Ryan "Rick" Bates Watch Thread

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

They looked super baggy on Keith Ellison

 

Tommy D didn't draft Ellison so that's probably why. Keith certainly wasn't built like, for instance, Mike Williams who wore those unis so well.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

31 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

He was pressured on 33.3 % of attempts (15th most)

 

 

 

That’s pretty much what I saw. Brown was the worst of the group. Bates the best. Smaller sample from Bates. 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Restructure other contracts you mean? I would release Matakevich. They have to have room first to match if it’s front loaded. We’ll see.

Do you have data on that? I felt the line was much better the last quarter of the season and in the playoffs. Spencer Brown seemed to be the weakest link at the end of the season.

Yeah….we can absolutely kick more money down the line if they feels he’s worth it

[Special K]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That’s pretty much what I saw. Brown was the worst of the group. Bates the best. Smaller sample from Bates. 

 

I bet a lot of the bad stats from Brown came in the horrible game he had playing Left Tackle.

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That’s pretty much what I saw. Brown was the worst of the group. Bates the best. Smaller sample from Bates. 

 

Brown was pretty inconsitent through the year, having some really good games and some really bad games. The two playoff games epitomized that when he had his best game in pass protection in the NE WC game and then followed it up with his worst game in pass protection in the KC Div game.

 

With that said. I do think he has a high ceiling and I believe Kromer can really elevate his game.

 

Bates only played in five games (including playoffs) where he had 50+ snaps. He didn't have more than 10 in any of the other 14 games. He played pretty well in 3 of the 5, but struggled some in the last game against the Jets and in the KC Div game, where he was as bad as Brown in pass protection. 

 

But I think he has the ability to step in and start and is a great backup to have. I hope they retain him. As we witnessed all last season, you need to have depth along the Oline.

[Rigotz]

32 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I do agree that they should have tendered him at the second round level, but that ties up funds that may have kept us from being able to sign a guy like Jamison Crowder. So it is fair that Beane took the risk to see how Bates is valued around the league. It's a risk, but not a massive one. There is always a way. 

A second round tender would have cost $3.98M. The right of first refusal tender costs $2.4M.

 

That is not a large amount and if they thought he’d get offers and expected him to be a starter or capable backup, $1.5M for assurance is not a lot.

 

Roll your eyes all you want. It was a bad move, likely driven by bad intel from the O-Line coach.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

I bet a lot of the bad stats from Brown came in the horrible game he had playing Left Tackle.

He was bad in pass protection on the right side too.  His 14% pressure rate is abnormally high. Feliciano was terrible in pass pro…and brown was almost 33% worse.  He was our worst pass protector last season.  Banking a lot on him improving.  Let’s hope the guy playing next to him can help him, rather than bring him down

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

I bet a lot of the bad stats from Brown came in the horrible game he had playing Left Tackle.

He was getting worked late in the season and in the playoffs at RT.

[Motor26]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He was getting worked late in the season and in the playoffs at RT.

Yes Brown wasn’t very good last year. I’d invest a 2nd round pick in another tackle who they can plug in at guard if Brown beats him out. I like Raimann and Tyler Smith. Both could end up going anywhere from late 1st to late 2nd.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Saffold is a LG, which makes Bates expendable.   If Bates signs with the Bears, the Bills will more than likely bring Daryl Williams back at a lower rate and keep the same line they had last year, albeit with Saffold in over Bates.

 

Not so fast.  In addition to missing 2 games, Saffold missed almost 20% of the snaps last season.  He needs at a minimum, quality backup.

Second, who is playing RG?  If it's not Bates, it might be Williams - but would Williams be a happy and motivated guy to sign for $2M or less?

[Einstein's Dog]

17 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

A second round tender would have cost $3.98M. The right of first refusal tender costs $2.4M.

 

That is not a large amount and if they thought he’d get offers and expected him to be a starter or capable backup, $1.5M for assurance is not a lot.

 

Roll your eyes all you want. It was a bad move, likely driven by bad intel from the O-Line coach.

How can you possibly say it was a bad deal without knowing the contract he is getting?  Ridiculous.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, popcornpam said:

Josh should call Beane and tell him to match it! He knows how good he is! Just look at last year‘s games when he came in. I worry about the team‘s chemistry a lot of new pieces this year. 

 

I'd like to respectfully suggest that Josh should recognize that it's not his area of expertise to evaluate OL play - both on the Bills and around the league - or to value the contracts due players.

[MrEpsYtown]

21 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

A second round tender would have cost $3.98M. The right of first refusal tender costs $2.4M.

 

That is not a large amount and if they thought he’d get offers and expected him to be a starter or capable backup, $1.5M for assurance is not a lot.

 

Roll your eyes all you want. It was a bad move, likely driven by bad intel from the O-Line coach.

 

I don't disagree. What I am saying is that Crowder signed for a little under two million. They second round tender ties up funds throughout free agency and could have kept them from making a move like Crowder. I agree that it's peanuts, but that was likely the thinking. 

[Motor26]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'd like to respectfully suggest that Josh should recognize that it's not his area of expertise to evaluate OL play - both on the Bills and around the league - or to value the contracts due players.

I agree with the 2nd part about the contacts, but I think Josh would even evaluate that the OL play in front of him was not very good in general, after all, he was the one running from their missed blocks all the time. 

[ArtVandalay]

6 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I don't disagree. What I am saying is that Crowder signed for a little under two million. They second round tender ties up funds throughout free agency and could have kept them from making a move like Crowder. I agree that it's peanuts, but that was likely the thinking. 

Save $3 MM by cutting Matakevich.

[popcornpam]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'd like to respectfully suggest that Josh should recognize that it's not his area of expertise to evaluate OL play - both on the Bills and around the league - or to value the contracts due players.

I do remember that Josh wanted a say on who his new offensive coordinator would be. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

So if he goes to the Bears, that 2.5M goes back to our available cap, correct?  So we'd be around +8M?

 

Correct that the $2.43M goes back on our available cap, less the salary of a guy who would move back into the top 51 (about $0.87M)

So about $1.56 goes  back on

 

Beane wishes he had $8M of cap!  Currently Spotrac shows us as having $2.56M , with two signed players not yet "on the books" (Barkley and Shaq Lawson).

When they are "on the books", they will bump two guys out of the top 51, providing an extra $1.72M of cap

[mikemac2001]

Do we know the offer details for bates?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, popcornpam said:

I do remember that Josh wanted a say on who his new offensive coordinator would be. 

 

Respectfully, it's a different place to lobby for a guy he has been working with and point out the expertise and interactions he would bring to the table as OC  vs. to enter the world of OL scouting and OL player contract ROI by calling up Beane and telling him to match a specific contract for a specific OLman that has general cap implications for other moves Beane would make for the team.

 

If you can't see the difference, don't know what to say.

 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Correct that the $2.43M goes back on our available cap, less the salary of a guy who would move back into the top 51 (about $0.87M)

So about $1.56 goes  back on

 

Beane wishes he had $8M of cap!  Currently Spotrac shows us as having $2.56M , with two signed players not yet "on the books" (Barkley and Shaq Lawson).

When they are "on the books", they will bump two guys out of the top 51, providing an extra $1.72M of cap

That’s one reason they get 5 days. He can create the space of he wants to. I bet he won’t though.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

I agree with the 2nd part about the contacts, but I think Josh would even evaluate that the OL play in front of him was not very good in general, after all, he was the one running from their missed blocks all the time. 

 

Oh, absolutely!  But it's a long step from saying "you know, if I had an extra .25 seconds to throw on these plays, it would allow me to find other options..." vs "SIGN THIS GUY FOR THIS CONTRACT!"

2 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

Do we know the offer details for bates?

 

I don't and have not seen that info, no.

 

Whether it's out there and we've missed it, don't know.

[Turbo44]

I can't believe people are getting upset over possibly losing Bates.  He's a nice player but really JAG

[YoloinOhio]

10 minutes ago, popcornpam said:

I do remember that Josh wanted a say on who his new offensive coordinator would be. 

I hate to be all about business as I’m sure Rick is a nice guy and all but I doubt Josh has a strong opinion on this, and would leave it to Kromer. Right now Bates is simply depth OL, he would compete for RG in camp. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

I can't believe people are getting upset over possibly losing Bates.  He's a nice player but really JAG

 

There are two things:

1) based on the end of the season, he appears to be a better JAG than 3 other guys we had playing in front of Josh last season

2) fans are still traumatized by the Wyatt Teller trade

3) because of the above, Ford being a 2nd round bust, and some other moves, we lack faith in the ability of this FO to evaluate OL talent

 

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I hate to be all about business as I’m sure Rick is a nice guy and all but I doubt Josh has a strong opinion on this, and would leave it to Kromer. Right now Bates is simply depth OL, he would compete for RG in camp. 

 

But with whom is the question?

 

I'm pretty sure Josh didn't like seeing Harrison Phillips, Beasley, and Feliciano go out the door.  By report, they may have been 3 of his closest friends on the team.  But all the players have to recognize it's a business.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

How do you not tender him at a 2nd round level?

 

Add this to the list of horrific talent evaluations on the O-Line while Bobby Johnson was coach.

 

Beane was clearly getting bad info because the market LOVES Bates.

 

Beane knew there would be a market for Bates.  And the 2nd round tender was just $1.5M more.  Again I think the Bills were prepared to let him go because they knew were getting an upgrade in Saffold and Bates hasn't proven himself at RG (and has he really proven himself at LG?).

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

I can't believe people are getting upset over possibly losing Bates.  He's a nice player but really JAG

People are upset because we don’t know who the replacement  will be.  We can say “you can find good guards in rd 2 or 3.  We’ll just draft one”.  But that doesn’t mean that player won’t suck.  Look how 2nd rd pick Cody ford turned out. Dude couldn’t play the position we drafted him for and was equally as bad at his secondary position.  
 
some fans value having a good offensive line to protect our franchise QB.  

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

But with whom is the question?

 

I think Daryl Williams has a strong chance to return.  Is he meeting with any teams?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I think Daryl Williams has a strong chance to return.  Is he meeting with any teams?

 

Who knows?  There are reports linking him to the Giants, but hard to tell if they're press speculation based on coach associations, or substantial

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

I'd take Williams back as the RG on a team friendly contract. He was ok there.

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They also seem to value their defensive line rotational depth over starting quality blockers for the best player on the team…. 

Or maybe they have a plan….we just don’t know what it may be.  

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There are two things:

1) based on the end of the season, he appears to be a better JAG than 3 other guys we had playing in front of Josh last season

2) fans are still traumatized by the Wyatt Teller trade

3) because of the above, Ford being a 2nd round bust, and some other moves, we lack faith in the ability of this FO to evaluate OL talent

 

 

But with whom is the question?

 

I'm pretty sure Josh didn't like seeing Harrison Phillips, Beasley, and Feliciano go out the door.  By report, they may have been 3 of his closest friends on the team.  But all the players have to recognize it's a business.

He never saw the field until the Bills were out of options last year due to injury so I doubt he will be handed the starting RG job, but as we still need to add upwards of I think 30 or so players and Beane loves his off-season ritual of hoarding OLinemen I expect at least one will be a OG. And there is Ford who will be in the mix to compete there at least early on. 

[Pags24]

We need to keep Bates.  I'm amazed by the amount of people on here doubting him, think we can just draft a guy and plug a rookie in and be fine.  It's extremely hard to hit a home run in the draft.  Bates is a solid starter at guard or C right now and I believe has the ability to get better.  The fact that he didn't start sooner is not his fault, that's on the coaches.  The way he performed last year showed that he should've been starting at G a lot sooner than he did.  Hope Beaner has a plan to retain him.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There are two things:

1) based on the end of the season, he appears to be a better JAG than 3 other guys we had playing in front of Josh last season

2) fans are still traumatized by the Wyatt Teller trade

3) because of the above, Ford being a 2nd round bust, and some other moves, we lack faith in the ability of this FO to evaluate OL talent

 

Crass to follow up my own post but I will.

 

One of the things that I think fans don't appreciate is the grind of the 18 week season and how that plays into player performance.

 

As the season wears on, every single OLman is nursing dings and dents.  When Spencer Brown returns from "back injury" it doesn't mean his back injury is healed, it just means it's healed enough that he can get shot up with Toradol and function.  Calf strains, knee sprains, ankles.... a lot of small injuries never make the injury report.  One article I read reported that by mid-season, most of the OL is getting their knees drained and injected  - weekly.  [I hope that's an exaggeration, but...]

 

I would be surprised if there isn't a similar dynamic on the DL

 

The point is, when we see a guy who has not played come in to start Week 16, playing alongside and across from guys who have been slogging in the trenches for 15 weeks, that doesn't necessarily reflect the performance we'd see if he'd been slogging all season.  Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

 

 

[Logic]

 

[GolfandBills]

2 minutes ago, Pags24 said:

We need to keep Bates.  I'm amazed by the amount of people on here doubting him, think we can just draft a guy and plug a rookie in and be fine.  It's extremely hard to hit a home run in the draft.  Bates is a solid starter at guard or C right now and I believe has the ability to get better.  The fact that he didn't start sooner is not his fault, that's on the coaches.  The way he performed last year showed that he should've been starting at G a lot sooner than he did.  Hope Beaner has a plan to retain him.  

He was a must keep until the contract offer from Bears now nobody cares anymore 

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

 

Hernandez is the guy I like. Totally mismanaged in NY. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They also seem to value their defensive line rotational depth over starting quality blockers for the best player on the team…. 

 

Can you name 5 things that you think the Bills FO does well or right?

 

Because you seem to find nothing but constant criticism.  And yet here we are, playoffs for the last 3 seasons and 4 out of 5 seasons, contending at the top of the AFC, so those "well or right" aspects must exist.

[Tanoros]

25 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

I can't believe people are getting upset over possibly losing Bates.  He's a nice player but really JAG

It creates a hole and there are not many good vet options out there. Additionally, there is no guarantees with a rookie. 

[MrEpsYtown]

Bates has connections in Chicago: 

 

"It isn’t a huge surprise Ryan Bates chose Chicago. They have plenty of cap space to meet his price, but they also offer connections. The lineman played under Joe Moorhead in college at Penn State. Moorhead is the mentor of new Bears offensive coordinator Luke Getsy. If that weren’t enough, Ian Cunningham is their assistant GM. Cunningham was part of the Philadelphia Eagles front office that signed Bates as an undrafted free agent back in 2019.

Such familiarity was no doubt appealing for the young guard. The question now is what the Bills plan to do. They have five days to decide whether they match the Bears’ offer. Doing so will allow them to retain Bates. Current estimates say the team has somewhere between $2.5-4 million in cap space. So if the Bears wanted to dissuade them from matching, they’d likely offer a deal at $4 million per year or more."

 

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/ryan-bates-takes-step-closer-to-joining-chicago-bears/

[billsfan1959]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

They also seem to value defensive line rotational depth over starting quality blockers for the best player on the team…. 

 

I wonder if Allen's incredible ability to mask serious deficiencies along the Oline has distorted the lens through which this FO, and many fans, look at the Oline? Even when they were playing "well" down the stretch, there were real breakdowns in protection, and any player, not names Josh Allen, could rarely find holes to run through.

 

There were two drives in the KC Div game where this team faced 3rd and 2. Both times they chose to have Allen hand the ball off. The two handoffs netted zero yards and a punt on 4th down. Sure would have been nice to have a strong Oline then, or when Feliciano got blown up at the end of the Titans game on 4th and 1, or when...oh well, no need to go down the list....