A really interesting new predictive test for QB and other positional success - from the Athletic

[Lothar]

Link to Athletic article

 

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The battery of tests they had patients perform then are similar to the ones the athletes take now, only they’re modified to record the differences between brains that are merely healthy and ones that work on another level.

 

Ally says the results are predictive.

 

He couldn’t give out Purdy’s exact score because it’s privileged information but said it was in the “mid 90s.” That’s about where Brees, the former Saints quarterback famous for lightning-fast decision-making, scored and where two of the top passers in the league now, the Chiefs’ Patrick Mahomes and the Bills’ Josh Allen, also landed. The Bengals’ Joe Burrow took the test while at LSU and agreed to allow S2 to disclose the information.

 

Of course he did — he scored in the 97th percentile.

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The article goes on to say that safety, cornerback and linebacker are the other positions where heightened awareness and response time are reflected in scores and correlate with success. 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Lothar

[JGMcD2]

And there is still the narrative out there that Josh Allen is a tooled up Neanderthal! 

Edited February 25, 2023 by JGMcD2

[Arkady Renko]

27 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

And there is still the narrative out there that Josh Allen is a rolled up Neanderthal! 

He had a high Wonderlic score.  Much higher than “Right” Josh.  

[dave mcbride]

Interesting piece in The Athletic. Note that if you subscribe to the NYT, you get the Athletic now; otherwise you have to pay for it or it’s paywalled. 
 

https://theathletic.com/4226466/2023/02/24/nfl-quarterbacks-s2-cognition-test/

 

It’s about the S2 cognition test. Key quote (regarding Josh Allen):

 

’He couldn’t give out Purdy’s exact score because it’s privileged information but said it was in the “mid 90s.” That’s about where Brees, the former Saints quarterback famous for lightning-fast decision-making, scored and where two of the top passers in the league now, the Chiefs’ Patrick Mahomes and the Bills’ Josh Allen, also landed. The Bengals’ Joe Burrow took the test while at LSU and agreed to allow S2 to disclose the information.  Of course he did — he scored in the 97th percentile.’

 

Also:

 

’The highest S2 score in last year’s draft class, in fact, was turned in by a cornerback, Trent McDuffie, who started 15 games for the Chiefs, including the Super Bowl.’

 

I remain convinced that the Bills really wanted McDuffie but were beaten to the punch by KC. In desperation (not a criticism!), they then moved up to get the last round-one quality CB, Elam. KC moved ahead of the Bills by trading their 50th pick to NE. McDuffie is obviously a better player at this point than Elam, but it’s early. His test results suggest he’ll be a very good player provided he stays healthy.

Edited February 25, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Interesting piece in The Athletic. Note that if you subscribe to the NYT, you get the Athletic now; otherwise you have to pay for it or it’s paywalled. 
 

https://theathletic.com/4226466/2023/02/24/nfl-quarterbacks-s2-cognition-test/

 

It’s about the S2 cognition test. Key quote (regarding Josh Allen):

 

’He couldn’t give out Purdy’s exact score because it’s privileged information but said it was in the “mid 90s.” That’s about where Brees, the former Saints quarterback famous for lightning-fast decision-making, scored and where two of the top passers in the league now, the Chiefs’ Patrick Mahomes and the Bills’ Josh Allen, also landed. The Bengals’ Joe Burrow took the test while at LSU and agreed to allow S2 to disclose the information.  Of course he did — he scored in the 97th percentile.’

 

Also:

 

’The highest S2 score in last year’s draft class, in fact, was turned in by a cornerback, Trent McDuffie, who started 15 games for the Chiefs, including the Super Bowl.’

 

I remain convinced that the Bills really wanted McDuffie but were beaten to the punch by KC. In desperation (not a criticism!), they then moved up to get the last round-one quality CB, Elam. KC moved ahead of the Bills by trading their 50th pick to NE. McDuffie is obviously a better player at this point than Elam, but it’s early. His test results suggest he’ll be a very good player provided he stays healthy.

 

Is he? He was hurt most of the year and didn't do much when he played. Elam played very well down the stretch for the Bills

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Is he? He was hurt most of the year and didn't do much when he played. Elam played very well down the stretch for the Bills

He was excellent in the postseason and started all 11 games he was healthy for. He was better, although Elam was decent himself after a rough start. Regardless, I fully believe the bills wanted mcduffie because he has the perfect set of mental and physical traits to play a relatively complex matchup zone scheme. Why do you think the chiefs traded ahead of the bills?

[Dr. Who]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

He was excellent in the postseason and started all 11 games he was healthy for. He was better, although Elam was decent himself after a rough start. Regardless, I fully believe the bills wanted mcduffie because he has the perfect set of mental and physical traits to play a relatively complex matchup zone scheme. Why do you think the chiefs traded ahead of the bills?

@GunnerBill is convinced McDuffie lacked the measurables we look for in a cb and was not the target. I don't know, but none of this lessens my irrational hatred for the Chiefs. 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

@GunnerBill is convinced McDuffie lacked the measurables we look for in a cb and was not the target. I don't know, but none of this lessens my irrational hatred for the Chiefs. 

 

I have spoken to someone since who confirmed my belief too. The Bills were not targeting Trent McDuffie.

 

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He was excellent in the postseason and started all 11 games he was healthy for. He was better, although Elam was decent himself after a rough start. Regardless, I fully believe the bills wanted mcduffie because he has the perfect set of mental and physical traits to play a relatively complex matchup zone scheme. Why do you think the chiefs traded ahead of the bills?

 

I thought he struggled mightily in the Superbowl. In contrast he had a very good AFCCG. 

 

The Chiefs best corner in the Superbowl was my guy Jaylen Watson who was one of my sleepers last draft season. He was pretty excellent as a rookie. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by GunnerBill

[dave mcbride]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have spoken to someone since who confirmed my belief too. The Bills were not targeting Trent McDuffie.

 

 

I thought he struggled mightily in the Superbowl. In contrast he had a very good AFCCG. 

 

The Chiefs best corner in the Superbowl was my guy Jaylen Watson who was one of my sleepers last draft season. He was pretty excellent as a rookie. 

Interesting (I believe you) because as I recall the draft profile of him was that he would be excellent in zone and was a good tackler. Now we also know that he’s an elite info processor, which if you add it up spells “McDermott system CB.” But perhaps there were some physical traits that threw him off.

 

As for the SB, every defensive player seemed to have a bad game — probably because they were playing on the equivalent of an ice rink, which disfavors people who have to react (defenders).

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Interesting (I believe you) because as I recall the draft profile of him was that he would be excellent in zone and was a good tackler. Now we also know that he’s an elite info processor, which if you add it up spells “McDermott system CB.” But perhaps there were some physical traits that threw him off.

 

As for the SB, every defensive player seemed to have a bad game — probably because they were playing on the equivalent of an ice rink, which disfavors people who have to react (defenders).

 

Yea the field in the Superbowl was a disgrace. 

 

On McDuffie, he was certainly one of the most pro-ready guys in that class and was obviously very good mentally but I liked him more actually in schemes - like KC's - that encourage DBs to be phsyical at the line and in schemes that do much more matchup with their DBs. As a rook he played just under 2/3s outside and just over 2/3s inside and in the AFCCG he basically played on Boyd the majority of the night. I think that is how he is ideally used. Use his short area quickness, processing skill and willingness to get hands on early in specific match up scenarios. The Bills, even in Tre's prime years, rarely match up and tend to just play their corners on a side and Taron always plays either as a box linebacker or a nickel corner. For 2022 he played outside on just 5 snaps. There were games when Spags was rotating Sneed and McDuffie constantly inside / outside. I thought McDuffie was perfect for Kansas City's defense. Was not at all shocked they valued him enough to trade up. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Mr. WEO]

poor @Lothar...

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

And there is still the narrative out there that Josh Allen is a rolled up Neanderthal! 

 

link?

[MJS]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Why do you think the chiefs traded ahead of the bills?

The Chiefs moving up doesn't mean the Bills wanted McDuffie over Elam. The Chiefs can do whatever they want. It doesn't change what the Bills are targeting.

 

More likely, the first round corners were getting slim, so both teams moved up to get them them before someone else did.

 

Elam is awesome. The Bills should be happy with him.

[JGMcD2]

35 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

link?

Lol meant tooled up -

 

I mean anyone that says he's not smart because he turns the ball over. 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Lol meant tooled up -

 

I mean anyone that says he's not smart because he turns the ball over. 

 

That's BS.  Neanderthals never turn the ball over.

[Mango]

40 minutes ago, MJS said:

The Chiefs moving up doesn't mean the Bills wanted McDuffie over Elam. The Chiefs can do whatever they want. It doesn't change what the Bills are targeting.

 

More likely, the first round corners were getting slim, so both teams moved up to get them them before someone else did.

 

Elam is awesome. The Bills should be happy with him.

Elam is fine. I’m not down on the guy.

 

But the Bills have gotten strong production out of young DB’s since well before McD. It’s hard for me to be “Elam is awesome” excited about his rookie year by comparison.

 

[BringBackFergy]

I wonder how Lamar did on the cognition test. Certainly, his demand for bigger money than Watson, Mahomes and Allen is justified. 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Is he? He was hurt most of the year and didn't do much when he played. Elam played very well down the stretch for the Bills

If we ever get rid of Frazier,  Elam will become more valuable in a man press scheme. Still would've preferred a wr last year in that spot.

[Mango]

A quick google of the S2 cognition test is that it’s a private test developed by a private company. They market themselves as being able to help HS students get recruited and college athletes to increase their draft status. 
 

They may very well be helpful. (They might not be either). But I’d be hesitant to put much water in any of their results as some sort of comparable metric.  Purdy may or may not be good. But I don’t think this company has anything to do with anything. They basically got a bunch of good QB’s and were like “look, we have a special test. Good QB’s do well on our special test.”
 

There’s likely a mix of actual results and sponsored article. 
 

Their website gives me a little pause. It’s basically full of “Give us money and we’ll make you great!” There isn’t much substance. 
 

https://www.s2cognition.com/next-gen-recruiting

 

Edit: Further review of their socials and things. It’s weird they don’t have one single google or yelp review. They’re not a whole lot different than any other “performance house”. We can fix your baseball swing, change your slap shot, etc. kind of high end athletic facility. I think they likely paid for the Athletic article. No different than brands paying for reviews on big time tech websites etc. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Mango

[somnus00]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Is he? He was hurt most of the year and didn't do much when he played. Elam played very well down the stretch for the Bills

Agree. I liked McDuffie more going into the draft, but I don't think he's better than Elam right now. He was just given more opportunity. When given the chance to play, Kaiir demonstrated the ability to show up in big moments this season.

 

I believe the '22 draft class will prove to be a good one for the Bills.

[Brand J]

Elam was a healthy scratch at one point this season. It took awhile for Cook to get back on the field after fumbling his first game. Bernard could never get on the field. Shakir struggled to make an impact despite having the most separation among rookie WRs (2.4 yards). Benford started out decent, got injured, and when he was healthy enough to return, he didn’t.

Doesn’t mean the ‘22 draft class sucks, but the Bills haven’t been too kind to their rooks.

Edited February 25, 2023 by JayBaller10

[Mango]

28 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Elam was a healthy scratch at one point this season. It took awhile for Cook to get back on the field after fumbling his first game. Bernard could never get on the field. Shakir struggled to make an impact despite having the most separation among rookie WRs (2.4 yards). Benford started out decent, got injured, and when he was healthy enough to return, he didn’t.

Doesn’t mean the ‘22 draft class sucks, but the Bills haven’t been too kind to their rooks.

Not to pile on, but Dane Jackson played well in ‘21 when he came in for Tre. I thought be was much better than Wallace. 
 

The for the first half of this year he was lights out. If I remember correctly he was allowing something like 48% completion percentage, minimal YAC. He was playing like a legit starting corner. Then somehow the wheels just fell off. It was weird. 
 

I was really high on Jackson, and now he’s just a head scratcher. 
 

The entire team just started to come apart at the seems just after the bye. He played really well in the 4 games after Hyde went down. And Von didn’t go out until Thanksgiving.

 

I just don’t get it. 
 

 

[Marcus Aurelius]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That's BS.  Neanderthals never turn the ball over.

They eat balls ...

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Not to pile on, but Dane Jackson played well in ‘21 when he came in for Tre. I thought be was much better than Wallace. 
 

The for the first half of this year he was lights out. If I remember correctly he was allowing something like 48% completion percentage, minimal YAC. He was playing like a legit starting corner. Then somehow the wheels just fell off. It was weird. 
 

I was really high on Jackson, and now he’s just a head scratcher. 
 

The entire team just started to come apart at the seems just after the bye. He played really well in the 4 games after Hyde went down. And Von didn’t go out until Thanksgiving.

 

I just don’t get it. 
 

 

As for why the entire team seemed to regress after the bye, specifically the Packers game at half, maybe it was the weight of expectations. That’s all I can come up with.

 

Earlier in the year it looked like everyone was having fun, they had a swagger, chests were poked out. I remember after the first two games one of the talking heads was saying “could the Bills go undefeated? This has the same feel of that Patriots season” and then the wheels came off. The worst teams in the league were hanging with the Bills. They no longer looked dominant, confident, or like they were having fun. In hindsight looking back, it reminded me of Aikman going into the tunnel at halftime of SB 28 against the Bills and finding it interesting that the team was hanging their heads despite being up on the scoreboard.

The weight of expectations is all I can come up with. This team needs a shrink.

 

EDIT: I would’ve loved to see how the Bills from earlier in the year would’ve fared against that playoff Bengal team. The defense still would’ve had the wrong game plan, but I think the overall mindset of the team was just in a much different place. They were hungrier. I think they would’ve showed why Vegas favored them by 6 at home. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by JayBaller10

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

As for why the entire team seemed to regress after the bye, specifically the Packers game at half, maybe it was the weight of expectations. That’s all I can come up with.

 

Earlier in the year it looked like everyone was having fun, they had a swagger, chests were poked out. I remember after the first two games one of the talking heads was saying “could the Bills go undefeated? This has the same feel of that Patriots season” and then the wheels came off. The worst teams in the league were hanging with the Bills. They no longer looked dominant, confident, or like they were having fun. In hindsight looking back, it reminded me of Aikman going into the tunnel at halftime of SB 28 against the Bills and finding it interesting that the team was hanging their heads despite being up on the scoreboard.

The weight of expectations is all I can come up with. This team needs a shrink.

Injuries piled up. Injuries send ripple effects throughout the entire team. A team can handle having one or two starters injured, but once you have 3, 4, 5, 6 etc, it gets less and less manageable. The Bills had a ton of starters out on defense. Everyone looks worse when that happens.

[Brand J]

14 minutes ago, MJS said:

Injuries piled up. Injuries send ripple effects throughout the entire team. A team can handle having one or two starters injured, but once you have 3, 4, 5, 6 etc, it gets less and less manageable. The Bills had a ton of starters out on defense. Everyone looks worse when that happens.

Injuries certainly played a role as to why they weren’t as strong as they were earlier in the year, but something was off mentally as well - and that was before the Damar Hamlin incident. They just didn’t look the same, didn’t have the same fire. They were decently healthy in terms of player availability against the Bengals (I know guys were nicked up and playing), but they didn’t look like they belonged on the same field. A week earlier they flirted with losing to a Dolphins team that started a 3rd string QB. Injuries were a factor, but in my opinion it was something greater. 

[Einstein]

10 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Interesting piece in The Athletic. Note that if you subscribe to the NYT, you get the Athletic now; otherwise you have to pay for it or it’s paywalled. 
 

https://theathletic.com/4226466/2023/02/24/nfl-quarterbacks-s2-cognition-test/

 

It’s about the S2 cognition test. Key quote (regarding Josh Allen):

 

’He couldn’t give out Purdy’s exact score because it’s privileged information but said it was in the “mid 90s.” That’s about where Brees, the former Saints quarterback famous for lightning-fast decision-making, scored and where two of the top passers in the league now, the Chiefs’ Patrick Mahomes and the Bills’ Josh Allen, also landed. The Bengals’ Joe Burrow took the test while at LSU and agreed to allow S2 to disclose the information.  Of course he did — he scored in the 97th percentile.’

 

Also:

 

’The highest S2 score in last year’s draft class, in fact, was turned in by a cornerback, Trent McDuffie, who started 15 games for the Chiefs, including the Super Bowl.’

 

I remain convinced that the Bills really wanted McDuffie but were beaten to the punch by KC. In desperation (not a criticism!), they then moved up to get the last round-one quality CB, Elam. KC moved ahead of the Bills by trading their 50th pick to NE. McDuffie is obviously a better player at this point than Elam, but it’s early. His test results suggest he’ll be a very good player provided he stays healthy.

 

McDuffie is the player the Chiefs jumped in front of us to grab. While Beane sat on his hands.

[Zerovoltz]

Couple thoughts here. 

 

1st...McDuffie.  KC has a type they like to draft at CB, similar to the Bills...longer, taller guys....so again, I can't say who they wanted (they sure looked sad about KC jumping in front for McDuffie in that war room video)  ...but KC went outside the mold because they thought highly enough of his skill set to trade up and get him.  KC...justified or not, thought they had to get in front of the Bills to do it.  

 

2nd.  Just a note on Mahomes scoring high on this test....back when he was doing visits etc...Gruden LOVED Mahomes...but also, pre draft, KC had Mahomes and Watson both in...it leaked out that Watson sucked on the whiteboard and quesitons, while Mahomes shined.  Now....clearly you don't have to be a brainiac to be a really good QB becaue pre massage Watson was pretty good...whatever his test scores and whiteboard acumen....but I think we've seen enough of both Mahomes and Allen to see that their QB intelligence shows up on gameday.

[DieHardBillsFan]

13 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Interesting piece in The Athletic. Note that if you subscribe to the NYT, you get the Athletic now; otherwise you have to pay for it or it’s paywalled. 
 

https://theathletic.com/4226466/2023/02/24/nfl-quarterbacks-s2-cognition-test/

 

It’s about the S2 cognition test. Key quote (regarding Josh Allen):

 

’He couldn’t give out Purdy’s exact score because it’s privileged information but said it was in the “mid 90s.” That’s about where Brees, the former Saints quarterback famous for lightning-fast decision-making, scored and where two of the top passers in the league now, the Chiefs’ Patrick Mahomes and the Bills’ Josh Allen, also landed. The Bengals’ Joe Burrow took the test while at LSU and agreed to allow S2 to disclose the information.  Of course he did — he scored in the 97th percentile.’

 

Also:

 

’The highest S2 score in last year’s draft class, in fact, was turned in by a cornerback, Trent McDuffie, who started 15 games for the Chiefs, including the Super Bowl.’

 

I remain convinced that the Bills really wanted McDuffie but were beaten to the punch by KC. In desperation (not a criticism!), they then moved up to get the last round-one quality CB, Elam. KC moved ahead of the Bills by trading their 50th pick to NE. McDuffie is obviously a better player at this point than Elam, but it’s early. His test results suggest he’ll be a very good player provided he stays healthy.

Completely believe we were duped by KC with McDuffie and doubled down on the desperation trade up for a avg cb in the first round...

Edited February 26, 2023 by DieHardBillsFan

[TheyCallMeAndy]

13 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Is he? He was hurt most of the year and didn't do much when he played. Elam played very well down the stretch for the Bills

Statistically it’s no comparison. McDuff started 11 games and allowed 52% completion, Elam 70%. 

 

Elam had more picks, both filled the stat line well.