D Hopkins vs Gabe Davis

[Franco_92]

10 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Nothing personal my friend, but I am looking at recent production.

 

Hopkins had 717 yards and 3 TD on 96 targets.

Davis had 836 yards and 7 TD on 93 targets.

 

Oh and Davis is much cheaper.

 

And Dhop didn't exceed 60% catch stats until year 5.

Davis is entering year 4.

 

I'll give Davis the room to improve.

And yet Davis had more Yards and TDs than Hopkins on almost the same number of targets,,,,

 

How did that happen?

Because he had the best QB in the game throwing to him on his 3 routes which take him 5 seconds to get open on? Which is why Davis did this on 33% fewer catches than Hopkins had

 

For next season only in a vacuum it is not close who would be better for this offense, the guy who can run more than 3 routes, get open quickly, and reliably toe the sideline all year long and actually make contested catches

[Von Braun]

You know, you don't need to build up Gabe Davis to tear down D Hop. I agree with you.... He hasn't been relevant or healthy in a while. BUT... don't put on your rose colored glasses and blame Gabe Davis' deficiencies on everything but Gabe Davis. Fact of the matter is he has MAJOR drop issues AND catch percentage issues. It's obvious the Bills feel the same way too. So much so that they were pulling guys off the couch last year to play WR. Going out on a limb and saying that they might know a little more than all of us on TSW.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Von Braun

[RocCityRoller]

34 minutes ago, arcane said:

Doesn't either guy effectively have one year left anyway? I don't really care about age, we aren't giving Gabe another contract the way he's been playing

Gabe is top 35 of all WR in yards/ TDs/ yard per reception and 1st downs per reception

 

You don't let those guys go easily unless you are TSW.

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I prefer Jeudy… younger with more upside and better contract…. But not sure how anyone can really hate a Hopkins trade. He’s still elite. Just gotta cross fingers he doesn’t fall off a cliff and can maintain health. 

Hopkins is falling off the cliff. You get 1/2 a season of him like Manny sanders.

 

Davis has clearly out performed Jeudy by any metric.

Edited March 15, 2023 by RocCityRoller

[LABILLBACKER]

54 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Hopkins was a sub 60% catch guy for 5 years. 3 of those were as WR #1.

 

And yes, I'd rather have 24 yr old Davis to 31 yr old Hopkins.

How'd that 50 yard drop in the Cincy game sit with you. We've seen that before and you know we'll see it again.  I could care less about age. Give me a receiver who can catch the damn ball. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[JerseyBills]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah, fans of untalented teams tend to fall in love with mediocre players that they believe to be attainable. Mediocrity is an oasis when you watch your team struggle to field remotely competitive teams for years on end. Bills fans suffered from that complex for 20 years.

 

A related but different complex is fans falling in love with mediocre players on their own team, as demonstrated by this thread.

 

You have a valid point as well.  I think Gabe is a bit more than mediocre but I get what you're saying 

 

I guess I fall in the middle of the OP and yourself 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Gabe is top 35 of all WR in yards/ TDs/ yard per reception and 1st downs per reception

 

You don't let those guys go easily unless you are TSW.

Hopkins is falling off the cliff. You get 1/2 a season of him like Manny sanders.

 

Davis has clearly out performed Jeudy by any metric.

So in your eyes we’re just fine with Davis?

 

No need to try and add anything else but a slot?

[RocCityRoller]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

So in your eyes we’re just fine with Davis?

 

No need to try and add anything else but a slot?

OL and Slot WR fixes a lot of what ails us.

 

Also do not forget Knox and RB.

Edited March 15, 2023 by RocCityRoller

[Buffalo03]

8 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

He has not played a full season since 2020.

it is 2023.

 

He is 30 turning 31.

 

Old by NFL standards.

You're trying to do a comparison of Gabe and an elite WR that missed the first 6 games. Lol. They aren't even close

[Dan in Owego]

Look D Hopkins is an impossibility  Gabe Davis is not as of now better than him, and will most likely never be. 

 

Settled who do we get to replace him as a number 2? that is the question.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

So RocCity do we extend Gabe now? 
 

Since he’s the answer at #2? 
 

Do you acknowledge at all that he has a limited skill set? 

[BillsVet]

This thread makes me recall when Otter tells Boon, during Bluto's motivational speech "forget it, he's rolling."

 

What would TBD be without movie references within crazy off-season threads?  

[RocCityRoller]

56 minutes ago, arcane said:

Davis is severely limited in the routes he runs, and the ones he's good at take forever to develop, which is part of why Allen's stats are so bad/throws to Davis are so off compared to other WRs. Hopkins is exponentially more well-rounded than Gabe, even if he hasn't stayed on the field for various reasons and is older etc. 

He had those numbers in half the games played of Gabe, on a dreadful offense with a dreadful qb who was hurt anyway

I don't even want to trade for Hopkins but this is a misleading comparison at absolute best

How do you know this is not the case with Davis?

 

Hopkins was WR#2 to Johnson for 2 years. He was sub 60% for 5 years though.... why?

I think Johnson is one of the most underrated WR of all time.

 

DHOP was still sub 50% with him. Some guys are productive but take time to excel.

 

Year 6 was when DHOP broke 60%. Houston liked him for the other metrics.

 

We should look at the other metrics with Gabe Davis too.

Edited March 15, 2023 by RocCityRoller

[billieve420]

Will see if they go the Veteran route at WR but I have my doubts. Davis started off hot last year then hurt his ankle and wasn’t the same after that. If anything I could see team drafting player versus bringing in high profile guy like Hopkins. Think Beane and Co. are still high on Davis as a player.

Edited March 15, 2023 by billieve420

[Straight Hucklebuck]

31 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah, fans of untalented teams tend to fall in love with mediocre players that they believe to be attainable. Mediocrity is an oasis when you watch your team struggle to field remotely competitive teams for years on end. Bills fans suffered from that complex for 20 years.

 

A related but different complex is fans falling in love with mediocre players on their own team, as demonstrated by this thread.

 

This is a great post and I believe it.

 

There are fans in Buffalo, the team for years, that declared war on talent.

 

That was Jauron’s entire mantra, lunch pail, try-hard players.

 

Chris Simms was saying at the end of the year, the Bengals said it by disrespecting the Bills openly. 
 

Bills lack playmaking talent, not sure why RocCity can’t accept this. 

[RocCityRoller]

4 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

So RocCity do we extend Gabe now? 
 

Since he’s the answer at #2? 
 

Do you acknowledge at all that he has a limited skill set? 

 

This is a fair question. And yes I do, while Gabe Davis is still a value.

He is not a WR #1. He is an excellent WR#2.

 

I have run the metrics on every WR with 50+ targets for the whole league.

By every metric other than catch %, Davis is a top 30 WR in the league.

It matches what I see. A lot of the 'non catches' are thrown away balls Davis was near.

 

He has limits. I agree.

But what he does well is well within WR #2 bounds, and he tickles WR1 stats on many things.

 

I would extend him now, 'cheaply' People here will be astounded by what he will garner on the FA market next year.

 

This was a Beane 'hit' IMO.

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

A lot of posters here want ancient D Hopkins signed to be WR2, and spend draft capital on this stiff to replace Gabe Davis.

D Hop was a really good WR, but he has not played more than 10 games since 2020.

He hasn't passed 720 yards since 2020. He hasn't passed 8 TD since 2018.

It is 2023.

 

Last Year:

Hopkins had 717 yards and 3 TD on 96 targets.

Davis had 836 yards and 7 TD on 93 targets.

 

Davis had +119 yards, +4 TDs  on 3 fewer targets, on a rookie deal.

Many here swear Hopkins should be signed at 10+ million a year and a draft pick though.

How does that make any sense???

 

It doesn't.

 

It has also become popular here to knock down Gabe Davis and blame him for the Bills offensive struggles.

 

Nevermind the sub-par OL play, or that the slot WR position was a mess all season.

Davis and Diggs looked better with a solid slot WR like Beasley.

 

A lot of TSW wanted Beasley out, and you got your wish.

How did that work out for you?

It didn't.

 

Beasley type slot WR are available (Berrios/ Ritchie/ draft), but don't point that out here.

Beane missed on Crowder, so Ritchie and Berrios would suck too according to TSW.

 

Ignore that the OC was new to the position or that the TE and RBs were forgotten for major stretches of the season.

Forget developing Cook, or using Hines.

Go get Ekeler and his 127 targets last year... that is the answer....

 

Run game? What is that?, we have Allen, chuck it up where a guy looks open.

That was often Davis downfield, as seen by yards per target.

The catch % reflects it, but TSW won't admit it. Much like D Hopkins in his first 5 years.

 

48/ 836/ 7 TD apparently is bad now for a WR #2.

A lot of teams and fans would love that production from a #2 WR.

That was top 35% WR production in the league for ALL WR.

 

When looking at all WR with 50+ targets Davis scored top 1/3 in a lot of categories.

But no: 52% catch rate last year = sucks.

It was a bad stat for certain, but how many of those balls were actually catchable?

 

TSW thinks Gabe Davis stinks. Then again I've recently seen TSW attack Tre White recently too.

 

So replace Davis with D Hopkins huh?

A WR that did less with more opportunities, costs more and is ancient?

Smart team building there.

 

Maybe we should chill out a bit as fans.

 

Did you know Deandre Hopkins never had a catch % higher than 60% for his first 5 seasons?!

 

Hopkins catch % was 57.1%/ 59.8%/ 57.8%/ 51.7%/ 55.2% over his first 5 seasons.

 

Gabe Davis is 56.5%/ 55.6%/ 52.6% as a #2, but he 'stinks'.

 

It took 4 seasons as WR #1 for Hopkins to exceed 60% catch %

but WR don't improve their catch % per TSW.

 

Many here think Buffalo should trade for an older version of the guy we already have, is less productive, and costs more

 

Brilliant.

where to start with this mess of a post.

Hopkins is nto the player he once was, but he's still a top 15-20 guy. While injury concerns are valid, it's not the end of the world. We have a top-notch medical staff here as well.

As for wanting Beasley out - I was definitely one of them. However, the plan never should have been to replace him with McKenzie, and once it was it should have been remedied after a couple of games of McKenzie proving that he's awful. That's like when people point out how good Tremaine was when Dodson was playing. Being better than terrible depth players shouldn't be the yardstick by which we measure.

Beane didn't "miss" on Crowder either. Crowder is a known quantity and a very good football player that got hurt in a freak injury in week 4 and never recovered. That's just bad luck. He didn't have much of a chance to do anything good or bad through 3 games and change.

I don't want a "Beasley type" slot and you shouldn't either. Short and slow guys who can only catch the ball and fall down are of minimal value in a heavily vertical offense. Give me someone bigger, faster and stronger with ideally less attitude problems any day over him. A guy like Berrios has no business anywhere near this team. We're looking to upgrade from McKenzie, not clone him.

Gabe Davis is a #4 WR on any decent team. He has a limited route tree and questionable hands. His best role is run down the field and hope he gets wide open vs 1on1 coverage. The experiment with him last year as a #2 was a failure. Over half of his production came through the first 6 games of the season last year, including one where he didn't play and the two after where he was badly hobbled. He would go on to score only 3 more touchdowns over the remaining 11 games and would not top 100 yards.  No doubt someone will pay him based on potential, but it shouldn't be us.

[Airseven]

Hopkins was very good after returning from suspension last season. Mind you, he released an absurd “don’t call it a comeback” hype video before his first game, but yes he was still very effective. 
 

The issue is what compensation he’d cost (likely a 2nd + pick swap), salary/contract issues, and the ever dangerous 30+ age wall. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Airseven

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, RocCityRoller said:

 

This is a fair question. And yes I do, while Gabe Davis is still a value.

He is not a WR #1. He is an excellent WR#2.

 

I have run the metrics on every WR with 50+ targets for the whole league.

By every metric other than catch %, Davis is a top 30 WR in the league.

It matches what I see. A lot of the 'non catches' are thrown away balls Davis was near.

 

He has limits. I agree.

But what he does well is well within WR #2 bounds, and he tickles WR1 stats on many things.

 

I would extend him now, 'cheaply' People here will be astounded by what he will garner on the FA market next year.

 

This was a Beane 'hit' IMO.

There was a reason he was a 4th Rounder though. 
 

He doesn’t have elite traits.

 

He had a huge game against Pittsburgh and a few other good games, but he went missing for numerous games this year in the 3 catch-35 yards range. 
 

He gets credit for being the hardest worker on the team, but the guy has a belly. 
 

I know Beane scolded everyone for having too high of expectations, but I was let down by his performance overall. Inconsistent and a lot of games with low output.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

what? I’m a troll because I like Hopkins???

Lol feels like it’s Opposite Day around here.  9/10 nfl fans are taking Hopkins over gabe Davis.  Not to say anyone is right or wrong for preferring gabe Davis but you certainly can’t be a troll for liking Hopkins more

Edited March 15, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[HurlyBurly51]

6 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Mind you, he released an absurd “don’t call it a comeback” hype video before his first game

Just another example in a long line of them of what a tool this guy is.  Mind you, it has nothing to do with his football prowess, but yeah, he’s a douche.

On the Hail Murray:

“Hopkins has plans of having a chain made to commemorate the play, he revealed during his Pro Bowl Verzuz on Thursday night with L.A. Rams cornerback Jalen Ramsey, and the level of disrespect is over the top.

“I’m going to get a chain made with their three names on there and a cemetery,” he said.

He basically wants to tell White, Hyde and Poyer to rest in peace.”