NFL Week #15 - Fish at Buffalo - Post Game Thread

[BillsVet]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Seeing the Chiefs scrap by against a 1 win Texans team...is that a harbinger of things to come in the playoffs?

 

Cope harder cheesy.   

 

[teef]

6 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Cope harder cheesy.   

 

it's a good question.  you seem nervous that the bills scraped by the phins, especially since we may have to play kc or the chiefs.  as mentioned, it took the chiefs OT to beat a one win team.  is that a harbinger of things to come for them? 

[BruceVilanch]

11 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Cope harder cheesy.   

 

It's a legit question, if you hold Buffalo to that standard why not the Chiefs? 

[Royale with Cheese]

18 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Cope harder cheesy.   

 

 

Is this really your response?

 

Straight up and don't evade the question with a 300 word answer like you usually do or ask me a question while not answering mine.

 

If the Chiefs played the Bills like the played the Texans...would they have beaten the Bills?

Edited December 19, 2022 by Royale with Cheese

[Luka]

We looked average. Josh is the catalyst. He hides a lot of shortcomings we have along the offensive line and makes up for a ton of bad defense. Sometimes I feel like the only time we get aggressive on defense is if McDermott is stepping in. Otherwise we just stay in Cover 2 and Fraizer just stands there, scowling. 

 

Elam looked great. Aside from Tre whiffing on Tyreek, we held one of the more potent pass offenses to very little effectiveness. If we could've caught some of those passes glancing off defender's hands, it would have been a classic Turn-Da-Ball-Ovah game. The combo of Tre and Elam bodes well for us heading into the postseason and it will only improve week after week.

 

Overall, it was a great win. See you next year, McDaniels.

[Royale with Cheese]

14 minutes ago, teef said:

it's a good question.  you seem nervous that the bills scraped by the phins, especially since we may have to play kc or the chiefs.  as mentioned, it took the chiefs OT to beat a one win team.  is that a harbinger of things to come for them? 

 

The Bills defense got lit up Saturday no doubt.  Run defense first half was embarrassing.  

 

However, look at the Chiefs.  After beating down SF....

- Struggled against the Malik Willis lead Titans.

- Struggled against the Jags

- Hard fought game against the Chargers

- Struggled against the Rams without Donald, Kupp and Stafford....also starting a 3rd string QB.

- Lost to the Bengals

- Struggled against the Broncos

- Struggled against the Texans

[muppy]

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The Bills defense got lit up Saturday no doubt.  Run defense first half was embarrassing.  

 

However, look at the Chiefs.  After beating down SF....

- Struggled against the Malik Willis lead Titans.

- Struggled against the Jags

- Hard fought game against the Chargers

- Struggled against the Rams without Donald, Kupp and Stafford....also starting a 3rd string QB.

- Lost to the Bengals

- Struggled against the Broncos

- Struggled against the Texans

if people want to be down on the bills play right now...fine, but let's at least look at everything on equal footing.  kc isn't without its warts.  no team is.  this is december, and every game has a new feel with teams clawing for wins.  it's a different feel from the rest of the season, and it should be.  i don't care if they win every remaining game by a point.  doesn't matter to me.  just win. 

 

the bills didn't really turn it on until the very last game of the season, and into the playoffs.  we have no idea as to what's going to happen over the next few weeks, but i don't see having a tight game with miami as some indicator that the bills are in trouble in the playoffs.  maybe it works that way, but then use that same measuring stick for every team.

 

blowing off that answer is a typical response when someone says something they can't back up.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

if people want to be down on the bills play right now...fine, but let's at least look at everything on equal footing.  kc isn't without its warts.  no team is.  this is december, and every game has a new feel with teams clawing for wins.  it's a different feel from the rest of the season, and it should be.  i don't care if they win every remaining game by a point.  doesn't matter to me.  just win. 

 

the bills didn't really turn it on until the very last game of the season, and into the playoffs.  we have no idea as to what's going to happen over the next few weeks, but i don't see having a tight game with miami as some indicator that the bills are in trouble in the playoffs.  maybe it works that way, but then use that same measuring stick for every team.

 

blowing off that answer is a typical response when someone says something they can't back up.

 

I used to think if we start winning, the complaining would stop but it's actually increased.

 

Probably wasn't good for some of this fan bases psyche to start off as hot as we did....it's like they expect 30 point wins every week now.

 

[SCBills]

13 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

McDaniel is a mediocre/bad coach imo.  I don’t get where the hype is coming from.  They get talked about like they have an average roster and he is getting a lot out of his players but their team is absolutely stacked and very much in win now mode with the tyreek trade. They also added two great offensive linemen (when healthy) armstead and Connor Williams and win percentage wise they’re hovering at about previous dolphins team levels 

 

Lots of head scratching playcalls on his part specifically in short yardage situations.  He’s got that defense that’s good on paper playing quite poorly too.  I don’t think he’s any better than Flores overall but his team is certainly more fun to watch because of tyreek/waddle.  

I like their coach .. I think he’s legit. 
 

They are loaded though.  Probably the most talented team in the AFC outside QB. 
 

They probably are hovering around 3-4 losses if Tua doesn’t miss games early in the season.  
 

@Chargers, @Niners, @Bills is just an insane stretch of games… and it highlighted how important an elite QB truly is.  0-2 against teams with elite QB’s and while Miami is a Top 3 non-QB talent team.. SF is #1, and it showed.  

[teef]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I used to think if we start winning, the complaining would stop but it's actually increased.

 

Probably wasn't good for some of this fan bases psyche to start off as hot as we did....it's like they expect 30 point wins every week now.

 

i'm sure it's a combination of insecurity due to how many times this team is let down, but i don't get the fact that being 11-3 and likely winning the east isn't enough as of now.  it's all this team could do as of now.  try to win out and get the one seed.  after that, it's a new season all over again.  

 

i think some of it is people who really don't like mcd.  they're going to look for any wrong possible, and will be far harder evaluating this team vs others.  know anyone like that here?

[BruceVilanch]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I like their coach .. I think he’s legit.

I like him for the most part, that halftime interview reminded me of someone who was all hopped up on adderall. What I wouldn't like if I was a phins fan (gross) was him abbandoning the run on 3rd down and around the goal line. I would be losing my sh** if I was a fan. Mostert was gashing us all game and then you decide to go to the pass during crucial situations. I think he will be a good-very good coach for awhile, just needs to quit overthinking things.

[BillsVet]

37 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Is this really your response?

 

Straight up and don't evade the question with a 300 word answer like you usually do or ask me a question while not answering mine.

 

If the Chiefs played the Bills like the played the Texans...would they have beaten the Bills?

 

You see the big picture when it supports your fanhood...in this case the team that's beaten Buffalo these last 2 years having a clunker.   

 

When the Bills win a SB I'll give them the benefit of the doubt after a performance like KC had versus Houston.

 

KC has been to the SB and won it.  The Bills, especially on the road, have struggled the last 3 playoffs.    

 

Some of you in your fanhood don't get that trust in coaching and players is earned.  McBeane haven't got there...yet. 

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

I like him for the most part, that halftime interview reminded me of someone who was all hopped up on adderall. What I wouldn't like if I was a phins fan (gross) was him abbandoning the run on 3rd down and around the goal line. I would be losing my sh** if I was a fan. Mostert was gashing us all game and then you decide to go to the pass during crucial situations. I think he will be a good-very good coach for awhile, just needs to quit overthinking things.

 

Agreed on the run game stuff.  Made zero sense why they abandoned it... we were on skates all night trying to defend it.  

 

I'm more impressed at how well prepared they were for the cold.  The way he prepped them set it up for an embarrassing evening, and they looked completely comfortable in the cold.. best Tua's ever played in the cold, that's for sure.  He had them ready to go.  They looked a little rattled when the snow rolled in, but the energy is the stadium looked insane on tv once we tied it up.  They felt it for sure. 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

You see the big picture when it supports your fanhood...in this case the team that's beaten Buffalo these last 2 years having a clunker.   

 

When the Bills win a SB I'll give them the benefit of the doubt after a performance like KC had versus Houston.

 

KC has been to the SB and won it.  The Bills, especially on the road, have struggled the last 3 playoffs.    

 

Some of you in your fanhood don't get that trust in coaching and players is earned.  McBeane haven't got there...yet. 

 

Ah the old "well they've won a Super Bowl, they're allowed to play like *****."  That's how I defeat that argument!

 

You still didn't answer my very simple question.  So either you're evading it or you can't follow simple directions.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

44 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I like their coach .. I think he’s legit. 
 

They are loaded though.  Probably the most talented team in the AFC outside QB. 
 

They probably are hovering around 3-4 losses if Tua doesn’t miss games early in the season.  
 

@Chargers, @Niners, @Bills is just an insane stretch of games… and it highlighted how important an elite QB truly is.  0-2 against teams with elite QB’s and while Miami is a Top 3 non-QB talent team.. SF is #1, and it showed.  

I’m interested in the jets dolphins rematch…I don’t think tua wouldve performed much better than bridgewater in the games he missed.  He didn’t look good against cincy before the injury.  they probably beat Minnesota, I’m not sure about the jets. The jets have made pretty much every offense look bad.  
 

McDaniel certainly installed an effective offensive system that plays to tuas strengths and I give him full credit for that but that defense has been extremely disappointing.  If we weren’t down bates and morse we would’ve easily dropped 40+ points 

 

I’ve also seen some questionable decisions on his part costing his team points quite often.  Felt like he was just spitefully trying to get tua a passing td on those 3rd and short calls in the bills game lol 

 

maybe people don’t hold the defense against McDaniel because he’s an offense guy but I don’t look at it that way.

 

total package, he’s mediocre at best in my opinion.  He’s got great skill position players and a mediocre qb playing well,  but on the flip side he has a talented defense playing poorly  

Edited December 19, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

12 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

He’s a way better coach the Flores. He actually builds his offense around players. He doesn’t force his players to fit a mold. Hes gonna be a good coach for a while

I’m not objecting to the value he’s adding to the offense at all.  What about the defense though? Lol offense is only half the team.  They’ve got a lot of talent on the defensive side and they are playing extremely poorly. If we weren’t missing a bunch of offensive linemen in both matchups we would’ve torched them both times. 
 

flores was useless on the offensive side but he had that defense playing very well and McDaniel is the opposite.  Maybe they’re more fun to watch with McDaniel at the helm but the results are pretty similar so far despite McDaniel having a lot more talent on both sides of the ball

Edited December 19, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Ah the old "well they've won a Super Bowl, they're allowed to play like *****."  That's how I defeat that argument!

 

You still didn't answer my very simple question.  So either you're evading it or you can't follow simple directions.  

 

Nah dude...you didn't like the answer so you've decided to throw a temper tantrum.

 

Keep pounding that sand.

[teef]

8 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Nah dude...you didn't like the answer so you've decided to throw a temper tantrum.

 

Keep pounding that sand.

You made a foolish comment because you didn’t think it through, and instead of owning up to it, you made the homer call.   Typical. 

[Royale with Cheese]

32 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Nah dude...you didn't like the answer so you've decided to throw a temper tantrum.

 

Keep pounding that sand.

The question was:

Would the Chiefs beat the Bills the way they played the Texans?

 

You didn’t answer my question.  Its a yes or no question.

[jahnyc]

3 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

This is just a heavy dose of quibbling.  Going 11-3 and winning the division is nice...the standard for 2022 has always been to get the #1 seed heading into the playoffs.  Just saying we're in a good place now while putting the head in the proverbial sand isn't a view I share because...

 

The idea last off-season was to improve the running game to alleviate the reliance on Josh.  But it's now clear these last 4 games they need Josh running to keep the offense going.  That was on display against a lower ranked MIA defense.   

 

Josh is running the ball almost 10 times each of these past 4 games.  That's on McBeane....they are responsible for not giving him the protection and skill players to allow him to win from the pocket.  

 

After the season and whatever success we do or don't have in the playoffs, we can assess the team's play this season and last season's offseason.  It may be premature, but I do agree with a number of your points.  McBeane spent a lot of money on the defense in the offseason, and while Jones has been a great addition, losing Miller hurts and calls into question the overall approach of not allocating enough free agent dollars to the offense (to give Allen more protection and better skill players).

 

The free agent additions on offense have not exactly worked out (Saffold, Crowder and the o-line back-ups), and the draft did not produce instant help (although Cook seems to be doing a bit better each week).  It definitely does not reflect well on management that we had to bring back Beasley and Brown.  We are entirely dependent on Allen for our success on offense, and this does need to change going forward.

 

 

[Chandler#81]

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, teef said:

You made a foolish comment because you didn’t think it through, and instead of owning up to it, you made the homer call.   Typical. 

 

Next we just need 1972 to tell us the Chiefs took care of business and the Texans are much better than their record.

Then of course, how bad we played and how lucky we got vs the Dolphins.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, teef said:

You made a foolish comment because you didn’t think it through, and instead of owning up to it, you made the homer call.   Typical. 

 

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

The question was:

Would the Chiefs beat the Bills the way they played the Texans?

 

You didn’t answer my question.  Its a yes or no question.

 

I am beginning to think Teef and Royale Cheesy are just Siamese twins with their own computers in mom's basement.  Has the meatloaf come down yet?    

[teef]

6 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

I am beginning to think Teef and Royale Cheesy are just Siamese twins with their own computers in mom's basement.  Has the meatloaf come down yet?    

oh good for you!  say something stupid, come back with most average insult ever.  does it bother you that i've accomplished more in my short life than you ever will?  take a seat boomer.  the old, angry man act is stale.

Edited December 19, 2022 by teef

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

I am beginning to think Teef and Royale Cheesy are just Siamese twins with their own computers in mom's basement.  Has the meatloaf come down yet?    

 

Would the Chiefs beat the Bills if they played like they did against the Texans?

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, jahnyc said:

 

After the season and whatever success we do or don't have in the playoffs, we can assess the team's play this season and last season's offseason.  It may be premature, but I do agree with a number of your points.  McBeane spent a lot of money on the defense in the offseason, and while Jones has been a great addition, losing Miller hurts and calls into question the overall approach of not allocating enough free agent dollars to the offense (to give Allen more protection and better skill players).

 

The free agent additions on offense have not exactly worked out (Saffold, Crowder and the o-line back-ups), and the draft did not produce instant help (although Cook seems to be doing a bit better each week).  It definitely does not reflect well on management that we had to bring back Beasley and Brown.  We are entirely dependent on Allen for our success on offense, and this does need to change going forward.

 

That's too late because this was the go-for broke season...Josh in his prime, they signed Miller, and their cap space is gonna be a challenge in 2023 to make the kinds of moves you know need to happen.  Not their fault Miller went down, but that OL might be worse than it was last year.  

 

When multiple players do not work out that's an indication something is amiss above field level.  It's one thing if you're first round DE or OT aren't immediate impact starters, but they took a RB and he's only getting 22% of the snaps.  Bigger issue is, as others have noted here, their UFA offensive signings over the years have been mostly duds.  

 

Hopefully the off-season doesn't begin for Buffalo until February 13, 2023. 

[teef]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Next we just need 1972 to tell us the Chiefs took care of business and the Texans are much better than their record.

Then of course, how bad we played and how lucky we got vs the Dolphins.

some fans are always going to look for the negative.  remember when mckissic decided to go back to washington?  billsvet couldn't wait to let us know that something was "amuck" at obd!   obviously there much have been such team turmoil that mckissic just wouldn't want to sign here.  it was a complete stretch, and you know what happened shortly after?  von miller signed.  nothing amuck...at all.  

[BillsVet]

10 minutes ago, teef said:

oh good for you!  say something stupid, come back with most average insult ever.  does it bother you that i've accomplished more in my short life than you ever will?  take a seat boomer.  the old, angry man act is stale.

 

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Would the Chiefs beat the Bills if they played like they did against the Texans?

 

Posted within 3 minutes of each other.  I rest my case. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

Posted within 3 minutes of each other.  I rest my case. 

 

Would the Chiefs beat the Bills if they played like they did against the Texans?

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

Agreed on the run game stuff.  Made zero sense why they abandoned it... we were on skates all night trying to defend it. 

 

We were on our heels against the run to my eye, because we'd made up our mind to limit the pass

 

I think one might consider that the Bills D made adjustments, and the Fish thought they could have more success passing against those adjustments.  And, they kind of did, right? to the tune of 13 unanswered points in the 3Q

 

But the difference in run and pass wasn't as extreme as you might think.

First half, Fish were 126 yds on 14 rush attempts but 8 of 16 on pass attempts for 91 net yards passing

When you take out Mostert's 67 yd attempt, 59 yds.

Second half,  63 yds on 11  rush attempts, even more effective (except we didn't let them break a big run), but 9 of 14 for 126 yds net yards passing.

 

It's not like they "abandoned" the run.  They had like 47% run in the first half, and 44% in the 2nd half. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Beck Water

[teef]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

Posted within 3 minutes of each other.  I rest my case. 

yeah...you look foolish, and it's bothering you!

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

That's too late because this was the go-for broke season...Josh in his prime, they signed Miller, and their cap space is gonna be a challenge in 2023 to make the kinds of moves you know need to happen.  Not their fault Miller went down, but that OL might be worse than it was last year.  

 

When multiple players do not work out that's an indication something is amiss above field level.  It's one thing if you're first round DE or OT aren't immediate impact starters, but they took a RB and he's only getting 22% of the snaps.  Bigger issue is, as others have noted here, their UFA offensive signings over the years have been mostly duds.  

 

Hopefully the off-season doesn't begin for Buffalo until February 13, 2023. 

Just out of curiosity, which players have not worked out specifically

[Fleezoid]

On 12/18/2022 at 3:24 AM, Einstein said:

You’ve heard of “balls of steel”… how about “balls of ice”!

 

Ice Balls should be Allen’s new nickname.

 

 

 

I like it....   Josh "Ice Balls" Allen. Has a mafia ring to it. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

 

DANG!  Will you look at that release off the line by Quintin Morris.  I kind of want to see more of that guy!

 

Here's a "Baldy Breakdown of the entire GWD.

 

Excellent play, but a point to ponder: the DPI against McKenzie was totally legit IMO and to Baldy (which likely means more). 

But, there was an equally legit DPI in the EZ against the Giants that was NOT called and clearly lost the game for them.  It's one of these "was it there in time/wasn't it?" plays - Diggs eventually gets open against Xavian Howard on the R side of the field.  But, I think Josh has to throw it before it develops enough to be sure.

 

Anyway, we got the DPI and it worked, so....

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

DANG!  Will you look at that release off the line by Quintin Morris.  I kind of want to see more of that guy!

 

Here's a "Baldy Breakdown of the entire GWD.

 

Excellent play, but a point to ponder: the DPI against McKenzie was totally legit IMO and to Baldy (which likely means more). 

But, there was an equally legit DPI in the EZ against the Giants that was NOT called and clearly lost the game for them.  It's one of these "was it there in time/wasn't it?" plays - Diggs eventually gets open against Xavian Howard on the R side of the field.  But, I think Josh has to throw it before it develops enough to be sure.

 

Anyway, we got the DPI and it worked, so....

 

And Baldy on our defense.  This was a preview of the Mia game so it features the Jets

 

[johnk]

 

Fearlessness (JA17 2pt. conversion)

 

 

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

Chris Simms unbuttoned on the Mia at Buffalo game

 

Still thinks the Bills "aren't dominant on defense" and just depend on Josh Allen Magic to win. 

 

 

Agree? 

Disagree?

56 minutes ago, johnk said:

 

Fearlessness (JA17 2pt. conversion)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't get it.  That ain't fearlessness in them pics that's foolishness.

 

Now put a goal line and an endzone, then it's fearlessness

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

DANG!  Will you look at that release off the line by Quintin Morris.  I kind of want to see more of that guy!

 

I was watching Q Morris college highlights a few months ago, and the guy was a ridiculous pass-catcher.  Great hands. Really hope they start using him some more. 

[Warcodered]