Success Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 I hate to belabor this one - but it was genuinely concerning. We can set aside the decision to go for it for now, which I disagreed with. But it wasn't THAT crazy, given the talent on our offense. The sequence there from 2nd down on was as unimaginative as anything I've seen. It was almost like we'd call it in a pick-up game. Everybody go out, and try to get open! Am I missing anything there? Was there anything set up on any of those 3 downs that was more than Allen dropping back and surveying the field? Great teams always seem to have some play in their back pocket - a "gotta have" play, when you have short yardage & a chance to put the game away. Do we not have that? 3 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg S Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Just now, Success said: I hate to belabor this one - but it was genuinely concerning. We can set aside the decision to go for it for now, which I disagreed with. But it wasn't THAT crazy, given the talent on our offense. The sequence there from 2nd down on was as unimaginative as anything I've seen. It was almost like we'd call it in a pick-up game. Everybody go out, and try to get open! Am I missing anything there? Was there anything set up on any of those 3 downs that was more than Allen dropping back and surveying the field? Great teams always seem to have some play in their back pocket - a "gotta have" play, when you have short yardage & a chance to put the game away. Do we not have that? No because we don't have a good OL. The Bills are one of the worst teams in the league in short yardage situations. I would have kicked the FG as well. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 You didn’t like the idea of sending every single receiving option into the endzone when you only need two yards? Yeah, me neither. Dorsey turned 4th and 2 into 4th and Goal. 3 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Success said: I hate to belabor this one - but it was genuinely concerning. We can set aside the decision to go for it for now, which I disagreed with. But it wasn't THAT crazy, given the talent on our offense. The sequence there from 2nd down on was as unimaginative as anything I've seen. It was almost like we'd call it in a pick-up game. Everybody go out, and try to get open! Am I missing anything there? Was there anything set up on any of those 3 downs that was more than Allen dropping back and surveying the field? Great teams always seem to have some play in their back pocket - a "gotta have" play, when you have short yardage & a chance to put the game away. Do we not have that? That sequence was absolutely inexcusable. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Just now, Einstein said: You didn’t like the idea of sending every single receiving option into the endzone when you only need two yards? Yeah, me neither. Dorsey turned 4th and 2 into 4th and Goal. Duke was wide open for a quick 2 yards in the flat to the left right away. Josh could have also scrambled to his left, probably for a TD, just before he ran to his right... But why couldn't we run the ball for the 1st down on 2nd and 2, or 3rd and 2? 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 The series that confirmed to me that Dorsey ain't it. Sorry, but a proper OC would never call something like that with two yards to go. Power sweep with Cook or even Josh gets it. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, Success said: I hate to belabor this one - but it was genuinely concerning. We can set aside the decision to go for it for now, which I disagreed with. But it wasn't THAT crazy, given the talent on our offense. The sequence there from 2nd down on was as unimaginative as anything I've seen. It was almost like we'd call it in a pick-up game. Everybody go out, and try to get open! Am I missing anything there? Was there anything set up on any of those 3 downs that was more than Allen dropping back and surveying the field? Great teams always seem to have some play in their back pocket - a "gotta have" play, when you have short yardage & a chance to put the game away. Do we not have that? The third down play to Lil Dirty was there if he just flattens the route instead of drifting - which is why Josh double clutched it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocoboy Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, Success said: The sequence there from 2nd down on was as unimaginative as anything I've seen. It was almost like we'd call it in a pick-up game. Everybody go out, and try to get open! Am I missing anything there? Was there anything set up on any of those 3 downs that was more than Allen dropping back and surveying the field? I mean, 2nd down was a screen pass where the OL kinda bumped into each other screwing up the timing, which doesn't really match the bolded. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Motorin' said: Duke was wide open for a quick 2 yards in the flat to the left right away. Duke had a defender in front of him. Probably a 50/50 chance if he makes the defender miss. Actually more like 70/30, I think he gets it. Edited November 14, 2022 by Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 This is what pisses me off. McKenzie is in on the play and just watches Peterson return it. He made absolutely zero attempt to try and tackle him. Inexcusable. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, Einstein said: You didn’t like the idea of sending every single receiving option into the endzone when you only need two yards? Yeah, me neither. Dorsey turned 4th and 2 into 4th and Goal. If Allen doubled back, he might have scored...he had 3 OL standing there and nobody out that way on the defense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Why isn’t when we run routes inside the 20 everyone streaks for the endzone? It’s ok to have a checkdown and let the backs earn their money 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: The third down play to Lil Dirty was there if he just flattens the route instead of drifting - which is why Josh double clutched it. He is NOT a precision route runner which is what is needed from your slot receiver. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, HoofHearted said: This is what pisses me off. McKenzie is in on the play and just watches Peterson return it. He made absolutely zero attempt to try and tackle him. Inexcusable. Think we all realize at this point Isiah isn’t in Cole Beasleys area code but he’s the best we have right now 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, Roundybout said: The series that confirmed to me that Dorsey ain't it. Sorry, but a proper OC would never call something like that with two yards to go. Power sweep with Cook or even Josh gets it. And a proper HC would have chosen to go up by 13 points instead of letting the OC have the chance to f*ck it up. 7 1 5 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Process said: Dorsey is a major problem. Offense has zero creativity. Zero situational awareness. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th down calls there were atrocious. People blaming McDermott on the decision to go for it. It was absolutely the right call. Go up three scores. Get two yards for ****s sake. They were atrocious because they didn't work. The play designs were fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: The third down play to Lil Dirty was there if he just flattens the route instead of drifting - which is why Josh double clutched it. Well McKenzie sucks. But we knew that a year ago. And Beane did nothing in the off-season to address it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: This is what pisses me off. McKenzie is in on the play and just watches Peterson return it. He made absolutely zero attempt to try and tackle him. Inexcusable. I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Gugny said: And a proper HC would have chosen to go up by 13 points instead of letting the OC have the chance to f*ck it up. Almost every coach would go for it there these days due to the analytics supporting it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: The third down play to Lil Dirty was there if he just flattens the route instead of drifting - which is why Josh double clutched it. It was there regardless. Allen threw it late. He should be throwing it right now: 6 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Big Turk said: He is NOT a precision route runner which is what is needed from your slot receiver. This required no precision as far as route running - just run to the green grass. He has zero field awareness. 3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said: Think we all realize at this point Isiah isn’t in Cole Beasleys area code but he’s the best we have right now I'd much rather see Shakir in the role at this point. 3 minutes ago, Process said: Well McKenzie sucks. But we knew that a year ago. And Beane did nothing in the off-season to address it. Shakir needs to be utilized more. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenboy81 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Why not run on 3rd and 2 when you know your already going for it When was the last time you heard buffalo has the opponents defense on their toes? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, Einstein said: You didn’t like the idea of sending every single receiving option into the endzone when you only need two yards? Yeah, me neither. Dorsey turned 4th and 2 into 4th and Goal. RB was wide open to the left coming out of backfield for the easy conversion. Josh played it like it was 4th and goal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Einstein said: It was there regardless. Allen threw it late. He should be throwing it right now: I agree. Have to look at the All-22 - can't see how close the defender is in that broadcast view. Regardless though - the design of the play was not the issue - there was a play to be had there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) It's really hard to argue with McD's decisions to go for it on 4th down. Almost always the correct ones. We can not like the result or the playcall, but the decision itself is hard to argue with. Edited November 14, 2022 by Big Turk 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said: Almost every coach would go for it there these days due to the analytics supporting it. If down by 10, yes. Not up by 10. It was nothing short of asinine to go for it. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 9 minutes ago, Gugny said: And a proper HC would have chosen to go up by 13 points instead of letting the OC have the chance to f*ck it up. Going for it was the complete right call. Go up 3 scores instead of two. 2 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: RB was wide open to the left coming out of backfield for the easy conversion. Josh played it like it was 4th and goal. The bigger question was why was that running back Duke Johnson and not Hines or Cook, the 2 RBs the Bills aquired to be in the passing game. In fact Duke was in for all 3 of those short yardage plays at the goal line, even though they were all passing plays. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: RB was wide open to the left coming out of backfield for the easy conversion. Josh played it like it was 4th and goal. That was Duke Johnson and he had a defender on him and closing fast. It would have probably been a bang-bang play at the first down marker, or Duke would have had to make him miss. He may have even been hit so hard that he doesn’t catch the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astb41 Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 This is the problem I have once we get to the 25 yard line and in. And it was the same on the overtime INT. Just because josh can throw to the end zone from there and has thrown TDs from that distance doesn’t mean you play call as if you HAVE to get a TD on a single play! Continue getting first downs and hey genius idea - get closer and maybe it’ll be easier and less feeling to force a bad throw. Even the pass to Knox on 1st down in overtime. Yes he could’ve caught it, but we were moving the ball perfectly fine in the last possession of the 4th and in OT. WHY NOT CONTINUE THAT DOWN TO THE 3 YARD LINE AND PUNCH IT IN?!?!?!?! Just because Josh CAN doesn’t mean you HAVE to. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 I probably would have gone for it on 4th and 2 also, but 2nd and 3rd down play calls were terrible. I used to get frustrated that, under Daboll, we would keep going for 1st downs instead of TDs in the red zone. But in that situation yesterday we absolutely should have run it 6 times from the 6, if needed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Big Turk said: It's really hard to argue with McD's decisions to go for it on 4th down. Almost always the correct ones. We can not like the result or the playcall, but the decision itself is hard to argue with. Context matters though. I am usually pro-go-for-it. But in the context of the situation, where you have a QB struggling, and you have a chance to go up 2 touchdowns, I think you take the field goal considering the context of this particular situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Just now, Einstein said: Context matters though. I am usually pro-go-for-it. But in the context of the situation, where you have a QB struggling, and you have a chance to go up 2 touchdowns, I think you take the field goal considering the context of this particular situation. He wasn't struggling at that point...he was playing lights out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Gugny said: If down by 10, yes. Not up by 10. It was nothing short of asinine to go for it. Disagree. It's the choice between a 2 score or 3 score game and you only need 2 yards to sustain that drive. It was the right decision - you have a freakishly mobile battering ram of a QB who is considered a top 5 player in the league - it was just a mix of bad playcalling and terrible execution. Edited November 14, 2022 by TheBrownBear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan in MD Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) I have less of a problem with the 4th and 2 play call and am much more frustrated with not running it on 2nd and two and 3rd and two. If an offense can't get two yards running the ball on three consecutive plays, that's a problem. Edited November 14, 2022 by Bills Fan in MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 Just now, TheBrownBear said: Disagree. Analytics tell you to go for it there. It's the choice between a 2 score or 3 score game and you only need 2 yards to sustain that drive. It was the right decision - you have a freakishly mobile battering ram of a QB who is considered a top 5 player in the league - it was just a mix of bad playcalling and terrible execution. Going up two touchdowns with 10 minutes left in the game would have been the right thing to do. My mind will never change about it. It's okay that we disagree. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Big Turk said: He wasn't struggling at that point...he was playing lights out. Allen had missed 3 of his past 5 throws and taken a sack and one of the throws was super high and Diggs made an insane catch, before that 4th down play. The offense had scored 3 points in the last 15 minutes of game time. He was struggling. So was the offense. . Edited November 14, 2022 by Einstein 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden*Wheels Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said: I probably would have gone for it on 4th and 2 also, but 2nd and 3rd down play calls were terrible. I used to get frustrated that, under Daboll, we would keep going for 1st downs instead of TDs in the red zone. But in that situation yesterday we absolutely should have run it 6 times from the 6, if needed. 2 minutes ago, Bills Fan in MD said: I have less of a problem with the 4th and 2 play call and am much more frustrated with not running it on 2nd and 2 and 3rd and two. If an offense can't get two yards running the ball on three consecutive plays, that's a problem. What both these guys said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 They should have ran on 2nd down. I have no issues with the 3rd down call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry jones Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Bills Fan in MD said: I have less of a problem with the 4th and 2 play call and am much more frustrated with not running it on 2nd and 2 and 3rd and two. If an offense can't get two yards running the ball on three consecutive plays, that's a problem. Agreed... The play calling on 2nd & 2 & 3rd & 2 caused the whole issue. This has been a real problem with Dorsey in general this whole year. I know they want to limit the hits on Josh, but if they are that concerned about running the ball in those situations, then bring in a heavy package to lead our 240 lb QB. Get the damn first down then get pass happy after you pick up a 1st down. The same thing happened earlier in the game after Diggs caught an 18 yard pass on 1st & 20. Can't throw every freaking down especially with a QB who is struggling with his reads. They need to get more creative with their running game. Same crappy slow developing inside handoff or a quick pitch, and that's pretty much all they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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