UPDATED - v3.0 (FINAL) on p.13 - Gunner's 2023 Mock Draft

[GunnerBill]

Just now, DJB said:

He’s not a guy in the first round I want to see. At our 2nd round pick? Fine 

 

I understand. I don't think there is any likely possibility that I will be "happy" with at #27. But in the mock I am trying to work out what teams might do given that board situation. 

[No_Matter_What]

 

First of all, awesome job. It requires lots of knowledge about both players and teams to put together reasonable mock draft, and yours is as good as it gets - both picks and reasoning.

 

Couple of notes/questions:

 

1. You are on a record saying that guards (and to the lesser extent RTs) shouldn't be taken in the 1st round, not to mention top 10, unless they are expected to become regular all-pros. Do you think Skoronski is that good?

 

2. I've read somewhere that Keion White (unlike Anudike-Uzomah) was invited to the draft, and there are rumors that he is in fact Chiefs target. Don't you think this is the possibility? Or is he a worse fit for Chiefs in your eyes?

 

3. If it ended up this way, would you feel that the Chiefs outdrafted us (again)? Hyatt vs FA-U.

 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

And I have said elsewhere I am pretty sure the Bills in particular are not going OL round 1. I would be absolutely up for them doing so. But I don't think they will. 

 

4. I disagree with you on this one. I know there is an (quite a strong) argument that the Bills picks usually correlate with who they are meeting with, but I do thing that McD and Beane realize (more than in the past) that they need to invest more in the OL and will be more than happy to draft OL high if value matches draft position. Unlike you, I fully expect them to try to draft OL in the first two rounds if they have a chance. 

 

But even of you don't think they do it, you say that you want them to. What does it specifically mean in this scenario? Does it mean that you would prefer drafting Harrison instead of Hyatt?

[Billz4ever]

Kiper's latest has us taking Simpson in the first and Downs in the second.  I wouldn't hate that, but don't really love it either.  I don't personally see Downs falling to the end of the second round anyway.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, No_Matter_What said:

 

First of all, awesome job. It requires lots of knowledge about both players and teams to put together reasonable mock draft, and yours is as good as it gets - both picks and reasoning.

 

Couple of notes/questions:

 

1. You are on a record saying that guards (and to the lesser extent RTs) shouldn't be taken in the 1st round, not to mention top 10, unless they are expected to become regular all-pros. Do you think Skoronski is that good?

 

2. I've read somewhere that Keion White (unlike Anudike-Uzomah) was invited to the draft, and there are rumors that he is in fact Chiefs target. Don't you think this is the possibility? Or is he a worse fit for Chiefs in your eyes?

 

3. If it ended up this way, would you feel that the Chiefs outdrafted us (again)? Hyatt vs FA-U.

 

 

4. I disagree with you on this one. I know there is an (quite a strong) argument that the Bills picks usually correlate with who they are meeting with, but I do thing that McD and Beane realize (more than in the past) that they need to invest more in the OL and will be more than happy to draft OL high if value matches draft position. Unlike you, I fully expect them to try to draft OL in the first two rounds if they have a chance. 

 

But even of you don't think they do it, you say that you want them to. What does it specifically mean in this scenario? Does it mean that you would prefer drafting Harrison instead of Hyatt?

 

1. On Skoronski, my exception is guys I think can be all pro guards. I was fine with Quentin Nelson, Zack Martin and AVT in round 1. I think Skoronski has some tackle flex too, and some teams might try him at right tackle, I just don't know that I see him being successful protecting the blindside. Also NFL teams don't always agree with me haha. 

 

2. Interesting, hadn't picked up that Keion had an invite. I think that does increase the chances he is going round 1. I'm not sure I love the fit for the Chiefs particularly I think White is more of a fit in a 3-4 where he plays 5 tech in base then stands up in obvious passing situations. The Chiefs are pretty multiple, but they are more of a 4 man front. But talent wise I can see why they'd like him. 

 

3. I have Hyatt a point higher than FA-U, so by my grading it is basically a wash. 

 

4. Honestly, I don't know what I want the Bills to do if the board falls like that. I'd probably say take the BPA - which by my board is Trenton Simpson, who I couldn't find a slot for in this mock (proof again that mocking and grading are two very different exercises). But I don't love the idea of a linebacker in the first. So I think I'll pass. I have very low hopes of this draft being a transformational one for the Bills. Just don't think the guys are there. 

[Chaos]

45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I'm interested in what other moves people think the Bills might make in the event the board falls as this did and they can't trade back. Not moves people want them to make

I would take Mayer, Anudike-Uzomah, or Campbell ahead of Hyatt.  In that order, for these reasons. 

1)Mayer because I think he will help the redzone offense more than Hyatt. Redzone is the weak spot. Consider Avila for the same reason.  Hyatt just does not move the needle where we need help. His one trick matters less in the red zone
2)Anudike-Uzomah.  Von Miller is missing a lot of the season, and Felix can help fill that gap, and will likely give 5 years at a high value position. 

3)Campbell has a higher floor than Hyatt and fills what is percieved as a position of need.  

Edited April 16, 2023 by Chaos

[LEBills]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Just wait til we draft Mazi Smith

Haha you know it. McDermott is calling the defensive plays this year. He is gonna want to look good so we are probably going LB, DT, DT with our first three picks 🤢

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Chaos said:

I would take Mayer, Anudike-Uzomah, or Campbell ahead of Hyatt.  In that order, for these reasons. 

1)Mayer because I think he will help the rezone offense more than Hyatt. Redzone is the weak spot. Consider Avila for the same reason.  Hyatt just does not move the needle where we need help. His one trick matters less in the red zone
2)Anudike-Uzomah.  Von Miller is missing a lot of the season, and Felix can help fill that gap, and will likely give 5 years at a high value position. 

3)Campbell has a higher floor than Hyatt and fills what is percieved as a position of need.  

 

Yes, but the question isn't about what you want because that isn't the exercise of a mock. There is already a who do you "want" them to draft thread. The exercise of a mock is trying to put the pieces together to work out who they might want. 

 

Campbell, I can possibly see the angle. There are no substantive links to the other two that I can tell though. 

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, but the question isn't about what you want because that isn't the exercise of a mock. There is already a who do you "want" them to draft thread. The exercise of a mock is trying to put the pieces together to work out who they might want. 

 

Campbell, I can possibly see the angle. There are no substantive links to the other two that I can tell though. 

These are my guesses as to what I think they will do.  There is a pretty good chance it is none of these three or Hyatt.  And we are making a big assumption about what 25 players are off the board in front of them.  Based on the choices left after the 25 you removed, I will stick by my guesses.  I think they know the red zone is the offensive week spot, not moving between the 20;s, and I think they know they have a gap without Von Miller for a chunk of the season. Its a tough division. Winning the division is not a given this year. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Chaos

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Chaos said:

These are my guesses as to what I think they will do.  There is a pretty good chance it is none of these three or Hyatt.  And we are making a big assumption about what 25 players are off the board in front of them.  Based on the choices left after the 25 you removed, I will stick by my guesses. 

 

Yes but the idea in a mock is to try and put the pieces together.... every team pretty much has a process and when you understand that process it helps you narrow down what they might do. Everyone knew it was going to be a corner last year, the year before I correctly narrowed it down to Etienne or Rousseau, mocking is about trying to do that narrowing down. Of course a player I have going might slide to them. All the better. But I expect them to stick to their process and their habit and that means it will be a guy they have met with, and more than likely a position that they have specifically targeted. 

[LEBills]

24 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

 

2. I've read somewhere that Keion White (unlike Anudike-Uzomah) was invited to the draft, and there are rumors that he is in fact Chiefs target. Don't you think this is the possibility? Or is he a worse fit for Chiefs in your eyes?

 

This is a good catch. Another interesting part of the invites is that Addison, JSN and Flowers are invited but not Quentin Johnston

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/nfl-draft/2023-nfl-draft-breakdown-of-17-players-invited-to-draft/

 

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes but the idea in a mock is to try and put the pieces together.... every team pretty much has a process and when you understand that process it helps you narrow down what they might do. Everyone knew it was going to be a corner last year, the year before I correctly narrowed it down to Etienne or Rousseau, mocking is about trying to do that narrowing down. Of course a player I have going might slide to them. All the better. But I expect them to stick to their process and their habit and that means it will be a guy they have met with, and more than likely a position that they have specifically targeted. 

We will have to agree to disagree. I agree they are targeting a WR in round 1.  I disagree that they will settle for Hyatt, or any of the receivers left on the board.  So that means a different position.  If it must be offense, then it has to be Mayer or a lineman. I think Avila is the best lineman left based on your picks.  If it does not have to be offense, then Campbell and Anudike-Uzomah are the best choices.  This is how I have narrowed it down. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

We will have to agree to disagree. I agree they are targeting a WR in round 1.  I disagree that they will settle for Hyatt, or any of the receivers left on the board.  So that means a different position.  If it must be offense, then it has to be Mayer or a lineman. I think Avila is the best lineman left based on your picks.  If it does not have to be offense, then Campbell and Anudike-Uzomah are the best choices.  This is how I have narrowed it down. 

 

Yes, but based on what you think not what they think. And that is the point. Mocking isn't about what you think or want. It is about trying to understand the way teams think and what they want. 

 

The only name that has been thrown out there so far that I think "yea that feels like a legit alternative direction that they might go based on their history" is Mazi Smith. And to sort of prove my point about how the exercises are different... I am pretty low on Mazi Smith. He is #50 on my board. I would be utterly pissed with that as the pick. But I think that is a legit different direction that I could sensibly have gone in this mock. 

[mannc]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay here is version 2.0..... post free-agency some pieces have moved. I normally try and throw a trade or two in this one but struggled to find trades I liked enough to make happen. Anyway... flame away!!!

 

1.      Carolina Panthers – Bryce Young, Quarterback, Alabama

I don’t buy that the Panthers moved up to #1 before they had made a decision on a Quarterback. You don’t make that trade thinking you “might” like one of two guys, you make that move up when you have identified a Quarterback who can be the face of the franchise. I believe Bryce Young is the best in the class, and I suspect that is where Carolina has landed.

 

2.      Houston Texans – CJ Stroud, Quarterback, Ohio State

If Young is off the board I don’t think it is an absolute lock that the Texans go Quarterback. If someone wanted to trade up and give them a boatload of picks I think they’d listen, but ultimately I suspect they end up deciding that this is the last of their years drafting in the top 5 and so need to take a shot on Stroud as the man to execute their new Shanahan style offense.

 

3.      Arizona Cardinals – Will Anderson, EDGE, Alabama

This is also a prime trade up spot if a team wants to jump Indianapolis for a Quarterback, but from the rumours I’m hearing the Cardinals want one of Anderson or Tyree Wilson and are not willing to move back so far that both are out of reach. Anderson is the safer of the two and I expect him to be the first non-QB off the board if Arizona stays at #3.

 

4.      Indianapolis Colts – Anthony Richardson, Quarterback, Florida

In version 1.0 I had Will Levis at this spot but that was before the Colts hired Shane Steichen as their head coach. Having seen the success he had in Philadelphia coordinating a multiple offense with a dual threat Quarterback they might feel comfortable swinging for the fences on the raw potential of Anthony Richardson.

 

5.      Seattle Seahawks – Jalen Carter, Defensive Tackle, Georgia

I have never bought the “Carter sliding out of the top 10” buzz. I get the character concerns but this draft just isn’t strong enough to let a player of his talent slide. Pete Carroll has never shied away from taking on talented guys with off-field baggage and they have a huge need on their defensive interior.

 

6.      Detroit Lions – Devon Witherspoon, Corner, Illinois

The trading away of Jeff Okudah makes it even more likely that the Lions are targeting the best corner in the class at #6. From what I read who that is depends on which team you ask with Witherspoon, Gonzalez and Porter all being ranked #1 on some boards. But the rumour mill is attaching Witherspoon to the Lions most frequently so he is the pick.

 

7.      Las Vegas Raiders – Peter Skoronski, Offensive Tackle, Northwestern

In the event that the Raiders don’t go Quarterback they are in prime position to address needs on the offensive line or at corner. Knowing that they are hitching their wagon to the injury prone Jimmy Garoppolo at Quarterback I expect protection is the order of the day at #7, especially as the cornerback depth in round 2 is stronger than the offensive line depth. Skoronski could start immediately at right tackle or inside at guard.

 

8.      Atlanta Falcons – Tyree Wilson, EDGE, Texas Tech

The Falcons pass rush has been a disaster for a while now. I thought they should have addressed it in the top 10 last year when they reached for Drake London, they can’t ignore it again. Wilson is a freak and he reminds me of Marcus Davenport who the Saints traded way up to acquire when new Falcons defensive coordinator Ryan Nielsen was their defensive line coach.

 

9.      Chicago Bears – Paris Johnson Jnr, Offensive Tackle, Ohio State

The Bears could happily trade back from #1 to #9 because they have needs basically everywhere. Johnson is the best tackle in this class and plugging him in at left tackle in front of former Buckeyes teammate Justin Fields as the Quarterback heads into a critical year 3 is a major upgrade on the blindside.

 

10.   Philadelphia Eagles – Lukas Van Ness, EDGE, Iowa

The Eagles don’t have a lot of immediate needs but they do have a future need at edge. Former first round pick Derek Barnett is a free agent after this coming season, Brandon Graham is about to turn 36 and Josh Sweat is a nice player but not a true #1 rusher. Van Ness is more potential than production at this stage but he feels like a fit both in terms of physical profile and character.

 

11.   Tennessee Titans – Broderick Jones, Offensive Tackle, Georgia

The Titans are either going offensive line or wide receiver at this spot. I know they signed Andre Dillard as a free agent but he has been a career backup despite being a former first round pick of the Eagles and he can play inside at guard too. If the chance to land one of the premier tackles presents itself that is the direction I think they should go.

 

12.   Houston Texans – Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Wide Receiver, Ohio State

The current consensus is moving towards Smith-Njigba being the first receiver drafted and that is understandable. In a draft class with very few sure things he has a high floor and at the very least should be a productive player from the slot. I’m sure the Texans would love to use him as a move receiver lining up all over the formation in their new offense.

 

13.   New York Jets – Myles Murphy, EDGE, Clemson  

The Jets edge position has already seen a ton of resources during the Robert Salah era but whether it has been injuries, disappointing production, or clunky scheme fits they still haven’t nailed it. When Saleh was in San Francisco they continued to pour resources into the defensive line until they got it right and with the offensive line guys off the board that is what I could see the Jets doing.

 

14.   New England Patriots – Zay Flowers, Wide Receiver, Boston College

Part of me thinks Bill Belichick is just trolling us all but I am going to take the bait with regards to the Patriots love affair with Flowers. Allegedly they spent his top 30 visit teaching him the entire offense, he does have quick twitch acceleration which is a need, and he comes from a non-football powerhouse school in the north-east. A lot of the pieces fit.

 

15.   Green Bay Packers – Brian Branch, Safety, Alabama

Someone who is quite plugged into Green Bay told me recently that if Skoronski is still on the board he is the Packers’ guy. The bad news for them is I don’t think he will be. I do think Tight End is in play here but Dalton Kincaid isn’t a complete tight end, doesn’t block and as such doesn’t really fit their offense. When in doubt with the Packers pick a defensive back and they do have a hole at safety that Branch could fill.

 

16.   Washington Commanders – Will Levis, Quarterback, Kentucky

Maybe the Commanders really will go into a season with Sam Howell as their starter, but new ownership usually brings pressure to find a Quarterback and if Levis has slid this far I can imagine Washington feeling as though they have to take him.

 

17.   Pittsburgh Steelers – Christian Gonzalez, Cornerback, Oregon

Personally I have Gonzalez as the best corner in the class and he would be incredible value here for the Steelers. I think their priority is left tackle, but there isn’t one left at this spot and as such I think they would prioritise the premium positional need at corner over a right tackle only like Darnell Wright. Gonzalez starts opposite Patrick Peterson day 1.

 

18.   Detroit Lions – Bijan Robinson, Running Back, Texas

This is the first spot that really makes sense for me for Bijan unless the Eagles take him at #10. A running back, even one as good as him, is a first round luxury but for a team with two first round picks it could be justified especially as the Lions lost their power back Jamaal Williams to the Saints in free agency.

 

19.   Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Darnell Wright, Offensive Tackle, Tennessee

The Buccs cut their left tackle Donovan Smith earlier in the offseason and their preference seems to be to move all pro right tackle Tristan Wirfs to the blindside. That would leave a gap at right tackle and Wright could slide straight in and start in front of Baker Mayfield.

 

20.   Seattle Seahawks – O’Cyrus Torrence, Guard, Florida

Seattle hit a home run at offensive tackle last year with Charles Cross and Abraham Lucas. Adding Torrence at guard would give them one of the better lines in the NFL and he is a scheme fit for the way they want to run the ball up the middle with Kenneth Walker.

 

21.   Los Angeles Chargers – Quentin Johnston, Wide Receiver, TCU

Keenan Allen has been a stalwart for the Chargers but he turns 31 on day one of the draft and missed time hurt in 2022. Mike Williams is an almost certain cap casualty (or major re-negotiation) after the season as his 2024 cap number is $32m. This team needs to look to the future at receiver. Tom Telesco has a type at the position – he values size – so Johnston is the obvious fit.

 

22.   Baltimore Ravens – Nolan Smith, EDGE, Georgia

With OBJ in the building and Lamar increasingly looking like he could still be on the roster come draft day I think an edge rusher becomes the priority for the Ravens. 2021 first rounder Odafe Oweh flashed as a rookie in a situational role but recorded just 3 sacks last season despite 6 starts. Smith is a bit of a project technique wise but he is an impressive physical specimen.

 

23.   Minnesota Vikings – Joey Porter Jnr, Cornerback, Penn State

This is sprint to the podium time for the Vikings who probably couldn’t imagine one of the top three corners sliding this far. Patrick Peterson left in free agency, Cam Dantzler was cut and their gamble on Andrew Booth in the second round last year despite questionable medicals didn’t immediately work out as he managed just 6 games and ended up on IR. Porter starts day 1.

 

24.   Jacksonville Jaguars – Deonte Banks, Cornerback, Maryland

The Jaguars are another team glad to see the corners fall down the board a little. 2nd year player Tyson Campbell had a breakout season in 2022 but the corner spot opposite him was a weakness all year. If the offense keeps scoring then teams will be passing a lot on Jacksonville. Having two capable corners is a must.

 

25.   New York Giants – Jordan Addison, Wide Receiver, USC

The Giants are bringing back Daniel Jones and Saquan Barkley, but receiver remains a need. Addison’s best fit is in a creative offense that is going to move him around the formation and exploit mismatches. Brian Daboll and Mike Kafka are the perfect duo to exploit his skillset.

 

26.   Dallas Cowboys – Dalton Kincaid, Tight End, Utah

If Kincaid gets to #26 he will get no further. Dalton Schultz left the Cowboys in free agency and while Jake Ferguson had his moments as a rookie he is an athletically limited day 3 draft pick going into year 2. Kincaid, in contrast, is a genuine weapon in the passing game for a team committed to putting more around CeeDee Lamb and Dak Prescott.

 

27.   Buffalo Bills – Jalin Hyatt, Wide Receiver, Tennessee

I think with this board the Bills would be very open to moving down, the question is would anyone want to move up? If they don’t I’d lean towards receiver as the pick even though Hyatt is  arguably a bit of a reach. The Bills have had a lot of receivers, including Hyatt, in for top 30 visits and that is usually a strong indicator of where this regime are at in terms of positional priority.

 

28.   Cincinnati Bengals – Michael Mayer, Tight End, Notre Dame

I think defensive back is definitely in play for the Bengals here, they lost both starting safeties in free agency and didn’t bring Eli Apple back at corner. But they did draft Daxton Hill in the first round last year and the depth of the class at corner might lead them to think they can wait on that spot. They also lost Hayden Hurst in free agency so a tight end that blocks and can be a safety valve in the passing game for Joe Burrow might be too good to pass on.

 

29.   New Orleans Saints – Mazi Smith, Defensive Tackle, Michigan

The Saints were not the strongest at defensive tackle in 2022, and that is before they lost both starters in free agency to teams within their division. Mazi Smith is already proven as a space eater but he still feels like he has untapped potential as a penetrator given his physical profile. He’d be an immediate starter.

 

30.   Philadelphia Eagles – Jahmyr Gibbs, Running Back, Alabama

The Eagles lost Miles Sanders to the Panthers in free agency and while they have dependable backup options such as Kenneth Gainwell, Boston Scott and Rashaad Penny I’m not sure any of those strike fear into opposing defenses. To maximise the RPO threat of Jalen Hurts I feel they need a dynamic runner and could use their second first round pick to secure one.

 

31.   Kansas City Chiefs – Felix Anudike-Uzomah, EDGE, Kansas State

Frank Clark hadn’t lived up to his contract the past two seasons, but he contributed for Chiefs in the playoffs and his departure means they are thin at edge. They drafted Karlaftis last year and he had six sacks as a rookie but they need a more dynamic fast twitch threat and Anudike-Uzomah from just up the road at Kansas State has explosive burst and bend to hunt down Quarterbacks.

Interesting that you have Kincaid “falling” to 26.  I wonder what the Bills would do if that happened.  Would they consider him at 27? Try to jump ahead of Dallas, like they did last year for Elam?

[Simon Says]

I dont like Voorhees at 59.  If selecting OL therez I think they should go for a tackle: Wright or  Bergeron were available.

As for Rice at 27? Way too early IMO. I'm not sure whether Bills want a slot or outside receiver.

[MrEpsYtown]

Keion White was super high ranked going into the combine. Jeremiah had him above Myles Murphy. This is one of those things where those initial rankings are probably more accurate than all the BS smokescreen stuff we’ve heard the last couple of months. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

Interesting that you have Kincaid “falling” to 26.  I wonder what the Bills would do if that happened.  Would they consider him at 27? Try to jump ahead of Dallas, like they did last year for Elam?

 

Yea I said somewhere earlier I think he will go before that but tight ends are tough to slot. My thinking was the first potential tight end slot is Green Bay but he doesn't block and as we just saw with Gesicki in Miami in that scheme, you gotta block. Detroit at #18 is possible, but if they value tight ends why trade away Hock? The Seahawks are probably the other one where maybe I should have considered it more than I did. The Chargers have to go receiver I think... and then you hit a run of Mark Andrews, TJ Hockenson, Evan Engram and Darren Waller until you get to Dallas. So it becomes tricky. I think he will be gone by #26.... but I don't know where too. Might be a surprise team who just say "screw positional value or need I gotta take him."

[Chaos]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, but based on what you think not what they think. And that is the point. Mocking isn't about what you think or want. It is about trying to understand the way teams think and what they want. 

 

The only name that has been thrown out there so far that I think "yea that feels like a legit alternative direction that they might go based on their history" is Mazi Smith. And to sort of prove my point about how the exercises are different... I am pretty low on Mazi Smith. He is #50 on my board. I would be utterly pissed with that as the pick. But I think that is a legit different direction that I could sensibly have gone in this mock. 

I don't think you mind reading is any better than mine regarding this pick. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Herb Nightly said:

I dont like Voorhees at 59.  If selecting OL therez I think they should go for a tackle: Wright or  Bergeron were available.

As for Rice at 27? Way too early IMO. I'm not sure whether Bills want a slot or outside receiver.

 

Again that's version 1 from 3 months ago. Page 6 for the update. 

Just now, Chaos said:

I don't think you mind reading is any better than mine regarding this pick. 

 

Mine is consistent with the way they have operated. 

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Again that's version 1 from 3 months ago. Page 6 for the update. 

 

Mine is consistent with the way they have operated. 

Mine is consistent with the fact that every player they have met with that is a likely first round target, is already off the board in your mock.  For example. I don't think they take Brents in the first round if he is the top rated guy they met with.  I just don't think Hyatt is a first round target, simply because they met with him. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Chaos

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Keion White was super high ranked going into the combine. Jeremiah had him above Myles Murphy. This is one of those things where those initial rankings are probably more accurate than all the BS smokescreen stuff we’ve heard the last couple of months. 

 

Yea, interesting. I am probably a little biased against mocking him in the first because I don't love him as a prospect. He is #49 for me. But I mocked Mazi there who is #50. White actually reminds me a little bit of Travon Walker last year who I didn't have a 1st round grade on he went 1st overall. If he is invited to the Draft I think the chances are he is going day 1. 

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Mine is consistent with the fact that every player they have met with that is a likely first round target, is already off the board in your mock.  For example. I don't think they take Brents in the first round if he is the top rated guy they met with.  I just don't think Hyatt is a first round target, simply because they met with him. 

 

See that on Hyatt makes sense, and you may well be right there.... but you'd have to not think Mazi Smith was either and that they are going to go against the grain and pick guys they haven't met with. 

[Process]

GB what do you think about OT Harrison at 27? I would much rather upgrade at RT and start Davis than start Brown and draft Hyatt. 

 

I don't follow college football but from what I've read Hyatt is basically a Davis clone. Faster 40 time yes but same idea, limited route runner and more of a situational deep threat.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Process said:

GB what do you think about OT Harrison at 27? I would much rather upgrade at RT and start Davis than start Brown and draft Hyatt. 

 

I don't follow college football but from what I've read Hyatt is basically a Davis clone. Faster 40 time yes but same idea, limited route runner and more of a situational deep threat.

 

Yea Hyatt is a vertical only receiver really. I don't think the Bills are going OL in the first. I'd consider Harrison if it were me, but putting the pieces together of the Beane pressers, the effusive talk about Spencer Brown and the fact they have been very light on OL visitors so far that we know about I don't think it is their plan. He is in the clump of players (after Trenton Simpson) that would be in consideration by my personal board (I'd have Simpson as clear BPA but then Hyatt, Harrison, Mayer, FA-U, Sanders, Campbell and Antonio Johnson in a little cluster) but not sure it is how the Bills will go. 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea, interesting. I am probably a little biased against mocking him in the first because I don't love him as a prospect. He is #49 for me. But I mocked Mazi there who is #50. White actually reminds me a little bit of Travon Walker last year who I didn't have a 1st round grade on he went 1st overall. If he is invited to the Draft I think the chances are he is going day 1. 

Yeah I think if Keion White was some sort of Gergia or Clemson player rather than a Gerogia Tech transfer from Old Dominion, I think he would be first round lock. He’s still a bit under the radar and needs to be coached. But you can’t coach that size/speed/length combo he has. I love the Walker comp. Hutchinson clearly should have went before him, but Walker has some big upside. White could be as good. 
 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yeah I think if Keion White was some sort of Gergia or Clemson player rather than a Gerogia Tech transfer from Old Dominion, I think he would be first round lock. He’s still a bit under the radar and needs to be coached. But you can’t coach that size/speed/length combo he has. I love the Walker comp. Hutchinson clearly should have went before him, but Walker has some big upside. White could be as good. 
 

 

 

I like the idea of him as DT much more. If you drafted him to play 3T the learning curve is much shallower than if you want him to be an edge rusher. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I have visions of the 90s Bills and want Josh to finally get his version of Thurman Thomas. 

 

 

When teams get 7 years of control over rookies again then maybe something like that brand of football will return.    So I guess root for an apocalypse.   Until then RB's are pretty close to worthless in todays game.

[No_Matter_What]

I can't find the White to Chiefs rumor but this is the list of attendees... Q. Johnston was originally invited but not anymore 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He has good hands. But he doesn't separate. That is why he is of limited use in the passing game. I don't think he will end up better than Knox. I don't think he will go 1st round. He will go somewhere in the 2nd I think. 

 

 

 

I'm not certain he needs to separate at an elite level. At his height, length and frame it is going to be hard for just about any defender to get in position to break up a completion. Obviously, anyone drafting Washington needs to do a deep dive into why he was targeted so infrequently in the Georgia offense. Was it the system? Is he still being developed? Did he start his career as o-lineman at Georgia? What position did he play in high school? Etc. Knox was seldom targeted in college and the Bills have been able to develop him.

 

I could really see #27 coming down to either Hyatt or Washington. The thing about selecting Washington or perhaps Mayer or Kincaid should either still be on the board is that it would also represent a commitment to 12 personel and the Tight End being a threat in the offense. Is that something the Bills are really going to incorporate is the question that needs to be asked and answered.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

I can't find the White to Chiefs rumor but this is the list of attendees... Q. Johnston was originally invited but not anymore 

 

I don't think Johnston was ever invited as I have read it. People expected him to be but he wasn't. Hadn't seen the full list though, thanks. I'm wondering now about White because he is a similar scheme fit as the big end in Philly's 4-3.... is #10 in play for him? Because he is the odd one out there in the sense I think we have all known for some time the rest of those guys are locks. Would make sense if the league thinks he is in play for a pick as early as top 10....

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I have visions of the 90s Bills and want Josh to finally get his version of Thurman Thomas. 

 

It's so hard to wrap my head around using a 2 on Cook last year and then using a 1 on a RB the following draft that is going to be on the field for 90% of the snaps. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

2. Interesting, hadn't picked up that Keion had an invite. I think that does increase the chances he is going round 1. I'm not sure I love the fit for the Chiefs particularly I think White is more of a fit in a 3-4 where he plays 5 tech in base then stands up in obvious passing situations. The Chiefs are pretty multiple, but they are more of a 4 man front. But talent wise I can see why they'd like him.

 

https://www.si.com/college/georgiatech/football/georgia-techs-keion-white-will-attend-the-2023-nfl-draft

[No_Matter_What]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Johnston was ever invited as I have read it. People expected him to be but he wasn't. Hadn't seen the full list though, thanks. I'm wondering now about White because he is a similar scheme fit as the big end in Philly's 4-3.... is #10 in play for him? Because he is the odd one out there in the sense I think we have all known for some time the rest of those guys are locks. Would make sense if the league thinks he is in play for a pick as early as top 10....

Yep, I am just googling it, I've read somewhere that NFL "withholds" Johston's draft invititation and somehow I misunderstood that word, I thought that it meant that invitation was taken back but apparently it means something else

[Dr. Who]

25 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yeah I think if Keion White was some sort of Gergia or Clemson player rather than a Gerogia Tech transfer from Old Dominion, I think he would be first round lock. He’s still a bit under the radar and needs to be coached. But you can’t coach that size/speed/length combo he has. I love the Walker comp. Hutchinson clearly should have went before him, but Walker has some big upside. White could be as good. 
 

 

Maybe we should be thinking about this fella?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

Maybe we should be thinking about this fella?

Would not mind him at 27 based on those RAS and would really fit if we could swing a Hopkins trade where we part ways with Oliver.

[NeverOutNick]

1 minute ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Would not mind him at 27 based on those RAS and would really fit if we could swing a Hopkins trade where we part ways with Oliver.

Shoot that would be one of the few ways I’d be ok with taking a DT first round. We take White and then trade Oliver and a 5th to AZ for Hopkins and they eat half his contract this year. It’s fun to dream about a scenario where we get Hopkins and Diggs on the same team with Josh throwing them the ball 

[MrEpsYtown]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Maybe we should be thinking about this fella?

Maybe. He’s what AJ Epenesa and Basham were supposed to be before they lost weight…a big end who can flex inside on passing downs. He’s athletic as he was originally recruited and played his first year as a tight end. Long arms, big hands, the usual stuff. But the negatives are that he is 24 years old and there is still some rawness to his game. Imo He is definitely in play in that late teens spots….great fit for all those teams as he can play 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE, and 4-3 DT. 

 

18) Detroit Lions
19) Tampa Bay Buccaneers
20) Seattle Seahawks
21) Los Angeles Chargers
22) Baltimore Ravens
23) Minnesota Vikings
24) Jacksonville Jaguars
25) New York Giants
26) Dallas Cowboys

 

That’s the gauntlet for us as most of those teams have similar needs. 
 

To add, I think he could go as high as 10, and then you have the Packers in the mid teens and White is the type of player they usually love. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

22 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

I can't find the White to Chiefs rumor but this is the list of attendees... Q. Johnston was originally invited but not anymore 

 

Something tells me Will Levis should decline. 

[Process]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Hyatt is a vertical only receiver really. I don't think the Bills are going OL in the first. I'd consider Harrison if it were me, but putting the pieces together of the Beane pressers, the effusive talk about Spencer Brown and the fact they have been very light on OL visitors so far that we know about I don't think it is their plan. He is in the clump of players (after Trenton Simpson) that would be in consideration by my personal board (I'd have Simpson as clear BPA but then Hyatt, Harrison, Mayer, FA-U, Sanders, Campbell and Antonio Johnson in a little cluster) but not sure it is how the Bills will go. 

I agree, I don't see the Bills going OT in round 1. Nothing they have said or done would suggest it, but it's the route I'd like to see them take. 

 

If the draft played out the way you mocked it, I would hope they would trade up for Addison, or trade down and take the best WR OL MLB available. Hyatt at 27 would be disappointing to me. Don't see how a situational player in Rd 1 gets us over the hump. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Process

[Special K]

4 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Thanks for doing these Bill, you are top dog level with this stuff. If I'm the Bills I could literally flip a coin over Hyatt or Mayer. Both would help and add new dimensions.

 

Throw Darnell Washington in there as well....I really think he would help in both the run game and the passing game. He would be my second choice if Darnell Wright is already off the board(although it would be really tough to pass on Mayer if he is still available).

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

Throw Darnell Washington in there as well....I really think he would help in both the run game and the passing game. He would be my second choice if Darnell Wright is already off the board(although it would be really tough to pass on Mayer if he is still available).

Mayer may be the best traditional TE out there. Kincaid is a better receiving threat. Washington is a monster blocker.

[DJB]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I understand. I don't think there is any likely possibility that I will be "happy" with at #27. But in the mock I am trying to work out what teams might do given that board situation. 

Of course , understandable. 
 

You did great