?  I think Kincaid could be the first.  

 

Lee Evans was smooth.  I thought Robert Woods was a smooth as well. 

I don't agree about Evans.   "Smooth" suggests that the guy makes good cuts effortlessly; Evans wasn't good at making cuts. 

 

Woods is interesting.  He was smooth.  His route running and Kincaid's are similar in that sense.   I like it.   But again, I don't know that smooth made Woods effective.  

 

My point is that if you tell me a guy has good hands or bad hands, then I can tell whether he's likely to be a good receiver or not.   If you tell me that he runs routes well or runs them poorly, then I can tell whether he's likely to be good or not.   I don't know what to think you tell me he's smooth.  Yeah, Robert Woods was smooth, but is that what made him a good #2?   I don't think so. 

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, ngbills said:

He literally caught quick slants vs a LB playing off in man coverage. Any TE on the Bills roster would have looked similar or they should be cut. 

 

No TE on the Bills roster would have made those specific plays. Knox is a straight liner, he doesn't make hard cuts like that or uncover in small spaces. I have no clue why you think this?

 

No one is saying Kincaid is a guaranteed HOF but if you don't see a special skill set that's on you.

[starrymessenger]

20 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

You're right. Well it's 2 catches, can tell by who tackles him but man I think he's gonna be an immediate stud

Steeler commentators mentioned he ran the same route twice. 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

I'm really sorry, Shaw, but this feels like I'm speaking to a toddler.  There are many qualities in an elite pass catcher:  hands, speed, intelligence, route-running.  Smoothness is a component of route-running and transition to after-the-catch.  Guys who don't look like they are expending any effort and then -- BOOM -- they are wide open and you don't know what happened.  You have seen this and know this, but for some reason you are stuck on the word "smooth."

 

Maybe.   But what I'm reacting to is that many, many posters here who are excited about Kincaid say they're excited because he's smooth.  As I said, what matters are things you mentioned.  Hands, speed, intelligence, route running.   There are plenty of excellent receivers who have those things whom I wouldn't describe as smooth.  Like Deebo Samuel.  I wouldn't describe him as smooth, and it doesn't matter all.  George Kittle isn't smooth.  

 

I just don't see how being smooth is what's going to make Kincaid a success.  I think a receiver who is smooth is fun to watch; there's some kind of elegance to the efficiency of his movement.   But as I suggested, Shakir is smooth, but it isn't getting him into the starting lineup.  

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

No TE on the Bills roster would have made those specific plays. Knox is a straight liner, he doesn't make hard cuts like that or uncover in small spaces. I have no clue why you think this?

 

No one is saying Kincaid is a guaranteed HOF but if you don't see a special skill set that's on you.

You're right about this.   On those replays, he's more fluid than Davis would have been, and clearly a different animal from any tight end on the roster.  

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Who's smooth?   So far we have Jerry Rice and Marvin Harrison.   Maybe one or both of those guys the Bengals have?   I mean, smooth seems to describe the way the guy looks, but it seems to me that I don't care whether he looks smooth or not.   I care about is catches per target, his yards per catch, etc.  

 

I mean, if I think about, I might call Shakir smooth, but that doesn't mean I want a receiver room full of Shakirs.  

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10073149-dalton-kincaid-nfl-draft-2023-scouting-report-for-buffalo-bills-te.amp.html

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-nfl-draft-dalton-kincaid-scouting-report/

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2023/04/5-thoughts-and-a-grade-on-buffalo-bills-drafting-utah-tight-end-dalton-kincaid.html?outputType=amp

 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/2023-nfl-draft-profile-dalton-kincaid

https://sports.yahoo.com/why-utah-tight-end-first-045409121.html

 

yes….. many consider Kincaid to. be “smooth”.  I could link another 10 pages but you get the point. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ngbills]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

No TE on the Bills roster would have made those specific plays. Knox is a straight liner, he doesn't make hard cuts like that or uncover in small spaces. I have no clue why you think this?

 

No one is saying Kincaid is a guaranteed HOF but if you don't see a special skill set that's on you.

I could have made those plays. So yes any TE on the Bills roster could have as well. It is nothing against the guy just that these are normal plays. Just watch any of the 3 guys highlights and you will see plenty of catches that show they are capable of beating a LB for a quick slant. 

 

Dawson Knox

Quentin Morris

Jace Sternberger 

 

[HappyDays]

34 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The NFL is a different step up from Utah. Couple that with his limited college football experience. 

 

There is a huge learning curve here.

 

Not really. His experience is a bit limited but he played in a pro style offense at Utah that featured a lot of 12 and even 13 personnel. If there was a big learning curve don't you think we would have heard about it by now? By all accounts he showed up to training camp immediately slotted into a major starting position for our offense. You think McDermott would let that happen if Kincaid didn't know his role in the offense inside and out?

 

I think a lot of people need to get rid of their preconceptions about what rookie TEs normally do. For a lot of reasons Kincaid is set up to be an exception - the offense he played in at Utah, the offense and QB play he's stepping into, his natural abilities and instincts. It's fair to keep expectations for any rookie reasonably low but Kincaid has a lot of advantages that most rookies don't have.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not really. His experience is a bit limited but he played in a pro style offense at Utah that featured a lot of 12 and even 13 personnel. If there was a big learning curve don't you think we would have heard about it by now? By all accounts he showed up to training camp immediately slotted into a major starting position for our offense. You think McDermott would let that happen if Kincaid didn't know his role in the offense inside and out?

 

I think a lot of people need to get rid of their preconceptions about what rookie TEs normally do. For a lot of reasons Kincaid is set up to be an exception - the offense he played in at Utah, the offense and QB play he's stepping into, his natural abilities and instincts. It's fair to keep expectations for any rookie reasonably low but Kincaid has a lot of advantages that most rookies don't have.

I will say if Kincaid pops and takes the starting slot position from the jump, that will be so so so huge for this offense. I’m very excited about this kid.

[Royale with Cheese]

22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't agree about Evans.   "Smooth" suggests that the guy makes good cuts effortlessly; Evans wasn't good at making cuts. 

 

Woods is interesting.  He was smooth.  His route running and Kincaid's are similar in that sense.   I like it.   But again, I don't know that smooth made Woods effective.  

 

My point is that if you tell me a guy has good hands or bad hands, then I can tell whether he's likely to be a good receiver or not.   If you tell me that he runs routes well or runs them poorly, then I can tell whether he's likely to be good or not.   I don't know what to think you tell me he's smooth.  Yeah, Robert Woods was smooth, but is that what made him a good #2?   I don't think so. 

 

Evans was smooth.  Smooth doesn't just mean good cuts effortlessly.  He was a 4.3 - 40 guy and he didn't look like one...he just ran by them effortlessly like he was gliding.  Lofton was the same way but it looks more smooth because he had long legs and looked like a deer.  I wouldn't say he was a great cut guy.

 

Smooth is a huge benefit.  Being smooth disguises a route better and you're easier to lose in coverage IMO.  But yes, you need to have the complete package.

 

I was just pointing out smooth players that weren't Hall of Famers.  

 

 

35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Maybe.   But what I'm reacting to is that many, many posters here who are excited about Kincaid say they're excited because he's smooth.  As I said, what matters are things you mentioned.  Hands, speed, intelligence, route running.   There are plenty of excellent receivers who have those things whom I wouldn't describe as smooth.  Like Deebo Samuel.  I wouldn't describe him as smooth, and it doesn't matter all.  George Kittle isn't smooth.  

 

I think the excitement is you don't usually see a "smooth" tight ends.  It's not his only positive trait.  He has great hands. 

[PrimeTime101]

21 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Looks like three views of one catch, but it does look nice. 

first throw #17 drops him from low

Second throw #55 made the tackle

Third throw same people were on same tackle but #55 got him lower on second grab.

 

they all different. though the second one and third one looks like different views, they not

[HappyDays]

20 minutes ago, ngbills said:

I could have made those plays.

 

[ngbills]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Maybe I will need to bust out my highlight tape...

[Simon]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Any TE on the Bills roster would have looked similar or they should be cut. 

 

No TE on the Bills roster looks anything like Kincaid.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I think he has a high ceiling too. I think he will do well too if utilized property. 

 

The NFL is a different step up from Utah. Couple that with his limited college football experience. 

 

There is a huge learning curve here. I think most are minimizing or ignoring this. Another issue is the guy isn't much of a blocker. He will be a liability at times. 

 

No doubt he can be an offensive weapon. His hands are elite and route running looks very good. Allen should only make him better. 

 

I'm just not ready to proclaim him as the next Kelce or the one who gets the team over the top. 

 

Let's look at Cook as an example. Perhaps not totally applicable but nevertheless I think it has some merit. So many here talked about how great he was going to be. So excited about the draft pick. He was going to use his speed and catch the ball out of the backfield. Take it to the house if you will. We all know what happened last year. 

 

Let's wait and see what kind of impact a rookie TE with limited college football and limited blocking skills will have. Let's wait to see if his elite hands and route running will be utilized probably by Dorsey. 

 

There are lots of unanswered questions. Let's be optimistic but realistic too. 

 

He isn't going to be asked to block. If they play Kincaid as a single tight end in 11 I will come back and apologise to you. They will do that very little. He isn't a blocker. The Bills ain't going to use him to block. He will be our leading slot receiver as a rookie.

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I think he has a high ceiling too. I think he will do well too if utilized property. 

 

The NFL is a different step up from Utah. Couple that with his limited college football experience. 

 

There is a huge learning curve here. I think most are minimizing or ignoring this. Another issue is the guy isn't much of a blocker. He will be a liability at times. 

 

No doubt he can be an offensive weapon. His hands are elite and route running looks very good. Allen should only make him better. 

 

I'm just not ready to proclaim him as the next Kelce or the one who gets the team over the top. 

 

Let's look at Cook as an example. Perhaps not totally applicable but nevertheless I think it has some merit. So many here talked about how great he was going to be. So excited about the draft pick. He was going to use his speed and catch the ball out of the backfield. Take it to the house if you will. We all know what happened last year. 

 

Let's wait and see what kind of impact a rookie TE with limited college football and limited blocking skills will have. Let's wait to see if his elite hands and route running will be utilized probably by Dorsey. 

 

There are lots of unanswered questions. Let's be optimistic but realistic too. 

 

I share the same concern as well as durability...  Suffered a back injury (compression fracture) his final year at Utah that kept him out months.

[Einstein's Dog]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not really. His experience is a bit limited but he played in a pro style offense at Utah that featured a lot of 12 and even 13 personnel. If there was a big learning curve don't you think we would have heard about it by now? By all accounts he showed up to training camp immediately slotted into a major starting position for our offense. You think McDermott would let that happen if Kincaid didn't know his role in the offense inside and out?

 

I think a lot of people need to get rid of their preconceptions about what rookie TEs normally do. For a lot of reasons Kincaid is set up to be an exception - the offense he played in at Utah, the offense and QB play he's stepping into, his natural abilities and instincts. It's fair to keep expectations for any rookie reasonably low but Kincaid has a lot of advantages that most rookies don't have.

I've been added to the excited group.  Originally while loving the pick, I was of the "draft is for the future crowd", and we'll have to wait for a while to see the real value.  I've upgraded my time table.

 

If the offense/Dorsey does what I am hoping he will deserve a ton of credit.  There is the growing possibility that Dorsey is going to unleash DK2 on the Jets.  I would love to see it. 

 

My optimism has reached levels where I have started looking for the   

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

 

I share the same concern as well as durability...  Suffered a back injury (compression fracture) his final year at Utah that kept him out months.

Very good point that I failed to mention. 

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He isn't going to be asked to block. If they play Kincaid as a single tight end in 11 I will come back and apologise to you. They will do that very little. He isn't a blocker. The Bills ain't going to use him to block. He will be our leading slot receiver as a rookie.i a

 

 

 

I agree. Don't you think they should change his position to WR rather than TE?