Was the trade up necessary? 🤔

[appoo]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

BTW, one could easily spin that otherwise.  Playing devil's advocate, and for the purposes of discussion, ... 

 

To all the people who voted yes, ... do you hate having a reliable defense and one that doesn't shut down in the playoffs, or an OL that can't keep the heat off in the playoffs?  

 

See how easy it is.  

 

As well, as if "voting yes" even matters.  The entire board was gaga when we drafted Oliver and couldn't stop talking about he was going to singlehandedly revolutionize the defense.  How'd that work out for us in the storm of popular opinion?  

 

Same for Rousseau to a lesser extent, and everyone went absolutely nuts over Zay Jones too.  It's easy to say things now, but back then the opinions and "votes" were the same.  Again, how'd that work out for us.  

 

So how about simply waiting and seeing.  Either way, Kincaid is hardly the end-all-to-be-all selection.  

 

 

Except there was nothing available where they were drafting that could have helped with either of those things? Like even if you drafted JPJ  - probably the best defender left on the board at 27 - you're going from either Elam or Tre to JPJ? I'm not trying to be arrogant or anything, but you simply didn't have starting players at either OL or LB at that spot. The closest was Anton Harrison from Oklahoma, who's long term position might actually be IOL, and was a reach by the Jags. Odds are he wouldn't have beaten out our incumbent RT. Does Mazi Smith start at 1T? No. Would Beresee start at 3T? I believe not. 

 

Sure you can make the arguement those picks would have been better...but I guess I just disagree with them over an actual starter in Dalton Kincaid, who can play inside or outside when we go 11/12, both he and Knox are going to get a ton of reps, and it enables Diggs to play inside/out as well. 

 

Kincaid has the potential to exponentially improve the offense in games like we saw against the Bengals, who were especially so effective in their pass rush, becasue they never feared the pass game between the hashes

[gobills1212]

2 hours ago, StHustle said:

Ok well I agree with it so what must I pay better attention to? I'm just getting folks on record now cause the whole trade up thing is a very polarizing topic.

You asked a question subjectively and gave it a poll, but this is kind of a moot point. For the only person in which it matters,  the answer is yes. The player he wanted was on another teams board and he needed to do what he had to do to get the job done. That said, creating a thread 15 hrs after the fact to discuss something thats being discussed adnauseam in no less than 3 other threads is redundant.  Thus, by paying better attention to either would have given you your answer.  This is akin to making a for sale post, listing the price in the post and then the 1st question is how much. You arent the only person and this is deff a bit of me yelling at clouds but back when the BB message boards were a thing - this tyoe of post didnt exist here.

[Einstein's Dog]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Everyone knew Dallas wanted Kincaid IF he was there.
 

Surely, if we all knew what they wanted to do, they would put the word out to have the chance to match/exceed a trade offer if someone tries to jump them, no?

 

Don't forget that the order had changed.  The Giants traded up for Jax (which by the way I didn't understand).  So Dallas may not have had time to negotiate.  As for the Giants tradeup, maybe they had orchestrated a prior arrangement to keep the Bills out, and it was activated.

 

As for the OP, yes to the trade up!  This one I can understand (as apposed to last years when I didn't think it was necessary).  When they did the move up I think most people figured the Bills were now picking a TE, and most people had Kincaid as the top TE.  

[KDIGGZ]

27 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Discernment of human nature. Do you always accept at face value the public statements of public figures? Lots of commentators have concluded the Cowboys wanted Kincaid, not just Skip Bayless. So, it's a matter of judgment. No one is hooking Jerry Jones up to a lie detector. If you believe him, I think that is naive, but you are free to maintain that judgment.

You literally believe Beane. What's the difference?

[QLBillsFan]

Well he was a top 10 ranked player and drafted at 10. We gave up a 4th. It’s likely BB trades 59 unless Sanders is available. So I see Bills adding 70 and 109 for 59. So let’s see how it plays out. Just my thoughts 💭 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, KDIGGZ said:

You literally believe Beane. What's the difference?

Judgment is prudential. Beane tends to be a straight shooter -- this is what I think after listening to interviews for a number of years and comparing what he says to how he acts professionally. In this circumstance, I don't think there is warrant for suspicion in his regards. Maybe you do. The Cowboys need a TE and numerous folks think they wanted Kincaid. Looking at the body language of the Cowboys war room and the length of time they took to make the pick, I believe they did indeed want Kincaid and that Jones created a narrative to save face. Jones also has a long history. He is not an inveterate liar, but I can believe in this particular circumstance he has reason to fib and that he is in fact not telling the truth.

 

And in general, discernment is finely calibrated to the particularities of a situation, though the norms of human nature guide practical judgment.

[DJB]

3 hours ago, StHustle said:

Ok so Im like many of us Bills Mafians. I HATE the thought that we traded up unnecessarily for a pick Beane decided to make in earlier drafts. Welp here we are again, another draft, another trade up in the first. Some of Beane's previous trade ups were understandable while many others were highly questionable. FOR THIS SPECIFIC TRADE UP, do you feel Beane was completely justified? Even if you believe the Cowboys would have indeed selected Kincaid and for us to get him, trading up was necessary. If you dont feel the pick was worth the sacrifice, STILL VOTE NO. So my polling question here is, DO YOU FEEL THE TRADE UP IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE 2023 DRAFT WAS WORTH IT? Put your current opinion on the matter on the record RIGHT NOW!

Atlanta just paid a 4th 110 overall to move up from 44 to 38

 

Bills paid pick 130 to move up two spots in round 1

 

Totally worth it

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, DJB said:

Atlanta just paid a 4th 110 overall to move up from 44 to 38

 

Bills paid pick 130 to move up two spots in round 1

 

Totally worth it

 

The point differential for the Bills was 40 and they gave up 42.  The differential for Atlanta was 60 and they paid 72.

[BullBuchanan]

trading a 4th round pick to move up two spots in the draft seems like pretty poor value. I wouldn't have done it. I would have rather a 5 +6.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

trading a 4th round pick to move up two spots in the draft seems like pretty poor value. I wouldn't have done it. I would have rather a 5 +6.

 

The value was fine.  And yes a 5th and 6th would have gotten the value but the Jags probably were demanding the 4th.

[rusty shackleford]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

I can't 😄 enough at this.

 

Sent it to my cowboys friend and he blocked me 😄

My wife sent that to me first thing this morning but she didn’t even stay up last night to see the feed and get the full context.

[John from Riverside]

If there is a guy that they feel strong on, then you go when you get your guy
 

There is no doubt that Dallas was about to draft Dalton Kincaid

 

The choices were either go to the next guy on your board or give up the fourth round pick

 

By the way, I hated giving up that pic as well whenever we only had six pics, but this is an important draft for Brandon been we need immediate play makers

[BullBuchanan]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The value was fine.  And yes a 5th and 6th would have gotten the value but the Jags probably were demanding the 4th.

I'm not talking about draft chart value, I'm talking about value to our team. We need contributors and a 4th could be that. If I'm trading a 4th, it's to get another top 100 guy.

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by BullBuchanan

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's a tangent.  

 

Point being people here were all gaga about him too and his gawdy collegiate numbers.  Sometimes you have to look at how they were amassed.  That's the job of the scouts, if they fail to do so it's at their own risk.  

 

Look at how rookie TEs typically perform, even the most highly rated ones.  I simply don't see him making a significant rookie impact, and that's if they even use him and if they do whether the use him to utilize his skillset as best that they can.  Look what they did with Himes, signed him, blathered on about a receiving RB that would "open things up," and then hardly any opportunities to do that, and it had nothing at all to do with his abilities, because he's quite capable.  

 

I simply think that everyone's expectations are far too high for him.  Beane needed to knock one out of the park.  I"ve never said that Kincaid isn't or won't be good, but that I doubt he'll be a significant difference maker, and for a team weak on the OL and currently two LBs short of a full set, it was a luxury pick.  They should have gone Harrison.  

 

We'll see what happens, but if Allen doesn't have the protection again and our running game isn't any better, then Beane's going to have nowhere to hide now.  I mean how many seasons of leaning on Allen to cover-up all of his miscues in the drafts can he have?  What, he's a cat with 9 lives like that or something.  

 

Either way, all I was saying originally was that fan opinion here doesn't matter a hill of beans as to how things play out.  All we do is discuss, bicker, argue, etc. each other.  LOL  

 

But looking back over the past, my expectations for a rookie TE coming out of the PAC-12 aren't high.  

 

 

 

 

 

You are entitled to your opinion

[DCofNC]

I’m surprised he was the pick, but he looks like the best weapon left by a long shot.  If he turns into a top 5 TE, nobody will care.  If he busts, then that’s a double whammy.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's a tangent.  

 

Point being people here were all gaga about him too and his gawdy collegiate numbers.  Sometimes you have to look at how they were amassed.  That's the job of the scouts, if they fail to do so it's at their own risk.  

 

Look at how rookie TEs typically perform, even the most highly rated ones.  I simply don't see him making a significant rookie impact, and that's if they even use him and if they do whether the use him to utilize his skillset as best that they can.  Look what they did with Himes, signed him, blathered on about a receiving RB that would "open things up," and then hardly any opportunities to do that, and it had nothing at all to do with his abilities, because he's quite capable.  

 

I simply think that everyone's expectations are far too high for him.  Beane needed to knock one out of the park.  I"ve never said that Kincaid isn't or won't be good, but that I doubt he'll be a significant difference maker, and for a team weak on the OL and currently two LBs short of a full set, it was a luxury pick.  They should have gone Harrison.  

 

We'll see what happens, but if Allen doesn't have the protection again and our running game isn't any better, then Beane's going to have nowhere to hide now.  I mean how many seasons of leaning on Allen to cover-up all of his miscues in the drafts can he have?  What, he's a cat with 9 lives like that or something.  

 

Either way, all I was saying originally was that fan opinion here doesn't matter a hill of beans as to how things play out.  All we do is discuss, bicker, argue, etc. each other.  LOL  

 

But looking back over the past, my expectations for a rookie TE coming out of the PAC-12 aren't high.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

What tangent?  Zay Jones was brought up, and I pointed out something was goofy there. I think that’s a fact. 

 

I’ll take the eyes of more informed people, like Daniel Jeremiah and Chris Simms, over your opinion or mine. They have him as a top 10-15 talent. I don’t buy the “good players out of conference X can’t be had at positions Y.” We used to say in banking, because you got burned on a car loan for a blue Buick doesn’t mean you don’t lend on blue cars or Buicks. Every situation is unique. It requires knowledge and experience to know the difference. 

 

 I like his skill set. My biggest concern is Dorsey knowing how to use the pieces he’s given. I’m hoping for large strides forward for our OC. 

[Billz4ever]

4 hours ago, skibum said:

I'm going with a soft 'no', because there were still a lot of great players on the board, and this was something of a luxury pick. Don't get me wrong, I like the player a lot, but he will have to make a pretty big impact for this to be a square deal. As with all draft picks, we don't know if that will pan out. 

 

How is a receiver a luxury pick?  We most certainly needed another weapon for Josh.

[Not at the table Karlos]

5 hours ago, StHustle said:

Ok so Im like many of us Bills Mafians. I HATE the thought that we traded up unnecessarily for a pick Beane decided to make in earlier drafts. Welp here we are again, another draft, another trade up in the first. Some of Beane's previous trade ups were understandable while many others were highly questionable. FOR THIS SPECIFIC TRADE UP, do you feel Beane was completely justified? Even if you believe the Cowboys would have indeed selected Kincaid and for us to get him, trading up was necessary. If you dont feel the pick was worth the sacrifice, STILL VOTE NO. So my polling question here is, DO YOU FEEL THE TRADE UP IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE 2023 DRAFT WAS WORTH IT? Put your current opinion on the matter on the record RIGHT NOW!

If you think it was unnecessary than you don't understand what was happening. 

[benderbender]

Trading up was worth it for this Tweet alone

 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm not talking about draft chart value, I'm talking about value to our team. We need contributors and a 4th could be that. If I'm trading a 4th, it's to get another top 100 guy.

The value of a stud tight end is probably greater than that of a late fourth round pick.