D Hopkins vs Gabe Davis

[Eastport bills]

10 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Now go back and normalize Hopkins' stats by games played and see the difference between he and Davis.

 

The only stat that is worth speaking about when it comes to Gabe Davis is 51% catch ratio- almost a 50/50 chance he catches the ball.  Not to mention his limited route tree.

 

Throw all the stats you want but do you really think Gabriel Davis is better than Deandre Hopkins?

 

 

Gabe Davis is developing in his rookie contract years. He has drops in his regular season resume. He also is a big game baller. The last 3 seasons he has been great in the playoffs. He’s young and has been a great draft choice. You don’t get the nickname “Big game Gabe” for not showing up when it counts the most.

[bmur66]

We can have Gabe AND add another great reciever. It is OK to have nice things.

[Thurman#1]

24 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

We can have Gabe AND add another great reciever. It is OK to have nice things.

 

 

Yeah, yeah. I'm expecting them to draft one early. Maybe bring in a mid-level FA. It'd be great if one of them did really great.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Hopkins was a sub 60% catch guy for 5 years. 3 of those were as WR #1.

 

And yes, I'd rather have 24 yr old Davis to 31 yr old Hopkins.

 

The following people threw passes to Hopkins his first 5 years in the league

 

Schaub

Keenum

Yates

Fitz

Hoyer

Mallett

Savage

Weeden

Osweiler

6 hours ago, Starr Almighty said:

You are aware DHop missed the 1st 6 games right?

 

And by the time he returned the cardinals were in full on meltdown mode.  

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

So, this is floating around ‘out there’..

 

 

 

 

 

Yup. I'm a huge fan of ShakirBetta quoting Schefty on a statement he doesn't appear to have made. Do you suppose it's a bit of a warning that if you look at ShakirBetta's account, it says right at the top "do not take my tweets seriously"?

 

Weirdly, the NFL store doesn't yet have a Hopkins Bills jersey yet.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Airseven said:

There’s no comparison between Davis and Hopkins. Davis is a WR4 while Hopkins is still a top 8-10 WR in the league. 
 

The debate is whether upgrading from Davis to Hopkins is worth the trade compensation, salary + more cap issues, and risk of aging/slowing.

 

 

Nah. Davis is very clearly a WR2.

 

You started off very reasonable there, but then veered off into WackyTown. Then back to reasonable. But that does mean that a lot of your post made a lot of sense.

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Throw all the stats you want but do you really think Gabriel Davis is better than Deandre Hopkins?

 

 

That is not the only question that needs to be asked.

 

I honestly like OP's post. They point out some things that need to be considered in the equation.

 

Pretty crazy that D-Hop's catch percentage averaged around 55% for his first five years in the league and then averaged around 68% for his next six seasons. A lot of that has to do with the ypr coming down as D-Hop aged. Less deep targets and more short route targets.  Could see the same change for Gabe. Gabe's ypr over his first three seasons has been extraordinarily high so a lower-than-average catch percentage makes sense. 

 

D-Hop will be 31 at the start of this season! Davis will be 24. Seven years younger. That's a massive difference. We have seen the best of D-Hop. We likely have not seen the best of Gabe. 

 

D-Hop would also cost us picks and salary that could be spent elsewhere. This team has a ton of holes all over the roster on both sides of the ball. Davis currently costs us nothing. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Just stop, you are talking about a first ballot HOF player, one of the very best in the game for the last decade vs a below average #2.

 

We are talking about a 24 year old player vs a 31 year old player.

 

A player that is cheap and cost zero draft picks vs. a player that will count $10+ million against the cap and a day one or two draft pick or two. On a team that has many holes to fill.

 

Is it wise to invest in D-Hop? I don't believe we are in "win it now mode". As long as Allen is our QB our window will be cracked. Let's build a roster with the long term health of the team in mind. It's a legitimate question to consider. The question is not who has the better HOF credentials. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I prefer Jeudy… younger with more upside and better contract…. But not sure how anyone can really hate a Hopkins trade. He’s still elite. Just gotta cross fingers he doesn’t fall off a cliff and can maintain health. 

 

The bolded would be why. And where does it put the team in 2024, 2025 etc? It's definitely a swing for the fences move. Could bring the Bills a championship or put us in a terrible position for the next couple of years to follow. 

[T master]

12 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Right now, today building a team, yes I do.

 

Hopkins had 717 yards and 3 TD on 96 targets.

Davis had 836 yards and 7 TD on 93 targets.

 

I love me some Gabe but to compare the 2 is just wrong Dehop has been one of the best in the league for a while & who would you rather have with a 2 minute drive in the SB when you need a score with Josh throwing the ball to either of them ? 

 

Sure Dehop will cost more than Gabe & I think going forward Gabe will get better but at this point Dehop has been so solid i don't think you can compare the 2 it's unfair to both !

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HopkDe00.htm - Dehop 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviGa01.htm - Gabe 

 

you compared the 2 last season well Dehop only played in 9 games i know yes he was injured which sucks but if he did play in 13 games like Gabe did he would have dwarfed Gabes out put !

 

So to compare the 2 apples to apples there isn't any Dehop is miles ahead of Gabe & who knows Dehop may be able to teach Gabe somethings that would take his game to the next level . 

 

The only way i would want the Bills to get Dehop is if the contract was respectable for both he definitely wouldn't be a long term answer for the team but him & Diggs on the out side would make any D coordinator have night mares while preparing to play the Bills & if by getting him could bring a SB to Buffalo i'm all in !! 

 

Then if you figure in IF they were to trade Oliver & his contract to the Cards the money could be a wash just another thought .

[DasNootz]

13 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Last Year:

Hopkins had 79.7 yards per game yards and  0.33 TD/game and 10.6 Targets per game

Davis had 55.7 yards per game yards and 0.46 TD/game on  6.2  Targets per game

 

Davis also had one catch for 98 yards and a TD - remove that 1 catch and his production looks even more JAG-like. 49.2 yards per game.  Remove Hopkins longest reception and you get 76 yards per game.  

 

I'm not pounding the table for Hopkins, but you can't seriously believe they're equal caliber let alone Davis is better?
 

 

 

 

[Freak-O]

I hate threads where every other post is by the thread started. Stop guarding your thread. Also, a wide receiver’s numbers might depend a little bit on who is tossing him the balls. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

42 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

“Terrible position” how do you figure?

 

 

If we end up getting a receiver that can't finish the season and is broken down at the age of 32 while giving up day one or two draft picks.

[L Ron Burgundy]

14 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Right now, today building a team, yes I do.

 

Hopkins had 717 yards and 3 TD on 96 targets.

Davis had 836 yards and 7 TD on 93 targets.

This is one of those times that stats don't tell the full story.  Dhop can play at a near Randy Moss level.  Gabe cannot.  Last year was his (Gabes) year to shine.  It didn't go great.  I doubt we're getting Dhop but if we had a way to squeeze him in he's our #2 right away.  #1 red zone target.  

 

I wish Gabe was THE guy.  It doesn't look like he is.  Can maybe be a great 3 if we get a solid 2.

9 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

If we end up getting a receiver that can't finish the season and is broken down at the age of 32 while giving up day one or two draft picks.

Well if you think that's the case you definitely don't pull the trigger.   I think he's got a year or 2 left in him.  I could be wrong as hell.   That's on Beane to try and figure out.

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Gabe Davis is developing in his rookie contract years. He has drops in his regular season resume. He also is a big game baller. The last 3 seasons he has been great in the playoffs. He’s young and has been a great draft choice. You don’t get the nickname “Big game Gabe” for not showing up when it counts the most.

are you Tony romo or do other people call him that too?

[colin]

diggs, hop, davis, knox, cook and a passable NFL Oline W allen driving the bus is literally unstoppable.

 

If we had that as our O team, i'd legit expect to break NLF yardage and scoring records.  we already have insane results like no punting for several games in a row, insane 3rd down conversions, avg yards per drive, etc, and that's w allen and a rag tag line and diggs alone.  

 

if we draft another TE, i could see us having hopkins, rook TE, diggs, knox, and cook/hines lined up facing a nickel D w two deep safeties, just out of fear of the passing game, which would set up some really really light boxes vs 7 blockers.  imagine an allen lead RPO out of that?  

 

also, as guys get hurt and dinged up, it's good to have extra guys to put in.

[Eastport bills]

11 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

are you Tony romo or do other people call him that too?

Busted, I love trolling the Bills board. You gotta admit, he’s been our best receiver in the playoffs, 3 years running.

[FireChans]

15 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

He has not played a full season since 2020.

it is 2023.

 

He is 30 turning 31.

 

Old by NFL standards.

Most 30 year olds turn 31.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

If we end up getting a receiver that can't finish the season and is broken down at the age of 32 while giving up day one or two draft picks.

There’s no chance he costs more than a 3-4. That’s not going to “blow up terribly.”

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Bills Fans have this odd, terrifying feeling the team will be in “cap hell” in the future and thus want to settle for middling FAs with optimal contracts. 

They also are very worried about having older players instead of rookie deal players. They prefer more third round picks and less Matt Milanos.

 

The ideal TBD roster:

Josh Allen

52 rookie deal players

$70M in cap space (to avoid cap hell)

20 day 2 and 3 picks over the next 4 years (to draft more rookie deal players to avoid cap hell)

[Utah John]

16 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Beane missed on Crowder

Aside from all the rest of the post, which has some good points, this one stuck out.  We have no idea how well Crowder would have / might still work out.  He broke his ankle and was lost for almost all of the season.  He was good in New Jersey and could be the right fit for the Bills.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

26 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Bills Fans have this odd, terrifying feeling the team will be in “cap hell” in the future and thus want to settle for middling FAs with optimal contracts. 

Lol

 

we appear to be in cap Hell now.

 

for some reason, everyone’s okay with our OC and quarterback, just playing hero ball all the time.

 

let’s run a real offense and utilize all the skill position players. It’s worked pretty well for K.C.

 

 

[Breakout Squad]

23 hours ago, DCofNC said:

He’s already 36th in all time Rec yards and 28th all time in catches, playing with mostly scrubs at QB.  He’ll likely finish his career inside the top 10 in both categories, especially if he goes to a team w a real QB. Not to mention he’s a 5 time All-pro, the guy is a first ballot HOF player.  He’s played on trash teams, not hard to see that.

I disagree he played on trash teams and he had above average QB play. 36th in all time reception yards and 28th in catches doesn’t scream 1st ballot HOF to me. He could and maybe should end up there but his stats aren’t spectacular and he hasn’t won squat. 

[LABILLBACKER]

11 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Lol

 

we appear to be in cap Hell now.

 

for some reason, everyone’s okay with our OC and quarterback, just playing hero ball all the time.

 

let’s run a real offense and utilize all the skill position players. It’s worked pretty well for K.C.

 

 

I agree. Even with Dabs, we just didn't have an identity.  Obviously with our mediocre OL we didn't run effectively enough to draw in defenses. Nothing changed with Dorsey other than the O looking more chaotic after week 3. We saw more low percentage deep throws than ever. Maybe Josh's elbow factored in?  But this organization has had 6 full years to upgrade the OL and this "bits n pieces" approach isn't working.  

[Alphadawg7]

It’s amazing how many inaccurate and bad takes are in her about Hopkins by people who are ill-informed.
 

“He's ancient” - He is only 6 months older than Diggs who we just gave a huge extension to last year that all of you loved.  
 

“He can’t stay healthy” - He’s had one injury in his whole career that made him miss time.  2021.  Prior to that he combined to miss 2 other games only the rest of his career due to injury. 
 

“He’s washed” - He only played 9 games (due to suspension, not injury) in 2022.  He had Murray for 5 games plus 2nd and 3rd string QBs the other 4.  Yet his stats still project out to 120 receptions and almost 1400 yards over a full season.  
 

So many bad takes on Hopkins by the OP and several other posters who clearly don’t know as much about Hopkins as they think they do.
 

Meanwhile:  Davis isn’t even top 5 WR in his own division.  
 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[BillMafia716ix]

If we were going to make a deal for an upgrade at #2 spot, I feel like we would have done it already. Especially now since we signed Deonte Harty..I don’t think a deal for OBJ, Hopkins or Juedy is happening. 
 

Based on the end of the season press conferences they think Gabe Davis will have a bounce back season. After what he did to the Chiefs in the playoffs it gives you optimism that he can. Just hopes he puts it all together.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Bills Fans have this odd, terrifying feeling the team will be in “cap hell” in the future and thus want to settle for middling FAs with optimal contracts. 

Bills fans love the Rudy Ruettiger underdog player.

 

The love that forgotten player that came in and did ok by league standards - Fred Jackson, Doug Flutie, Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

If you’re talented then it’s not the right time, too many draft picks, not worth the money.

 

It’s obvious this team needs another game breaking WR that is a #1 to pair with Diggs.

 

This Harty move doesn’t even rate on a scale as a real attempt to get a starting  11 player.